|
The Nards Pan posted:Yeah, but I already have some community college credits and I can take cheaper certs there while working on pretty good lab set ups. I should be able to get an AS in network admin along with a handful of certs in less than a year with very little debt, I'm not cutting huge checks to ITT tech or anything. I have to chime in on this. I've long held the opinion that you REALLY don't need to go to college if you're going to work in IT. HOWEVER you just mentioned one of the huge positives that might sway me otherwise. I would love to get myself some discount certs and have a lab to boot. You're better off not spending the money, picking up the experience, and keeping up with new technologies. Most people I know that went to college for IT related studies wound up becoming programmers. Mostly due to the fact that that's the majority of classes that were offered at the time: Networking / programming. Do colleges even offer courses on stuff that relates to anything else? Like, general system administration stuff? OS', hardware, RAID / backup, virtualization, etc... Also, gently caress ITT Tech. Also, cookies. 
GnarlyCharlie4u fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Jun 17, 2016 |
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 13:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 18:33 |
|
|
GnarlyCharlie4u posted:Do colleges even offer courses on stuff that relates to anything else? Like, general system administration stuff? OS', hardware, RAID / backup, virtualization, etc... They do some of that here in Melbourne, Australia at the local uni's. A System Admin major for an IT Bachelor Degree covered general Windows Server (03 and 08, which were relevant at the time), Unix and Apache admin stuff, along with Python, Powershell and Perl scripting.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 14:03
|
|
|
GnarlyCharlie4u posted:Do colleges even offer courses on stuff that relates to anything else? Like, general system administration stuff? OS', hardware, RAID / backup, virtualization, etc... I can only speak to the North Carolina community college system, but the answer is 'yes' - there are course groupings for both Windows and Linux use and administration under NOS, hardware/software troubleshooting is under either CTS or CTI (can't recall which) which also covers RAID/backup/data storage down the road, networking is under NET, security under SEC, etc. Virtualization is under NOS at some point but you wind up doing it anyways and covering the basics during both the Windows and Linux tracks in the course of covering the RHCSA/MCSA material though there is a literal "virtualization: the class" and degree program titled "Data Storage & Virtualization" that I haven't looked at lately. Then there's stuff like this which is very popular.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 14:52
|
|
|
I worked at the ITT tech corporate office for about a year and that company is hilariously dysfunctional. Got some good technical experience for my resume but everything else was a shitshow.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 15:05
|
|
|
The classes for "IT" have changed A LOT in the last 10-15 years. When I first went to college in the early 2000s the ONLY classes offered at the community colleges and at my university were programming related, 2-3 years later, networking classes started getting offered, and then a year or two after that they started adding windows server etc classes, but they were limited. I'd say in the last 7-8 years is when the more fleshed out classes/course curriculum's really started to be prevalent. This is annecdotal, I'm from illinois and my more recent knowledge is based on that, but when I was looking at 4(5) year universities the only true bachelors that I found were CS, there were a smathering of random classes that dealt with other stuff, but they did not have a degree associated, they were just classes that fell into either your major or GenEd reqs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 15:22
|
|
|
MF_James posted:The classes for "IT" have changed A LOT in the last 10-15 years. When I first went to college in the early 2000s the ONLY classes offered at the community colleges and at my university were programming related, 2-3 years later, networking classes started getting offered, and then a year or two after that they started adding windows server etc classes, but they were limited. I'd say in the last 7-8 years is when the more fleshed out classes/course curriculum's really started to be prevalent. This is annecdotal, I'm from illinois and my more recent knowledge is based on that, but when I was looking at 4(5) year universities the only true bachelors that I found were CS, there were a smathering of random classes that dealt with other stuff, but they did not have a degree associated, they were just classes that fell into either your major or GenEd reqs. A Bachelor of IT degree will cover most of the same general IT majors as a CompSci Bachelors Degree, without the heavy programming courses in the later years.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 15:30
|
|
|
MF_James posted:The classes for "IT" have changed A LOT in the last 10-15 years. When I first went to college in the early 2000s the ONLY classes offered at the community colleges and at my university were programming related, 2-3 years later, networking classes started getting offered, and then a year or two after that they started adding windows server etc classes, but they were limited. I'd say in the last 7-8 years is when the more fleshed out classes/course curriculum's really started to be prevalent. This is annecdotal, I'm from illinois and my more recent knowledge is based on that, but when I was looking at 4(5) year universities the only true bachelors that I found were CS, there were a smathering of random classes that dealt with other stuff, but they did not have a degree associated, they were just classes that fell into either your major or GenEd reqs. I figured as much, and it's good to hear. I went to college 13 years ago (gently caress I feel old now) and prettymuch everyone I know that went around the same time (nation wide, not just my little corner of the country) had never even heard of such courses.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 15:31
|
|
|
So I already own AWS training material from A Cloud Guru, but noticed that Cloud Academy is giving out codes for a month free. Anyone here used Cloud Academy? I'm mostly wondering about what gaps (if any) would be filled in. I don't think A Cloud Guru has labs included.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 15:33
|
|
|
The Nards Pan posted:Yeah, but I already have some community college credits and I can take cheaper certs there while working on pretty good lab set ups. I should be able to get an AS in network admin along with a handful of certs in less than a year with very little debt, I'm not cutting huge checks to ITT tech or anything. If you had a junior sysadmin job on the side, you would probably learn a lot more. MF_James posted:The classes for "IT" have changed A LOT in the last 10-15 years. When I first went to college in the early 2000s the ONLY classes offered at the community colleges and at my university were programming related, 2-3 years later, networking classes started getting offered, and then a year or two after that they started adding windows server etc classes, but they were limited. I'd say in the last 7-8 years is when the more fleshed out classes/course curriculum's really started to be prevalent. This is annecdotal, I'm from illinois and my more recent knowledge is based on that, but when I was looking at 4(5) year universities the only true bachelors that I found were CS, there were a smathering of random classes that dealt with other stuff, but they did not have a degree associated, they were just classes that fell into either your major or GenEd reqs. This seems ridiculous. Post-secondary education is supposed to be about education, not technical training. Students should be picking up principles ideas on operating system design, not the PowerShell command to join a domain on a specific version of a specific operating system that may be obsolete by the time they graduate. That's the sort of training companies should be providing. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jun 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 15:55
|
|
|
AreWeDrunkYet posted:If you had a junior sysadmin job on the side, you would probably learn a lot more. Sure, that would be great, but every single job posting I've seen and applied to requires either school and certs or experience. It turns out that nobody is willing to just take my word that I'm good with computers and a fast learner and would totally pick the job up if they just give me a shot. I'm scheduled to take A+, Net+, and Linux+ before the end of the summer though, so that should help.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 16:16
|
|
|
AreWeDrunkYet posted:If you had a junior sysadmin job on the side, you would probably learn a lot more. I mean now we're delving into the realm of, do you REALLY need a bachelor's for 80% of IT jobs? What I was saying is, when I went to college in early 2000s, all classes were programming/theory based (aside from a few), by the time I left college, CCs were at least offering stuff that was more generalized and not geared towards people going for programming/education/research/hardware and OS development. basically when I started in college, THE ONLY IT RELATED BACHELORS TO GET was computer science, at least at every college I looked at. MF_James fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jun 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 16:24
|
|
|
The Nards Pan posted:Sure, that would be great, but every single job posting I've seen and applied to requires either school and certs or experience. It turns out that nobody is willing to just take my word that I'm good with computers and a fast learner and would totally pick the job up if they just give me a shot. I'm scheduled to take A+, Net+, and Linux+ before the end of the summer though, so that should help. Job postings are fairy tale wishes that are hopelessly disconnected from reality. They are a really poor representation of the people who are actually doing that job. If you think you can do the job then apply for it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 16:26
|
|
|
MF_James posted:I mean now we're delving into the realm of, do you REALLY need a bachelor's for 80% of IT jobs?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 16:27
|
|
|
anthonypants posted:Despite everyone arguing to the contrary a couple days ago, the answer to this question is still no. Agreed. In fact I still don't have one with over 20 years in. Did it slow my progression? Maybe, but probably not. I'm in a senior position and making a competitive wage for my industry, let alone my age group. I'm happy and in a very good place career-wise. Of course at the time I would have gotten a BS, I would have been limited to either a programming heavy curriculum or one that involved technology already years out of date. Neither of which made much sense, which is why I dropped out of college and just dove in.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 16:36
|
|
|
The Nards Pan posted:Sure, that would be great, but every single job posting I've seen and applied to requires either school and certs or experience. It turns out that nobody is willing to just take my word that I'm good with computers and a fast learner and would totally pick the job up if they just give me a shot. I'm scheduled to take A+, Net+, and Linux+ before the end of the summer though, so that should help. Just apply 
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 16:38
|
|
|
air- posted:So I already own AWS training material from A Cloud Guru, but noticed that Cloud Academy is giving out codes for a month free. Anyone here used Cloud Academy? I'm mostly wondering about what gaps (if any) would be filled in. I don't think A Cloud Guru has labs included. I work for a AWS Premier Partner and based on the feedback I've heard from people at my company they're about equal. It's just personal preference.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 16:49
|
|
|
anthonypants posted:Despite everyone arguing to the contrary a couple days ago, the answer to this question is still no. It's definitely not needed and anyone arguing that is just plain wrong, but there is a ton of value not specifically related to an IT job to having a university degree.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 17:13
|
|
|
"I'd like to upgrade the dual AMD GPUs in my Mac Pro to CUDA-capable NVIDIA." "No." Sometimes it's nice when the request is literally impossible to accomplish.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 17:20
|
|
|
AreWeDrunkYet posted:Just apply I did that for 9 months. It didn't work out. Maybe my area has more job seekers than average, I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
CLAM DOWN posted:It's definitely not needed and anyone arguing that is just plain wrong, but there is a ton of value not specifically related to an IT job to having a university degree. This I will agree with. There are plenty of things that I've had to learn over the years that a formal education would have prepared me for. Things like communication skills, documentation, research skills... all the little ancillary things that can help you in your job. I still don't regret not having one, but there are definitely stretches of my career that involved far more effort and getting burned by not being adept at these things than if I had finished college.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 18:34
|
|
|
AreWeDrunkYet posted:This seems ridiculous. Post-secondary education is supposed to be about education, not technical training. Students should be picking up principles ideas on operating system design, not the PowerShell command to join a domain on a specific version of a specific operating system that may be obsolete by the time they graduate. That's the sort of training companies should be providing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 19:53
|
|
|
flosofl posted:This I will agree with. There are plenty of things that I've had to learn over the years that a formal education would have prepared me for. Things like communication skills, documentation, research skills... all the little ancillary things that can help you in your job.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 19:57
|
|
|
A degree generally won't be necessary to do the job, but it can be very helpful to get the job, especially early in your career. There is a glut of degree havers out there so failing to have one when you're just starting out and can't fall back on experience will often get you put on the bottom of the pile or bounced entirely by the HR filter. I think it's harder to break in without one than it was 10 or 15 years ago.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 20:25
|
|
|
None of what you just said is true because there's a guy somewhere who doesn't have a degree or certifications and he makes a lot of money, so I'm fine without them too. This is an actual way that people think. Get qualifications, people.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 20:29
|
|
|
From my limited perspective it still seems like IT management = degree required. Technical specialist or generalist its a nice to have but not necessary. Of course lately I have seen several entry level helpdesk jobs that dont even pay much by helpdesk standards requiring a degree.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
MC Fruit Stripe posted:None of what you just said is true because there's a guy somewhere who doesn't have a degree or certifications and he makes a lot of money, so I'm fine without them too. A degree will always open more doors and, more importantly, will offer you better options to transition to if you decide you like doing something else better.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 21:42
|
|
|
Except in the programming field. I would rather see somebodies portfolio than a lovely Comp-sci degree. Jesus Christ there are so many horrific coders with Comp-sci degrees out there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
ratbert90 posted:Except in the programming field. I would rather see somebodies portfolio than a lovely Comp-sci degree. Jesus Christ there are so many horrific coders with Comp-sci degrees out there. Are you trying to say that you actually look down on people with degrees? How silly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 21:58
|
|
|
AreWeDrunkYet posted:If you had a junior sysadmin job on the side, you would probably learn a lot more. I don't see any problem with teaching proper systems architecture, process management/BPM, ITIL, etc... Actually I really don't see a problem with teaching powershell. I totally agree that the operating systems they're working on will be obsolete by the time they graduate, but won't be completely irrelevant. Teaching bash lays a solid groundwork of fundamentals for understanding lots of Linux based OS' for example.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 22:04
|
|
|
Sickening posted:Are you trying to say that you actually look down on people with degrees? I think you misinterpreted his statement. He is saying a degree is no indication of their programming skill and he would rather see a portfolio.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 22:04
|
|
|
ratbert90 posted:Except in the programming field. I would rather see somebodies portfolio than a lovely Comp-sci degree. Jesus Christ there are so many horrific coders with Comp-sci degrees out there. Bullshit. You aren't HR and fairly often, they are the gatekeepers. A degree will get your foot into places you wouldn't have access to otherwise. Pretending that isn't the case is being willfully blind.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
anyone that manages servers.... had a bunch of people calling me with corrupted server partitions, bitlocker corrupted partition etc. traced it down to firmware issues on the SAS drives. While all the people that are having this issue that I have talked to have dell computers I'm sure it would affect any server running the same sas drives. Make sure you upgrade the Firmware on your SAS Drives in your servers asap.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 22:07
|
|
|
Foe Hammer posted:anyone that manages servers.... had a bunch of people calling me with corrupted server partitions, bitlocker corrupted partition etc. traced it down to firmware issues on the SAS drives. While all the people that are having this issue that I have talked to have dell computers I'm sure it would affect any server running the same sas drives. Make sure you upgrade the Firmware on your SAS Drives in your servers asap. wat
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 22:12
|
|
|
Just got hit with our 3rd ransomware attack for 2016. This time an instructor brought in an infected USB HDD from home and infected their vdi session. Somehow managed to encrypt a bunch of other vdi profiles before we took VMware offline. I feel bad for the guys who are going to have to stay late on a Friday to restore backups...
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 22:22
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:Bullshit. You aren't HR and fairly often, they are the gatekeepers. A degree will get your foot into places you wouldn't have access to otherwise. Pretending that isn't the case is being willfully blind. Ratbert's point is that, as a hiring manager, a candidate having a CS degree is no proof that the candidate is actually able to write any program at all. Which is the source of the FizzBuzz interview tests that apparently offend some skilled people.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 22:31
|
|
|
nielsm posted:Ratbert's point is that, as a hiring manager, a candidate having a CS degree is no proof that the candidate is actually able to write any program at all. Which is the source of the FizzBuzz interview tests that apparently offend some skilled people. Pretty much. I have hired a few people and out of all of them two of them have a degree. Companies are starting to wise up that a CS degree means jack poo poo when it comes to coding capabilities and more and more of them want a portfolio instead of the degree. I would say that more than half of the candidates I interview fail FizzBuzz by the way. Sickening posted:Are you trying to say that you actually look down on people with degrees? Absolutely not, but I don't think people with degrees are inherently good or even mediocre at programming. FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jun 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 22:39
|
|
|
And now I just got instructed by my manager to shutdown all pcs on campus.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 22:42
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:A degree will always open more doors and, more importantly, will offer you better options to transition to if you decide you like doing something else better. Honestly, most of the HR departments I've been dealing with have been pulling their heads out of their asses on this. Instead of blind rejecting, they will forward to the hiring manager to identify who the hiring manager wants to talk to. And, honestly, when I hire I check for a proper thought process because both degrees and experiences never match up 100% in IT worlds. Some "System Administrators" are basically advanced help desk while others are automators. When I've hired for the position, I generally want them to be the second type and I check how their mind functions. Do they observe, troubleshoot and then assemble the process, do they put out the fire, or do they do both? I prefer them to think about the world they live in because it means they will try and grow on their own in many cases. That's far more desirable and indicates someone who will work well in a position than a degree and is can be an important factor when someone is trying to be hired as a new Sys Admin but was a T2+ help desk person at the job they are leaving.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 23:01
|
|
|
Hungry Computer posted:And now I just got instructed by my manager to shutdown all pcs on campus. Oh boy, that sounds like fun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 23:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 18:33 |
|
|
FireSight posted:Oh boy, that sounds like fun. CIO is just playing it safe. There's no evidence yet that it got out of the VMware server, but it's self replicating and surprise surprise Sophos doesn't detect it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2016 23:48
|
|