|
Questions to chaos players: Is it possible to recruit the bird guy? He seems pretty cool Are sorcerer heroes even worth it as part of an army compared to exalted heroes? If yes, what kind. And a bit of advice to new chaos players - kill norscans ASAP. They are absolute cunts and if they ask for peace it is a filthy lie, they only do it to colonize north and then send 3-4 stacks at you every turn.
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 11:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 10:12 |
|
|
terrorist ambulance posted:That actually sounds like a pretty good way to play. Especially if you use lords specced for sacking and raiding to do the work. I don't usually use sacking / raiding much except for Chaos, which can't survive except without it because it doesn't seem to have much of a return, but I guess repeatedly sacking a set of "tamed" dwarf settlements could also work. just keep paying attention to the settlement to make sure the dwarves don't develop any serious army. In my game they got shattered between me, VC and Chaos so what little armies they had were all up north.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 11:54
|
|
|
Sekenr posted:And a bit of advice to new chaos players - kill norscans ASAP. They are absolute cunts and if they ask for peace it is a filthy lie, they only do it to colonize north and then send 3-4 stacks at you every turn. I got peace with the Skaelings and spent my time loving over the varg, after which i ended up wiping out the skaelings in three or so turns. Its certainly possible
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 11:56
|
|
|
Sekenr posted:Questions to chaos players: Aren't sorcerers the unit with the block army skill? What lore does the chicken use? I never watched him going to work.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 11:59
|
|
|
Sekenr posted:Are sorcerer heroes even worth it as part of an army compared to exalted heroes? If yes, what kind. Death. Life Leech and Fate of Bjuna are the only spells you'll want, and the only spells you'll need.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 12:19
|
|
|
The Lone Badger posted:Death. Life Leech and Fate of Bjuna are the only spells you'll want, and the only spells you'll need. Overcharged Doom & Darkness is also pretty good to trigger a chain route after sniping their general.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 13:06
|
|
|
Haha what the gently caress? Turn 8 orc hard/v. hard, I have 3 or 4 savage orc stacks, 1 barak varr stack and one karak azul stack in my territory. The gently caress am I even supposed to do? Grimgor failed (or passed I guess) an intercept roll so I couldn't do poo poo about one of the dorf stacks or take one of the orc stacks before they ganged up and rolled him. Karak 8 peaks duders spent the entire time sitting in front of the settlement south of Valaya's Sorrow in a raiding camp. Thanks guys, don't defend your capital or anything! genericnick posted:Aren't sorcerers the unit with the block army skill? Mr Watcher uses lore of metal. Gitro fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jun 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 13:18
|
|
|
a.k.a. the worst lore.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 13:37
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:The Empire is down to just Altdorf and some other city in that province. Chaos is running wild over the northernmost ones and around Altdorf. All the Dwarves are dead. Greenskins have had half the badlands raided. Bring my two expeditionary armies back north now to finish on the Empire and push out Chaos. I have 3 full elite stacks and a mix matched. 2 elites on offense and 2 sorta perched in the center of my holdings. This falls apart the moment someone breaks out spears. Or worse, halberds. They will route the gently caress out of them due to the lack of leadership they have. Which disables their regeneration. Which causes them to die quickly. Mods that adds more of them in highlight that issue. They're only powerful because some of the factions have gently caress all in terms of anti-large defense as far as the AI's recruitment of them is concerned. I imagine that'll get more obvious as they add in more units and factions. You really do need some infantry troops to fill out the fight. VC's seem to have more of a roster imbalance than mechanical imbalance at the moment. Archonex fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jun 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 14:25
|
|
|
Archonex posted:This falls apart the moment someone breaks out spears. Or worse, halberds. They will route the gently caress out of them due to the lack of leadership they have. Which disables their regeneration. Which causes them to die quickly. Mods that adds more of them in highlight that issue. They're only powerful because some of the factions have gently caress all in terms of anti-large defense as far as the AI's recruitment of them is concerned. In my experience Halberds do literally nothing to Mannfred past the early game and will tend to rout first anyways after you murder their hero or dump a couple vargs on them at once. Not that Halberds should be catching your fast, flying monsters long enough to kill them before you heal it back up anyways... This is a faction where you can literally solo entire armies with the lord, and you can beat basically any roster with Lord + monstrous creatures. That is mechanical imbalance and it's pretty easy to spot. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jun 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 14:45
|
|
|
Has anyone done an unit breakdown of the Chaos warriors, yet? I'm doing okay with marauders, chosen, forsaken and a bit of chaos spawn, but now I need to figure out what next to build. I can either go straight for giants, dragon ogres to unlock kholek, try out chaos knights, or go for hellcannons and pick up chariots along the way. Thoughts?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 14:46
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Has anyone done an unit breakdown of the Chaos warriors, yet? I'm doing okay with marauders, chosen, forsaken and a bit of chaos spawn, but now I need to figure out what next to build. I can either go straight for giants, dragon ogres to unlock kholek, try out chaos knights, or go for hellcannons and pick up chariots along the way. Thoughts? Both knights and dragon ogres are pretty good, giving you some legit heavy cav options. Hellcannons are useful mostly on the strategic side of things, letting you assault walled cities immediately.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 14:50
|
|
|
Warbadger posted:Both knights and dragon ogres are pretty good, giving you some legit heavy cav options. Hellcannons are useful mostly on the strategic side of things, letting you assault walled cities immediately. Hell cannons are super loving good. Regardless of which side they're on I usually see them get ~100 kills per battle. wtf are you doing with them that they're only useful "on the strategic level"? 
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 15:14
|
|
|
poo poo gently caress I didn't make a manual save of my vc campaign before quitting out and starting orcs. Reeeally hope I didn't lose 20+ turns of game. Also I'm pretty sure it's more cost effective to disband and rehire a banshee (assuming it's level one) by the time you've gotten one all the way down for mannfred's sword. Is there a mod to just skip or autocomplete those dumb objectives?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 15:17
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Has anyone done an unit breakdown of the Chaos warriors, yet? I'm doing okay with marauders, chosen, forsaken and a bit of chaos spawn, but now I need to figure out what next to build. I can either go straight for giants, dragon ogres to unlock kholek, try out chaos knights, or go for hellcannons and pick up chariots along the way. Thoughts? Go for hellcannons and keep the heavy infantry you have, they fair much better in autoresolve than the cool stuff and that's your primary weapon in the Chaos campaign. Unrelated, but are Gorebeast Chariots bugged? They only have 33 upkeep while the normal ones have 100+...
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 15:32
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Has anyone done an unit breakdown of the Chaos warriors, yet? I'm doing okay with marauders, chosen, forsaken and a bit of chaos spawn, but now I need to figure out what next to build. I can either go straight for giants, dragon ogres to unlock kholek, try out chaos knights, or go for hellcannons and pick up chariots along the way. Thoughts? Giants are very expensive to field and maintain so I would save them for after you've covered more of your basics (for me they were the final piece I added as the cherry on top of my doom stacks). Don't get me wrong, they are great units, but they are a liability for auto-resolve and take forever to heal while encamping in enemy territory (so most everywhere but the north), so you have to be careful not to let them lead the charge. Dragon Ogres are quite good and possibly worth it just to unlock Kholek, but since I started with him and a unit of them I never bothered. Chaos knights are excellent cavalry and their buildings also give you bonus favor every turn so I typically pick them up pretty fast since fielding good cavalry is a fantastic strategic upgrade. Hellcannons are also excellent, and even though I like chaos knights better than gorebeast chariots the chariots are currently bugged with an absurdly low upkeep so they are actually pretty useful. Chariots require a lot of babysitting to be effective though. So basically, I'd go with knights or hellcannons personally depending on your preference for cavalry or siege weapons. If you still can't decide, go with knights for the + favor every turn tiebreaker. After that I'd go for dragon ogres for Kholek over giants. Personally, I created a second army for hellcannons since when I go with siege I tend to want to go big (like 5-6 units) and only bothered with them on my main army when I had nothing else to build.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 15:33
|
|
|
Hellcannons own, for a lot of reasons. In field battled a battery of four Hellcannons will force just about any army to charge across the field to you, which is just hilarious. I've seen armies nearly break by the time the lines hit just from veteran Hellcannon fire on the way across the field. They're a single piece artillery unit so if you're good at the manual fire mode you can rack up loads of kills. They let you assault walls right away, so you're various monsters can just batter down the gate while your Hellcannons rake the walls. Hellcannons just own.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 16:04
|
|
|
Yeah, my starting Hellcannon from Sigvald is pretty awesome. I wanna get more of them so my other armies can have that goodness, and also so they can hit walled towns in one turn so I can get a multi front offensive going.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 16:16
|
|
|
How do you manual fire anyway? Also how to get the reinforcements to become AI controlled?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 16:17
|
|
|
ssmagus posted:How do you manual fire anyway? Push Insert.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 16:17
|
|
|
How do you reach Estalia from the east? I just got done sacking the hell out of Tilea but i can't seem to reach them. There's this massive swamp on one side and a massive forest area on the other that i can't cross any way at all. Some pictures:  Hahahahahahahahahah  
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 16:22
|
|
|
No land bridge. Sail from the eastern Tilean port.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 16:27
|
|
|
I'd love to be able to take direct control of single monsters and heroes too. Taking out an entire enemy unit with fluffy's improvised club attack would be so fun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 16:39
|
|
|
Mans posted:
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 16:56
|
|
|
Mannfred and Varghulf can't solo on very hard, at least not by mid-game. The difference is in the enemy not routing--they essentially halve your fear effect--so instead of coming out of scrapes with 600/2000 enemies dead because the other 1400 ran away it's more like you died at around 600/2000 enemies dead because the other 1400 still were trying to kill you and blobbed you and made it harder to retreat and regen*. You can still solo early game stacks because they can't really touch mannfred too effectively after he's sniped the other lord and then the varghulf can just stay on the fringe and get rear charges, but by mid-game that just isn't true of mannfred anymore since things like savage orcs or halbs or greatswords or most dwarf units can definitely start hurting him--+12% melee attack and +12% weapon damage is actually enough to make that difference. Dwarf lords also tend to take more like 4 casts to go down and if you don't down them they can definitely murderize mannfred with those stat buffs. You'll run out of magic and thus heals before you get the kills you'd need to win. Unit sizes probably make a difference here since at the moment not everything scales with them so nicely or at all, but I've been playing on large most recently. On my laptop I was on medium and probably have to re-inspect even something like Kholek on large/legendary. I think 90% ward save with an item heal and massive AoE attacks are still really good? *unless the AI decided to go back to launch Rome 2 and do that weird thing where they all dance around in circles without actually attacking your units. If they're doing that then you've basically won since no more than 1-2 units will be attacking you at a time giving everybody room to maneuver and retreat to heal. They really need to fix this since it kind of does happen a lot, especially if you were the one to initiate the attack.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 17:14
|
|
|
Mans posted:I'm currently 150 turns into an Orc campaign and i've got to ask, is this goon consensus? The northern dwarves will *always* come gently caress with you, the north isn't secure and you can't deal with the southern threats until you deal with the dwarves It's actually pretty easy to pin the dwarf faction down, but dealing with the stuff to the south is harder, so I usually make peace with the southern dwarves when they ask and gently caress up the northern dwarves Give some money gifts to the top knots to hopefully keep them off your rear end I have a much harder time dealing with the empire legendary start because everything wants to gently caress with you
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 17:14
|
|
|
unwantedplatypus posted:Hell cannons are super loving good. Regardless of which side they're on I usually see them get ~100 kills per battle. wtf are you doing with them that they're only useful "on the strategic level"? I said "mostly". Allowing you to seamlessly kick over cities was a bigger deal to me than murdering some dudes in battle that I could also have murdered with lance knights.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 17:20
|
|
|
Decus posted:Mannfred and Varghulf can't solo on very hard, at least not by mid-game. The difference is in the enemy not routing--they essentially halve your fear effect--so instead of coming out of scrapes with 600/2000 enemies dead because the other 1400 ran away it's more like you died at around 600/2000 enemies dead because the other 1400 still were trying to kill you and blobbed you and made it harder to retreat and regen*. You can still solo early game stacks because they can't really touch mannfred too effectively after he's sniped the other lord and then the varghulf can just stay on the fringe and get rear charges, but by mid-game that just isn't true of mannfred anymore since things like savage orcs or halbs or greatswords or most dwarf units can definitely start hurting him--+12% melee attack and +12% weapon damage is actually enough to make that difference. Dwarf lords also tend to take more like 4 casts to go down and if you don't down them they can definitely murderize mannfred with those stat buffs. You'll run out of magic and thus heals before you get the kills you'd need to win. -Units of Cav are trying to flank your main infantry formation. The AI will always do this with cav, and time the flank shortly after the line makes contact. -If you put units of spears on the flanks and never touch them again, that's the best move. Your guys will soak the charges but do ok since they have the charge bonus negation thing as spearmen, and they won't chase fleeing units -If you make the mistake of clicking an enemy unit it will kite your melee guy and pull him out of formation -Even when the enemy cav decides to engage your units the AI will pull it out 2-3 times to cycle charge -You either have to micro the units back or let them eat the charge every time Routing complicates the above since your guys will either pursue or disengage accordingly. So I have a unit of greatswords wrecking some goblin spider riders. The goblin spider riders break, so my greatswords stop fighting them. The spider riders reform 3 seconds later and charge into the back of your greatswords that were just killing them. Yeah they'll eat a rear charge too. Basically, it feels like when a unit routs it's pure upside for the AI. Your units will either ignore it or pursue it - whichever would be worse, the unit gets to reposition for free, and there's no stacking 'broke before, max morale is now lower' thing that they used to have. I've had an enemy unit of boars, that has been broken 3 times, come back and with the 3 remaining boars tie up my crossbowmen before dying to them. I mean come on quote:*unless the AI decided to go back to launch Rome 2 and do that weird thing where they all dance around in circles without actually attacking your units. If they're doing that then you've basically won since no more than 1-2 units will be attacking you at a time giving everybody room to maneuver and retreat to heal. They really need to fix this since it kind of does happen a lot, especially if you were the one to initiate the attack. I see some mild chicken dancing on charges - where the AI seems to try to bail out of a charge, wait 5-10 seconds, then actually charge you. Other than that, I haven't seen too much AI broken dancing like Rome 2. Yeah I agree that VH kinda wrecks certain strategies. The AI units can't really rout or shatter too easily, you'll be fighting their army to the end. Fear units are pretty bad accordingly, in the campaign at least. The morale stuff along with the combat stuff is just a touch wonky. I think there's other ways to improve AI combat performance that aren't as overt.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 17:32
|
|
|
Get some wolves and chase them off the map.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 17:38
|
|
|
Rygar201 posted:Hellcannons own, for a lot of reasons. In field battled a battery of four Hellcannons will force just about any army to charge across the field to you, which is just hilarious. I've seen armies nearly break by the time the lines hit just from veteran Hellcannon fire on the way across the field. You failed to mention that they are self- guided as well
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 17:39
|
|
|
Every commander should start with an arty unit I think. Unless they already do, in which case BOY AM I EMBARRASSED!
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 17:39
|
|
|
Grognan posted:Get some wolves and chase them off the map. Yes if you have some good cav and send them to smash the enemy lovely cav that is an absolutely winning move. Assuming you are at the point in the campaign where you have cav, you should for sure smash the enemy cav with it in the early parts of the battle. It really works well with the battle flow too - as you finish mopping up the enemy cav, your cav gets to flank the engaged infantry. It's actually this AI behavior that upped my opinion of cav big time. They are more useful than ranged units at taking down cav, at least from what I've seen in Warhammer. The enemy cav will STILL break and drag your cav across the entire map which requires you to micro the units constantly. So it's still an annoyance, but a workable one if you stay on top of it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 17:42
|
|
|
Yeah, wolves are really good for chasing routing enemies especially once you tech to reduce their upkeep since otherwise they're kind of expensive for something that should be an expendable. I don't have too much of a problem with units routing and reforming, though I do kind of wish that routing units got exhausted faster if they aren't going to have their speed debuffed right out. Also, just checked and I'd been using one of my mods so not actually sure if he still cant' solo vanilla very hard! Forgot I even had that ticked since it's on page 2 of the mod select screen but I'd made the fatigue effects harsher and decreased defense a bit further when flanked/attacked in the rear so all of that would definitely have made any one-man army strategy far less effective.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 17:43
|
|
|
Decus posted:Also, just checked and I'd been using one of my mods so not actually sure if he still cant' solo vanilla very hard! Forgot I even had that ticked since it's on page 2 of the mod select screen but I'd made the fatigue effects harsher and decreased defense a bit further when flanked/attacked in the rear so all of that would definitely have made any one-man army strategy far less effective. Not related to your post directly, just wanted to throw this out there: Having played some Grimgor campaigns I feel that his lack of a mount really cripples his ability to be a battlefield menace. I get it, it's flavor and balancing. As a counterpoint, I'd like to submit that flying poo poo is loving cool and I shouldn't have to do Azhag if I wanna fly and wreck poo poo. Karl Franz gave me more of the melee monster experience than Grimgor did, sadly the roster is not as fighty.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 17:46
|
|
|
Finished Chaos long campaign and I am SO HAPPY I won't have to do it again. The winning strat seems to be ignoring the cool stuff in favor of spamming autoresolve with stacks full of heavy infantry. Fighting Horsca was actually the most fun part of the whole campaign, if that says anything. I never even recruited Archaeon, lol. The great Everchosen was off in his vacation home during the End Times, I guess. I never met Brettonia before they were defeated, and the Dwarfs had their poo poo pushed in by the Greenskins so by the time I got to them they were just a couple isolated settlements. The Empire employed their usual strategy of absorbing allies more powerful than they are halfway across the map right when you have their last settlement cornered and playing keep-away with their stacks who can't be ambushed because apparently Chaos shouts and screams everywhere they go. Kholek is probably the best LL in the game that isn't broken, though. If a mod ever comes out that just makes the Chaos strategic layer like everyone else's (and removes everything that makes them Deified Data fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jun 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 18:12
|
|
|
toasterwarrior posted:All you need to recruit the Empire's entire army roster is achievable with a main settlement + one minor settlement, IIRC. You could move it to Talabecland if you wanted since it's right on the frontlines against Chaos and the VCs, and Warrior Priests make growing to that point a lot easier. Wait, really? That's amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 18:16
|
|
|
Deified Data posted:Finished Chaos long campaign and I am SO HAPPY I won't have to do it again. Get this: Huns were the least popular / fun faction in Attila, and Chaos sucks poo poo in Warhammer. Not only that but the strategic layer is worse for it, as the sack and move / force march whenever you like stuff is pretty much expressly there to make horde gameplay work. It would have been simpler, easier, and more effective to have Chaos take over cities from the north and start making ever larger armies accordingly. Nope instead it's scripted benny hill stacks that run around your empire for 30 turns. CA doesn't seem to be able to let some of their ideas go, just double down on them. Agents are annoying? Now you HAVE to use them. Horde gameplay is underwhelming? Make it the main mechanic of the antagonist faction. Good stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
Rakthar posted:CA doesn't seem to be able to let some of their ideas go, just double down on them. Tell that to the Avatar System.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 18:24
|
|
|
Chomp8645 posted:Tell that to the Avatar System. Ok, let me amend that to CA only spitefully retains and expands features players express dislike for.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 18:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 10:12 |
|
|
I'm crying irl.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 18:26
|
|