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The Egyptian scarabs are part of a scene that describes the breaking of reality. First the projection of the wall of rocks come down, symbolising the breakdown of the veil. Then the scarabs enter, symbolising the eater of the dead, and also the movers of the world/bringer of change. Then you get plenty of stuff related to the end of time. Not the "end of times", but the end of time as a concept. Time itself falling apart. This is the part with the watches etc. After this you get the opening of the gates of hell. The portal of eyes summoning the dark Lord into our world. He then opens up the portal from here and the demons come pouring through. So yeah. Plenty of symbolic references to the tribulations. The bridge here referenced is the same "bridge" as the one between this world and the next (that Satan can help you cross but jesus save you from altogether, if this sounds familiar) . The imagery is a bit far fetched for a train tunnel although they made it work... My reading of the performance may very well be off. I'm willing to hear any other suggestions.
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Jun 18, 2016 00:43
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It's a dumb extravagant play funded by Switzerland's ill-earned wealth and Europe's long lasting love of pointless, controversial, and tacky pomp. They hired a German art-house theater director to make the thing and he produced exactly the type of nauseating faux-art trash German art-house anythings are known for. Looking into it any further (outside of trying to decipher the themes on a purely "what the hell were they going for?" basis) is the sign of a broken brain. Seek help.
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Jun 18, 2016 00:49
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moller posted:I know there are occultists because I'd consider myself one. If I don't count because I'm secular humanist materialist garbage, grab some neopagan or OTO person or whatever counts for you. You are right. I don't mean people who are actually atheists that claim some sort of "satanist contrarian philosophy" which are most people that claim they are satanists, occultism etc. Nor do I refer to pagans who are generally polytheistic or animist. I'm talking about people who literally pray and worship to Satan like some hard core Christians or moslems or whatever pray to God. Knowing full well that they are praying to what we would call the devil. Like ritual sacrifice of animals to the dark Lord in the privacy of your own home satanist. Not heavy metal heads who think it's cool. Actual believers. Devil worshippers... I'm grasping for names here but I think you get what I mean. Regardless. I believe those guys exists. So far it's sane, right? So where is the line where sanity ends and paranoid schizophrenia begin?
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Jun 18, 2016 00:56
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BEAR GRYLLZ posted:It's a dumb extravagant play funded by Switzerland's ill-earned wealth and Europe's long lasting love of pointless, controversial, and tacky pomp. They hired a German art-house theater director to make the thing and he produced exactly the type of nauseating faux-art trash German art-house anythings are known for. Looking into it any further (outside of trying to decipher the themes on a purely "what the hell were they going for?" basis) is the sign of a broken brain. Seek help. Are you actually claiming that any attempt at art critique as an intellectual endeavour is a sign of schizophrenia? That is quite the claim. Care to back that up or are you too intellectually lazy to try?
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Jun 18, 2016 01:00
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twistedmentat posted:We knew this was going to come up, but this is by far the worst one They arent even the same loving race 
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Jun 18, 2016 01:06
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A former roommate of mine fervently believed that his investment in Santeria is what caused his mental health issues. I'm inclined to think it is the other way 'round. I'm curious as to why you think Protestant style Satanists would exist? If we accept ideas like sympathetic magic and other "conspiracy" style belief of "real" "Satanism" all the anthropology would point to it being an orthopraxic not orthodoxic religion. In that case, public displays are a key component of what we'd normally call "ritual purity" but in this case "ritual power" is probably better description. If you accept things like black lodges and the like they are all clearly public ritual displays (even if the public is restricted to other enlightened members).
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Jun 18, 2016 01:08
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Tias posted:I have a mild form of face blindness, and have to stick with peoples hair or jaws to identify them unless I know them well. I'd be easy pickings for the crisis actor thing if they weren't, you know, clearly insane. Yeah my housemates an autistic mathematician , and he's a bit face blind, and even though he's gloamed in the back room of my house for like 7 years of a phd he still doesnt always recognize me when I bump into him in town. Of course, being a mathematician and super logical to the point of being basically spock , I dont think the conspiracy buffs would have much luck with him.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:13
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Shbobdb posted:A former roommate of mine fervently believed that his investment in Santeria is what caused his mental health issues. ....or its a bunch of goths who take black metal waaaaay too seriously because gently caress you dad
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Jun 18, 2016 01:14
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Quift posted:
Oh for the love of... the site of the tunnel St Gotthard Pass is famous for having a "devil bridge" there are dozens of Devil bridges, and Devil_______ all over Europe. An art house director was hired to celebrate the opening of train tunnel, arguably the least theatrical feat known to man, and decided to base the thing on the only "thematic" thing of note in the region, and ran with it. Hence why there were also a bunch of alphorn blowers. Artistic types have been freely borrowing from the bible for centuries. Metropolis the king of German expressionism compared working in the factories of the Tower of Babel to being sacrificed on an alter to Moloch. And yet I doubt Fritz Lang was making a pact with the dark one, well perhaps Thea von Harbou was.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:15
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Quift posted:You are right. I don't mean people who are actually atheists that claim some sort of "satanist contrarian philosophy" which are most people that claim they are satanists, occultism etc. Nor do I refer to pagans who are generally polytheistic or animist. As a diagnosed schizophrenic all I can say is that this is exactly how I used to think pre medication and therapy. My first account on this form used to make post exactly like this actually, and got deservedly probated quite a bit for it.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:15
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Prester Jane posted:As a diagnosed schizophrenic all I can say is that this is exactly how I used to think pre medication and therapy. My first account on this form used to make post exactly like this actually, and got deservedly probated quite a bit for it. Did you ever see any of the Kyoon posts? Is that style of thinking familiar to you? He seemed text book paranoid schizophrenic, buuuut I'm not a shrink so yeah
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Jun 18, 2016 01:18
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Quift posted:You are right. I don't mean people who are actually atheists that claim some sort of "satanist contrarian philosophy" which are most people that claim they are satanists, occultism etc. Nor do I refer to pagans who are generally polytheistic or animist. Yeah, the distinction you're making is between "Satanists" and "Devil-Worshipers." And the latter seems to be kind of rare, but they're out there. Usually not the kind of thing you're describing as far as animal sacrifice, etc. though. Two examples I can think of are the Joy of Satan guys and 666 BLACK SUN. The first group hates Christians and call themselves "Spiritual Satanists." The second are literal loving anti-semites and Nazi-fanboys. http://www.joyofsatan.org http://www.666blacksun.net/
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Jun 18, 2016 01:27
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duck monster posted:....or its a bunch of goths who take black metal waaaaay too seriously because gently caress you dad Sure, but for the moment let's discard that and, for the moment, accept that the information in conspiracy theories presents a true, though possibly incomplete, picture of the world. If we accept that and study the religion of "real satanists" through things like Freemasons, Rosicrucians, Illuminati, Knights Templar, Bohemian Grove, Tories, Project Monarch, Yakub's children, the Swiss performance, Satanic Panic, etc. You'd still have no reason to assume they'd practice sacrifices in private. They would probably obey other rituals in private. But sacrifice would be clearly something communal. Again, if we accept that magic is real, that is how every other society has harnesses magic.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:30
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duck monster posted:Did you ever see any of the Kyoon posts? Is that style of thinking familiar to you? He seemed text book paranoid schizophrenic, buuuut I'm not a shrink so yeah Honestly I never made it more than a paragraph into a kyoon post before thinking "there but for the grace of God goes Prester Jane". So I can't really comment very much on him, outside of saying that he certainly wrote like a schizophrenic to me.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nTu4h03jk8 Good to see that Jones is branching out. holy poo poo his fb page is a goldmine of stupid, these comments are really too much https://www.facebook.com/AlexanderEmerickJones/ 
Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 01:33
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Shbobdb posted:Sure, but for the moment let's discard that and, for the moment, accept that the information in conspiracy theories presents a true, though possibly incomplete, picture of the world. You know the thing I find most curious about the Freemason conspiracies is how American centric the conspiracy theory is. I know all about the all seeing eye being on the Dollar bill and how X number of the founding fathers were members. I never heard about the time the Russian Empire suppressed them in the name of conspiracy or that time the Parisian Masonic lodge supported the founding of the Paris Commune when they were in league with the original Communists the followers of Blanqui. I had to learn about that by studying Russian and French history. For a group that is allegedly such a global threat they don't appear to be up to much beyond the fifty states.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:47
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Baka-nin posted:You know the thing I find most curious about the Freemason conspiracies is how American centric the conspiracy theory is. I know all about the all seeing eye being on the Dollar bill and how X number of the founding fathers were members. I never heard about the time the Russian Empire suppressed them in the name of conspiracy or that time the Parisian Masonic lodge supported the founding of the Paris Commune when they were in league with the original Communists the followers of Blanqui. I had to learn about that by studying Russian and French history. For a group that is allegedly such a global threat they don't appear to be up to much beyond the fifty states. From what I've seen of them Masons don't do much other than have weird sacred rituals and organize spaghetti dinners. This is kind of part of the reason conspiracy nuts like them so much; there isn't much public and what you do find is pretty boring. There just isn't a ton of evidence of worldwide conspiracy. Most of the Masons I've known have also been alright dudes; a bit traditional and stodgy for my tastes but from what I've seen they take "better men make a better world" seriously and endeavor to, you know, be better men, if a bit odd and secretive.
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Jun 18, 2016 01:56
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Baka-nin posted:You know the thing I find most curious about the Freemason conspiracies is how American centric the conspiracy theory is. I know all about the all seeing eye being on the Dollar bill and how X number of the founding fathers were members. I never heard about the time the Russian Empire suppressed them in the name of conspiracy or that time the Parisian Masonic lodge supported the founding of the Paris Commune when they were in league with the original Communists the followers of Blanqui. I had to learn about that by studying Russian and French history. For a group that is allegedly such a global threat they don't appear to be up to much beyond the fifty states. Oh, the explanation for this is actually pretty simple - Adam Weishaupt killed and took the place of George Washington. So the USA was essentially a testbed for a nation run from the ground up by the Illuminati.
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Jun 18, 2016 02:07
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I've seen a lot of crap on my feed lately about how the Orlando shooter couldn't have carried that much ammo on him and eye witnesses say there were multiple shooters. Clearly a false flag operation by the government! Even the people that aren't conspiracy nuts are saying poo poo like "just wait for the investigation to finish, we don't know what really happened" gently caress this gay earth.
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Jun 18, 2016 02:27
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^^Giving those people the benefit of the doubt, it's possible some people got shot by the cops. That's a thing they're looking into. I can't imagine there was more than one dude though, somebody would have said something.
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Jun 18, 2016 02:44
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ToxicSlurpee posted:From what I've seen of them Masons don't do much other than have weird sacred rituals and organize spaghetti dinners. This is kind of part of the reason conspiracy nuts like them so much; there isn't much public and what you do find is pretty boring. There just isn't a ton of evidence of worldwide conspiracy. I had a relative who was a 32nd degree Mason, and this is pretty much true. Every once in a while, he went to the lodge with the other 80-year-olds, and might have stayed out as late as eight o'clock in the evening. There didn't seem to be much to it, beyond "kind of neat social club." I lived with the guy for years. I have a feeling he would have let at least a little something slip if he and his pals were up to their eyeballs e pluribusing unums. The guy did have a Masonic talisman that was possibly the coolest pieces of jewelry I have ever seen in my life. It was a featureless gold sphere on a chain, but when you poked here, and twisted there - voila! - it popped open into several leafs with the continents carved onto them, sort of like a 3d Mercator projection.
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Jun 18, 2016 02:45
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Honestly i think the Freemasons are probably a bunch of pedophiles
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Jun 18, 2016 03:40
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ToxicSlurpee posted:From what I've seen of them Masons don't do much other than have weird sacred rituals and organize spaghetti dinners. This is kind of part of the reason conspiracy nuts like them so much; there isn't much public and what you do find is pretty boring. There just isn't a ton of evidence of worldwide conspiracy. There's a few Masons here with a thread somewhere.
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Jun 18, 2016 04:14
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My grandpa and uncle were Masons, and my mom was a Job's Daughter. I have a bunch of my grandpa's old Mason stuff. Old guy drinking club with funny rituals just about hits the nail on the head from what I've seen.
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Jun 18, 2016 06:01
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Baka-nin posted:You know the thing I find most curious about the Freemason conspiracies is how American centric the conspiracy theory is. I know all about the all seeing eye being on the Dollar bill and how X number of the founding fathers were members. I never heard about the time the Russian Empire suppressed them in the name of conspiracy or that time the Parisian Masonic lodge supported the founding of the Paris Commune when they were in league with the original Communists the followers of Blanqui. I had to learn about that by studying Russian and French history. For a group that is allegedly such a global threat they don't appear to be up to much beyond the fifty states. True fact: the John Birch Society had a bug up their butt about the Freemasons. True conspiracy: a shocking percentage of modern English conspiracy theories were either created by or filtered through the John Birch Society.
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Jun 18, 2016 09:35
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Dylanthulhu posted:Yeah, the distinction you're making is between "Satanists" and "Devil-Worshipers." And the latter seems to be kind of rare, but they're out there. Usually not the kind of thing you're describing as far as animal sacrifice, etc. though. Two examples I can think of are the Joy of Satan guys and 666 BLACK SUN. The first group hates Christians and call themselves "Spiritual Satanists." The second are literal loving anti-semites and Nazi-fanboys. But with regards to the bridge story. Do you guys not get that it's a Christian parable? Its not about a physical bridge. To argue this is equivalent to arguing that the matrix (movie) is about computer engineering. The original folklore story is about "crossing the bridge" by sacrificing a goat to the devil and the power of Christ to free us from his influence. To not include Christ in the narrative of the ceremony is to twist it way beyond its original meaning. My question is whether it's plausible that the satanist cult theme was intended as a "public ritual" of "black Magic"? And again. I'm not claiming that that black magic actually works. I'm wondering about the possibility of people who do believe having created this ceremony with the intention of having a public display of black magic.
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Jun 18, 2016 10:19
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Use of bizarre iconography (both Christian and anti-Christian) is nothing new. Calling it 'worship' implies an understanding of the actors' motivations that you do not possess. That's the paranoid schizophrenic leap you're making. You don't know why they're doing it. Artists are weird and sometimes do stuff just because being shocking is something they consider intrinsically important.
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Jun 18, 2016 10:40
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Helsing posted:The tunnel is in Switzerland. Yeah I'm a moron.
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Jun 18, 2016 13:04
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Quift posted:But with regards to the bridge story. Do you guys not get that it's a Christian parable? Its not about a physical bridge. To argue this is equivalent to arguing that the matrix (movie) is about computer engineering. The Devil's bridge story is about a literal bridge though. The folk lore around this and other bridges comes in no small part from the mystery over the history of bridges particularly when there wasn't recorded history for those constructions. The important part of the story is that it explains two things: how the bridge was constructed and who put that big loving rock in the gorge. The earliest tellings of the story didn't include the cross imagery, it was a case of a wise man out witting the devil that had been summoned and tricked by the people. It was later co-opted as a christian parable and had that mythology placed within it.
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Jun 18, 2016 13:43
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duck monster posted:Did you ever see any of the Kyoon posts? Is that style of thinking familiar to you? He seemed text book paranoid schizophrenic, buuuut I'm not a shrink so yeah I miss Kyoon. He was a special kind of crazy that didn't even really make sense, where the evidence was just links to his other blogs which in turn linked to even more of his own blogs or posts he made on random forums.
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Jun 18, 2016 14:04
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Quift posted:Exactly. Thanks. Jesus wept. There is a literal devils bridge in the area, here's a list of these bridges with associated tales. Do you not get that this is an important part of the local culture of the area the man was hired to celebrate? Have you seriously never been to a civic event before in your life? quote:The original folklore story is about "crossing the bridge" by sacrificing a goat to the devil and the power of Christ to free us from his influence. To not include Christ in the narrative of the ceremony is to twist it way beyond its original meaning. No it isn't, you're either lying or you didn't bother to read the original folklore and are making assumptions. Here's the actual folktale about the devil bridge in St Gotthard's pass "A Swiss herdsman who often visited his girlfriend had either to make his way across the Reuss River with great difficulty or to take a long detour in order to see her. It happened that once he was standing on a very high precipice when he spoke out angrily, "I wish that the devil were here to make me a bridge to the other side!" In an instant the devil was standing beside him, and said, "If you will promise me the first living thing that walks across it, I will build a bridge for you that you can use from now on to go across and back. The herdsman agreed, and in a few moments the bridge was finished. However, the herdsman drove a chamois across the bridge ahead of himself, and he followed along behind. The deceived devil ripped the animal apart and threw the pieces from the precipice. " It's about the origins of the bridge and no Jesus shows up. This is the very bridge where that tunnel was dug. Another version of the tale I saw had the entire village trick the devil to get the bridge built by sending a dog across, and no Jesus doesn't show up there either. quote:My question is whether it's plausible that the satanist cult theme was intended as a "public ritual" of "black Magic"? No it isn't remotely plausible, because your revelations reading is wrong, you didn't bother doing your research and now you're stubbornly rejecting extra information. Textbook conspiraloonery. P.S. Having watched the full video it cuts off before the end of the play, which makes the whole exercise worthless? P.P.S. These talking heads believe that Luciferians speak a secret language based on old Italian and Ancient Germanic.
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Jun 18, 2016 15:05
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Quift posted:This was a recreation of the tribulations from the book of revelation, with the twist ending of Satan winning. Quift posted:First the projection of the wall of rocks come down, symbolising the breakdown of the veil. Then the scarabs enter, symbolising the eater of the dead, and also the movers of the world/bringer of change.
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Jun 18, 2016 16:23
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Mendrian posted:Use of bizarre iconography (both Christian and anti-Christian) is nothing new. Calling it 'worship' implies an understanding of the actors' motivations that you do not possess. That's the paranoid schizophrenic leap you're making. You don't know why they're doing it. Artists are weird and sometimes do stuff just because being shocking is something they consider intrinsically important. I'm not assuming their motivation. I'm wondering out loud. Cause I thought that opening ceremony was really hosed up. Most who watch that show react with some kind of "wtf!" after all. This poo poo is so way beyond what I would call appropriate for the occasion that I question why someone would do it. How on earth do you get a green light for this? Pitch meeting "Yeah. About that opening ceremony for the train tunnel. How about we make it about opening a portal to hell?" "sounds awesome. I'm sure everyone in this Catholic country is going to think it's awesome to ride through the hell train" afterwards! What sort of budget to you need? " " I need two hundred dancers, fifty musicians, and plenty of fireworks. So about a million euros" "perfect!" I work in marketing and the very same type of people that greenlit this have the creative boldness of gold fish in my experience.
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Jun 18, 2016 17:22
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:My grandpa and uncle were Masons, and my mom was a Job's Daughter. I have a bunch of my grandpa's old Mason stuff. Old guy drinking club with funny rituals just about hits the nail on the head from what I've seen. Yeah in the UK they're mostly seen as a mutual back scratching club for old small businessmen. The only people here who believe that they're working in some kind of world conspiracy seem to be using stuff they found on the internet from America, or neo-nazi's because Hitler didn't like them either. Although specific lodges(?) of Free Mason's have been accused of conspiracy, but it was for things like a member was a senior police officer or a magistrate so he quashed parking tickets or fines for fellow members. Or one member was on the council and didn't declare conflict of interest when another member applied for something. So there's some corruption about the group but that's true of all the other groups and societies like the Rotarians. Though they were pretty good in the Paris Commune, they fought and died on the barricades and one died flying the Commune's flag from the city walls as a sign of defiance. Karl Marx even talked about them in his writings about the Commune. You'd think the conspiracists would be all over that given how quick they are to connect things with nothing in common.
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Jun 18, 2016 17:44
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Quift posted:I'm not assuming their motivation. I'm wondering out loud. Cause I thought that opening ceremony was really hosed up. Most who watch that show react with some kind of "wtf!" after all. Well I'm going to assume that what happened was they went to the most prominent and decorated theater director active in Switzerland gave him a budget and said "you have full creative freedom, do something that will get attention" and he did this. It's not far removed from the process that the opening ceremony for London 2012 or any of the opening ceremonies for the Euro football championships took place under. They had a ridiculous budget for the whole thing, and in turn it complimented the interfaith blessing ceremony that took place the day before in which Catholic, Protestant, Muslim and Jewish leaders all blessed the tunnel and commemorated the miners who had died. I note that this along with inclusion of a Catholic shrine to Saint Barbara inside the tunnel get conveniently overlooked when the conspiracy theorists make their videos about it.
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Jun 18, 2016 18:16
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Quift posted:I'm not assuming their motivation. I'm wondering out loud. Cause I thought that opening ceremony was really hosed up. Most who watch that show react with some kind of "wtf!" after all. - It's art - about 80% will go WTF anyway. - For example from the parts I saw, that eye thing is disturbing to me. Then again, have you seen "The Scream"? it's certainly also disturbing and some would certainly argue it's like the soul of the damned screaming in hell or whatever; but many people certainly think it's art. - Others, e.g. a right wing politician, thought that some of the whirling things were Islamic dervishes and promptly prophesied the end of the abendland. According to the artist/director they should symbolize hay stacks. (Don't ask me, I think they look vaguely ghostlike (which might actually be a point in your favor), but who knows ). - I mean they could also have shown some folk trachtengruppe dancing, and everyone would go "whoa look how boring* the Swiss are, haven't they joined the 21st century yet" (* insert joke about Tunnel bohren here). - Switzerland isn't "Catholic", although the region in question is. Also, if you couldn't get something like "we'll make the opening ceremony symbolize the building of the tunnel by showing a hole" + some artsy words green lit for the opening ceremony of a large hole, you should look for a job outside of marketing. Or everyone on the board is a satanist, ever thought about that?
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Jun 18, 2016 18:35
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Quift posted:I'm not assuming their motivation. I'm wondering out loud. Cause I thought that opening ceremony was really hosed up. Most who watch that show react with some kind of "wtf!" after all. Actually I think most who watched it were either chin-stroking artist types saying "man this is so edgy" or normals rolling their eyes at a bunch of chin-stroking artist types trying to be edgy Quift posted:"sounds awesome. I'm sure everyone in this Catholic country is going to think it's awesome to ride through the hell train" afterwards! What sort of budget to you need? " Geneva was such a wellspring of Calvinism that John Calvin eventually had to tell people to stop calling Geneva the New Jerusalem. Catholics in France dragged a huge metal cross up a mountain bordering Geneva in the hopes that all of the Protestant sinners below would see this huge loving cross getting struck by lightning all the time and realize that Catholics were actually awesome all along. Switzerland is extremely Not Catholic.
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Jun 18, 2016 19:51
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The Mandingo posted:I've seen a lot of crap on my feed lately about how the Orlando shooter couldn't have carried that much ammo on him and eye witnesses say there were multiple shooters. Clearly a false flag operation by the government! If you follow the live coverage of any big shooting, you will almost always hear of witnesses saying there were multiple shooters and that "automatic" weapons were used. It's a matter of chaos loving with people's perception and lack of familiarity with gunfire up close.
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Jun 19, 2016 02:19
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Mr. Funny Pants posted:If you follow the live coverage of any big shooting, you will almost always hear of witnesses saying there were multiple shooters and that "automatic" weapons were used. It's a matter of chaos loving with people's perception and lack of familiarity with gunfire up close. during columbine, there were reports of up to four shooters because kelbold and harris took their coats off at some point. turns out stress does not lead to reliable memories
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Jun 19, 2016 02:57
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QuarkJets posted:Actually I think most who watched it were either chin-stroking artist types saying "man this is so edgy" or normals rolling their eyes at a bunch of chin-stroking artist types trying to be edgy Parts of Switzerland. It's a whole mishmash but yes, blanket calling it a Catholic country is way wrong. And yeah, plenty of folk stories of Devils, weird masks and other pagan remnants have stuck around, especially in the remoter valleys. We used to be terrified of going into the carnotzet (drinking room) of our friends because it was basically a cave with terrifying masks of mountain spirits on the wall.
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Jun 19, 2016 07:58
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