|
Akett posted:In that case a more accurate statement would be "The Star Wars films are not the thing liked by Star Wars fans." The problem with "Star Wars fans do not like Star Wars" is that it inherently leads into a pedantic argument before anything of value can actually be said. The pedantic argument also tends to generate needless hostility because they think you are attacking them directly. You can skip past the pedantry before it even begins. That is striving to depoliticize what I have written. The entire point of my project is to illustrate how the Star Wars fandom is antithetical to what Star Wars 'is.'
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 02:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 05:09 |
|
|
star wars 'is' good. i like it
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 02:12
|
|
|
Star Wars! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T0BHRluhNY
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 02:25
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:That is striving to depoliticize what I have written. The entire point of my project is to illustrate how the Star Wars fandom is antithetical to what Star Wars 'is.' I thought it was to redeem bad movies through volumes of fanfiction and Zizek quotes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 02:49
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:That is striving to depoliticize what I have written. The entire point of my project is to illustrate how the Star Wars fandom is antithetical to what Star Wars 'is.' So you're saying that you would have the same pedantic argument every time before you get to your actual point rather than just starting at that point? Your overall argument is against the status quo, how can making a part of it more clear cause it to become apolitical?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 03:04
|
|
|
TFA is a silly, forgettable retread of a movie that is made great by some excellent and relatable performances with understandable motivations. The prequals are interesting, memorable, innovative movies ruined by completely terrible and unrelatable performances with mystifying motivations.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 03:14
|
|
|
Wank posted:TFA is a silly, forgettable retread of a movie that is made great by some excellent and relatable performances with understandable motivations. The prequals are interesting, memorable, innovative movies ruined by completely terrible and unrelatable performances with mystifying motivations. Holy poo poo, a reasonable opinion! On the internet!
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 03:16
|
|
|
I for one want to say that SMG and a couple of others in this thread finally convinced me, after forty years of fandom, that I do not actually like Star Wars
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 03:17
|
|
|
Wank posted:TFA is a silly, forgettable retread of a movie that is made great by some excellent and relatable performances with understandable motivations. The prequals are interesting, memorable, innovative movies ruined by completely terrible and unrelatable performances with mystifying motivations. The characters are what matters to me the most so this makes sense. And also makes TFA less forgettable than the prequels, which I normally don't think about unless this thread is brought up. I guess the music is cool and the designs are alright. But the characters in Star Wars is what always drew me to it, and why I love it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 03:20
|
|
|
I have a little trouble wrapping my head around having "the characters" be what matters most to you and then ending up at a weird mash-up sci-fi adventure, but I suppose stranger things have happened. It definitely seem like it's missing what makes Star Wars distinct.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 03:29
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:I have a little trouble wrapping my head around having "the characters" be what matters most to you and then ending up at a weird mash-up sci-fi adventure, but I suppose stranger things have happened. It definitely seem like it's missing what makes Star Wars distinct. Han Solo, Chewie, the droids, Luke, Leia, Darth Vader, thats all star wars my man! The star wars universe is cool and the characters in that universe are part of what makes it cool! Dexter Jettster is NOT star Wars!!!!! The things I liked about star wars as a kid were the rebel soldiers & their space ships, the battle scenes, and Han Solo. The prequels space scenes sucked compared to ANH & ROTJ imo. The naboo star fighter design is ok, but what it turned out to be didn't do it for me in TPM. It never improved after that for either of the other two prequels. TFA gave me that good poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 03:34
|
|
|
I'm not saying not to appreciate the characters. But the dude who said that the prequels were bad purely because of the characters, while TFA is good purely because of the characters, is mystifying. If all you care about is great characters, you don't need $200 million in special effects, watch Gosford Park or something.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 03:38
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:I'm not saying not to appreciate the characters. But the dude who said that the prequels were bad purely because of the characters, while TFA is good purely because of the characters, is mystifying. If all you care about is great characters, you don't need $200 million in special effects, watch Gosford Park or something. But the setting is part of what makes the characters and makes them shine. Like I'm sure there are cool characters (or similarly realized ones anyways) in other genres & settings, but being interested in the sci fi aesthetic is what lures you to star wars in the first place. Han Solo is a smuggler who flies a space ship. Thats cooler than a Han Solo who doesn't fly a space ship all else being equal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 03:45
|
|
|
Jerkface posted:But the setting is part of what makes the characters and makes them shine. Like I'm sure there are cool characters (or similarly realized ones anyways) in other genres & settings, but being interested in the sci fi aesthetic is what lures you to star wars in the first place. Han Solo is a smuggler who flies a space ship. Thats cooler than a Han Solo who doesn't fly a space ship all else being equal. Sure, so note I'm talking about a post which called out "excellent and relatable performances with understandable motivations," not Han Solo being an outer space cowboy smuggler.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 03:47
|
|
|
Thinking about it, the bad guys in TFA shouldn't have been Dark Side worshipers or whatever, but Anti-Force. They blame the Jedi and Sith equally for all the bad poo poo in the universe and so wnat to wipe them out. Keep Kylo Ren with them too. He rejects his parents so hard he decides to kill all Force Users to save the Galaxy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 03:47
|
|
|
I expect that The Force Awakens, like most of its predecessors, will become better when considered in light of its sister episodes. The deliberate inclusion of this property is increasingly common in contemporary serial filmmaking, and while many disapprove of it, I think that it can be used to very good effect. It is a weakness of the film that it is foundational. Too much of its meaning is tied up in conspicuously inconclusive clues. It's all well and good to suppose that future films will disambiguate them based on audience impressions, but in the mean time you're left with only the least architecturally interesting part of the building.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 04:12
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:Thinking about it, the bad guys in TFA shouldn't have been Dark Side worshipers or whatever, but Anti-Force. They blame the Jedi and Sith equally for all the bad poo poo in the universe and so wnat to wipe them out. This also makes the force awakening [in the sense of literally everyone coming into contact with it rather than it being a special Jedi thing, regardless of whether it's 'just' mutant powers or something deeper] a much bigger deal and makes Kylo's conflict more interesting than "but i want to be good???" and finally shuts the door on the dumb 'only force users can wield laser swords because they're ~special snowflakes~' nonsense
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 04:15
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:I have a little trouble wrapping my head around having "the characters" be what matters most to you and then ending up at a weird mash-up sci-fi adventure, but I suppose stranger things have happened. It definitely seem like it's missing what makes Star Wars distinct. Yeah but like, the effects and visuals only go so far. Characters are why people fell in love with the series.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 04:31
|
|
|
Wank posted:TFA is [...] made great by some excellent and relatable performances with understandable motivations. That's not exactly the case, as there's a significant gap between the 'relatability' of the characters and what their actual motivations are understood as. You can't really dispute the confusion over what exactly the New Order and the Resistance are up to - and, consequently, how each of the characters slot into the whole conflict. Recall Ray's weird complaint about being 'hunted by a creature in a mask'. RBA Starblade posted:I thought it was to redeem bad movies through volumes of fanfiction and Zizek quotes. You have thought many things, about me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 04:41
|
|
|
I'm mystified as to what makes Kylo Ren such a nuanced and relatable character to some people. This is a guy who casually murders scores upon scores of innocent people without the slightest hint of remorse, and the big reveal behind his motivations for these actions is that.....he's insecure about the fact that he'll never be as great as his evil Nazi grandfather? Whose burnt skull he creepily worships on a shrine filled with the ashes of his murdered victims? That's a decent characterization for a villain who's a complete unlikable sociopath, but it doesn't make him seem very sympathetic or human. And he's not even a charismatic villain-- he's a 30-year-old man who acts like a tantrum-throwing edgelord 13-year-old (that Twitter account is hilarious, incidentally). e: And yes, I know we've already made this exact argument. That's because there's an extremely limited number of things to actually say about this movie when it comes to its characters. They're hastily-sketched cardboard cutouts whose shortcomings are hidden behind manically exuberant direction, frantic and constant action, and Whedon-esque quips. To a certain degree, the characters in the original movie were the same way, but the difference is that they had an original, well-thought-out story with deep mythical resonance to support them and make them seem both human and larger-than-life at the same time. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Jun 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 05:42
|
|
|
Who said he was likable
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 05:46
|
|
|
Honestly "relatable" is nearing the level of a curse word along with "verisimilitude" for me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 05:50
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:Who said he was likable I certainly never claimed anyone said he was "likable."
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 05:51
|
|
|
Okay, so let me try out this inference thing, please let me know if I'm being a moron. You would prefer people start off hostile and less receptive to you and go through a particular part of an argument over and over again because to do otherwise would make your argument less able to affect change? Am I getting that right? e: Oh poo poo new posts I missed. That question is for SMG. Akett fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jun 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 05:52
|
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:Honestly "relatable" is nearing the level of a curse word along with "verisimilitude" for me. found out another was your cousin, huh?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 05:56
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:Characters are why people fell in love with the series. That's one of the many reasons the prequels fail so spectacularly. The characters are so dull They're constantly spitting out hokey dialogue and the performances are so poor one wonders if the actors had any direction at all. It completely undercuts any emotional pull the prequels should have. Couple all that with the slipshod CG backgrounds and the needless insertion of characters from the OT and it's almost like the prequels are fan films. Everything in them is shoddy by the standards of big budget film making. Just awful awful stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 06:22
|
|
|
I liked some characters from the prequels: lovely Hippie Jedi, Hypocritical Smartass Jedi, Unlimited PAWAH, Robotic Bond Villain and Count Dracula (ok, I don't care much for the good Count, but gotta give props to Christopher Lee here for being Christopher Lee). That's... not a lot. Not that I hated the other character.s But they were a lot more interesting in concept than execution.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 06:31
|
|
|
I like Kylo Ren. But I tend to always like over the top villains.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 06:46
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:I liked some characters from the prequels: lovely Hippie Jedi, Hypocritical Smartass Jedi, Unlimited PAWAH, Robotic Bond Villain and Count Dracula (ok, I don't care much for the good Count, but gotta give props to Christopher Lee here for being Christopher Lee). That's... not a lot. I don't hate every character from the prequels. Ewen's Obi Wan is legit great. And of course Palpatine is a treasure, but everyone else is pretty weak. It's a huge detriment to the series. I mean, if the politics and themes trump that for you, then that's cool.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 08:36
|
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:Honestly "relatable" is nearing the level of a curse word along with "verisimilitude" for me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 08:44
|
|
|
Yaws posted:That's one of the many reasons the prequels fail so spectacularly. The characters are so dull They're constantly spitting out hokey dialogue and the performances are so poor one wonders if the actors had any direction at all. Quite frankly, this is because you are not paying attention. Padme and Anakin, for example, are supremely hosed-up characters in a way that is very clearly laid out. Anakin being way too young for the relationship is set up well in advance, in Phantom Menace. And all the actors do an extremely good job of portraying fascinatingly dysfunctional characters. When you get to TFA, Ray is evidently quite fuckable, but she joins the resistance and becomes a Jedi for no clear reason. She just starts killing people. Kyle becomes her mortal enemy, lifelong nemesis, because... ??? When fans complain about the acting in this way, it's exactly the same as when fans complain about the CGI in a picture of a miniature, without CGI. You are unconvincing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 09:14
|
|
|
In the movie she witnesses kylo killing Han Solo. Also he abducted her and tortured her. These things happened in the movie.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 10:42
|
|
|
euphronius posted:In the movie she witnesses kylo killing Han Solo. Indeed. That is most everything there is to the conflict. I mean, it's kind of telling that their fight and the lead-up to it has minimal dialogue between them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 12:43
|
|
|
euphronius posted:In the movie she witnesses kylo killing Han Solo. Yet another way TFA apes ANH. Both Rey and Luke get way too emotional over someone they've only known for a few hours.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 13:46
|
|
|
Davros1 posted:Yet another way TFA apes ANH. Both Rey and Luke get way too emotional over someone they've only known for a few hours. The difference here being that Obi-Wan was (to Luke) a strange old hermit out in the Dune Sea, but Han (to Rey) was a near-mythical figure she had apparently idolized for some time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 13:53
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:I don't hate every character from the prequels. Ewen's Obi Wan is legit great. And of course Palpatine is a treasure, but everyone else is pretty weak. It's a huge detriment to the series. I mean, if the politics and themes trump that for you, then that's cool. It's not so much that they trump it as I realize movies are made up of different parts which can be of varying quality and so can appreciate movies for different things. Even then I wouldn't rank the prequels as high as the original trilogy, I just don't hate them like some people and find that hate ridiculous and annoying. Phantom Menace is probably the prequel I like the most. Anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 15:08
|
|
|
Davros1 posted:Yet another way TFA apes ANH. Both Rey and Luke get way too emotional over someone they've only known for a few hours. I know you're kidding. We don't really know the exact timeframe of the movie but I'm positive it was over weeks if not months. But having everything spelled out for the viewer is a CineD staple. "Why can't they just show me their motivations instead of having to use my brain hurf durf" 
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 15:53
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:Unlimited PAWAH Phat rear end White Alien Humanoid
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 15:54
|
|
|
PBS Newshour posted:found out another was your cousin, huh? Idgi Are you equating "relatable" with "related"
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 16:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 05:09 |
|
|
Akett posted:Okay, so let me try out this inference thing, please let me know if I'm being a moron. Who cares if some1 doesn't understand what his slogan means, they can read the darn thread!!
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2016 16:41
|
|
