|
Inferior Third Season posted:The real problem is that it's a fight over state law, not federal law. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Department of Justice get involved over the legislature trying to strip the state judiciary of power because they didn't like some judgments. That is a serious threat to the rule of law and separation of powers in general. The feds generally let the states govern themselves as they please, but I'm sure they'll step in if the solution to a state constitutional crisis is to play Game of Thrones until only one branch of the state government remains as king. Yeah, that was my perspective as well. If the Legislature actually makes good on their threat to defund the Judiciary, I guarantee the Feds will get involved. Its also why it probably won't happen, and the Legislature will just throw a tantrum.
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 15:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 09:52 |
|
|
No Butt Stuff posted:There's a better chance that Kansas just descends into even poorer funding and continues the cycle as people move away. Kansas gets de-populated to 0 and the flag gets a hollow star for the first ghost state.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 15:47
|
|
|
TapTheForwardAssist posted:Is there any chance of a literal "Obama sends the National Guard to enforce the federal law" scenario? If Obama is calling in the national guard to save Kansas from itself, it's after the state has already lost all federal funding and is as close to a barren wasteland as it can get without the aid of an army.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 15:56
|
|
|
Isn't the federal government was extremely limited in how much it can intervene in internal state affairs? As stupid and self destructive as the current government is, are they actually crossing any federal lines? Could the Kansas supreme court ask for arbitration?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 16:01
|
|
|
Haystack posted:Isn't the federal government was extremely limited in how much it can intervene in internal state affairs? As stupid and self destructive as the current government is, are they actually crossing any federal lines? Could the Kansas supreme court ask for arbitration? Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence. Miiiight fit under the first clause there. Might not.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
It's actually an interesting issue, because generally all the state governments have loosely been organized the same as the federal, with multiple branches of government that share power and check each other. The question is at what point could a state move far enough from a "Republican" government that there would be pressure to step in, which differs depending on how "Republican" is interpreted (just vaguely democratic or with a working system of checks and balances).
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 17:50
|
|
|
I would love to see a state institute a monarchy and have this experiment come full circle.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
Boon posted:I would love to see a state institute a monarchy and have this experiment come full circle. Under an originalist interpretation of the Constitution, a monarchy ought to be OK, so long as the monarchy is sufficiently close in structure to one of the Serene Republics, like Poland-Lithuania or Venice.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
Boon posted:I would love to see a state institute a monarchy and have this experiment come full circle. New Hampshire should switch over to a Parliament while Vermont can have the elected for life King of the Maplewood as their sovereign.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 19:58
|
|
|
Gyges posted:New Hampshire should switch over to a Parliament while Vermont can have the elected for life King of the Maplewood as their sovereign. Choosing anyone besides Vermin Supreme would be utter madness.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
Warcabbit posted:Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence. I'm pretty sure it directly runs afoul of the first section of the 14th Amendment. Take your pick of some combination of the Privileges or Immunities clause, the Due Process Clause and the Equal Protection clause. Without getting into what exactly what the Privileges of a citizen are, I think most people can see that it would obviously raise huge due process and equal protection issues. A defunding provision directly interferes with procedural due process, because it completely removes the court's ability to act as a neutral decision maker, and it also directly interferes with the rights of citizens to receive substantive due process, as at a minimum you're directly interfering with every citizen's ability to access their incorporated 6th Amendment rights. The legislation also denies everyone within the state the protection of the law. I mean I'm very much not a lawyer and don't know which of these arguments they'd favor, but it seems like this should pretty much be a legal slam dunk in federal court.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 21:15
|
|
|
The state legislature's response to the Supreme Court ruling is to introduce an amendment to the state constitution to prevent the shutdown of the school systems because gently caress actually fixing the problem
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
rscott posted:The state legislature's response to the Supreme Court ruling is to introduce an amendment to the state constitution to prevent the shutdown of the school systems because gently caress actually fixing the problem Fixing problems costs money. Ignoring them costs nothing (in the short term, just everything long-term but who cares).
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
Morrow posted:It's actually an interesting issue, because generally all the state governments have loosely been organized the same as the federal, with multiple branches of government that share power and check each other. The question is at what point could a state move far enough from a "Republican" government that there would be pressure to step in, which differs depending on how "Republican" is interpreted (just vaguely democratic or with a working system of checks and balances).
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2016 04:24
|
|
|
rscott posted:The state legislature's response to the Supreme Court ruling is to introduce an amendment to the state constitution to prevent the shutdown of the school systems because gently caress actually fixing the problem Kansas needs to pull up they're reaching so far back they might bring back slavery (just of educators though).
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 07:14
|
|
|
10 days until the lockout begins. Looks like Johnson county is going to have to give up it's hopes for a hold harmless provision since people seem to believe it'd likely be ruled unconstitutional. Still no plan from the Republican side, they have already rejected the Dems plan out of hand.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 13:39
|
|
|
How much longer can this go on? I feels like they've been circling the drain forever.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 13:55
|
|
|
Radish posted:How much longer can this go on? I feels like they've been circling the drain forever. To borrow a phrase from the Freep thread, there is always more and it is always worse.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:06
|
|
|
It can go on until the locals get the stones to tell the government to gently caress off and elect someone who will unfuck the state, or until it gets so bad that the federal government has to intervene. We have absolutely no idea how long it'll be until one or the other can happen. Nothing like this has ever been done in this country before.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:45
|
|
|
Yeah I highly doubt these people will vote against these idiots no matter how bad it gets. I think it's more likely they vote for an even more right wing person to conservative harder and fix everything. It's more I'm wondering how terrible the situation gets before someone higher up the chain (so Federal) says enough is enough or if that is even constitutional. Like if the public schools entirely shut down or the police can't be paid what happens?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 16:07
|
|
|
Democrats don't even run in this state. There is no one who will unfuck Kansas.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 16:29
|
|
|
If a recent visit by my uncle is anything to go off of, the people of Kansas are breathtakingly broken in their political beliefs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 16:41
|
|
|
What would "intervention" even look like? Federal financial buyout? Appointing federal overseers who have to sign off on financial decisions? Cutting off their federal funding so they're even more totally hosed? I still think sending in the National Guard and running KS like Iraq in late 2003 would be the most amusing option but probably not politically feasible. I need to go check on Free Republic to see how the far-right is interpreting their noble struggle against Big Government. EDIT: Welp, quote:In the end, I believe the goals of the Brownback administration are going exactly to plan – starve the state of resources to the point where it just makes sense to turn over critical government functions to for-profit entities. quote:In other words, primarily because liberals will not accept that they lost an election, they refuse to allow us to have a predictable and stabile economic environment...they create chaos and blame Brownback. quote:And given that the corrupt Washington cartel is taxing and spending for many things that it cannot justify under Congress’s Section 8-limited powers, unconstitutional federal taxation gets us back to Kansas. quote:
quote:As a Kansas taxpayer who finally caught a break due to Brownback's tax cut plan, I say "thank you" Gov. Sam. You have made it a bit easier for me to pay my bills. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
TapTheForwardAssist posted:What would "intervention" even look like? Federal financial buyout? Appointing federal overseers who have to sign off on financial decisions? Cutting off their federal funding so they're even more totally hosed? I still think sending in the National Guard and running KS like Iraq in late 2003 would be the most amusing option but probably not politically feasible. The only problem with this plan is most of the For-Profits are fleeing as fast as possible from that trainwreck because there is almost no profit to be had.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 17:32
|
|
|
TapTheForwardAssist posted:What would "intervention" even look like? Federal financial buyout? Appointing federal overseers who have to sign off on financial decisions? Cutting off their federal funding so they're even more totally hosed? I still think sending in the National Guard and running KS like Iraq in late 2003 would be the most amusing option but probably not politically feasible. Conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed, either through liberal sabotage or because you weren't conservative enough.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 18:17
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:The only problem with this plan is most of the For-Profits are fleeing as fast as possible from that trainwreck because there is almost no profit to be had. Reminder there was another shithole state that lost a car plant because the car company was wasting too much money on teaching basic reading skills/making picture book instruction manuals just for this plant. *goes more conservative, gets feral serfdom * Making jobs for anthropologists.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 18:41
|
|
|
quote:And given that the corrupt Washington cartel is taxing and spending for many things that it cannot justify under Congress’s Section 8-limited powers, unconstitutional federal taxation gets us back to Kansas. Somebody is a little butthurt about federal taxes. How do you read through that crap even just to pull quotes?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 19:44
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:The only problem with this plan is most of the For-Profits are fleeing as fast as possible from that trainwreck because there is almost no profit to be had. So is it just going to end up as State Monsanto and be run by like 50 guys and automation?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 21:33
|
|
|
effectual posted:So is it just going to end up as State I feel like the ultimate endpoint of this is more Mad Max than Corporate Feudalism.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 21:44
|
|
|
I think my favorite is the guy accusing liberals of deliberately sabotaging their economy. I swear some of them sound like they could be mouthpieces for Maduro's government in Venezuela.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 22:43
|
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:I think my favorite is the guy accusing liberals of deliberately sabotaging their economy. I swear some of them sound like they could be mouthpieces for Maduro's government in Venezuela. Horseshoe theory.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
fordham posted:Somebody is a little butthurt about federal taxes. How do you read through that crap even just to pull quotes? poo poo, I've been surfing Freep and mocking it on SA like back before the 2008 election, back before we lost our mod in Benghazi.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 23:02
|
|
|
TapTheForwardAssist posted:poo poo, I've been surfing Freep and mocking it on SA like back before the 2008 election, back before we lost our mod in Benghazi. Do you miss your soul and humanity?
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 00:39
|
|
|
fordham posted:Do you miss your soul and humanity? Lost it in an ambush in Diwaniyah Valley in April 2003. That's why I switched to doing green energy in rural Africa these days.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 01:41
|
|
|
Any more news about this?
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
Fireworks start on July 1st.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 02:21
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Any more news about this? KS Democrats are actually doing things. They sent a letter to Brownback calling for a Special Session of the legislature and amazingly Brownback had an idea to call one. Ahead of that session the Democrats also proposed this: quote:Kansas Democratic leaders unveiled a list of budget cuts Friday that they said would pay for a school finance fix and prevent school closures next month. Almost immediately the KS GOP came out against it. 10 days is when poo poo pops off
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 03:13
|
|
|
So the Democrats' plan is to cut roads, education, and welfare to fix the schools. In response the Republicans defended those budgets and mocked the idea of cutting the funds. What kind of bizarro land of insanity has Brownback sunk Kansas into?
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 04:10
|
|
|
quote:The Democrats also would repeal a program that gives tax breaks to corporations that donate to private school scholarship funds, freeing up another $750,000. Wow, a tax break for donating to a private school? That sounds vile. Anyone have more detail, I'm sure it is written so that the CEO can write a scholarship to fund his son's private school education and get a tax break for it while helping to defund public schools in the process.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 04:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 09:52 |
|
|
Old James posted:Wow, a tax break for donating to a private school? That sounds vile. Anyone have more detail, I'm sure it is written so that the CEO can write a scholarship to fund his son's private school education and get a tax break for it while helping to defund public schools in the process. What the hell do you think an "online school" is but a private for profit org (or church that runs itself like a for profit). Brownback really wants to privatize our schools, so of course the Dem plan was a non starter.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 05:33
|
|