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Ashcans posted:'I am a dumbass who didn't tell you important things' Its this Sansa is a moron. This is the kid who ratted her dad out to Cersei so that she could marry Joffrey we're talking about here.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:20
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Elias_Maluco posted:The only way I can make sense of this is: The last one is the one that I see most likely because Littlefinger is a manipulative poo poo.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:23
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Hollismason posted:The last one is the one that I see most likely because Littlefinger is a manipulative poo poo. Yeah, I think is both actually (Sansa think he is not coming and he decides to come by surprise to be a hero for her)
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Jun 20, 2016 21:25
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In lot of ways this is all Bran and Sansa's fault. Does Bran remember seeing Jaime loving Cersei? I can't remember.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:25
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Seemed to me that the preview implied we're going to get an explanation next week anyways so,
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Jun 20, 2016 21:25
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It also works in his favor as well if he waits because Jon would be killed Rikon ? would be dead so that'd leave him to finish off Bolton's army then retake Winterfell for Sansa which would probably without Jon there end up with them married.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:26
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Solice Kirsk posted:In lot of ways this is all Bran and Sansa's fault. Does Bran remember seeing Jaime loving Cersei? I can't remember. Pretty sure the fall made him lose his memory of that event. Though I would have liked to see 10 year old Bran trying to explain what was happening. He probably doesn't understand what sex is yet. "He was kind of standing behind her, and they were pushing into each other, and they were making weird grunting noises."
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Jun 20, 2016 21:26
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WampaLord posted:Pretty sure the fall made him lose his memory of that event. That works out well for him. Though at this point it doesn't even matter. Maybe he'll time travel back and check it out. You'd think that would have been one of the first things he'd want to see.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:28
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I'm pretty sure we are going to get a Sansa vs Jon conflict about the role of actual ruler of the North, with Littlefinger telling Sansa that she is the trueborn Stark and Jon is only her bastard half-brother (remember his quip in Moletown?). They are going to splice that conflict with the ToJ scene, to make the Northern plot really centered around Jon's heritage.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:35
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chilihead posted:Remember a well written show lets the viewers figure some things out for themselves. It was my understanding that at least half of those Calvary were the mercs that deserted Stannis. They left the but remember they were in a foreign land. Ramsey probably offered them food,shelter and gold to fight for him before they went home. Seems obvious to me. Literally every time Ramsay gets half the army to desert, kill the other half, and then he kills the deserters himself. Those mercs are dead.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:37
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kickascii posted:God, yes. I've spoken with a few different people this morning about this episode and several people have the notion that Sansa has now matured and is making things happen for the Starkes. uh she's up against people with armies and since she doesn't have one herself she has to rely on other people supplying her with one. How is she supposed to solve the particular problems she has without help? She can either go hide or convince people to fight for her. She chose the latter and was ready to die if it didn't work. I really don't see what else you could expect of her. Now she has a castle, land and some power. Obviously the true test is if she can use that for her own ends but I think it's pretty clear the show is setting her up to be a force to be reckoned with.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:40
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Anos posted:Now she has a castle, land and some power. Obviously the true test is if she can use that for her own ends but I think it's pretty clear the show is setting her up to be a force to be reckoned with. She doesn't have any of that, Jon is gonna be named king in the north.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:42
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That the Bolton phalanx remained relatively unfazed by the giant isn't that strange. Roman phalanxes, which this one was clearly based on, were drilled to deal with surprises and insane charges, knowing that so long as they didn't break their formation, they had a decent chance of winning. Also, the Bolton troops are relatively seasoned soldiers, having presumably fought in Robb's campaigns as well as against the Ironborn and Stannis.Kopijeger posted:Another little thing: Theon and Yara are still wearing the same costumes they had at the Kingsmoot. Not only would those probably be uncomfortably hot in the warmer climate of Slaver's Bay, but they are also wearing their chest plates even though they are not expecting to fight anyone. From a few pages back but Jorah also had the same mangled, dirty outfit on for three seasons. This guy must have a BO that can kill.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:45
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the jizz taxi posted:That the Bolton phalanx remained relatively unfazed by the giant isn't that strange. Roman phalanxes, which this one was clearly based on, were drilled to deal with surprises and insane charges, knowing that so long as they didn't break their formation, they had a decent chance of winning. Also, the Bolton troops are relatively seasoned soldiers, having presumably fought in Robb's campaigns as well as against the Ironborn and Stannis. There is a fairly big difference in being charged by crazy human opponents and being charged by a legendary creature.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:52
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True but rules say you can only have one legendary creature of the same name on the battlefield at all times, so it's manageable
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Jun 20, 2016 21:53
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the jizz taxi posted:True but rules say you can only have one legendary creature of the same name on the battlefield at all times, so it's manageable are you telling me Dany cheats with her three dragons?
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Jun 20, 2016 21:58
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Atreiden posted:are you telling me Dany cheats with her three dragons? They each have different names. 
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Jun 20, 2016 22:07
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The other TV IV thread was pretty funny last night. This thread is so calm and normal in comparison.ZeeBoi posted:Also a lot of you are insufferable shitheads, I'm so glad I don't have to actually discuss this show with you in person because holy gently caress I'd want to dunk your nerd heads into a toilet Na'at posted:Twice. For a pedantic learning machine I'd expected more accuracy. The point is not that Jon is an idiot or dumb for reacting in an emotional way when his youngest brother was shot in the back by a twisted sociopath before his very eyes. Frijolero posted:I can't complain about bad writing, but you can complain about dog physics? counterfeitsaint posted:Jesus Christ, usually I can at least get to Monday evening but you loving autistic shits have ruined the thread just hours after the best loving episode finished airing. You all loving deserve the misery you apparently experience watching this terrible show. counterfeitsaint posted:Lady Mormont and the wildlings fighting with Jon was also some god awful deus ex machina guys, it ruined the show. I mean sure, they had been traveling with Jon for awhile, and they had all agreed to fight with him, but they saved him so it was deus ex machina. That's what those words mean. No really. Wait wait wait, Dany has dragons now? Dues ex machina. Just awful. Plus all those guys on horses, also dues ex machina, where did they come from? Zaphod42 posted:Pretending everybody who disagrees with you is autistic is a really loving lame excuse, but you know you can't defend the cliche poo poo so that's what you do over and over. Anybody who disagrees with you is autistic! You're right and the whole loving thread is a bunch of spergy nerds!!!!
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Jun 20, 2016 22:10
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I like the idea of Sansa withholding the information from Jon in order to use his army as bait to draw Ramsay's army out from the safety of Winterfell. She had to have known Jon has got that Stark honor thing going on and would refuse to put people's lives at risk to draw out Ramsay's army and would have insisted on waiting for the Vale to arrive. At which point Ramsay would not have left the safety of Winterfell and given them the opportunity to take his army by surprise and destroy it. It's a cool and dark turn for Sansa and I hope there is a conversation that makes it clear this was her thought process. It gives her character some real agency and the choice to withhold the information some meaning. There's a line in the preview for next week where Jon tells Sansa "we need to trust each other," so hopefully this is where Jon asks her why she did not tell him about the Vale's imminent arrival.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:10
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Vegetable posted:Worth restating that she had no guarantees the Vale Knights were coming. It'd be classic Littlefinger to arrive only after the battle ends. This and people ignoring that Jon would've just blind charged anyway, so instead of the full force of the Vale steamrolling an already battled army, the alternate oucome would've been sending the Vale army into the meat grinder with everyone else. Those horses would've been destroyed by Ramsay's bowmen. But keep using phrases like "mental gymnastics" if it makes you feel smart on the internet.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:17
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threeagainstfour posted:I like the idea of Sansa withholding the information from Jon in order to use his army as bait to draw Ramsay's army out from the safety of Winterfell. She had to have known Jon has got that Stark honor thing going on and would refuse to put people's lives at risk to draw out Ramsay's army and would have insisted on waiting for the Vale to arrive. At which point Ramsay would not have left the safety of Winterfell and given them the opportunity to take his army by surprise and destroy it. Agreed - if they reveal that this was her thought process and she actually had a reasonably complex plan in place. However, if they just ignore it like Sansa talking to Jon about being rezzed, Arya's stab-n-twist gut wounds, etc. then it is just another bit of dumb writing that people seem desperate to twist into Dark Sansa. Remember when she was pretending to be Littlefingers daughter or whatever and dressed and dyed her hair dark and everyone was like "ooh sansa getting her game of thrones on now!!!" but all she ended up doing was getting raped by ramsey and needed to be saved by reek? Yeah, that.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:23
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"Actually, it's better for a military commander to have less information rather than more information" - multiple people in this thread
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Jun 20, 2016 22:32
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El Hefe posted:She doesn't have any of that, Jon is gonna be named king in the north. I don't know the books and stuff so if you say so... I have no idea idea what Sansa - and Arya when she shows up - will be doing then. If the show runners don't give them power and purpose then they'll... chill in Winterfell forever after while Jon defends the North from whitewalkers and douchebag southern kings? It just seems you could do more with the Stark girls dealing with their kingdom while Jon is berserking on the wall. Or rather 500 yards in front of the wall and his army.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:38
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So the shot from the season trailer of the dragons breathing fire in the pit never actually showed up this season? Was it possibly the same shot from last season when Dany feeds that dude to the dragon?
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Jun 20, 2016 22:39
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Linguica posted:"Actually, it's better for a military commander to have less information rather than more information" - multiple people in this thread It is if he's a poo poo commander and you need him to overextend his forces so that the opponent will expose his flanks to your reserves. Sansa had all the intel and had rather accurate notions of how the battle will develop based on the likely actions of both Jon and Ramsay, the actual commander on the field knew what she was doing.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:42
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Anos posted:I don't know the books and stuff so if you say so... In the books Jon just died and Sansa is still in the Vale. Most of this season is like that.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:48
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I want more Davos+Tormund conversations in the future.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:49
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Everyone in this thread should be medicated.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:51
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My assumption was Arya arrives in King's Landing and starts killing Lanisters until she hears about Jon and Sansa. Maybe she offs Kevan instead of Varys. I don't want to get into much more on Sansa's "plan" but its unreasonable to expect Littlefinger to get a letter back to her. The birds go to places not people and Jon, Sansa and Davos are travelling from castle to castle. If he sends a raven to every castle he's just going to tip off Ramsay because some of those houses are going to side with him. But its not unreasonable to make a guess about when he should arrive assuming he got the letter sent to him because I think I recall him telling Sansa where he had his army. Maybe tell Jon he shouldn't engage till a bit after Littlefinger should have arrived. Cause even if she did make that judgement and decided she wanted the wildlings and her vassals diminished Littlefinger could easily get held up a day along the way in which case Sansa is dead or captured, again. Although now it occurs to me that Sansa might think Jon is such a loving idiot she shouldn't let him know Littlefinger is coming to help because he will attack early to avoid having his help or maybe attack Littlefinger for betraying his father. That's going to be an awkward conversation next week. Goofballs fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jun 20, 2016 |
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Jun 20, 2016 22:51
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If Sansa had told Jon about the Vale knights then yes, it would've made more sense for her character but would've vastly reduced the tension (even with a twist that you could see from a mile off) If a TV show or film goes out of its way to show you a battle plan, it's only so that you know the plan's going to poo poo
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Jun 20, 2016 22:59
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Hollismason posted:Yeah, Littlefinger doesn't seem to be the guy you want to rely on. You can rely on Littlefinger if you look just like a younger version of your mom he carries a huge torch for.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:39
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The battle was really cool. Everything's pretty much been said I would've wanted to say. Just wanted to point this out. If all the ducks are in a row next season, we'll have the Iron Islands, Dorne, King's Landing, and The North all ruled by women at the end of the series. Assuming of course there's a King's Landing left at the end of the season. Also, I made a prediction a while back that Dany would threaten the entirety of the Dothraki hordes to stop raping/raiding/pillaging/sacking people by tipping over a brazier and the whole of the Dothraki gulp at once since they know she means business. Looks like she did as much with the Iron Islanders so I was half right
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Jun 20, 2016 23:42
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threeagainstfour posted:I like the idea of Sansa withholding the information from Jon in order to use his army as bait to draw Ramsay's army out from the safety of Winterfell. She had to have known Jon has got that Stark honor thing going on and would refuse to put people's lives at risk to draw out Ramsay's army and would have insisted on waiting for the Vale to arrive. It was all entirely a show conceit, so any thought put into rationalizing it in character is more thought than D&D put into it. They just wanted a dramatic arrival when all hope seemed lost and they wrote events to that end without bothering to put any real thought into why the characters would act that way. That's not really their thing. Jeyne Poole was a character D&D didn't feel like dealing with, so Sansa had to become her instead of staying in the vale and becoming a Littlefinger protege. It didn't really matter that this decision made Littlefinger look like an idiot who was entirely willing to marry off Sansa to a psychopath unknowingly, despite having been established as being an incredibly well-informed schemer previously. It didn't matter that it robbed Sansa of her intrigue training, making her a credible junior schemer as she'll doubtless end up in the novels. Book Sansa almost certainly is the one who convinces Robin and the Vale knights to march to Winterfell, so she doesn't need to mope about berating Jon for not planning properly while neglecting to tell him about the impending army arrival. Didn't we already establish after the Arya sequence that the most obvious answer is the correct one in the show? Yes, it's really Rickon and Shaggydog. Yes, Davos really entreats the priestess he hates to just rez Jon. Yes, the pink letter is real. Yes, the Umbers really are signing up to support Ramsay. And yes, Sansa neglected to tell Jon about the army possibly arriving not because of some Machiavellian strategy to kill off the Wildlings, or to keep Jon from squandering the Vale Knights, or to let Jon and Rickon get killed to ensure her succession, but simply because she didn't know for certain that they were going to arrive, exactly as it appeared she didn't.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:44
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Did the spoilery shot from the trailer showing Jon riding into battle on horseback happen at all in this episode? From what I remember he got off his horse like a goober pretty quickly and never used another for the remainder of the battle.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:46
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I think the obvious question is, what's Roose's master plan? He ultimately planned to get stabbed to death and have Ramsay gently caress over the entirety of House Bolton. What's Roose's end-game?
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Jun 20, 2016 23:47
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MrSlam posted:I think the obvious question is, what's Roose's master plan? He ultimately planned to get stabbed to death and have Ramsay gently caress over the entirety of House Bolton. What's Roose's end-game? The hounds are just peeling off Roose's Ramsay skin suit. The Roose is loose.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:50
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Sansa-dumbness aside, that really was a great episode. The battle scenes were seriously amazing. I loved seeing horses smash into people around Jon - it felt really chaotic and brutal and terrifying. I wish they put that much effort into the script. I kind of respect just how much they stopped giving a poo poo about travel times. Theon and Yara being in Mereen already is hilarious and makes it seem like Dany could have gone to Westeros and back dozens of times with a few ships and just fox-chicken-grain'd her way to the Iron Throne.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:52
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Ague Proof posted:The hounds are just peeling off Roose's Ramsay skin suit. This would be the finale to end all finales. It really was satisfying to find Ramsey in a situation in which he didn't come out on top. His 20 good men has finally abandoned him.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:55
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To be fair distances really are a massive corner the GRRM wrote himself into. I'm not sure saying lol gently caress it they arrive is the right way out but they had to do something.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:55
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Cool battle, shame about the rest of the episode. Sansa's getting a bit too into the violence I think. Anyway I'm surprised people still think there's going to be some master plan going on considering how blatant the show is. Anyway here are my stupid bullshit predictions, lets see how many of them come true; Arya kills the Freys, probably Walder Frey himself. Jon Snow becomes some kind of leader but not the king of the north because Davos and Tormund made it clear they are loving tired of kings. Sansa probably buggers off and marries Balish now or some dumb poo poo. They'll probably off the red witch now because she set a kid on fire. Then the season will end with the mireen ships sailing.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:58
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