|
There sure is a lot of circular reasoning going on with Hillary. She's going to pivot towards the center because she always pivots towards the center. Citation? Oh... *vaguely waves in the direction of the 90's* Third Way Democrats used to be a thing and she was associated with them through Bill, but that wing is about as dead as the blue dogs for the same reason. And as others as pointed out before she just loooooves working with and bending to the will of the Republicans. But hey, don't let that stop the More Liberal Than Thou attitudes, We're going to ride that perfect handbasket all the way down into the corner of continued irrelevance.
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 14:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 05:51 |
|
|
emdash posted:there is some analysis i have not seen before in that article Ah, you didn't catch that gem? http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432876/donald-trump-white-working-class-dysfunction-real-opportunity-needed-not-trump quote:Nothing happened to them. There wasn’t some awful disaster. There wasn’t a war or a famine or a plague or a foreign occupation. Even the economic changes of the past few decades do very little to explain the dysfunction and negligence — and the incomprehensible malice — of poor white America. So the gypsum business in Garbutt ain’t what it used to be. There is more to life in the 21st century than wallboard and cheap sentimentality about how the Man closed the factories down.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 14:24
|
|
I'm not omniscient obv
|
I think the biggest question of the 2016 election cycle is this: How does the American Camping Association have 250k to spend on a guest speaker and what did Hillary Clinton say to them? I imagine most of the speeches are 90% stump "overcoming the odds: Only in America!" pep talks and anecdotes with a little bit customized to the audience, but I have to know what the parts of her speech about how camping can change the world sounded like.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 14:25
|
|
|
Zeno-25 posted:Ah, you didn't catch that gem? haha 
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 14:28
|
|
|
Mr Hootington posted:Up until later in this campaign she had stood ground with a SS position that was to the right of the base. It was inline with what money interests have been pushing for since the 90's. Candidate Hillary =/= President Hillary. What Bernie wants isn't "the base." The "base" of the Democratic party is somewhere in center-ish left (as evidenced by the fact that 'base' voted for her by pretty big numbers compared to his support bolstered by "independents" [read: further left young people who think saying they're 'independent' is a bold, ideological stance and not just them being special snowflake millennials.]) Again, as usual, you don't know what you're talking about on this kind of thing and just make poo poo up. She said she wanted to expand benefits for people, especially for women, who don't ever get credit for domestic work and so end up being screwed when their husbands die (I can tell you all about this, because my mother is having this issue right now.) As usual, you pick and choose what you want to use as a bludgeon against Hillary to make her out to be some kind of evil Republican just parading around. It gets real loving old. Is she Bernie? No, but most people aren't. I think that's what is the most grating about you people. If you don't 100% agree with not only your policy goals but also your specific policy proposal, no matter if they make sense or are feasible, you're an evil person and should be ran out of town on a stick. Mr Hootington posted:Obama was for cutting until a year ago and it would not surprise me that him coming out and talking about it again is an olive branch to the Bernie camp. It was giving her cover so that she doesn't look like she's critiquing his positions. The WH and the Clinton team have been essentially doing that on a number of issues since last year. -- Paul MaudDib posted:The problem is that interview is a Rorschach blot. She covers and denies every single possible position over the course of 10 minutes, you can interpret it any way you choose based on your prior impressions of her. She literally cannot bring herself to just concisely state what her position is. That was more or less exactly what she said? -- In news unrelated to be being baited by Hooting's dead-ender faux-leftism.. Hillary's unfavorables are tracking downward, while Trumps are not. (http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating) (http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/donald-trump-favorable-rating) Even Gravis and Rasmussen, which are both big R polling firms are showing 5-7 point HIllary leads. (http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton) BI NOW GAY LATER fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jun 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 14:38
|
|
|
pumpinglemma posted:(Sanders, whatever his other faults, was fighting for gay rights back in loving 1983.) But not marriage. Bernie was saying no to gay marriage in Vermont explicitly as he fought for civil unions there. He did exactly what Hillary did on that issue for the same tactical reasons she did. http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html Hate both or hate neither for it if logical consistency is important to you. But yeah, you are going to get looked at funny if you give one person a pass on behavior you crucify another person for. Paul MaudDib posted:The problem is that interview is a Rorschach blot. She covers and denies every single possible position over the course of 10 minutes, you can interpret it any way you choose based on your prior impressions of her. She literally cannot bring herself to just concisely state what her position is. How is that not a good thing? You know how the really worrisome part of Kasich was that his policies were every bit as horrible as the other guys on the stage but because he wouldn't openly talk about them he could pass as "the reasonable one" and reach out to independents and moderate Dems? And how his non-confrontational milquetoast demeanor meant he had actually signed pretty horrific legislation into law ... but nobody realized it because instead of going all fire and brimstone on the sluts and the gays he would simply refuse to talk about the laws he'd signed and policies he'd implemented and act confused if people brought them up? How on earth do we know that he's Cruz quality bigotry without the preaching? Oh right. We look at his actions rather than his words. Clinton also has a record of actions that you can use to divine her true sentiments. The activist groups that endorsed her have even done the footwork to verify this so you don't have to. Long before society had shifted enough for her to come out of the closet with her support she was enacting policies to help gay couples. She extended spousal benefits to same sex couples in the state department, for example, and got Obama to do so for all federal employees. She leveraged her position to diplomatic pressure on countries where homosexuality is illegal to change their laws. These things are infinitely more important than giving you a happy sound bite. They make real differences in real people's lives for the better. The point of a politician is someone who goes and makes nice with people we don't like and gets them to do things we want. In order to achieve this they have to make nice with people we don't like. The sound bytes you want would compromise her ability to do that. There is a reason gay rights groups broke for Clinton in a big way and it isn't that they are stupid or corrupt. Trust them to be informed on their respective issues.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 14:57
|
|
|
Re: the NBC article. People say that Trump can't be bought but since he's in the class that traditionally does the buying isn't he really just vertically integrating the process? No reason to lobby if your friend is the politician
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 14:58
|
|
|
Zeno-25 posted:Ah, you didn't catch that gem? Wow, this reads like a Libertarian toward any poor person. "Psh, move around to follow the jobs." It's pretty classicst and isn't funny or helpful, even if it's aimed at the Trumpstaffel.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 14:59
|
|
|
So Trump just lost his campaign manager. Wonder why.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:02
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:So Trump just lost his campaign manager. Wonder why. Which one?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:02
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:Re: the NBC article. People say that Trump can't be bought but since he's in the class that traditionally does the buying isn't he really just vertically integrating the process? No reason to lobby if your friend is the politician And considering that he isn't nearly as rich as he portrays himself he absolutely can be bought.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:03
|
|
|
BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Which one? Lewandowski's out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:03
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/alivitali/status/744892053071396864
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:04
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:Lewandowski's out. This is amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:05
|
|
|
Oh and also the chairman of the Homeland Security committee Rep. McCaul (R-TX) says he's going to take the FBI to task for not taking Omar Mateen's "disturbing flags" (like claiming to be a member of three opposing terror groups at once) seriously and investigating him even more.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:06
|
|
|
Here's the NYT article on it:quote:Donald J. Trump is parting ways with his campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, a move that comes as the presumptive Republican nominee faces challenges as he moves toward the general election. I guess the "let Trump be Trump" playbook wasn't really working out. Let's see how good Manafort is at demagogue transformation.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:09
|
|
|
BI NOW GAY LATER posted:This is amazing. https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/744893804214362112 
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:09
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:Oh and also the chairman of the Homeland Security committee Rep. McCaul (R-TX) says he's going to take the FBI to task for not taking Omar Mateen's "disturbing flags" (like claiming to be a member of three opposing terror groups at once) seriously and investigating him even more. With Benghazi dying down they have to move on to something else to waste time on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:10
|
|
|
Isn't Manafort the one who actually knows what he's doing? Too bad he's not the one who got the boot.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:10
|
|
|
Trump is a moron, water wet, news at 11
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:11
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:Isn't Manafort the one who actually knows what he's doing? Too bad he's not the one who got the boot. That's Paul "National Security Liability" Manafort. He brings all his own sorts of baggage. It's not a great sign for the good guys that the more inept one has been sacked, but we'll see if Manafort's experience with tinpot dictators will help him navigate with Trump. Edit: I love how the campaign's full name seems to now be The Donald J. Trump Campaign for President, Which Has Set a Historic Record in the Republican Primary Having Received Almost 14 Million Votes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:12
|
|
|
BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Trump is a moron, water wet, news at 11 Pro sports has demonstrated forever that you do this poo poo Friday afternoons., it gets lost in the weekend when significantly less people are paying attention to the news.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:13
|
|
|
Wasn't Lewandowski the guy vetting running mates? It also cracks me up to no end that they just had to shove the completely unnecessary 'Trump had the most GOP Primary votes ever!' thing directly in front of the statement like it means a drat thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:14
|
|
|
WoodrowSkillson posted:Pro sports has demonstrated forever that you do this poo poo Friday afternoons., it gets lost in the weekend when significantly less people are paying attention to the news. I remember in The West Wing that C.J. would dump bad stories not only on a Friday afternoon, but for maximum effect, the Friday afternoon before a holiday weekend.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:15
|
|
|
WoodrowSkillson posted:Pro sports has demonstrated forever that you do this poo poo Friday afternoons., it gets lost in the weekend when significantly less people are paying attention to the news. But in pro wrestling, important stuff happens on Monday all the time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:15
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Wasn't Lewandowski the guy vetting running mates? Oh, maybe he was trying to pull a Cheney!
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:15
|
|
|
I just finished that National Review article. He's got a point about small towns. I totally get that not everyone can afford to leave but for whatever reason small town people feel an unreasonable pride in places that are objective shitholes and extremely high dependence of the family. Example: a guy I went to high school with worked at Walmart. He was offered an assistant manager position at a store two hours away. He turned it down because he'd be too far from his family. Two loving hours is not far. It's a really lovely commute daily or you could see your family every weekend if you just moved. Last I checked he was working at Sears and still not a manager. He has not moved upward in 10 years. Maybe I was lucky being from a military but seeing family twice a year is good enough for me. Extended family not even that often.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:16
|
|
|
Taerkar posted:There sure is a lot of circular reasoning going on with Hillary. She's going to pivot towards the center because she always pivots towards the center. Citation? Oh... *vaguely waves in the direction of the 90's* All I'm doing is showing how the people I've encountered at bernie events think, goons. The first Obama administration, specifically things like the Healthcare debate and the grand bargain put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. These people WANT to like Hillary, but they have some reservations. Also, hillary is either the ultimate pragmatist that is going to buckle down and get things done or the Progressive Horseman of the Republican Apocalypse. She can't both be the ultimate politician willing to work with both sides of the aisle AND be the grudge bearer in the forever war republicans have waged on her. I've seen both suggested of her itt and you don't get to have it both ways. Edit: you also have people like BI NOW and fishmech saying stuff like "lol gently caress the progressives they aren't the base" and then some of you wonder why progressives worry about getting left behind and not getting a seat at the table Business Gorillas fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jun 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:20
|
|
|
I was so busy processing the fact that he fired a guy who is almost certain to air some of the shittiest, bloodiest, crustiest laundry ever that I hadn't got to the fact that he loving fired him Monday morning so the news is gonna go ham on this story all loving week. He could have locked Lewandowski in a loving closet for a week and fired him at 5:30 on Friday 7/1 so it got buried but NOOOOOO he bends the gently caress over and drops the god drat soap at like 8 AM on a Monday when everyone else is probably holding onto their news items so they can bury them under the fireworks. Trump is a mess! Trump is a waste.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:24
|
|
|
Do politicians fire their campaign managers after the primary typically or is this just another example of Trump doing his own thing?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:27
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:I just finished that National Review article. He's got a point about small towns. I totally get that not everyone can afford to leave but for whatever reason small town people feel an unreasonable pride in places that are objective shitholes and extremely high dependence of the family. An extra four hours a day means he's gone 12+ hours a day from his family. I can see taking the job if you're single but if you have kids and a wife and like to unwind after dealing with a retail job all day it kind of sounds like his priorities are just fine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:27
|
|
|
BI NOW GAY LATER posted:What Bernie wants isn't "the base." The "base" of the Democratic party is somewhere in center-ish left (as evidenced by the fact that 'base' voted for her by pretty big numbers compared to his support bolstered by "independents" [read: further left young people who think saying they're 'independent' is a bold, ideological stance and not just them being special snowflake millennials.]) Again, as usual, you don't know what you're talking about on this kind of thing and just make poo poo up. She said she wanted to expand benefits for people, especially for women, who don't ever get credit for domestic work and so end up being screwed when their husbands die (I can tell you all about this, because my mother is having this issue right now.) It isn't just Bernie's base that is concerned with SS. The majority of Americans are to the left of both parties and most politicians on this issue. It seems people want expanded SS benefits, the Payroll cap increased, or taxing other sources of income. She has consistently been opposed to two of the three and would consider cutting benefits for younger generations with retirement age increases. I can see a '83 style bargain. Something that wouldn't really matter at the time, but in 15-20 years really hit people. SS needs more revenue and if the politicians can not increase that they are cutting benefits because those who live off social security are not getting the Cola adjuatments they need. Whatever though this will just keep going because everyone has drank the kool-aid of their Jim Jones leader of choice. It is great to see Trump imploding even more.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:28
|
|
|
amuayse posted:Yes this. Mass shootings get a huge amount of press, but most gun crime and deaths are attributed to gangs shooting each other in cities. Would have to overhaul education and labor in those places though. This is patently false. Gang violence only accounts for about 20% of gun deaths and violence. Suicide by white men are the top reason, since if you own a gun you're more likely to shoot yourself than anyone else. Secondly, people really need to stop using Chicago 2016 to make the point of "VIOLENCE IS OUT OF CONTROL", considering its not even at half the levels it was when I was growing up in the Cabrini Green projects. Those years it regularly hovered between 900-1200 murders a year. It was regularly record breaking.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:29
|
|
|
Business Gorillas posted:All I'm doing is showing how the people I've encountered at bernie events think, goons. The first Obama administration, specifically things like the Healthcare debate and the grand bargain put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. These people WANT to like Hillary, but they have some reservations. I am not saying "gently caress Progressives" -- I am saying they aren't the base of the Democratic party which is provably true. That you can't parse the difference in those two statements only highlights why people like myself find ourselves put off by your self-righteous, more-leftist-than-thou bullshit. I am actually on board with the whole of the Progressive agenda, but I don't always agree with Bernie (and his parroting supporters) exact policy proposals. Do I want universal health care? Absolutely. Do I think using medicare is the best way to get there? No. Do I want a higher national min wage? Absolutely. Do I think $15 nationally by like, tomorrow, is a good idea? Not really.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:30
|
|
|
b0ng posted:Do politicians fire their campaign managers after the primary typically or is this just another example of Trump doing his own thing? At this point, it's safe to assume that any resemblance Trump's campaign has to standard procedure for presidential campaigns is purely coincidental.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:32
|
|
|
DemeaninDemon posted:I doubt there's a person here who actually thinks they'll get SS when they retire. Genesplicer maybe? Zoux? That's about it. People have been saying this "we won't get SS when we retire" stuff so long that the phrase is literally old enough to have already retired and started collecting SS for several years itself. Business Gorillas posted:
Uh, "progressives" who whine about identity politics and only care about white men's needs are very much not the base of the Democratic party - considering the base of the Democratic party is minorities and women. Way to melt down I guess? Remember: surveys were done of Democrat primary voters who were Bernie Or Bust - they were majority moderate, followed by levels of conservative, and only then by liberal/progressive as a tiny faction. I'm glad those supposed "progressives" who are really centrists but with whines about free tuition aren't getting a seat at the table! fishmech fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jun 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:33
|
|
|
FetusSlapper posted:An extra four hours a day means he's gone 12+ hours a day from his family. I can see taking the job if you're single but if you have kids and a wife and like to unwind after dealing with a retail job all day it kind of sounds like his priorities are just fine. He was and is single. By family I mean small towns put a TON of value in cousins and uncles and aunts and poo poo like that. Immediate family is obviously a great reason but shooting yourself in the foot for extended family is something I will never comprehend.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:33
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/elongreen/status/684885842368835584 is this the right place to use 
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:34
|
|
|
Business Gorillas posted:All I'm doing is showing how the people I've encountered at bernie events think, goons. The first Obama administration, specifically things like the Healthcare debate and the grand bargain put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. These people WANT to like Hillary, but they have some reservations. worry not, friend. The Democratic Party is a big tent, with room for progressives like you, to pragmatists who care about compromise and getting things (any thing) done, to vindictive folks who want to see republicans squeal, to IR wonks like me, to centrists and what have you. You want your pet policy championed by the candidate, you gotta sell it. Bitching about the existence of other coalitions is not a terribly effective way of doing so.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:34
|
|
Cat Army 
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 05:51 |
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:He was and is single. By family I mean small towns put a TON of value in cousins and uncles and aunts and poo poo like that. Immediate family is obviously a great reason but shooting yourself in the foot for extended family is something I will never comprehend. Then yeah, not only would taking the job make sense, but probably moving those two hours closer. Has any hay been made about Manafort literally being a dictator whisperer? I feel like that is the kind of hire that should be raising a lot more red flags.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 15:37
|
|