UKRIPMT June 2016: #Boxit

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How will you be voting in the UKEU Referendum? This poll is closed.
Remain - Keep Britane Strong!	328	15.40%
Leave - Take Are Sovreignity Back!	115	5.40%
Remain - But only because Brexit are crazy	506	23.76%
Leave - But only because the EU is terrible	157	7.37%
Spoiled Ballot - This whole thing is an awful idea	61	2.86%
I'm not going to vote	19	0.89%
I'm not allowed to vote	411	19.30%
Pissflaps	533	25.02%
Total:	2130 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

LeoMarr posted:

Apparently Britain First is going to be ensuring there isn't Voter fraud on The day we retake our country.

Is that the "blow the head of the column left of you" marching pattern?

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:18

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 20:41

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

OwlFancier posted:

Is that the "blow the head of the column left of you" marching pattern?

somehow this gives a much raunchier mental image than the actual image provides

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:21

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

TinTower posted:

So, earlier in the week, Britain First held a training camp in Snowdonia, in which attendees were taught in how to use knives and how to improvise weapons.

Jo Cox was attacked using knives and an improvised firearm.

I'm not disputing that Britain First are awful fascist shits, but this article doesn't say what you claim it says.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:21

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

OwlFancier posted:

Is that the "blow the head of the column left of you" marching pattern?

This is a pattern I strongly support fascists adopting. Shame about those in the rightmost column, though.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:22

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

For want of an f, the battle turned into a massive orgy.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:22

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

First they came

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:24

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

LeoMarr posted:

Apparently Britain First is going to be ensuring there isn't Voter fraud on The day we retake our country.

Someone took the V for Vendetta film's antagonists a little too positively.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:27

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Who are they anyway and where did they get those nice German guns?

I assume they aren't actually fash because they look much too smart for modern fash.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:28

Maoist Pussy: Feb 12, 2014; by Lowtax

Crimson with black leather is a little too comic-book for me. I would have used aged horsehide brown leather with bronze fittings and carmine for the shirts. Masculine, but elegant and classical, not so nervy and try-hard.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:33

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

My fascist army is going to all dress like dick tracy.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:35

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

OwlFancier posted:

My fascist army is going to all dress like dick tracy.

Army of Piss Yellow?

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:43

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

It's a honeypot for ancaps.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:47

Goatman Sacks: Apr 4, 2011; by FactsAreUseless

So according to the right here in America this has already been brushed away as "Mentally ill man fights other person, MP tragically gets caught in crossfire". I have no idea where to get reliable information from British sources - is there any validity to that, or is it up there with "Mathew Shepard was killed because he was a drug dealer"?

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:55

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Goatman Sacks posted:

So according to the right here in America this has already been brushed away as "Mentally ill man fights other person, MP tragically gets caught in crossfire". I have no idea where to get reliable information from British sources - is there any validity to that, or is it up there with "Mathew Shepard was killed because he was a drug dealer"?

Not heard anything like this, though haven't looked too much at the details myself. Still, how the hell do you accidentally stab a person to death

# ? Jun 17, 2016 02:59

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

The pieced-together story is:

long-time right-wing man stabs local MP

70-something year old man tries to intervene, gets cut too

the murderer pulls out a gun and fires, with several shots being into the head of the MP at point blank range

Anything else is speculation and even what I've written is "the best we can tell"

# ? Jun 17, 2016 03:00

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

IceAgeComing posted:

this video sums up everything you need to know about virtue signalling

Labour held Tooting; doubled their majority on a reduced turnout. 7.9% swing from the Tories to Labour; Labour was the only party to gain in vote share and the Greens had their vote halved and lost their deposit which they didn't do last year. I don't know whether a by-election held a week before an EU referendum on the day when an MP was assassinated for the first time in 25 years can tell you much though...

This is very bad for Corbyn

# ? Jun 17, 2016 03:01

Goatman Sacks: Apr 4, 2011; by FactsAreUseless

also, "virtue signaling" means "people only do nice things with ulterior motives, because obviously everyone else is much of a piece of poo poo as I am"

# ? Jun 17, 2016 03:08

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

correct

# ? Jun 17, 2016 03:10

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Also if it was in west yorkshire I would strongly suspect she would have been out campaigning today. So it's likely she would be pretty identifiable as an MP.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 03:11

Shakespearean Beef: Jul 12, 2008; Ask me all about how I proudly marched alongside literal NEO-NAZIS to protest against the GOVERNMENT taking away our FREEDOMS because of nothing mote that the common FLU!!! I'm holding aloft the TORCH of FREEDOM!!

OwlFancier posted:

Also if it was in west yorkshire I would strongly suspect she would have been out campaigning today. So it's likely she would be pretty identifiable as an MP.

She was holding a surgery, where you meet constituents on a one-on-one basis.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 03:18

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

My own MP never did them. From now on he'll use this tragedy as an excuse when really it's because he's a racist gently caress in a diverse town.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 03:20

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

I hope the local labour party selects the most pro-multicultural person they can find for the by-election, gently caress this guy

# ? Jun 17, 2016 03:21

LGD: Sep 25, 2004

Goatman Sacks posted:

also, "virtue signaling" means "people only do nice things with ulterior motives, because obviously everyone else is much of a piece of poo poo as I am"

Honestly my first exposure to the term/concept was through a liberal Christian examination of right-wing Christian tribal behaviors. It's a current buzz word but it's fairly ideological neutral- i.e. crazy right wingers signal "virtue" just as hard as anyone, and its mostly about identifying behaviors that people adopt to signal to their preferred in-group that they're a member of the tribe in good standing. It's not always a bad thing (who doesn't want to be virtuous?), and it's obviously always questionable because truly knowing anyone else's motivations is impossible, but it's probably useful for thinking about why people engage in some forms of questionable behavior, especially among communities that put an extremely high value on ideological purity and commitment. This is especially true in online contexts as a way to categorize and explain a certain kind of negative slacktivism- i.e. the internet lends itself really well to public one-line shitposts that contain no content except letting people know how much you think they suck, and it spawns insular communities where inclusion/exclusion is based heavily on being the right sort of person. Tweeting a cool meme at someone implying their wife is sleeping with other men is virtue signalling- you're demonstrating your hatred of a tribal enemy, by implication asserting your status as an alpha, and signaling that you understand and share the culture and values of the alt-right. You're also probably trying to hurt them in some small way, but in most cases it's likely secondary to the demonstration of tribal solidarity.

It's definitely an assertion about the ulterior motives of the people you're discussing though, and something of an allegation of bad faith (though one that ideally acknowledges their essential humanity). I generally use it because I prefer to believe people aren't quite as horrible/insensitive as they frequently come across in ideological discussions online, something that is generally borne out in more nuanced conversations with individuals. It's probably not the best term to use at the moment though, since it does seem to be getting re-purposed to suggest men are only feminists because they think it'll get them mad pussy and dismiss any arguments out of hand, etc. I don't see it as something you should think about in terms of being a counterargument to individual people like "he only said X because he's virtue signaling", but it is a reasonable theory to explain questions like "why are all these people who believe Y spamming that person's twitter account?" or "why are all of these people who previously had mixed and reasonable opinions on subject Z suddenly loudly proclaiming some outlandish thing as a moral imperative?"

LGD fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Jun 17, 2016

# ? Jun 17, 2016 03:35

I Killed GBS: Jun 2, 2011; by Lowtax

LGD posted:

Honestly my first exposure to the term/concept was through a liberal Christian examination of right-wing Christian tribal behaviors. It's a current buzz word but it's fairly ideological neutral- i.e. crazy right wingers signal "virtue" just as hard as anyone, and its mostly about identifying behaviors that people adopt to signal to their preferred in-group that they're a member of the tribe in good standing. It's not always a bad thing (who doesn't want to be virtuous?), and it's obviously always questionable because truly knowing anyone else's motivations is impossible, but it's probably useful for thinking about why people engage in some forms of questionable behavior, especially among communities that put an extremely high value on ideological purity and commitment. This is especially true in online contexts as a way to categorize and explain a certain kind of negative slacktivism- i.e. the internet lends itself really well to public one-line shitposts that contain no content except letting people know how much you think they suck, and it spawns insular communities where inclusion/exclusion is based heavily on being the right sort of person. Tweeting a cool meme at someone implying their wife is sleeping with other men is virtue signalling- you're demonstrating your hatred of a tribal enemy, by implication asserting your status as an alpha, and signaling that you understand and share the culture and values of the alt-right. You're also probably trying to hurt them in some small way, but in most cases it's likely secondary to the demonstration of tribal solidarity.

It's definitely an assertion about the ulterior motives of the people you're discussing though, and something of an allegation of bad faith (though one that ideally acknowledges their essential humanity). I generally use it because I prefer to believe people aren't quite as horrible/insensitive as they frequently come across in ideological discussions online, something that is generally borne out in more nuanced conversations with individuals. It's probably not the best term to use at the moment though, since it does seem to be getting re-purposed to suggest men are only feminists because they think it'll get them mad pussy and dismiss any arguments out of hand, etc. I don't see it as something you should think about in terms of being a counterargument to individual people like "he only said X because he's virtue signaling", but it is a reasonable theory to explain questions like "why are all these people who believe Y spamming that person's twitter account?" or "why are all of these people who previously had mixed and reasonable opinions on subject Z suddenly loudly proclaiming some outlandish thing as a moral imperative?"

Look I hate smug Euros as much as you but could you please stop making GBS threads up their thread

# ? Jun 17, 2016 04:07

LGD: Sep 25, 2004

Small Frozen Thing posted:

Look I hate smug Euros as much as you but could you please stop making GBS threads up their thread

k

though we'll all soon need to become better friends, what with the new bilateral trade deals and all

# ? Jun 17, 2016 04:10

Maoist Pussy: Feb 12, 2014; by Lowtax

Goatman Sacks posted:

also, "virtue signaling" means "people only do nice things with ulterior motives, because obviously everyone else is much of a piece of poo poo as I am"

No, because then you would be talking about charity and soup kitchens and poo poo like that. Virtue signalling is signalling, not doing.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 04:16

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Tesseraction posted:

My own MP never did them. From now on he'll use this tragedy as an excuse when really it's because he's a racist gently caress in a diverse town.

I didn't even know until today that holding surgeries was optional.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 04:38

big scary monsters: Sep 2, 2011; -~Ｓｋｕｌｌｗａｖｅ~-

Extreme0 posted:

Well would you rather have me as a heartless bastard

I do care for this particular situation though for multiple reasons but maybe I just lack empathy for people I don't know personally. My frustration turned hatred has preety much just made me feel a lack of care to whatever happens to people that frustrate me. Still it is a tragedy all the same and I feel like I do have enough sympathy to at least offer my condolences but that won't change much in the end.

Yeah I'm sorry that was actually not called for on my part, I can only offer as excuse that I'm super jetlagged and sleep deprived and not at my best. I think I understand what you mean even if I wouldn't put it quite like you did in your other post. With so much lovely stuff happening all the time it is difficult to feel strongly for each and every case of a bad thing affecting a person you don't know personally.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 04:54

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

Shakespearean Beef posted:

She was holding a surgery, where you meet constituents on a one-on-one basis.

I heard the Tories gutted the NHS but drat.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 06:23

StoneOfShame: Jul 28, 2013; This is the best kitchen ever.

Tesseraction posted:

The pieced-together story is:

long-time right-wing man stabs local MP

70-something year old man tries to intervene, gets cut too

the murderer pulls out a gun and fires, with several shots being into the head of the MP at point blank range

Anything else is speculation and even what I've written is "the best we can tell"

The man is probably mentally ill as well like the people who killed Lee Rigby probably were, in this case it will be focused on instead of the extreme ideologies he followed in like with them when it was the opposite because you know racism.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 06:58

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

OwlFancier posted:

Poundland do this "cereal" called Mateys which is basically 100% sugar. You'd like it.

Late but when someone asked me if I wanted to go to poundland for the first time it was taken in a much different light

# ? Jun 17, 2016 07:13

Berious: Nov 13, 2005

Read this really good opinion piece in the spectator of all places. Articulates a lot of what I've been thinking about the campaign and how leave have behaved: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/a-day-of-infamy/

Berious fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Jun 17, 2016

# ? Jun 17, 2016 08:42

Pesmerga: Aug 1, 2005; So nice to eat you

Twitter is a cesspool of 'how dare the left make this political :argh:

' this morning.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 08:44

Saint Isaias Boner: Jan 17, 2007; hi how are you ♥

IceAgeComing posted:

this video sums up everything you need to know about virtue signalling

Labour held Tooting; doubled their majority on a reduced turnout. 7.9% swing from the Tories to Labour; Labour was the only party to gain in vote share and the Greens had their vote halved and lost their deposit which they didn't do last year. I don't know whether a by-election held a week before an EU referendum on the day when an MP was assassinated for the first time in 25 years can tell you much though...

corbyn will have to step down after this shameful result

# ? Jun 17, 2016 08:47

Saint Isaias Boner: Jan 17, 2007; hi how are you ♥

Pesmerga posted:

Twitter is a cesspool of 'how dare the left make this political ' this morning.

hmm yes how could anyone make an assassination of a sitting politician in the middle of a referendum political

E: it was shameful how everyone politicized archduke ferdinand's assassination, gavrilo princip was clearly mentally ill (because what sort of healthy person assassinates an archduke!) and was probably a lone wolf

# ? Jun 17, 2016 08:48

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

Twitter is a cesspool

# ? Jun 17, 2016 08:50

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

Saint Isaias Boner posted:

hmm yes how could anyone make an assassination of a sitting politician in the middle of a referendum political

E: it was shameful how everyone politicized archduke ferdinand's assassination, gavrilo princip was clearly mentally ill (because what sort of healthy person assassinates an archduke!) and was probably a lone wolf

Because the murderer was a swivel eyed nutter and as we all know mental illness is the final and definitive reason in a case like this. The mentally ill are dangerous and unpredictable, like rabid dogs or bears. Nobody needs any more reason than that.

I am the Sun/daily mail and you may claim your £5

# ? Jun 17, 2016 08:55

Pesmerga: Aug 1, 2005; So nice to eat you

This is also a pretty good article on what's happening here.

The New York Times posted:

From Great Britain to Little England

London � IT was Queen Elizabeth�s official 90th birthday celebration last Sunday, and tables for 10,000 guests were set along the Mall in central London. Steadily the rain fell, dripping out of the tubas of the bands and softening the sandwiches, but Her Majesty�s subjects munched on with stoic British spirit, standing up to cheer as she passed.

In her fuchsia coat and matching hat, she waved and grinned as if nothing had changed and never would. But next week, a very great change may come.

On Thursday, Britons will vote in a referendum on whether their country should stay in the European Union or leave it. If a majority opts for �Brexit,� a long earthquake begins. It will topple the old facade of Britishness. It will disrupt, perhaps fatally, the foundations of European unity. The sense of a fateful moment suddenly peaked today, when Jo Cox, a young Labour member of Parliament, was shot to death outside her Yorkshire offices by a man said to have yelled, �Britain first!� All campaigning was suspended for the day.

Royal ceremonies offer a brief, reassuring illusion of continuity, but at the back of many minds on the Mall was this thought: Could we be saying goodbye not just to this beloved old lady, but to a certain idea of nationhood? An outward-looking, world-involved Great Britain may soon shrink into a Little England.

As the queen�s guests finished their tea in sight of the familiar gray mass of Buckingham Palace, opinion polls showed the Brexit vote surging. The early lead for the Remain campaign has melted away. In less than a week, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland could be tearing up its European treaties and backing into Atlantic isolation.

The slogan �Take back control!� has been showing up everywhere in the last two weeks. It�s about sovereignty: the idea that unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, not the Westminster Parliament, make the laws of England. Above all, it means taking control of the country�s frontiers. This would break decisively with a sacred principle of the European Union: the free movement of people, which, for more than 20 years under the Schengen Agreement (my note: - free movement of people and Schengen are technically two different legal concepts), has allowed Europeans to travel among member states without passport checks, and live and work in those countries with no visa requirements.

With fateful timing, the latest official figures for net migration to Britain, published at the end of May, showed the second-highest annual number on record, 333,000 in 2015; European Union nations accounted for more than half of that figure. This was far higher than government targets, and played directly into the Leave campaign�s refrain about �uncontrolled immigration.�

Is it a baseless panic? Many European countries tolerate far higher levels of immigration. Scotland, with a new community of some 55,000 Poles, actively encourages it. In England, support for Brexit and for the xenophobic U.K. Independence Party is often in inverse proportion to the scale of the problem: The fewer immigrants there are in a town, the louder the outcry against foreigners. In contrast, polling in inner London, where about four out of 10 inhabitants are now foreign-born, shows a clear preference for staying in Europe.

The English, normally skeptical about politics, have grown gullible. Both sides pelt the voters with forecasts of doom should the other side win. None are reliable, and the Leave figures have been especially deceitful. Remainers predict an economic armageddon of lost growth, a devalued pound and withered City of London. The Leavers� Conservative leaders, assuming the mantle of a government in waiting, promise that �their� Britain could cover all the lost European subsidies and grants to farmers, poor regions, universities and schools. Evidence that they could find these additional billions is scant.

But there are deeper motives here than anxiety about the exchange rate or banks in London decamping to Frankfurt. Behind Brexit stalks the ghost of imperial exception, the feeling that Great Britain can never be just another nation to be outvoted by France or Slovakia. There�s still a providential feeling about Shakespeare�s �sceptred isle� as �this fortress built by Nature.� Or as an old Royal Marines veteran said to me, �God dug the bloody Channel for us, so why do we keep trying to fill it in?�

But in a Britain after Brexit, there will be internal border issues to worry about. London politicians look nervously north toward Scotland. Home to less than 10 percent of Britain�s population, Scotland has enjoyed a high degree of self-government since 1999. The pro-independence Scottish National Party dominates the country�s politics, consolidating its grip after losing a close-fought independence referendum in 2014.

Most Scots insist that they want to stay in the European Union. So what happens if a British majority says Leave and Scotland is dragged out of Europe against its will?

Many nationalists will demand an immediate new independence referendum. But Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland�s shrewd and popular first minister, will want to wait until polls show a settled majority of Scottish voters in favor of leaving the British state. It�s Ms. Sturgeon�s gamble that an economic downturn following Brexit, combined with the loss of European Union guarantees for workers� rights and European subsidies for Scotland�s farmers and infrastructure projects, will deliver that support soon enough.

If Ms. Sturgeon�s strategy works out, Brexit could hasten the breakup of Britain. The constitutional fallout extends to Northern Ireland. A Leave vote would turn the open border between Northern Ireland and the Republic into a guarded frontier with Europe, since Ireland would remain a member in the union. This would undermine a major provision of the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, the peace deal that ended three decades of the Troubles.

Her Britannic Majesty would then be left with a simmering Ulster, the potential for resurgent nationalism in Wales, and a dominant population of 54 million English people. There is a logic to that, for Brexit is overwhelmingly an English, not a British, idea.

English nationalism, though inchoate, is spreading. For older generations, it was cloaked in British patriotism. But now, having watched the Scots and the Welsh win their own parliaments, England � with no less than 84 percent of Britain�s population � feels aggrieved and unrepresented. And so the English have gone in search of their own identity politics, finding common cause with the general impatience with old political elites that is flaming up all over Europe.

For now, their angry sense of powerlessness is aimed at the European Union. But the truth is that it�s from bloated, privileged London, not Brussels, that the English need to take back control. The Brexit campaign orators, themselves members of that metropolitan elite, have carefully diverted English fury into empty foreigner-baiting. In France this month, English soccer hooligans� chant was �We�re all voting Out!� as they beat up fans from other nations.

A rump Britain that quits the European Union would not be the same country back in its old familiar place. It would be a new, strange country in an unfamiliar place.

For foreigners, it would be less easygoing, more suspicious and more bureaucratic for work and travel. For its own citizens, it would become a less regulated, more unequal society. For the young, as European color drained away, it could come to seem a dim and stifling place that anyone with imagination would want to escape.

A Leave victory in the referendum is expected to topple Prime Minister David Cameron, and replace him with a radically right-wing Conservative team, which the impetuous former mayor of London, Boris Johnson, is eager to lead. The new government would immediately have to face the problems of disengaging from Europe, and possibly from Scotland. Negotiating new treaties with European trading partners would take many years. And Germany is warning that Britain will no longer have access to the European Union�s single market.

That would knock the bottom out of the Leave campaign�s central promise: that Britain could have its cake and eat it, too � retaining full access to 500 million European customers while clamping controls on immigration from the union. Cynics predict that Britain will spend five years trying to get out, and the next five trying to get back in.

Then come the constitutional nightmares. Most lawmakers in Britain�s Parliament are pro-Europe. Can they be forced to vote for legislation to leave the union? What happens if the government loses an election and a pro-European administration � say, a Labour-led coalition � takes power?

And who is supreme here, anyway? The British people, who will have expressed their will in a binding referendum? Or Parliament, which by convention is sovereign and cannot be overruled? In a kingdom with no written constitution, nobody knows the answer.

It is certain that Brexit would do gross damage to both Europe and America. For the United States, it would mean the failure of many years of diplomacy. Britain would become at once less useful as an ally and less predictable. Washington would turn increasingly from London to Berlin.

For Europe, Britain�s departure would be like a first brick pulled from a flimsy wall. The union is already fragile. Its mismanagement of the eurozone debt crisis after the 2008 crash was followed by its mismanagement of the refugee crisis. No wonder a recent Pew Research Center poll showed plummeting approval ratings for the union in key European countries.

British withdrawal isn�t likely to be followed instantly by that of other member states. But nationalist governments like those in Poland and Hungary, and others besides, will be encouraged to defy European rules from trade regulations to human rights, until the whole structure disintegrates. Disputes once soothed by multinational bargaining in Strasbourg or Brussels may grow toxic.

And Europe, though often vexed by London�s halfheartedness, will miss the sheer negotiating skill of British diplomacy: its genius for avoiding confrontations and inventing compromises. As more countries strike mutinous attitudes, those skills have never been more needed.

�For 70 years, my Foreign Service has been Britain�s rear guard,� a British ambassador told me. �We have prevented its orderly retreat from world greatness turning into a rout.� But Brexit now seems to propose a final retreat across the English Channel to the white cliffs of Dover.

Isolation brings out the worst in Britain. And it never works. In the 1930s, a complacent Britain refused to help Spain fight fascism, appeased Hitler and Mussolini, and for too long turned away refugees fleeing persecution. As Czechoslovakia cried out for help, Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain dismissed �a quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing.� Will a British leader soon speak again about faraway Europe in the same tones?

When Britain did admit that it belonged to Europe, after all, it was at the 11th hour. In 1940, isolation ended in a fight for survival, and complacency gave way to five years of grim determination. During those war years, the Continent was devastated and its nation-states discredited.

Thanks to that harsh experience, the British after the war recognized their share of responsibility by supporting the vision of a united Europe. Must Britain learn that painful, costly lesson all over again?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/opinion/sunday/from-great-britain-to-little-england.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Saint Isaias Boner posted:

hmm yes how could anyone make an assassination of a sitting politician in the middle of a referendum political

E: it was shameful how everyone politicized archduke ferdinand's assassination, gavrilo princip was clearly mentally ill (because what sort of healthy person assassinates an archduke!) and was probably a lone wolf

I know, right? Apparently the official line is that she mournfully got involved in an altercation between two men that a tiny woman shouldn't have got involved in. THAT'S ALL IT WAS :byodood:

# ? Jun 17, 2016 08:55

GEORGE W BUSHI: Jul 1, 2012

IceAgeComing posted:

this video sums up everything you need to know about virtue signalling

Labour held Tooting; doubled their majority on a reduced turnout. 7.9% swing from the Tories to Labour; Labour was the only party to gain in vote share and the Greens had their vote halved and lost their deposit which they didn't do last year. I don't know whether a by-election held a week before an EU referendum on the day when an MP was assassinated for the first time in 25 years can tell you much though...

Especially taking into account that the people of Tooting may have been a little annoyed by the Tories implying their last MP was a religious fanatic.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 09:00

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 20:41

Pesmerga: Aug 1, 2005; So nice to eat you

Oberleutnant posted:

Because the murderer was a swivel eyed nutter and as we all know mental illness is the final and definitive reason in a case like this. The mentally ill are dangerous and unpredictable, like rabid dogs or bears. Nobody needs any more reason than that.

I am the Sun/daily mail and you may claim your £5

And mentally ill people have ideas exist in a vacuum that are not in any way influenced by any external stimuli.

Edit: - problem seems to be resolved now.

# ? Jun 17, 2016 09:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKRIPMT June 2016: #Boxit

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