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ungulateman posted:Gul'dan in the original story is murdered (can't recall by who, but I imagine it's either Doomhammer or Thrall) and his skull is consumed by the writer's DeviantArt OC to give him ~demon powers~ to fight demons with I think Sargeras kills Gul'dan in the titual Tomb of Sargeras. Also, the original Lich King, Ner'zhul, was another Orc Warlock, who one of the other big demon leaders transforms into the Lich King after death. He draws Arthas to him, and when Arthas dons the armor that Ner'zhul was imprisoned in, they merge into a being composed of angst and LiveJournal posts. e: also to be fair to Illidan, he probably would have been saved if Tyrande didn't have to explain why she loved Malfurion instead of him through the writing voice of Metzen. The WoW wiki literally explains it better by clarifying that by "true strength," she meant "inner strength that doesn't depend on external validation." Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 01:41
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No Mods No Masters posted:Guldan was eaten by a swarm of random demons when thrall was like 5 years old, RIP to him he was the only good character And then Illidan kept Guldan's skull to look at while chilling in the outlands.
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Jun 18, 2016 02:13
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Tenzarin posted:And then Illidan kept Guldan's skull to look at while chilling in the outlands. "Why? Why does everyone think I'm evil?" roared Illidan, as he drank blood from the Skull of Guldan, much as had drank the demonic power it once held. "Nobody understands me!"
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Jun 18, 2016 02:21
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In the most recent expansion they brought Gul'dan back via alternate timeline fuckery and Illidan is an angel Again I'm not making it up
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Jun 18, 2016 02:45
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high six posted:You're thinking of Kel'thuzad, who is just a human mage/necromancer who the Lich King totally loves and so he makes him into an awesome lich. No trolls included. He slit his throat as a sacrifice to the lich king, in the spot in undead strat where Baron is. 
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Jun 18, 2016 03:19
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Fojar38 posted:In the most recent expansion they brought Gul'dan back via alternate timeline fuckery and Illidan is an angel I can guarantee you that you could say anything about the Warcraft storyline--anything at all--and I will believe you.
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Jun 18, 2016 03:21
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Schwarzwald posted:I can guarantee you that you could say anything about the Warcraft storyline--anything at all--and I will believe you. You fight an evil dragon from the future whose name is one of your friendly dragons' spelt mostly backwards and after you kill him your dragon friend goes 'well at least that's not going to happen for a while' and shrugs it off
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Jun 18, 2016 03:29
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Fojar38 posted:In the most recent expansion they brought Gul'dan back via alternate timeline fuckery and Illidan is an angel To be fair, the entire expansion was about time travel fuckery. Mostly because evidently their world isn't rich enough to provide new interesting characters, so they have to bring old ones back. Ditto for reusing Illidan because they didn't think to come up with a new iconic Demon Hunter before deciding to launch it as a class. Like guys, pay me. I have ideas you can use. gently caress, just pick a random poster here to hire.* *results may be skewed towards ideas based on horror cinema.
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Jun 18, 2016 04:18
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Hodgepodge posted:To be fair, the entire expansion was about time travel fuckery.
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Jun 18, 2016 04:23
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ungulateman posted:You fight an evil dragon from the future whose name is one of your friendly dragons' spelt mostly backwards and after you kill him your dragon friend goes 'well at least that's not going to happen for a while' and shrugs it off the end of the china expansion had one faction raid and capture the others capital and then give it back to them for no reason
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Jun 18, 2016 04:43
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there was a huge ritual that was needed to stop the big expansion threat but everyone stopped in the middle of it to go see Thrall's wedding and then it never came up again
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Jun 18, 2016 05:15
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Fojar38 posted:there was a huge ritual that was needed to stop the big expansion threat but everyone stopped in the middle of it to go see Thrall's wedding and then it never came up again And at the end of the expansion you have to beat up a large molten Dragon tentacle monster in a huge whirlpool.
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Jun 18, 2016 05:26
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Ikasuhito posted:And at the end of the expansion you have to beat up a large molten Dragon tentacle monster in a huge whirlpool. Better than the end-of-expansion-dragon from Wrath
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Jun 18, 2016 06:06
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I love how all talk here has drifted back to the games. This movie is going to be completely forgotten a year from now.
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Jun 18, 2016 09:12
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Bimmi posted:I love how all talk here has drifted back to the games. This movie is going to be completely forgotten a year from now. We can only hope. I want to see more from Duncan Jones. (I can't help but wonder if he wasn't overwhelmed by the size of the project. Moon was a very intimate movie, with a tiny cast).
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Jun 18, 2016 09:29
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The film just got released here in Australia so I finally got to see it and I really liked the first half, got bored in the middle when they clumsily tried to shoehorn in a bunch of character development all at once and was 'meh' about the ending. Whoever said it felt like they'd cherrypicked a bunch of scenes from a season of a TV show and stitched them together to make a film was right. There were wayyy too many main characters for a film and although Durotan and Draka were given a little room to stretch and develop their characters (also Orgrim somewhat) none of the other characters were developed to the point where I cared about what happened to them. Complaints about the end of the film: The biggest flaw in my opinion is that the invasion plot isn't resolved by the end of the film and the conclusions of the various intertwined subplots were badly lacking in urgency and pathos so the entire ending became a plodding, turgid unsatisfying mess. The scene where Khadgar defeats the demon who had possessed Medivh should have been one of the emotional highpoints in the film because one of the least powerful characters in the film is in a desperate fight against the ultimate bad guy behind the entire invasion plot and the fate of the entire world depends on him beating this massively powerful demon and he kills it by pinning it under a bunch of clay. They also should have sold the "Llane leading a suicide charge against a massively more powerful army in a desperate attempt to stop the gate opening at the last second" angle a lot harder but they really pulled the rug out from under it by spending all that time on the Durotan v Gul'dan fight right beforehand. They really should have figured out a way to end both those stories at the same time, possibly by having Durotan sacrificing himself to try and stop the portal opening (but failing) and Llane sacrificing himself to close it. As it was their deaths were pretty pointless and really lacked impact. Having the final climactic fight be a 20 second duel between Lothar and fel-Blackhand just so Lothar could claim Llane's body was a really bizarre choice. Despite all the complaints I've heard about the rest of the film I really think they might have saved it if they'd given the ending more punch.
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Jun 18, 2016 14:38
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https://twitter.com/ChinaBoxOffice/status/743837969300201476
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Jun 18, 2016 16:51
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This movie desperately needed to take things a little slower and actually introduce people to the setting and races in the same way that LOTR did Also there is a such thing as actors older than 35 to play grizzled old veterans This game reeks of "this was made for fans of the game who know all the stuff" instead of trying to introduce a new IP to the world And what idiot was responsible for casting that guy as khadgar And haven't they learned that fantasy movies with american accents sound dumb as gently caress All in all I'm stunned that Duncan Jones made something this sloppy. Why didn't they just look at something like GoT and try to make it as much like that as possible? edit: also the first game made it a point to talk about how the orcs pillaged defenseless human villages but when they tried to siege stormwind and got hosed up hard by 'beasts of muscle and sinew' - they didn't even bother caring about illustrating that and instead had orcs lol'ing all over horses oswald ownenstein fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jun 18, 2016 |
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Jun 18, 2016 18:38
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Axel Serenity posted:I think Jones will be fine, though it may be a bit before a studio is willing to give him $150M again. He's garnered a lot of respect with Moon and Source Code. According to Forbes a bunch of groups shouldered the cost and therefore the risk, so thanks to China it is a mild disappointment and not an outright John Carter disaster It may even get a cheaper sequel. It would need a pretty big overhaul to not suck dick, and they'd probably fast forward to lich king stuff to try and draw in interest
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Jun 18, 2016 19:02
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My review from IMDB http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0803096/reviews-604 quote:
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Jun 18, 2016 20:18
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Enjoyed the movie, shame to see it not do well in the west. It's got some severe pacing issues for sure, but overall I was pretty pleased. I'm a Warcraft fan though. Ramin Djawadi's score is bland, unfortunately.
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Jun 18, 2016 21:23
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Gianthogweed posted:My review from IMDB Yeah I agree with your points but they seriously just hosed up so much that could have been done right Why are the Human soldiers shown to just be a bunch of idiot fodder? Knights were no joke in Warcraft. The Orcs first encounter with them was met with total disaster. If they had just slowed the gently caress down and told a meaningful story of the first war it would have been great, but they went into hyper speed without doing a good job of covering any one thing in particular And that casting choice for Khadgar holy poo poo wtf it's like watching D&D (2000) all over again
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Jun 18, 2016 21:39
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oswald ownenstein posted:If they had just slowed the gently caress down and told a meaningful story of the first war it would have been great, but they went into hyper speed without doing a good job of covering any one thing in particular Good one sentence summary of what went wrong with this movie. Well that and the casting of every single human character.
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Jun 18, 2016 23:01
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Didn't they cut like 45 minutes at the last second?
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Jun 18, 2016 23:04
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I saw this last night and I shamelessly enjoyed it. I would be totally confused though and probably uninterested if I went in knowing nothing about the warcraft universe
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Jun 18, 2016 23:15
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oswald ownenstein posted:
Knights being some shocking super weapon made a ton of sense as a thing to write in the warcraft 1 manual but really just seems like nonsense in the universe every single other thing warcraft has ever made. They just never followed up on the idea that the warcraft universe was super low tech like the first game set up. The orcs knew how to ride a lot more impressive things than horses.
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Jun 18, 2016 23:42
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oswald ownenstein posted:And that casting choice for Khadgar holy poo poo wtf it's like watching D&D (2000) all over again I actually quite liked Khadgar. It was Medivh I thought was terrible. I wonder if the movie would've benefited from starting BEFORE the events of this movie. Showing us things like the burning legion, the titans, the draenei/eradar, Medivh's involvment in getting the Orcs to Azeroth, the Orcs eventual corruption with drinking the demon blood and ending the movie with the Orcs coming through the portal. Warcraft could omit as much backstory as it wanted for me because I know almost everything ahead of time, but as a movie it really needed the worldbuilding that just wasn't there. Or at least figure out a way to summarize all that in the first 10-20 minutes. You really only got the last bit where they go through the portal, and you get very little about Medivh and only a hint at Sargeras. But he's pretty important to all of that. If the movie does end up doing well enough to warrant a sequel I'd love it if they just skipped ahead a bunch and just did Arthas' story. I think it's a really interesting story and has that downer ending nerds love
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Jun 18, 2016 23:51
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It's kinda funny how much people will forgive in the name of "but it's similar to the lore!!!!" it was just a bad movie, even knowing the lore going into it.
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Jun 18, 2016 23:59
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Yeah this movie proves that sticking close to the source material's lore does not a successful movie make.
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Jun 19, 2016 00:21
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quote:but as a movie it really needed the worldbuilding that just wasn't there. Yeah, exactly. It wasn't there in the trailers either. While it may end up doing 'okay' financially, or at least not being an absolute disaster, I don't think anyone can deny that it was a colossal fuckup from a marketing, pacing, etc. standpoint Owlofcreamcheese posted:Knights being some shocking super weapon made a ton of sense as a thing to write in the warcraft 1 manual but really just seems like nonsense in the universe every single other thing warcraft has ever made. They just never followed up on the idea that the warcraft universe was super low tech like the first game set up. The orcs knew how to ride a lot more impressive things than horses. It's still a really cool part of the first manual that should have been captured in any film Orcs rampage unopposed through human villages, arrogantly siege Stormwind itself and get routed hard by armored knights Silly stuff can be cool - 300 did the whole 'stylized' thing well - but this movie looks like it didn't have any one person with a clear vision of how to tell the story Anyhow, a 10 minute walkthrough of what exactly this world is would have saved them a ton of trouble. Narrated by whomever, you'd get a bunch of scenes showing the human kingdom and some stuff going on there, then a bunch of stuff covering the Orc slaughter of the draenei and how gul'dan rose to power Fellowship of the Ring did it, Thor did it to get people up to speed on why a norse thunder god is a super hero, and I can't fathom why people involved with the project didn't think to do this. And of course casting people that aren't 30-35 in all the key roles - even in the first war Lothar was a Barristan Selmy type. And maybe getting some consistency on accents. It looks like they'll pull in enough money to do a sequel but why bother at this point, unless Blizzard has enough pride to fire the writers and put together a better tides of darkness storyline. Would be one hell of a redemption story. oswald ownenstein fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 00:53
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Lothar was a Barristan Selmy type in the second war, not the first war. But yeah, everyone was too close the same age. Lothar and his some were both 30-35ish.
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Jun 19, 2016 00:56
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Gianthogweed posted:Lothar was a Barristan Selmy type in the second war, not the first war. But yeah, everyone was too close the same age. Lothar and his some were both 30-35ish. Second war wasn't that far after the first war though. He was always protrayed as a greybeard veteran
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Jun 19, 2016 01:01
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Famethrowa posted:It's kinda funny how much people will forgive in the name of "but it's similar to the lore!!!!" "being similar to the lore" is a weird defense that makes the movie worse since with each successive game/update the story/world gets dumber and dumber. it might be cool to watch if it was the actual first or second game, not them seen through the lens of wow and poo poo.
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Jun 19, 2016 01:12
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oswald ownenstein posted:
Warcraft has retconned it's history so many times at this point but that just seems like such a weird thing to really cling to. The idea that orcs were at bronze age level technology and would be impressed by horses just isn't even a thing that even lasts consistently through even the first game and just seems like such a throw away concept. It seems like getting mad that they dropped the ultra generic implicit christianity that that the first game had. Like it was barely even a thing.
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Jun 19, 2016 02:09
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Warcraft has retconned it's history so many times at this point but that just seems like such a weird thing to really cling to. The idea that orcs were at bronze age level technology and would be impressed by horses just isn't even a thing that even lasts consistently through even the first game and just seems like such a throw away concept. It seems like getting mad that they dropped the ultra generic implicit christianity that that the first game had. Like it was barely even a thing. I don't care about technology or anything like that - it was about them stomping all over humans unopposed and thinking they were just pathetic weaklings, and then running into horses (something they had never seen before) and described as 'beasts of muscle and sinew' and being completely routed in their attack on stormwind It was just a really cool moment that would have been nice to capture on film IIRC the routing was a huge hit to the morale of the orcs and there was a bunch of infighting blaming eachother for the failure. Obviously they still sacked stormwind in the end and won the first war quote:Following the initial attacks carried out by orcish raiding parties on human farms,[52] the Shadow Council ordered a massive attack against Stormwind City, the capital of the Kingdom of Stormwind. The orcish forces, under the command of Chieftains Kilrogg Deadeye and Cho'gall, expected an easy victory taking into consideration the weak resistance offered by the villages the Horde had already ravaged.[53] The footmen were unprepared as the orcish forces poured through the gates and over the walls of Stormwind Keep. Their guards did well to stop the orcs for as long as they did, but the sheer orcish numbers and strength soon tilted the battle in favour of the Horde. Victory would have been assured, but for the arrival of their great, mounted soldiers. Of course it only works if you're telling it from the Orc POV and the Humans are still kept a little mysterious - if you see the buildup from the human sides it's too much like some rohan charge from LOTR
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Jun 19, 2016 02:54
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oswald ownenstein posted:I don't care about technology or anything like that - it was about them stomping all over humans unopposed and thinking they were just pathetic weaklings, and then running into horses (something they had never seen before) and described as 'beasts of muscle and sinew' and being completely routed in their attack on stormwind
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Jun 19, 2016 03:01
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Fooz posted:Didn't they cut like 45 minutes at the last second? It feels like a lot was cut in order to meet the arbitrary 2 hour mark.
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Jun 19, 2016 03:01
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Doctor Spaceman posted:It feels weird when they've got rideable wolves (capable of carrying an Orc) though. Fewer in number and only the frostwolf clan had them right? I mean it's just my own personal thing I wanted to see in a warcraft movie about the first war because it stuck out at me when reading the manual back in '94
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Jun 19, 2016 03:03
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oswald ownenstein posted:I don't care about technology or anything like that - it was about them stomping all over humans unopposed and thinking they were just pathetic weaklings, and then running into horses (something they had never seen before) and described as 'beasts of muscle and sinew' and being completely routed in their attack on stormwind That just seems so discordant with just anything else ever in warcraft. Like it's not even just that WoW retconned it like most differences are, it's an idea that just doesn't fit with anything in that world ever in any of the games. It really is like being mad they took out christianity because the first game had churches with crosses on them and they were more explicit about demons being in a more traditional idea of christian hell. It just seems like a thing that is just there because no one even thought about what the setting of warcraft even was at that point. Nothing ever in warcraft, not even in the first game indicates the orcs would be impressed by horses.
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Jun 19, 2016 03:31
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In other news: reading the wiki entry on warcraft retcons I learned that the reason they came through that weird pool then later had the big portal is the movie's attempt to fix a weird story thing where the portal in the first game is in a swamp but then in a cliff every single other time it was shown. Someone somewhere must have had that one bit of discontinuity as their one sticking point that needed fixing.
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Jun 19, 2016 03:41
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