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Deified Data posted:So how is a chaos player meant to be taking advantage of chaos corruption? It gives you a leadership boost and other stuff, and enemies take attrition. You spread it with agents, or by doing your thing on settlements down south (the runs spread corruption.)
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Jun 17, 2016 07:00
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Yukitsu posted:Post up replays or something, we can all commentate on things you can change, I think my biggest roster mistakes were spending money on the Master Engineer (he didn't do poo poo worthy of the battle) and likely the Gyrobombers, because for all their armor they got torn apart by (Savage?) Arrer Boyz of all things. Tactics-wise I totally failed to micro my ranged better after unleashing a few volleys and pulling them behind my line, but by that point the front lines clashed and I had no units on reserves because I wanted to match his line to prevent envelopment, and the boar cavalry had easy access to my uncovered rear. I also hadn't realized it, but Longbeards w/GW also lack charge defense against large, so the enemy trolls (who kept being routed and returned) and cavalry bowled them over like they were some filthy Empire umgis who can't hold in their liquor. The Black Orcs also managed to beat out the Longbeards w/GW, which was kind of sad, but I think that's because the enemy general used some +Melee buff on them while I failed to do so until after it had cooled off.
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Jun 17, 2016 07:01
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If your whole line is armor piercing, I'd replace the thunderers with quarrelers. Greatswords do jack poo poo to low armor targets and every ranged units besides dwarves have no armor, so using your quarrelers to destroy his ranged units will help win the dps war since they'll be dead pretty quick. Same with taking out cavalry That said, I'm too weak willed to do mp, so take someone else's advice if it's conflicting with mine  .Edit: also, engineers are great for boosting artillery, which you seem to not have?
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Jun 17, 2016 07:31
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I've officially stopped having fun in my VC campaign. Armies don't actually engage me, they just use march orders to dick around in my territory and snipe settlements if I stop following. Meanwhile their force is composed of 90% mounted ranged units that just kite my infantry around all day, and I win in the end but it takes 30 minutes to do so.
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Jun 17, 2016 07:48
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My Chaos campaign was a slog as well, could win almost any fight but had to spend a ton of turns sitting around recovering or recruiting from attrition losses and constant enemy agent harrasement. Getting most of my agents killed earlier didn't help against the swarms of rank 30+ enemy agents. Won before turn 300 
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Jun 17, 2016 07:56
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Operant posted:I've officially stopped having fun in my VC campaign. Armies don't actually engage me, they just use march orders to dick around in my territory and snipe settlements if I stop following. Meanwhile their force is composed of 90% mounted ranged units that just kite my infantry around all day, and I win in the end but it takes 30 minutes to do so. Fellbats, more of them. I keep at least 2 and 4 when I'm going at walls.
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Jun 17, 2016 07:56
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Olive Branch posted:Funny, but my composition WAS pretty much oriented around Longbeards with Great Weapons. I watched your Rome 2 videos on factions and noticed the whole price-per-unit thing as being a factor in not sinking too many funds on elites, plus I've read enough of the thread to understand armor-breaking is a big deal. I believe my composition was the Slayer king, a Runesmith, a Master Engineer, two Gyrobombers with brimstone guns, two Thunderers and two Quarrelers, six Longbeards w/GW, and one... I believe Dwarven Warrior w/GW. Gyrocopters are a point sink in most games, you only use them against the Empire and I'd never take 2. Their high AP damage and good mobility makes them OK at sniping demigryph knights but that's about it. They sort of overkill other knights and don't have a good rate of fire. Longbeards with great weapons will lose against black orcs because your guys cost 3/4 of what his do, though yours get efficient trades in that encounter. If you have say, 5 of them to his 4, you should win out since it takes a while for him to kill your units. Never get the great weapons on the standard warriors, they just don't do enough damage even though they're theoretically a damage dealing unit and their defenses suffer a lot. By contrast, standard shield and axe warriors are cheaper, last longer and are great at holding your back line. Master engineers are OK against orcs but only if you take a few catapults. I would only take him or the rune priest, not both. Also, you can use this if you want to get a bit more multiplayer info on the dwarves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-HqQhYxBF8 Yukitsu fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 08:15
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Any suggestions for getting a Very hard Empire off the ground? everyone hates me I can't really afford a second stack and I have no idea what direction to go after quickly wiping out the secessionists. Plus it feels like I'm stuck with trash units for awhile compared to vamps being able to take a stroll over to the latest battlefield and collect the high tier dead.
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Jun 17, 2016 08:41
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Is there a good way to do early sieges without artillery or elites as the Empire? It always seems to boil down to throwing swordsmen at swordsmen at hoping. Short of hoping for a light wizard from the first scripted battle I don't know how better to play it.
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Jun 17, 2016 09:14
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I haven't tried it as Empire, but Dwarves can siege well by just lining up a ton of crossbows and depopulating the battlements. Try that?
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Jun 17, 2016 09:52
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Tehan posted:Is there a good way to do early sieges without artillery or elites as the Empire? It always seems to boil down to throwing swordsmen at swordsmen at hoping. Short of hoping for a light wizard from the first scripted battle I don't know how better to play it. I found that just sending the swords up ladders and having crossbows standing below actually works reasonable well? (hard campaign)
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Jun 17, 2016 09:56
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Tehan posted:Is there a good way to do early sieges without artillery or elites as the Empire? It always seems to boil down to throwing swordsmen at swordsmen at hoping. Short of hoping for a light wizard from the first scripted battle I don't know how better to play it. Loads of infantry, spread out across the front of the wall. Build battering rams and send some dude to bash in both gates as then they need to take units off the wall to defend the gates. If they have a garrison you should be able to beat them like this as what you want to do is stretch out their army along the wall using superior numbers. Then when you see where the weakest point is, throw a couple of extra units there and your Lord to help "win" that section of the wall. Then roll down the wall using your now free troops. If there's a huge garrison or a garrison and an army, you may need two stacks. The tactics are the same it's just you'll need more dudes.
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Jun 17, 2016 09:57
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Kitchner posted:The tactics are the same it's just you'll need more dudes. WW1.txt
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Jun 17, 2016 10:01
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Deified Data posted:So how is a chaos player meant to be taking advantage of chaos corruption? I never quite finished my chaos campaign, will do it again another time with Sigvald or Kholek as my starter since they sound fun. I was always ahead of the corruption reaching high levels, so it didn't seem like much help. Seems to have much more of an impact when you're playing not chaos. Maybe I'm missing something. I think very hard campaign with hard battles is a great difficulty setting imo. It's not that hard, though I do re load a reasonable amount early game. All the issues are solvable I just f'd up, re load and do better. jpparker55 fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 10:19
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Kitchner posted:Loads of infantry, spread out across the front of the wall. Build battering rams and send some dude to bash in both gates as then they need to take units off the wall to defend the gates. Actually, sorry, the best method to taking a city is to put all your crossbowmen/quarrelers/etc in a massive clump just to the left/right of a tower's range in front of the walls (or in front of a destroyed tower) and send your Lord up the wall. The AI will flip their poo poo and send infantry blobs and archer blobs after him while he's standing on the walls and your archers can gun them down as they get near.. By the time your archers run out of ammo, you send in the swordsmen to mop up the remainder (provided you haven't already won). This method doesn't work for Chaos/VC, obviously, but for them you should just autoresolve city maps anyways. You'll usually win with like.. 10 casualties. It's dangerously cheesy.
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Jun 17, 2016 10:22
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WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:Actually, sorry, the best method to taking a city is to put all your crossbowmen/quarrelers/etc in a massive clump just to the left/right of a tower's range in front of the walls (or in front of a destroyed tower) and send your Lord up the wall. The AI will flip their poo poo and send infantry blobs and archer blobs after him while he's standing on the walls and your archers can gun them down as they get near.. By the time your archers run out of ammo, you send in the swordsmen to mop up the remainder (provided you haven't already won). This method doesn't work for Chaos/VC, obviously, but for them you should just autoresolve city maps anyways. You'll usually win with like.. 10 casualties. You can do this tactics for VC/Chaos as well, just replace Archers with Death Magic, more precisely Fate of Bjuna. Plus sending VC/Chaos lords and heroes up the wall is very entertaining and efficiant and often you won't need anything more then them, magic and maybe an elite unit or two of infantry to take out a whole city garrison.
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Jun 17, 2016 10:50
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WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:Actually, sorry, the best method to taking a city is to put all your crossbowmen/quarrelers/etc in a massive clump just to the left/right of a tower's range in front of the walls (or in front of a destroyed tower) and send your Lord up the wall. The AI will flip their poo poo and send infantry blobs and archer blobs after him while he's standing on the walls and your archers can gun them down as they get near.. By the time your archers run out of ammo, you send in the swordsmen to mop up the remainder (provided you haven't already won). This method doesn't work for Chaos/VC, obviously, but for them you should just autoresolve city maps anyways. You'll usually win with like.. 10 casualties. Sure, I mean I guess this works, I never tried it though as I fight with MAXIMUM HONOUR.
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Jun 17, 2016 10:59
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Third World Reggin posted:lol this is going to upset so many people Not bad I guess, but their hats are not ridiculous enough for my taste. Sure, spiky phrygian caps are a nice start, but I am a sucker for the old chorfs headpieces.
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Jun 17, 2016 11:46
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Choyi posted:You can do this tactics for VC/Chaos as well, just replace Archers with Death Magic, more precisely Fate of Bjuna. Plus sending VC/Chaos lords and heroes up the wall is very entertaining and efficiant and often you won't need anything more then them, magic and maybe an elite unit or two of infantry to take out a whole city garrison. VC can also send zombies on to the walls, have the varghulf ram the gate down, and March your spooky skeletons on in while the computer continues to assess the zombies as priority one. Speaking of skeletons, we need a mod to give their March animation to every infantry unit, especially Orks.
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Jun 17, 2016 11:52
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Sieges are so fun as VC. Just send Fluffy at the gate and have 4 stacks of Fellbats to wreck dudes on the way, and terrorgist if you have them. A single unit of terrorgist took 1 casualty and had over 300 kills last siege. Including 3 mortar units that were really doing work on my skeletons sitting outside the wall. Also don't be afraid to send fluffy right at the gate because he can't take fire while he's bashing on it.
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Jun 17, 2016 12:14
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Sieges are so fun as VC. Just send Fluffy at the gate and have 4 stacks of Fellbats to wreck dudes on the way, and terrorgist if you have them. A single unit of terrorgist took 1 casualty and had over 300 kills last siege. You mean vargheists, surely. 'A single unit of terrorgheist took one casualty' is rather bad....
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Jun 17, 2016 12:25
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I am unreasonably glad that "Fluffy Von Carstein" has managed to catch on 
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Jun 17, 2016 12:32
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Fangz posted:You mean vargheists, surely. 'A single unit of terrorgheist took one casualty' is rather bad.... Yes, I do. My bad.
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Jun 17, 2016 12:48
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Speaking of VC is it worth it to get the quest sword? My banshee is almost there, and I can almost afford a 3rd stack to leave at home for defense. I'm up to four provinces so I probably only want to leave one on my northern front and one on my western but the empire is pretty horrified of me. They just paid me 5k to stop murdering them. Was thinking of taking a raiding trip south and razing/sacking a bunch of Greenskins on the way to the sword. Or I could just teleport there?
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Jun 17, 2016 12:53
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Speaking of VC is it worth it to get the quest sword? My banshee is almost there, and I can almost afford a 3rd stack to leave at home for defense. I'm up to four provinces so I probably only want to leave one on my northern front and one on my western but the empire is pretty horrified of me. They just paid me 5k to stop murdering them. Was thinking of taking a raiding trip south and razing/sacking a bunch of Greenskins on the way to the sword. Or I could just teleport there? It's a good item, but teleport to the battle, it's so far from home (it's the pillar of bone quest right?) it's never worth it to go there on foot.
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Jun 17, 2016 12:54
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Important tip for Chaos: when you are done with Marauders, DELETE THAT BUILDING from your horde. It'll cut the cost of adding, say, the Chaos Warrior barracks from 4 pop to just 2. Indeed, if you have the money, always delete buildings you don't intend to ever use again. It's only turn 30 or so and I'm teching up to Chosen.
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Jun 17, 2016 12:59
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Ok thanks. I guess I'll just have one of my stacks raid. Maybe I'll wipe those dwarfs to my south out. They have a pretty good stack going but I should be able to crack then. I took Nuln with like. 90% failure on auto resolve and had very few casualties. My 4 stacks of bats went down to 1 1/2 but that was the biggest loss and that's what they are there for. To murder units on walls and die for their master. I'm maybe 5 turns out from being able to generate fluffy at will. I'm thinking 2 per army should do it.
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Jun 17, 2016 13:13
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Angry Lobster posted:It's a good item, but teleport to the battle, it's so far from home (it's the pillar of bone quest right?) it's never worth it to go there on foot. From a pure strategy standpoint, sure, but the journey could be fun.
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Jun 17, 2016 13:21
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Maybe I'll just save before I try. Enter raiding stance, stomp on everything on the way, wait for units to replenish as needed. I can't auto resolve anything over like 5 units anyways unless I want Fluffy to die. I don't know how it takes so much hp from him. I generally just send him charging right into like 6 units and he always comes out with 75% hp. Anyways the point is since I have to manually fight battles and VC units are stupid strong casualties are hilariously low.
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Jun 17, 2016 13:24
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Tehan posted:From a pure strategy standpoint, sure, but the journey could be fun. Maybe, but I hate dealing with the attrition mechanic for vampires, it sucks the fun out of it for me.
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Jun 17, 2016 13:28
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Angry Lobster posted:Maybe, but I hate dealing with the attrition mechanic for vampires, it sucks the fun out of it for me. Raiding stance yo
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Jun 17, 2016 13:37
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Fangz posted:Important tip for Chaos: when you are done with Marauders, DELETE THAT BUILDING from your horde. It'll cut the cost of adding, say, the Chaos Warrior barracks from 4 pop to just 2. Indeed, if you have the money, always delete buildings you don't intend to ever use again. Yeah another reason to get another horde on turn 1. Two warrior buildings, one marauder building, and one magic building will give you every unit role for a grand total of 8 pop for each horde.
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Jun 17, 2016 13:45
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How do VC defend walls without ranged units?
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Jun 17, 2016 13:47
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Lame Devil posted:How do VC defend walls without ranged units? Grave Guard with Great Weapons can hold walls really well. Meanwhile use your fliers and Black Knights to sally forth and wreck artillery groups.
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Jun 17, 2016 13:52
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Lame Devil posted:How do VC defend walls without ranged units?
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Jun 17, 2016 13:58
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I've never had more than one quest battle a campaign? Do you have to do something to trigger them or is it a bug I suffer from like the raise dead one.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:19
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You guys weren't kidding about Mannfred and the Varghulf. Kill the enemy lords, their army mashes mine due to numbers, and those two still standing and smashing away until the opposition finally disintegrates. Feels a bit cheap after coming from Empire and Dwarfs. The raise dead mechanic is great but seems a bit odd. After a giant battle, I have more troop options including Grave Guard, yaaaay. But then the next turn I get even more, Black Knights, then Black Knights with lances/barding and Vargheists and wraiths and next turn after that a varghulf and a terrorgheist! And I hadn't fought any more battles in that province. Is this how it normally works, I need a few turns for 'decay' to fully kick in? Or were the initial troops possibly from an earlier smaller battle and the massive battle didn't affect raise dead until a few turns later? Mr. Wookums posted:I've never had more than one quest battle a campaign? Do you have to do something to trigger them or is it a bug I suffer from like the raise dead one. There are usually one per quest chain, sometimes two. Check your quests in the top right (the largest button on the left) to see what you need to do next, and if you don't have any quests active, check the top area of your LL's skills page to see when the next quest will unlock.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:21
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I actually like the early game for Chaos. Stomping barbarians into the dirt for 100 turns and them turning to the south as a level 30 war demi god is very satisfying. The trick is to kit out a generic lord, not a named guy.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:25
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rockopete posted:You guys weren't kidding about Mannfred and the Varghulf. Kill the enemy lords, their army mashes mine due to numbers, and those two still standing and smashing away until the opposition finally disintegrates. Feels a bit cheap after coming from Empire and Dwarfs. I think it takes a few turns, yeah. Similarly you can exhaust the supply of raisable terrorgheists, say, but after a while there will be new ones.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:45
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Restarted my Empire campaign to take advantage of some of the things I've learned in the thread and by like turn 10 I've got an Ork stack running through the Reiklands, when in my first game I never even saw them. Had to root them out of a dwarf settlement before I could progress with Empire unification. Also noticed that Chaos agents are much further south much earlier. Also the Empire Secessionists decided to spend sometime trying to kill dwarves rather than engage with me which was also odd. Not sure what randomness there is in the AI but I enjoyed the variability from my first play through.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:24
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