|
We can't all have nice fancy steels, our club ones are off getting repaired after a pewter tip welded on to blunt it broke. I don't know why they thought it was a good idea either.
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 16:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 18:18 |
|
|
Rodrigo Diaz posted:it can't be as long and thin as those clown rapier of the late 17th c
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 16:27
|
|
|
Rodrigo Diaz posted:Depending on the question it may already have been asked in the Military History thread but you can ask it here too. There's a degree of overlap. I suppose just general impressions. Are the arms and armour appropriate for the setting? The North has a lot of cuir bouilli, while various mails and plates seem common elsewhere. The Boltons seem to have morion helmets, which I thought was many centuries removed from the great helms seen elsewhere on the show.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 16:31
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:The Boltons seem to have morion helmets... 
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 16:38
|
|
|
also for people who might not have thought about this, the more complex your hilt is the more time you will spend sanding and oiling the goddamned thing. Especially if you get rained on at any point. This hilt terrifies me now: http://arms-n-armor.com/rapier151.html
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 17:06
|
|
|
Today I learned the real name of what I always just called conquistador helmets. Thanks thread!
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 17:07
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:also for people who might not have thought about this, the more complex your hilt is the more time you will spend sanding and oiling the goddamned thing. Especially if you get rained on at any point. I groan whenever I have to wash a whisk while doing dishes, I couldn't imagine
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 17:25
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:I groan whenever I have to wash a whisk while doing dishes, I couldn't imagine now imagine it rusts
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 17:31
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:so do you think i can hit a dude in the head with the pommel of my sword, even though it doesn't weigh a whole lot? that is not tankchat Pommel responsibly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 19:57
|
|
|
Pommel to the dome will gently caress you right up, no question.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
I mean, keep in mind that a billiard ball is one of the stereotypical "grab a thing to smack somebody" bar weapon, and it weighs around 6 oz. Your sword weighs about 6 times that, and that's before we factor in that your pommel, probably, has a much smaller surface area on the business end than a billiard ball. So yeah, napkin physics math says that it should gently caress somebody up pretty loving bad if you crack them with it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 20:59
|
|
|
Hazzard posted:We can't all have nice fancy steels, our club ones are off getting repaired after a pewter tip welded on to blunt it broke. WHAT That is the dumbest metalworking poo poo I have heard in quite a while!!! That is extremely dangerous Frosted Flake posted:I suppose just general impressions. Are the arms and armour appropriate for the setting? It's a fantasy setting, they can wear whatever they want. quote:The North has a lot of cuir bouilli, while various mails and plates seem common elsewhere. The Boltons seem to have morion helmets, which I thought was many centuries removed from the great helms seen elsewhere on the show. I mean if you want to start analyzing arms and armor, the helmets on the show are, in the examples I can recall, very loving dumb. Great helms stopped being used during the 14th c, morions don't show up until the 16th. So not "many centuries" but more than 100 years for sure. HEY GAL posted:how much bashing can you do with a 2.4 lb sword, that's not a whole lot of sword This is 2.25 lbs. http://arms-n-armor.com/rapier219.html Your sword is fine, stop fretting. Rodrigo Diaz fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jun 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
Rodrigo Diaz posted:I mean if you want to start analyzing arms and armor, the helmets on the show are, in the examples I can recall, very loving dumb. Great helms stopped being used during the 14th c, morions don't show up until the 16th. So not "many centuries" but more than 100 years for sure. I always groan when someone fights a duel with their visor down. That is a really good choice if you don't want to see poo poo while fighting, and getting winded as fast as you can. Also, the swordplay on the show is subpar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN30YMzja6Y
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 21:36
|
|
|
That's the kind of thing I was wondering about. Did the morian, for instance arise because of specific circumstances, or because of fashion? If it was developed because of the push of pike or terico, then it doesn't seem to fit in. If it was fashionable, I don't suppose they is any reason why it wouldn't exist in the world of GoT. Of course it's just fantasy. Is there anything in the arms and armour that stands out as being very good or bad to you? The mongol stand-ins using khopesh instead of bows sticks out to me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
Speaking of bows, the Bolton archers seem to use some sort of bamboo backed bows, that remind me of Yumis. Gotta ask Koppedrayer if he supplied them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 21:41
|
|
|
You unscrew the pommel and throw it at your opponent:
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 22:26
|
|
|
Kemper Boyd posted:I always groan when someone fights a duel with their visor down. That is a really good choice if you don't want to see poo poo while fighting, and getting winded as fast as you can.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 22:29
|
|
|
Rodrigo Diaz posted:This is 2.25 lbs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 22:30
|
|
|
Rodrigo Diaz posted:WHAT Thank Mr Danelli. Aside from this work on the point, the sword is wonderful.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 22:31
|
|
|
Hazzard posted:Thank Mr Danelli. Aside from this work on the point, the sword is wonderful. send me your address and i'll goddamn mail you some blunts that don't fit me, jfc
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 22:37
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:That's the kind of thing I was wondering about. Did the morian, for instance arise because of specific circumstances, or because of fashion? I would expect it to be a combination of both, but I don't really know, not my period. quote:Is there anything in the arms and armour that stands out as being very good or bad to you? The mongol stand-ins using khopesh instead of bows sticks out to me. I haven't looked at the show in a year or so but everyone's swords are too big. Also Jon Snow's sword pommel looks like a free toy you'd find in a box of cereal. And like Kemper says the sword fighting is extremely bad. Hazzard posted:Thank Mr Danelli. Aside from this work on the point, the sword is wonderful. Are you sure he put pewter on there? Because that seems like the kind of idiot move that someone who hasn't worked with steel before would do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 22:37
|
|
|
This is second hand from our kind-of teacher, but he took the steps to the guy who fixed the black fencer hilts. This smith said the blunted tip put on was pewter, so now they're on a plane to Ukraine to get fixed. Now this could all be wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 22:41
|
|
|
This is very confusing because Marco Danelli is by all accounts an experienced smith and HEMA person who lives in London.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2016 23:24
|
|
|
Could there be another Danelli working, or someone using his name to get work they shouldn't?
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 00:01
|
|
|
hazzard, what--in as specific terms as possible--did they tell you? Siivola posted:This is very confusing because Marco Danelli is by all accounts an experienced smith and HEMA person who lives in London. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Jun 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 00:03
|
|
|
Kemper Boyd posted:I always groan when someone fights a duel with their visor down. That is a really good choice if you don't want to see poo poo while fighting, and getting winded as fast as you can. I agree with you 100% on your intent, but you picked possibly the least lovely fight to prove your point. Like yeah it's not good. But there are some bits that aren't entirely stupid (the general idea of a lightly armored opponent exhausting someone ; actually showing cutting around armor rather than just whacking, e.g. cutting at the knees and armpit ; using the environment to "cheat" an opponent). I will not defend the scene as good or anything, but it's pretty baseline Movie Sword Fights Suck (This Is Why We Love Rob Roy). Now compare that to this far more representative bullshit : https://youtu.be/CY-b4inDAPQ The fight you list is just using lazy visual story-telling tropes and not being realistic. This is just straight up, skilled swordsman = twirls. (Again : not defending the show's fights, I actually think they totally suck, I just think you picked one of the worst (or better??) examples and undermined your point.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 00:08
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:Movie Sword Fights Suck (This Is Why We Love Rob Roy).
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 00:14
|
|
|
Kemper Boyd posted:I always groan when someone fights a duel with their visor down. That is a really good choice if you don't want to see poo poo while fighting, and getting winded as fast as you can. I can see that being done by a dork who's only ever fought in the field, or doesn't have confidence in their skill in not getting hit. I'm no swordfighting expert, but I guess even if the moment-to-moment actions are kinda dumb, the overall idea behind that fight is sound? The dude without armor is better off using his mobility to his advantage and letting the dude with armor tire himself, while the armorless dude looks for a good opening. I'm not sure how exactly those couple of slashes took down the dude with armor though, running the blade over the armor shouldn't do much, unless there's no chainmail or anything beneath the plate armor to guard against a simple cut? What a dork. Also the hole in the floor seems like a dumb feature for the duel. If you've got dudes fighting each other with swords, than I'd expect most of the harm that comes to the your swordfighting dudes to come from sword-related reasons as opposed to a lack of OSHA standards. Also it brings to mind a lot of weird engineering questions as to how they have a room that big made entirely of stone that high up with apparently no support from below, unless the hole is some kind of warp portal or some weird thing, I don't know anything about Game of Thrones lore.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 04:40
|
|
|
The armoured man is outrageously clumsy and never even tries to use his shield. The hole is perfectly reasonable. All it needs is some sort of dome structure to support it. It's called an oculus, and it was no big deal with Medieval architects. The most famous example is the Pantheon, which isn't even Medieval, it's Roman. That oculus is like 10m wide, the GoT one is bit smaller. Anyways, you're supposed to feel a little disgusted by the little boy and his mother sitting on the throne. The whole duel is extrajudicial, the defending party is innocent, and everything is staged to entertain a overcoddled child. There's no better way to convey sybaritic rulership than a duel to the death over a sarlacc pit.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 05:44
|
|
|
Yeah, but there very clearly isn't a dome or anything like that supporting the room, because there's no shadow being cast by what any sort of massive domelike structure, and there's even a goddamn forest directly beneath the building, which either means that that there's some kind of bizarre arboretum being maintained within the castle walls, or the whole room is on some weird outcropping off to the side of the supporting structure rather than being supported on all sides. And then on top of all of that, this big ol' fancy chamber is high enough that there are clouds passing beneath it. If it weren't supposed to be a medieval setting, I'd guess that they were all in a giant blimp.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 06:15
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:sword small https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYNy_drriXs
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 06:48
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Yeah, but there very clearly isn't a dome or anything like that supporting the room, because there's no shadow being cast by what any sort of massive domelike structure, and there's even a goddamn forest directly beneath the building, which either means that that there's some kind of bizarre arboretum being maintained within the castle walls, or the whole room is on some weird outcropping off to the side of the supporting structure rather than being supported on all sides. And then on top of all of that, this big ol' fancy chamber is high enough that there are clouds passing beneath it. The idea of a very high up room (Not a very large room actually) with a hole in the floor is perfectly reasonable. It looks like this.  The dome only bears the weight of itself, and the floor of the room above it. If the supporting walls are ludicrously strong (As they tend to be in fantasy lands), they don't even need to fully enclose the structure. I'm somebody could have sat down and calculated the exact camera angles needed to preemptively silence nitpickers, but that's a big waste of time imo. The castle was built in the mountains, on top of very conveniently shaped rocks, which is why it's so tall.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 07:33
|
|
|
Personally I think it was a magic room floating above some valley. Or the moon door is a magic portal.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 07:41
|
|
|
Must be a pretty drafty place to live.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 08:04
|
|
|
Xiahou Dun posted:(Again : not defending the show's fights, I actually think they totally suck, I just think you picked one of the worst (or better??) examples and undermined your point.) I picked it because while it's a good scene overall, the actual sword swinging is still bad. I'd argue too that the whole thing with "unarmored opponent exhausting armored opponent" thing you often see in pop culture is a crock of poo poo, because the unarmored guy can't get hit while the armored one can actually take hits and take it easier. Funny enough, there's a scene in GOT that gets this right, the dishonored knight fighting one of those Dothraki dudes with his armor on. But yes, Rob Roy owns, and it's understandable that a TV show doesn't have the time to train every actor in swordfighting, and so on and so on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 08:33
|
|
|
Rodrigo Diaz posted:This is 2.25 lbs. http://arms-n-armor.com/rapier163.html and this one http://arms-n-armor.com/rapier169.html complete length 113 cm / 44.5" length of blade 93 cm / 36.5" width of blade at base 2 cm / slightly over 3/4" i wanted something classier than the usual soldier bullshit and that's what that is, but i think my next one will be a cut-and-thrust sword, like i hate the quillions but you could goddamn wreck a dude with this: http://arms-n-armor.com/rapier164.html  HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Jun 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 10:37
|
|
|
Kinda wonder how many workhours these higher quality blades are? I've been thinking about prices for bows and noticed that people use all kinds of tricks to cut down hours. Doing them the authentic way is just completely uneconomic. Can't charge for +150 hours on a living wage. Just a few people will buy that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 12:05
|
|
|
the solution (on the consumer end) is to never go out to eat, never go to parties, buy used clothing, and spend all your money on early modern weapons and gear obviously
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 12:08
|
|
|
SlothfulCobra posted:Also the hole in the floor seems like a dumb feature for the duel. If you've got dudes fighting each other with swords, than I'd expect most of the harm that comes to the your swordfighting dudes to come from sword-related reasons as opposed to a lack of OSHA standards. Also it brings to mind a lot of weird engineering questions as to how they have a room that big made entirely of stone that high up with apparently no support from below, unless the hole is some kind of warp portal or some weird thing, I don't know anything about Game of Thrones lore. In the books, that hole in the floor is a door that opens onto nothing, to execute people by pushing them out of it. The castle is just built on top of a mountain with no gravity defying architecture. It's pretty much a fantasy Neuschwanstein. JaucheCharly posted:Must be a pretty drafty place to live. There's fluff about the castle being mostly ceremonial and vacated in winter, because it's too cold. Everyone moves to a bigger but less fancy castle at the foot of the mountain.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 12:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 18:18 |
|
|
Nobody reads the last post on a page
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2016 15:03
|
|