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Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
I also like it because it means MORE CANNON FODDER. Rookies for the rookie god.

e: is The Nest mission permanently available?

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Dancer
May 23, 2011
Hey so Iron Rose seems to not be very active in this thread anymore, so I figure this is best as an open question to the thread instead of PM to her. Can someone link me to a primer for modding Long War? I've heard too many bad things about vanilla LW and I don't want to be half-way through my campaign before realizing that I can't stand this grind any longer.

For now my 2nd wave options are as follows:
Dynamic War (to reduce the grind)
Hidden Potential (I like original XCOM style stats)
Wear and Tear (maybe this adds to the grind but I like the idea)
Friendly Skies (I've heard that air game is particularly bad in LW)
Recon (just cuz I feel like it)

Beyond that, no mods installed. Any recommendations are welcome.

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Bogart posted:

Installed a pretty rad mod that adds new mission types? It's pretty rad so far. One I'm playing right now is a VIP rescue, but the wrinkle on top of it is that once you've pulled them out, you have to hold out for eight turns while the Firebrand flies back around. ADVENT gets reinforcements, but so do you. There's some other missions that are kind of lame and 'm not super hot on them, but this one's fun enough that I'd suggest it.

Yeah this mod is tops. There's also a variant Retaliation mission that's just hold the line against waves of aliens and ADVENT with a bunch of rookie backup that you get to keep afterwards.

If the mod author happens to read this thread, I've got an idea for a Council mission: break into an ADVENT MEC factory to install a virus into the mainframe, and then hold out until Firebrand arrives. Every other turn a MEC rolls off the assembly line permanently panicked.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
I will ask Rose to pop through the thread for you Dancer

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Dancer posted:

Hey so Iron Rose seems to not be very active in this thread anymore, so I figure this is best as an open question to the thread instead of PM to her. Can someone link me to a primer for modding Long War? I've heard too many bad things about vanilla LW and I don't want to be half-way through my campaign before realizing that I can't stand this grind any longer.

For now my 2nd wave options are as follows:
Dynamic War (to reduce the grind)
Hidden Potential (I like original XCOM style stats)
Wear and Tear (maybe this adds to the grind but I like the idea)
Friendly Skies (I've heard that air game is particularly bad in LW)
Recon (just cuz I feel like it)

Beyond that, no mods installed. Any recommendations are welcome.



I also had a recommended modlist in the op of the last thread, and I think it was meant to go in the OP of this thread but was lost somehow. Here's the link: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3529135&pagenumber=1040&perpage=40#post448151288

I recommend downloading those mods on the list you find interesting, my other LW mods, and my Easier Long War .ini as well,

Also check this link out: https://www.reddit.com/r/LongWar101/comments/3xuw4j/long_war_101_mods_compatible_with_lw_10/

Both are out of date but generally have some good stuff in them, and I really doubt there have been that many new mods created in the last six months. Check out the Enemy Unknown Nexus' newly released tab if you're really curious I suppose.


Long War is a very customizable mod in a lot of ways. Most variables are exported to DefaultGameCore.ini, and you can change a whole host of things just by editing that .ini file. However, other aspects of the game are hardcoded and are not exported to the .ini, and in order to change them you have to edit the .upk files.

Once you move beyond .ini editing, modding Long War is a gigantic pain and i do not overly recommend it. Nonetheless, here's a couple things to read. The main programs you care about are PatcherGUI, UE explorer (make sure you get version 1.2.6! The link is here: http://eliotvu.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=92), and UPKutils.

Honestly I haven't modded anything for LW in around a year or so, though I will say most basic UPK mods are fairly friendly to savegames, if complicated to make.

The long and short of it is that PatchUPK is windows console application to patch upk files using specific set of commands. PatcherGUI is a GUI wrapper around this utility. Read both UPKUtils and PatcherGUI readme files to better understand what these do.

Modding process of XCOM is not that easy. You Unreal Engine Explorer to decompile scripts and then various patching utilities to change them. UPKUtils allow you to get some low-level information about upk objects, but still you need to understand hex codes in order to write your own upk patches. Read this wiki article about editing upk files, which has almost everything you want/need to know: http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Hex_editing_UPK_files

Anyways basically what you're going to be doing is finding a function you want to change in UEExplorer, dumping it with the hextopseudocode command line tool from UPK utils. For example: you might run:

HexToPseudoCode.exe XComStrategyGame.upk XGFundingCouncil.UpdateSlingshotMission > XGFundingCouncil.UpdateSlingshotMission.txt

This will create XGFundingCouncil.UpdateSlingshotMission.txt with decompiled pseudo-code inside. Open it up in notepad++, set up your ALIASes for easy customization, make your changes in the pseudocode, patch with PatcherGUI, and test.

I recommend taking a look at my Assorted Long War Gameplay Modifications, Customize Unique Soldier Stats, and Customize the Air Game to basically deconstruct your average patchergui mod.

Here's the code for Customize Unique Soldier Stats: http://pastebin.com/rw3Yrp7X - note this is just copied/pasted from the text file in the download, I just want to go through it and it's too large to quote in text.

Anyways, here's the important bits:

code:
UPK_FILE = XComStrategyGame.upk
 
// Zhang
ALIAS= bZhangHP: <%b 05>
ALIAS= bZhangAim: <%b 65>
ALIAS= bZhangWill: <%b 38>
ALIAS= bZhangMobility: <%b 13> // Sets minimum mobility in decimal.
ALIAS= bZhangRank: <%b 0x03> //Sets Zhang's Base Rank. 0x01 default. 0=PFC, 1=SPEC, 2=LCPL, 3=CPL, 4=SGT, 5=TSGT, 6=GSGT, 7=MSGT
//Customize Zhang's Bonus Perk. Default 159 Lone Wolf. ALIAS= bZhangPerk: <%b 159>

...

OBJECT = XGFundingCouncil.BuildMission : AUTO

[REPLACEMENT_CODE]

...

OBJECT = XGFundingCouncil.GiveCustomSoldier : AUTO

[REPLACEMENT_CODE]

...
Now, OBJECT and UPK_FILE are created for you. The UPK_FILE tells patcherGUI what .upk to patch. You can only have one of these in a given text file, as patcherGUI does not support multi-upk editing. This doesn't really matter.

The OBJECT file tells patcherGUI what function to patch. You can have multiple object files in a given text file. ALIASes and other labels and the like do not persist across multiple functions. Note how I have two OBJECT tags in this mod! I'm editing the .BuildMission and .GiveCustomSoldier functions. Now, I want to specify all my ALIASes at the top of the mod so that users (and myself) can edit them easily without having to scroll down to the bottom of what's a very long and complicated looking text file. How do I do that? Simply enough, by ensuring that you write your ALIASes before specifying any specific function to modify. i.e. write them before your OBJECT line, not after.

Anyways, that digression aside, the main difficulty with modding LW upk files is that your pseudocode, while still disassembled, makes heavy use of tokens. Tokens are how unrealscript takes hex code and turns it into actual scripting, a token is one byte in length. Again, reference Hex Editing UPK files for the (scant) information available as to what token corresponds to what. by way of example, if you see 2C in your pseudocode it means that the next byte is an integer, 25 is a "0" token (fantastic for saving space over using 2C and an integer), 0B is a "null" byte (great for using up space), and so on and so forth. You generally want to be quite conservative in how much you're changing the filesize of a function, because that can end up being a huge headache.


By way of example, one of my mods was eliminating the ITZ damage penalty. If I remember correctly, I spent a huge amount of time rewriting the entire function to excise that portion, and more time just overwriting it with null values. What ended up being simplest, and easiest, was just changing a single "greater than" token to a "less than" token, so the function only took off damage if a soldier had less than one kill (an impossibility) in a round. Bad practice for a published product, but for a tweak mod it was the quickest, simplest, and most effective solution.

Another hint, the dissassembled token view option in UE Explorer v1.2.6 will quickly become your best friend. It takes the code you see in the function and, well, disassembles it into hex code. It's remarkably convenient.


you can obviously do lots more stuff than changing a few numbers around, but for the types of changes you're looking for knowing how to change a few hardcoded integers should probably be sufficient. Honestly, the fastest way to figure out how to mod long war is to open up that customize soldier stats mod, open up the functions in question, and then honestly just compare and contrast between the code and the function to see what was changed.

The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jun 20, 2016

matryx
Jul 22, 2005

I think I just had an evilgasm...
Has anyone tried to go for Exquisite Timing with the Alien Hunters DLC enabled?
Did it cause major problems or is that doable?

Seems at a glance like the weaponry might help at the start, but then you're just liable to get massively shafted by the rulers and extra time spent away from the storyline...

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Oh God I feel really bad now. I wasn't asking how to create my own mods, but which mods were recommended to apply. I apologize that your effort-post will be mostly wasted on me (though the first bits are definitely hugely appreciated!).

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
I'm on my way out the door now, but I'll see about digging up the old recommended list from the last thread when I get back. I didn't realize that got missed.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
The .inis are pretty moddable on your own, Dancer, and come with usable instructions for tweaking them yourself. Just open it up in Notepad, give yourself more starting cash, and a million Interceptors with Plasma Cannons, their repair/refit times down to hours instead of days...and a bunch of other ones I fiddled with. It really is quite a user-friendly mod. Even if some of the major change decisions made in the overall are for nutjob masochists.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Coolguye posted:

I'm on my way out the door now, but I'll see about digging up the old recommended list from the last thread when I get back. I didn't realize that got missed.

no worries - i linked it in my above post!


also make your chess move :(


Dancer posted:

Oh God I feel really bad now. I wasn't asking how to create my own mods, but which mods were recommended to apply. I apologize that your effort-post will be mostly wasted on me (though the first bits are definitely hugely appreciated!).


No worries! For applying mods, well, it's still neat to know how they were made, but basically you download patcherGUI and a text file with the code for a given patch and then just run patcherGUI. It's really self explanatory, but if you want more info then just check out reddit.com/r/LongWar101

Shumagorath
Jun 6, 2001
Is line of sight STILL hosed in this game? I took some time off and decided to restart and I still have xrays seeing me through floors i.e. two tiles back from a walled edge and spotting me through heavy cover.

monster on a stick
Apr 29, 2013
You should also add the line of sight indicator to the recommended mods for EW/LW.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

The Iron Rose posted:

no worries - i linked it in my above post!


also make your chess move :(
i did both of these things

though you probably wish i hadn't done the latter

Alkydere
Jun 7, 2010
Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.



Shumagorath posted:

Is line of sight STILL hosed in this game? I took some time off and decided to restart and I still have xrays seeing me through floors i.e. two tiles back from a walled edge and spotting me through heavy cover.

They're both fixed and broken in new and imaginative ways!

Shumagorath
Jun 6, 2001
What about pieces of armour changing in slots other than the one I'm currently choosing? Anarchy's Children props keep showing up when I switch basic parts.

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010
While I sort of get the hate for Anarchy's Children (charging money for something roughly equivalent in content to a mod, when there are already several cosmetic mods out there), am I alone in actually really digging the aesthetic? I like mixing and matching all the various bits and bobs of armor to get that proper 'ragtag band of guerrillas' vibe the game seems to be going for.

I'm on my fourth Commander/Ironman campaign now, and every time a random reaches sergeant I customize them and add them to the character pool. My roster is getting steadily populated with a larger and larger number of bizarre-looking misfits with each defeat and restart, and that's awesome.

I just wish there were more late-game customization options. The later armors get a lot more standardized, so you lose a bit of that ragtag feel.

e: Also, given that the game now includes skull facepaint, a top hat, a cigar, and many different kinds of sunglasses, it's just missing a black dress coat for me to complete a Baron Samedi squaddie.

Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Jun 21, 2016

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
I like the vests and spiked pauldrons. I do not like the bright green mohawk. We're supposed to be guerrillas, sure, but that also means we need to be sneaky, Mr. Sex Pistols.

That Samedi dude looks pretty good tho.

Maluco Marinero
Jan 18, 2001

Damn that's a
fine elephant.
Eh, I think it's fine for what it is, and part of it was code that added flexibility for even more customisation. In a way they were a victim of their own success when it came to making the game moddable. The DLC was always planned, it just so happened that straight out the gate their work on modding yielded lots of hand made and ported cosmetic mods. You can't really hold it against them that modders went to town on the thing.

And the other side is, I get soooo sick of people who bag on the main developers because they didn't do things modders did. The core product has different concerns, and personally I'm very thankful for the platform to build upon.

matryx
Jul 22, 2005

I think I just had an evilgasm...
I think cosmetic mod wise I'd mostly like to see more variety in face shapes.
After a few games you can almost predict what your opening lineup will be.

Bholder
Feb 26, 2013

Bogart posted:

I like the vests and spiked pauldrons. I do not like the bright green mohawk. We're supposed to be guerrillas, sure, but that also means we need to be sneaky, Mr. Sex Pistols.

That Samedi dude looks pretty good tho.

Pink is a default color, even in Xcom1 so seriousness is not an option.

Obama 2012
Mar 28, 2002

"I never knew what hope was until it ran out in a red gush over my lips, my hands!"

-Anne Rice, Interview with the President

Magres posted:


Even with a 100% sword accuracy mod I basically never used swords. If there were some scout ability where killing something with a sword put you into concealment or something, I'd be interested in swords.

It's always seemed strange to me that the key skill for Assault Rangers is only a flat +2 to blade damage that, being a fixed value, just gets less useful over time as enemy health increases. If anything, blade Rangers should get more powerful as the game goes on, not less, to compensate for the exposure their slash 'n dash style makes them vulnerable to.

I tried to brainstorm a few ways they could have been made more competitive:

-Make Reaper damage increase for each consecutive hit, rather than decrease, encouraging players to use the blade exclusively.
-All blade attacks shred armor
-Blade attacks inflict a unique bleed-out status effect on organic enemies that will, given time, kill them off.
-Instead of attacking one enemy, blade attacks can be upgraded to strike ALL adjacent enemies, making Rangers' swords an area effect attack.
-Sword attacks always hit. ALWAYS.

I would be very interested to hear the game devs' reasoning on how the Assault Ranger came to be the way it is, and if play testing led them to decide that was the best build.

teethgrinder
Oct 9, 2002

I'm sure it gets mentioned here from time to time, I'm sorry I haven't kept up with every page.

For some reason was in a weird mood and decided to finally install and check out The Bureau. After the lukewarm reception and some pretty harsh reviews, I'm shocked at how much I enjoy the game. It grabbed me right away with the setting and style. I was a bit frustrated with the battles and squad interface. After a brief learning curve though I really enjoy the fights.

It has great art design and beautiful levels (though the actual play/path through them isn't always awesome). Very Bioshock-like at times which will be a pro or con depending on who you are.

The plot is ... way over-written, and plot sections are way too dense often, and rather nonsensical at times. For the love of gently caress turn on subtitles and right-click to skip through lines as you've read/skimmed them. The pacing is really off too with minor missions varying between like 10-60 minutes, and plot ones can be 45-90 minutes. The auto-save is annoying and it's not always clear when you've saved. So far as long as there's a major setting change (i.e. arriving at base or at a mission) it seems to save even if it doesn't show the icon.

Despite my gripes, I'm finding it to be very fun. I felt overwhelmed with the combat at first, and rather impossible at times, but once I understood how the powers worked better it's become quite trivial. The combinations you can use your troops in is really interesting too. As well, you don't have to actively level the troops/skills you want. Soon into it you can send your guys on missions while you're doing your own operations. They'll level while they're away.

Running around your own Cold War XCOM base is somewhere between neat and tedious. Unfortunately you can't run like on missions

Not really sure how it fits/connects to XCOM1 (despite offering some explanation for The Outsiders), guess I'll see when I get to the end.

edit: for all the similarities to Bioshock, it somehow does audiologs even worse ... you have to stand around and do nothing to listen to them. If you walk away they fade out, or other characters will talk over them.)

teethgrinder fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jun 21, 2016

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Bholder posted:

Pink is a default color, even in Xcom1 so seriousness is not an option.

Pink with sky blue accents, along with gold and royal purple. My preferred mec colors. :v:

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010

teethgrinder posted:

I'm sure it gets mentioned here from time to time, I'm sorry I haven't kept up with every page.

For some reason was in a weird mood and decided to finally install and check out The Bureau. After the lukewarm reception and some pretty harsh reviews, I'm shocked at how much I enjoy the game. It grabbed me right away with the setting and style. I was a bit frustrated with the battles and squad interface. After a brief learning curve though I really enjoy the fights.

It has great art design and beautiful levels (though the actual play/path through them isn't always awesome). Very Bioshock-like at times which will be a pro or con depending on who you are.

The plot is ... way over-written, and plot sections are way too dense often, and rather nonsensical at times. For the love of gently caress turn on subtitles and right-click to skip through lines as you've read/skimmed them. The pacing is really off too with minor missions varying between like 10-60 minutes, and plot ones can be 45-90 minutes. The auto-save is annoying and it's not always clear when you've saved. So far as long as there's a major setting change (i.e. arriving at base or at a mission) it seems to save even if it doesn't show the icon.

Despite my gripes, I'm finding it to be very fun. I felt overwhelmed with the combat at first, and rather impossible at times, but once I understood how the powers worked better it's become quite trivial. The combinations you can use your troops in is really interesting too. As well, you don't have to actively level the troops/skills you want. Soon into it you can send your guys on missions while you're doing your own operations. They'll level while they're away.

Running around your own Cold War XCOM base is somewhere between neat and tedious. Unfortunately you can't run like on missions

Not really sure how it fits/connects to XCOM1 (despite offering some explanation for The Outsiders), guess I'll see when I get to the end.

edit: for all the similarities to Bioshock, it somehow does audiologs even worse ... you have to stand around and do nothing to listen to them. If you walk away they fade out, or other characters will talk over them.)

Spoilers for how The Bureau connects to the rest of the series:

It basically doesn't. The events of the Bureau storyline may have happened, but may not have happened exactly as depicted. The only thing established as canon in the main series is that the original American X-COM organization did exist. It's actually implied that the Bureau ended up being the predecessor to EXALT, not XCOM.

The Bureau's plot has a lot of silly poo poo (the level of devastation they're able to cover up and erase from history is completely ridiculous, and the plot would have worked a lot better if the alien invasion was a bit more subtle than 'full-on apocalyptic-scale invasion'), but overall it's a pretty fun game, and I'll give it credit for having what is legitimately one of my favorite plot twists in video game history.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
I thought that the end mission of XCOM 2 implies that the Commander is possessed by that same rogue Ethereal that's making the protag not suck, but I guess it's vague enough that you could take it in another way. I kinda liked Bureau, honestly. The original hubbub about 3rd person XCOM game looked cool. It was kinda before the whole prevalence of THINKING BLACK GOO as the enemy, so it was pretty rad. I think there's a good sizzle trailer out there.

Also, my Psi-ops always wear bright pink armor. ADVENT will fear the pride parade. :colbert:

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Bogart posted:

Also, my Psi-ops always wear bright pink armor. ADVENT will fear the pride parade. :colbert:

Anyone else have patterns to how they dress their soldiers? Here's mine. For mods I use CapnBub's accessories, Free the Hood, and the Trooper and Leader classes.

Everyone starts with a full face-covering helmet. You get to lose the helmet when you get a nickname.

Troopers keep their helmet, but they can show their face if they want to.

Supports get baseball caps or beanies, often with glasses because of course the dude who hangs out with a robot all day is a nerd.

Grenadiers almost always get ballistic goggles, paired with a bandana, beanie, or helmet.

Sharpshooters usually get a hood, a backwards baseball cap, or the boonie hat. Sunglasses and cigarette optional.

Assaults keep their face covered, but this time it's usually with a balaclava, shemagh, bandana, or the skull mask from Anarchy's Children. If not, they're definitely rocking some garish facepaint.

Psi Ops go hatless. Covering their head ruins their thinking ability, so a lot of them go bald too.

Leaders get a spiffy XCOM beret coupled with whatever else they would normally wear. So if he moonlights as an Assault, for example, he'd wear one in addition to his balaclava and NVGs.

Grognan
Jan 23, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Loel posted:

HOWEVER!

Dont use that mod with Dynamic Stats mod, itll freeze the recruits in place. They make good bait, but not much else.

Stop freebasing mods lowel, this is an intervention.

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010

ninjahedgehog posted:

Anyone else have patterns to how they dress their soldiers? Here's mine. For mods I use CapnBub's accessories, Free the Hood, and the Trooper and Leader classes.

Everyone starts with a full face-covering helmet. You get to lose the helmet when you get a nickname.

Troopers keep their helmet, but they can show their face if they want to.

Supports get baseball caps or beanies, often with glasses because of course the dude who hangs out with a robot all day is a nerd.

Grenadiers almost always get ballistic goggles, paired with a bandana, beanie, or helmet.

Sharpshooters usually get a hood, a backwards baseball cap, or the boonie hat. Sunglasses and cigarette optional.

Assaults keep their face covered, but this time it's usually with a balaclava, shemagh, bandana, or the skull mask from Anarchy's Children. If not, they're definitely rocking some garish facepaint.

Psi Ops go hatless. Covering their head ruins their thinking ability, so a lot of them go bald too.

Leaders get a spiffy XCOM beret coupled with whatever else they would normally wear. So if he moonlights as an Assault, for example, he'd wear one in addition to his balaclava and NVGs.

I dress mine based on background and the personality they generate with (I've got a mod that adds 50-odd new backgrounds, so it's very rare to see soldiers with duplicate bios in one playthrough now). A By-The-Book guy who served in his national military before the invasion gets a standard military uniform with a decent helmet, sensible camo, and not too many cosmetic modifications. A psychotic murderer who escaped from a prison gets whatever outlandish scary getup I'm feeling like giving them, whether than means dressing them up like Baron Samedi or a killer clown or an armored dominatrix or whatever. People with civilian backgrounds go somewhere in between, with mix-and-match gear that sticks to a fairly practical look. Former EXALT guys always get EXALT bandanas, former XCOM guys get the Resistance Warrior armor.

I don't customize anyone until they reach Sergeant, lower-ranked people just get what they spawned in, although I sometimes change the colors to fit our environment better.

many johnnys
May 17, 2015

In EU/EW I color-coded them by class. Heavies were purple, assaults red, supports blue and snipers yellow. MECs don't matter, so usually either black or white. And my psiguys were bright pink!

I haven't been doing the color-coding thing as much in XCOM2 because all the classes are so visually distinct now.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
I always do Grenadiers in Orange, Psi in Brown, Rangers in Red, Specialists in White and Sharpshooters in Purple.

Acessories and outfits vary wildly, but Rangers usually get Shemagh or the like, Grenadiers get helmets, Specialists look like Mad Max refugees, Psi get hoods and rags, and Shapshooters get sunglasses and hair acessories.

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Mister Bates posted:

although I sometimes change the colors to fit our environment better.

Yeah, I almost always switch up the camouflage to match the environment. The Uniforms Manager mod helpfully tells you exactly what tileset your map's going to use, so you aren't stuck in the jungle with your otherwise-badass black and grey digital urban camo.

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010
I had a Ranger get Kill Zone as their AWC ability. I thought it would end up being mostly useless, since it requires both action points and my Rangers are pretty much always mobile.

I was just on a VIP extraction mission that was going poorly. I had the VIP and was on the way to the extraction zone after triggering two pods and a turret at once and getting badly chewed up. No one was dead yet, but everyone was badly hurt and I had no grenades or utility items left. A reinforcement flare popped up, and I was juuuust too far away from the extraction zone to get my whole team out before they got a turn in...but the flare was right next to where my Ranger was, so I popped off Kill Zone and put the cone right over that flare. Next turn, three Advent soldiers drop off the transport, three Advent soldiers proc Kill Zone, three Advent soldiers go down in pools of their own blood. :black101:

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug
I just got this, and god drat, it's much harder than the original. You can do cooler poo poo, though. I just had to extract a prisoner, and instead of going and hacking his door, I went into the building and blew out the wall of his cell with grenadiers, and it was just a one-turn run to the pickup point.

I just wish the avatar project didn't tick up so fast, I like getting to stay and play.

Also there's a shitload of random events. Trying to do a five-day scan feels like it takes a three weeks of Enemy Unknown game time just because I get interrupted every twelve seconds.

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010
This game is repeatedly kicking my rear end and I just do not know what I need to be doing to improve at it. I can consistently make it to late May/early June playing on C/I, and every time (six campaigns now) that's when everything falls apart. It always starts off small - this campaign the downward spiral was caused by losing exactly one member of my A-team (to a misclicked flashbang throw leaving them vulnerable to a grenading). The next-best replacement for my Specialist slot just wasn't good enough to tangle with the kind of enemies the game throws at you by that point (barely a Sergeant, therefore a lot less durable, and lacking the massive hacking skills the last guy had built up). With one weak link on the squad, it was just a matter of attrition after that - I lost my A-team sharpshooter and one of my grenadiers next mission, replacing the both of them with two more sergeants. I attempted a facility raid with the two surviving A-team members (a ranger and a grenadier, both at Lieutenant) and the four B-team replacements, which ended in a squad wipe with zero kills. I'm now going into June and have nothing but squaddies and a couple of sergeants, so it's basically game over - every soldier left on my roster can be reliably one-shotted by anything the aliens are fielding at this point, I've got no skilled hackers, I've got no medics, I've got jack poo poo for armor shred, I've got no suppression, my surviving soldiers can't hit for poo poo, all of my PCS are gone, and I've got basically no special abilities to work with. The squad-wipe also took with it all of my modded weapons, my Mimic Beacons, my Gas Bomb, and one of my flashbangs, so I'm now basically working with plasma grenades and a single flashbang for utility items.

Not only do I not see how I can turn this around, I don't see how it's possible to prevent this downward-spiral poo poo in the first place. The game seems balanced around, A, the player reliably being able to field a full roster at Lieutenant or above by mid-May, and, B, none of those soldiers ever dying. Losing even a single member of your main squad totally loving wrecks you, and without the ability to savescum, it's inevitable that you're going to lose one of them sooner or later. There's gotta be a trick to this but I'm just not seeing it. Even with squad size upgrades and bringing a few newbs along every mission for the experience, there just aren't enough missions in the game for you to train up two full squads' worth of soldiers by the time Advanced Troopers and Mutons start rolling out.

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
The biggest thing that stands out to me is you saying you lost two A-team power classes the first mission out with the new guy, and you seem to be saying that it was because you had a low-level specialist instead of your A-team guy. What do you do when your A-team specialist isn't dead, but is laid up in the sickbay for a week?

It's quite easy to recover from losing a guy, even a high ranking guy, at least on Commander (I can't really speak to Legendary). But you do need to remember that the replacement is not as competent as the old one was, and you do need to play more conservatively instead of making bold plans that assume they'll be able to pull something off.

After wiping your A-team over the course of a few missions then yeah, at that point you're in a bit of a death spiral.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug
The difficulty curve almost feels like Long War. Not quite "Ha, a drone will squad wipe you because flying beats all your cover and makes me hard to hit" hard, but it expects that you beat Classic Ironman already. I have had to do a fair bit of savescumming at this point.

Also, who the gently caress decided to make 360 controllers not work? They were way better than mouse control, by a wide margin, and the UI was already set up. I get that it had a steam controller setup put in as the default, but the steam controller is seriously terrible and no one in their right mind owns it.

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010
I've been able to get by with one or two members of the team replaced by back-benchers in the past, by playing really conservatively (and on one occasion by giving up a mission for lost and bailing out without completing the objective in order to save my team). That was just a really lovely mission - Difficult hostile VIP extraction with the dark event that cuts mission timers in half active. With a five-turn limit to work with, I was forced to play really aggressively; I didn't even bother to capture the target, I just grenaded him and then made a dead run for the extraction zone. I probably would have had trouble with the mission even with my entire front roster on deck, particularly after the reinforcement transport dumped off six troopers between my guys and rescue. That said, if I'd still had that Field Medic skill to patch up my wounded troops before they were forced to run an Overwatch gauntlet to the Skyranger, I probably wouldn't have lost anyone at all (I'd already burned my flashbangs on a couple of pods I didn't have enough time to kill).

I'm getting a little bit better with each failed run; my first seriously attempted Ironman campaign was a total loss by the end of month 1, and that was after a couple of squad wipes and restarts doing the tutorial. I can now reliably make it to the point where the game starts throwing advanced enemy types at you, Shieldbearers and poo poo, and right now I just keep running into a brick wall repeatedly at around that point. It's not always outright deaths; sometimes it's just injuries that can't heal in time for the next mission, resulting in more guys getting injured the next time around, etc., until eventually an important mission pops while every competent soldier in the organization is in a medical bed in the AWC.

And no, I'm not going to turn the difficulty down. It's going to take a few more failed campaigns but I'm not going to let this drat game beat me. :argh:

Tirius
Aug 16, 2007

A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.

Mister Bates posted:

IThat was just a really lovely mission - Difficult hostile VIP extraction with the dark event that cuts mission timers in half active.

Hey, you might already know this, but you can disable that feature of True Concealment. Check out the ini file for it, there is an option.

BurntCornMuffin
Jan 9, 2009


Ugly In The Morning posted:

Also, who the gently caress decided to make 360 controllers not work? They were way better than mouse control, by a wide margin, and the UI was already set up. I get that it had a steam controller setup put in as the default, but the steam controller is seriously terrible and no one in their right mind owns it.

As someone who uses a Steam controller for this game on occasion, I would shoot myself if I had to use a 360 controller. This game has a lot of pointing and clicking, which is one of the things the Steam controller is actually really good at.

I mean, one could do cursor emulation with 360, I've done it in the past, but it really sucks for that. A good decision was made.

BurntCornMuffin fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Jun 22, 2016

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Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.



Grognan posted:

Stop freebasing mods lowel, this is an intervention.

IM ON THE CUTTING EDGE OF SECTOIDTROPICS

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