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GAINING WEIGHT... posted:I honestly don't know how it's possible for someone to miss the point with such consistency. I both applaud and pity you. Fight the good fight. 
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Jun 21, 2016 15:50
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Ograbme posted:Does God feel guilt? God was human only once. Also sedan I don't dwell on it because it seems pointless to dwell on another life when I have so much more of my current one ahead of me. Get back to me in 50 years.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:17
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Crowsbeak posted:God was human only once. Also sedan I don't dwell on it because it seems pointless to dwell on another life when I have so much more of my current one ahead of me. Get back to me in 50 years. Why would you assume you have even a minute left? You don't think about Heaven because you don't believe in it.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:19
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GAINING WEIGHT... posted:I honestly don't know how it's possible for someone to miss the point with such consistency. Uh the fact man uses free will to commit evil does. Sorry you can't deal with it. At who what as I said I thought I should act like you. An rear end in a top hat. Also Sedan that only works on Calvinists. Btw gaining weight thanks for showing your true intentions. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 16:19
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Crowsbeak posted:Also Sedan that only works on Calvinists. You are awfully incurious about the structure of the world you supposedly believe in. Beliefs are a play thing for you.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:35
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see though what about if someone has a seizure and it results in a car accident or someone has a psychotic break and commits evil through no fault of their own. Could you just answer that loving question please? Because there is a lot of suffering that isn't free will related despite free will only existing when you believe in it. How about evil that comes about from ignorance? Is human ignorance adopted freely? Wait no, it would be better if you demonstrated that thing you do where you ignore any and everything that might lead you to question your beliefs and grow as a human being. Its just great how you smugly assume everyone debating you is part of an atheist gang and it couldn't possibly be that you have the world view of an adolescent or prodigious child. As other posters have said, you're a boring pedant and won't actually engage in debate because you don't believe a word of what you're saying. Maybe you'd like to believe in something but know you're too much a fucker for a kind god to give a gently caress about.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:37
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SedanChair posted:You are awfully incurious about the structure of the world you supposedly believe in. Beliefs are a play thing for you. No Calvinists are the only Christians who by their very give a poo poo about if they go outside and have a bus hit them. Also I think it's time the majority of atheists here answer a question. What makes you so mad that people believe in God or Gods?
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Jun 21, 2016 16:39
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Crowsbeak posted:Uh the fact man uses free will to commit evil does. Sorry you can't deal with it. At who what as I said I thought I should act like you. An rear end in a top hat. Don't know that I was ever obfuscating my "true intentions", but you're welcome? I'm going to be relentless here because I think there is an answer to be had, even if I have to drag it out of you. Okay, you're still breezing by the actual substance of my question, so let's approach it a different way: which of the two scenarios do you think will exist in heaven? Is there no free will, making us praise-drones, or is there free will but somehow still no sin or evil? Okay, NOW. With whichever one you've picked: why can that not be instantiated here on Earth? Please answer both parts of my question. Thank you.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:42
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There is free will and people through knowing God do not commit evil. This is a whole part of Christian Dogma from its begining. Now answer my question. What is your problem with religion. Because it is very obvious you and the majority of atheists here post these threads to try to "teach" us theists.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:46
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aaaaahahahahaaaa you don't get to ask questions until you answer the ones put to you but let me give you a preview: they don't, you're just an idiot who thinks god is up there keeping track of your masturbation slip ups, while watching his free-willed flawed creations murder and rape each other (which he feels real bad about letting us do to ourselves while he lets out an omnipotent sigh 'but it was the only way...'), as well as a best selling author (and one time human). It's offensively stupid like any cult belief and the smarm and bullshit lingering around it makes it all the worse. Everyone who isn't coddling your just world fallacy is part of the big meanie atheist gang. No one even wants to touch your theology they just want you to admit that free-will isn't a cop out for the presence of arbitrary evil and suffering in the world. What about the suffering when you lose someone you love? Should you have chosen not to have loved them so much? Or do church goers have that kind of self control that they can just free-will themselves into complacence with heaven talk? That, by the way, is what sickens me about people like you. Your existence is more hollow for your dogmatism. You can't love as truly. You can't pity as deeply. EDIT By the way, why do you like Trump so much? He's a real ringer for Christ in terms of ideals I tell ya what. You have every indication of being a husk. Stinky Wizzleteats fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 16:52
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Ah nice to know you are to cowardly to answer. But then you are illustrating why this thread inevitably turned into r/atheism .
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Jun 21, 2016 16:57
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Crowsbeak posted:No Calvinists are the only Christians who by their very give a poo poo about if they go outside and have a bus hit them. What are you talking about? Why would you assume that your life will be long? quote:Also I think it's time the majority of atheists here answer a question. What makes you so mad that people believe in God or Gods? That's not what makes me mad. What annoys me is you, specifically, and your refusal to admit that you don't actually care about the specifics of belief because you don't have any of it.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:58
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Crowsbeak posted:There is free will and people through knowing God do not commit evil. This is a whole part of Christian Dogma from its begining. Now answer my question. What is your problem with religion. Because it is very obvious you and the majority of atheists here post these threads to try to "teach" us theists. I don't care if you believe in God or not. What annoys me is your inability to answer a question. Edit: SedanChair continues to be a national treasure.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:03
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Well I a tally do sedan it's just that you are mad my belief doesn't pigeonhole me. It's really obvious you atheist ls in these threads just want them so you can have a circle jerk while all the theists will be stereotypical yec biblical literalists who you can show are all wrong because how can the bible be right. Or else if they had a religious experience they must be mentally ill. You don't like that when people won't be pigeonholed and will also call you out. Sorry if we won't play ball.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:03
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Crowsbeak posted:Well I a tally do sedan it's just that you are mad my belief doesn't pigeonhole me. It's really obvious you atheist ls in these threads just want them so you can have a circle jerk while all the theists will be stereotypical yec biblical literalists who you can show are all wrong because how can the bible be right. Or else if they had a religious experience they must be mentally ill. You don't like that when people won't be pigeonholed and will also call you out. Sorry if we won't play ball. Are you drunk-posting?
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Jun 21, 2016 17:06
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Crowsbeak posted:Well I a tally do sedan it's just that you are mad my belief doesn't pigeonhole me. It's really obvious you atheist ls in these threads just want them so you can have a circle jerk while all the theists will be stereotypical yec biblical literalists who you can show are all wrong because how can the bible be right. Or else if they had a religious experience they must be mentally ill. You don't like that when people won't be pigeonholed and will also call you out. Sorry if we won't play ball. No, I've pigeonholed you. There's already a pigeonhole for "bigot who aligns with Christianity for cultural reasons, but doesn't believe in God."
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Jun 21, 2016 17:08
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Crowsbeak posted:There is free will Prove it. Edit: Crowsbeak posted:Well I a tally do sedan it's just that you are mad my belief doesn't pigeonhole me. It's really obvious you atheist ls in these threads just want them so you can have a circle jerk while all the theists will be stereotypical yec biblical literalists who you can show are all wrong because how can the bible be right. Or else if they had a religious experience they must be mentally ill. You don't like that when people won't be pigeonholed and will also call you out. Sorry if we won't play ball. I think you need to step away from the computer until you calm down enough that you can type straight. If you're so angry you can't even make coherent sentences you aren't in a good place, it's not healthy. 
Who What Now fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 17:10
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Crowsbeak posted:Ah nice to know you are to cowardly to answer. But then you are illustrating why this thread inevitably turned into r/atheism . Holy poo poo dude, it's been what, 20 minutes since you posted? Crowsbeak posted:There is free will and people through knowing God do not commit evil. This is a whole part of Christian Dogma from its begining. Now answer my question. What is your problem with religion. Because it is very obvious you and the majority of atheists here post these threads to try to "teach" us theists. Okay, but I am under the impression that most Christians also adhere to the doctrine that all men are sinners, even the most pious of saints. So just knowing God does not seem like enough of a condition to prevent evil (surely you would not try to argue that all evil in the world is committed by non-Christians?). Does something change in us at the moment of death? Are we transformed in some way so that we are no longer capable of performing evil? And if so, why not make us this way during our time on Earth? As for the second question, this thread is overtly about epistemology; calling reasons for belief into question is sort of the point. I'll engage with any poster who props up an argument with facile reasoning, theist or not - see earlier in this thread where I defended the Christian arguing that the Bible condemns homosexuality.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:14
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GAINING WEIGHT... posted:Holy poo poo dude, it's been what, 20 minutes since you posted? Yeah I laid out that knowing God isn't going to church its putting others before yourself, its not being violent its accepting all your wrongs. Also death doesn't stop that as others have pointed out my position is held in the Orthodox church and by some Catholics even those in hell can be saved as the new earth, which is not heaven will always have its gate open. Also the fall has ensured we cannot be that way. So nothing changes after death and the judgement just that we will all finally realize our faults and come to be with God. Now I want the Atheists here to answer the question why do you not like religion. As most of you obviously have some major problems with it or you wouldn'tpsot in these threads and declare theists to be mentally ill.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:24
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Crowsbeak posted:Now I want the Atheists here to answer the question why do you not like religion. As most of you obviously have some major problems with it or you wouldn'tpsot in these threads and declare theists to be mentally ill. I haven't declared any theist to be mentally ill, and I like most of them just fine. But I do care about people having consistent beliefs, because I think it's in everybody's interest to be consistent.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:27
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Crowsbeak posted:Yeah I laid out that knowing God isn't going to church its putting others before yourself, its not being violent its accepting all your wrongs. Also death doesn't stop that as others have pointed out my position is held in the Orthodox church and by some Catholics even those in hell can be saved as the new earth, which is not heaven will always have its gate open. Also the fall has ensured we cannot be that way. So nothing changes after death and the judgement just that we will all finally realize our faults and come to be with God. Yeah, this is where I don't really understand your worldview. Do you agree with the doctrine that all men, including all Christians, are sinners? With the exception of Christ himself, obviously. If so, is your position that no one gets into heaven? That's not a doctrine I'm familiar with. I mean, you seem to be arguing that those who "know God" (which I take to mean being a Christian, or perhaps being the right kind of Christian) will do no evil, despite their free will. But no one does no evil here on Earth. That's why I asked if something changes on death, since there is evil on Earth, but supposedly none in heaven. quote:Now I want the Atheists here to answer the question why do you not like religion. As most of you obviously have some major problems with it or you wouldn'tpsot in these threads and declare theists to be mentally ill. I assume you're no longer addressing me, since I haven't called anyone mentally ill. But just in case: I am engaging with you because your reasoning seems faulty, not because of the side of the issue you happen to be defending.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:42
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Crowsbeak posted:Yeah I laid out that knowing God isn't going to church its putting others before yourself, its not being violent its accepting all your wrongs. Also death doesn't stop that as others have pointed out my position is held in the Orthodox church and by some Catholics even those in hell can be saved as the new earth, which is not heaven will always have its gate open. Also the fall has ensured we cannot be that way. So nothing changes after death and the judgement just that we will all finally realize our faults and come to be with God. So, nobody said that religious people were mentally ill. What was said is that people who have visions and hear voices may be mentally ill and are probably mentally ill if they are recurring, even if those visions and voices are religious in context. The claim that hearing voices and seeing things that aren't there is not mental illness, or just some neurons misfiring or a mental hiccup at the very least, if those voices and visions are religious is just nonsensical. I don't have a personal axe to grind with religion. I've flirted with religion and spirituality a few times in my life. I just think it's silly, in the 21st century, to say to yourself "I believe in X and I believe it 100% true and I also believe in this book that is the rules and stories of X" despite the fact that those rules, words, and stories have been translated, rewritten, changed many times over to the point that if they were the word of god or an array of gods, we wouldn't know because humans have had their hands on them and put their own spin on them for so long. It's also silly to be dogmatic and adhere to a particular religion when many others are doing the same for their own different religion. I generally just have an ax to grind with the type of person who says "Christianity/Islam/Judaism is 100% true and all other religions are false!" but it's a very small ax, a hatchet really. We just know a lot more today than when various religions initially propagated. It makes it tougher to take it all seriously once you know any history, science, anything. Like, how anyone looks at the history of Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses and doesn't put them in the same bin with Scientology is beyond me. More modern religions boil down to "A guy claims a thing, tells others said thing, gets followers, makes money." People making poo poo up, claiming divine inspiration, and then getting rubes to follow them is not a template for a civilized society. Abrahamic religions get more of a pass because they have been around so long we don't know as much about the people who started them and propagated them. That being said, I have no problem with some non-dogmatic belief structure where people believe in a spiritual force that created the universe and governs all things. I don't see why it's necessary to have a fulfilling life but that's not for me to decide for people. Whatever gets you through the day.
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Jun 21, 2016 18:56
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Crowsbeak posted:God was human only once. Also sedan I don't dwell on it because it seems pointless to dwell on another life when I have so much more of my current one ahead of me. Get back to me in 50 years.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:11
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aaaaaand this is why I gave up on the thread. It started out as a nice idea where people could share personal stories about why they believe. Then it steadily decayed into a giant argument about why someone else should or shouldn't believe. It is one thing to answer honest questions for information or to share personal stories, but when was the last time an atheists or theists changed their opinion based on arguments on SA?
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Jun 21, 2016 19:15
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Griffen posted:It is one thing to answer honest questions for information or to share personal stories, but when was the last time an atheists or theists changed their opinion based on arguments on SA? Pretty often, it just takes time for the arguments to settle in. Who better than goons to strip away the concept that anyone can be saved?
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Jun 21, 2016 19:18
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Crowsbeak posted:Well in our current form it is impossible because we choose to ignore God. You're still missing the point. If God was the one who created us and was also omniscient, he made us in such a way that he knew most people who go "astray." Free will does not necessitate "people will do bad things"; there are many factors that lead to people doing bad things that go beyond what most consider "free will" (for example the fact that people living in poverty commit more violent crimes, for a variety of reasons). I think part of the problem is that, ironically, you're thinking of God in the same way we think of other humans. It isn't so simple as God just giving humans free will and letting them run wild; an omniscient God, from the very moment he considered creating humans, would know the outcome (and is thus responsible for the outcome, unless you admit that God was limited in his creation). i'm emphasizing this point only because I feel that it's a very fundamental logical contradiction. You simply can't simultaneously hold the assumptions that 1. God is omniscient, 2. God was fully responsible for the creation of humans and, being omnipotent, could have created them in any number of ways, 3. God is not responsible for the harm caused by humans against other humans, and 4. free will exists (the last two assumptions are actually not really needed together and have more of an "and/or" relationship). These assumptions, combined, lead to some huge contradictions. If you disregard these assumptions then there's no longer a contradiction.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:41
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*parachutes into Rwandan genocide* YOU'RE NOT IGNORING GOD ARE YOU?? LOOK AT HIS BOUNTY ALL AROUND YOU
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Jun 21, 2016 19:49
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Griffen posted:It is one thing to answer honest questions for information or to share personal stories, but when was the last time an atheists or theists changed their opinion based on arguments on SA? More often than you think, I'd wager. And in general D&D changes people's minds fairly often. For example, I used to think I was a good poster.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:36
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Lampsacus posted:EDIT: Christ, there is no way Crowsbeak isn't trolling. Especially the part where he says those in hell can be redeemed. That's some gnarly theology bro. He is obnoxious and appears to be training for Point Missing at the upcoming Olympics, but as others have mentioned there are schools of thought that don't view Hell as permanent damnation. Hell, I've seen it posted here before under the guise of "Hell is a prison locked from the inside" arguments, though I find all the ones I've heard so far theologically suspect, and likely owing more to people of good will trying to square their personal faith with some of the more uncomfortable bits of scripture and doctrine.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:24
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Nearly everyone I've ever met, and certainly myself, seems to operate largely in terms of some illusory, narrative-driven egocentric construct. Theists as a class have never seemed to me unique, or even especially egregious in that regard. I find the handful of explanations of belief in this thread fairly interesting, but trying to tease apart spiritual puzzles with propositional calculus is less to.
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Jun 22, 2016 04:21
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SedanChair posted:Yeah but to me that only answers the question "why do you want to believe in Jesus?" Of course you want to believe in Jesus, he's a great guy. But the real question we want the answer to, concerns that last little rejection of the need to understand whether what you believe is real; that's the gap I still have to cross in getting to understand a Christian's mindset. But its not a jump to "and I think it is real". I don't have that certainty, not anymore at least. The jump is to: I'm willing risk how I will try to live out my life, by basing it on this above every thing else. Being wrong would mean an increasing separation from reality over time and the distortion of my actions into something ugly and harmful. In spite of that risk, when I look at the example of Jesus, I still think that example is worth dedicating my existence too. That means Savior and Christ are still symbols that are adequate to express this. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 05:21
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Crowsbeak posted:No Calvinists are the only Christians who by their very give a poo poo about if they go outside and have a bus hit them. Also I think it's time the majority of atheists here answer a question. What makes you so mad that people believe in God or Gods? Believing in Gods doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, I see no real reason why one should exist, nor any evidence to suggest one does. Faith to me is more superfluous than anything. I can't say I've ever felt much need to believe in God so I just... don't. Belief in god is... weird but fine I guess. Though it tends to come packaged with some pretty objectionable opinions regarding a bunch of other stuff which makes me kind of annoyed, but that's not really the god part that's doing it, it's the "and so I will start prescribing everyone else's life" part that's not really integral but, alas, is often present. I mean I do disagree with you regarding the fundamental nature of the universe, that's going to be a major feature of our conversation about religion. I also don't understand why you believe in god because as I said, it doesn't at all make sense to me. But that you hold the belief sincerely is OK in itself. But I do feel compelled to point out what appear to be logical inconsistencies. In part because I'd really, really like a good answer to stuff like the problem of evil. Because if someone could answer that it would really change my view of religion, it'd make it a lot more understandable. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 06:55
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Crowsbeak posted:Now I want the Atheists here to answer the question why do you not like religion. As most of you obviously have some major problems with it or you wouldn'tpsot in these threads and declare theists to be mentally ill. I hope this is in the spirit of what the OP intended; this story isn't why I'm an atheist, but I think it hits a nerve about it. Primo Levi was an Italian Jew who spent the winter of 1944-1945 as a guest of the Third Reich, with all that entailed. In the middle of that winter, there was a selektion, as the Germans called it (and the Germans certainly need no explaining!). The Germans made the prisoners wait hours, huddled in the front of the barracks that was their housing, and then run, naked, in front of what was purportedly a medical officer (and being that these were Germans, we may be sure some manner of medical degree was involved), for them to inspect the emaciated and starved prisoners. To select those who would live to work another day (again, Germans...) and who would go into the chimney. Needless to say, mister Levi survived that selection. He also over-heard another survivor, once it had become clear who would labour another day and who would go into the chimney tomorrow, praying loudly. An elderly Jewish man, who had for some reason or another been chosen as one of the survivors. He was loudly thanking his God, over and over again, for sparing him, for letting him live. For not letting the Germans pick him, as his fellow bunk mates had been picked, to go into the chimney tomorrow. You understand? That the selected bunk mates also heard him? Primo Levi thought, if he were God, he would spit on such a prayer. And so would I.
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Jun 22, 2016 08:20
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Rappaport posted:I hope this is in the spirit of what the OP intended; this story isn't why I'm an atheist, but I think it hits a nerve about it. Nah, my dude, God has a plan and had those Jews been Christians such a fate surely would not have befallen them. /s
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Jun 22, 2016 14:55
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Tim Raines IRL posted:Nearly everyone I've ever met, and certainly myself, seems to operate largely in terms of some illusory, narrative-driven egocentric construct. Theists as a class have never seemed to me unique, or even especially egregious in that regard. This feels like a warmed-over version of the "atheists need faith too!" argument. I don't have the patience to argue about whether or not people tend to "operate largely in terms of some illusory, narrative-driven egocentric construct(s)", but I will say that even if this argument were true, it certainly wouldn't render such beliefs inscrutable. In any other domain, it would be reasonable to expect one to strive for a certain degree of correspondence between one's conceptual framework and the world itself, and to adjust the former accordingly wherever it comes into conflict with the latter. If I have the economic belief that high taxes are an impediment to growth, then I shouldn't be surprised to find myself called to account for this belief where the world fails to evince such an assumption. I'd say it would be an act of intellectual cowardice if, when taken to task on this assumption, I were to simply throw my hands up and say, "well, it's only an illusory, narrative-driven egocentric construct, stop taking it so seriously!". If this is a cowardly argument in the context of an debate about economics, it's no less so in the context of a debate about religion. Ideas have consequences, none should be placed beyond reproach. (If this was more of an argument about our foundational beliefs lacking any absolute epistemological justification, then a similar argument applies. Just because we have foundational beliefs which lie beyond any absolute justification, that is not to say that all epistemological assumptions are equally justifiable. One "illusory, narrative-driven egocentric construct" may be more apt than another depending on the relevant circumstances.) quote:I find the handful of explanations of belief in this thread fairly interesting, but trying to tease apart spiritual puzzles with propositional calculus is less to. I don't think that's what's happening here at all. I think people are taking Crowsbeak to task more over the lack of internal coherence of his beliefs, rather than over his spiritual assumptions. On the free will debate, for example, the question of what happens to free will in heaven, given the assumption that God desired to grant humans free will on Earth, is an entirely valid one. If free will can be used as a legitimate explanation for evil, then it must also account for free will (or lack thereof) in heaven, where evil presumably no longer abides. If the two cannot be squared, then garden-variety logic suggests that at least one of the assumptions should be jettisoned. Setting aside problems of empirical correspondence, I should think that the threshold of internal coherence is one that everyone should be aiming to clear if they wish for their ideas to be taken seriously. (And if they don't care about having their ideas taken seriously, what are they doing making posts on here in the first place?)
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Jun 22, 2016 16:14
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Blurred posted:This feels like a warmed-over version of the "atheists need faith too!" argument. I don't have the patience to argue about whether or not people tend to "operate largely in terms of some illusory, narrative-driven egocentric construct(s)", but I will say that even if this argument were true, it certainly wouldn't render such beliefs inscrutable. In any other domain, it would be reasonable to expect one to strive for a certain degree of correspondence between one's conceptual framework and the world itself, and to adjust the former accordingly wherever it comes into conflict with the latter. If I have the economic belief that high taxes are an impediment to growth, then I shouldn't be surprised to find myself called to account for this belief where the world fails to evince such an assumption. I'd say it would be an act of intellectual cowardice if, when taken to task on this assumption, I were to simply throw my hands up and say, "well, it's only an illusory, narrative-driven egocentric construct, stop taking it so seriously!". If this is a cowardly argument in the context of an debate about economics, it's no less so in the context of a debate about religion. Ideas have consequences, none should be placed beyond reproach. That's why these discussions are impossible and devolve into slap-fights. It comes down to "I believe it hence it is true" versus "If it is true I will believe it." These are incompatible terms on which to have a discussion. Theists will even argue that simple notion, the idea that for them truth follows belief, "I KNOW it is real" they will say. We live in completely separate cognitive universes. Also, trying to apply logic to or expecting internal consistency from something like religion is fairly fruitless. There are a lot of incentives to being religious even if you take faith out of the equation - community, meaning, belonging, comfort - especially if you live in certain parts of the USA or certain parts of the world. There's a whole lot you don't need to decide for yourself if you're religious - I don't mean that in a "lol sheeple" way - it's comforting to go through life knowing you are doing the right thing as long as you hew to a certain set of rules and standards. Religion isn't the only thing that can impart that feeling but it's frequently what does. If you're religious there's a fairly strong mental bias against rejecting theism even if some arguments appeal to you because often times you're not only giving up your faith but everything else that goes with it which can be a LOT for some people. Many posters can and have attested to the fact that rejecting religion in a very religious household in a religious part of the world can be traumatizing and devastating. It's much easier to just conform. Huzanko fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 16:51
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Noam Chomsky posted:We live in completely separate cognitive universes. We all get to choose how we interpret our life in this world. Call it ideology, narrative, the object of fath, whatever. You have one too, and when you make statements like this one you acknowledge it. As a Christian I get to interpret the world in this way: every person is a brother or sister of Jesus, a child of the Father, and my brother or sister. I've always had other people trying to convince me to interpret the world in the way they do. The danger inherent in all of these interpretations is that we can lose ourselves in them and detach from reality in harmful way. We don't get to not interpret the reality we live in. Well, at least while we are alive. It is deeply hypocritical to pretend away the risks inherent in this, risks that we can't escape by virtue of existing. Moreover, Christianity by its cosmology of angels and demons and Word and flesh, can use all of the other interpretations (when they lead us to the real) and put them aside when they separate us. Christianity and its cosmology allows for the use of any of these illusory narrative driven concepts and for the rejection of those concepts when they are distorted and depart from reality. Anything I find the truth inside of I can believe in and when it claims to be the only and exclusive truth I can kick it's rear end to the curb. It's rather quite the opposite of how you characterize it. And how you think it should be, actually is culturally Christian.
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Jun 25, 2016 17:07
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BrandorKP posted:We all get to choose how we interpret our life in this world. Call it ideology, narrative, the object of fath, whatever. You have one too, and when you make statements like this one you acknowledge it. Noam Chomsky posted:Theists will even argue that simple notion, the idea that for them truth follows belief, "I KNOW it is real" they will say. We live in completely separate cognitive universes.
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Jun 25, 2016 17:12
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Noam, you're a bit daft. And the assumptions you apply to the category "theists" are not universal to those of us with faith. They are also not essential to religion.BrandorKP posted:I don't have that certainty, not anymore at least.
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Jun 25, 2016 17:22
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Crowsbeak posted:Now I want the Atheists here to answer the question why do you not like religion. As most of you obviously have some major problems with it or you wouldn'tpsot in these threads and declare theists to be mentally ill. Which reason would you like? I dislike the bible itself because I've actually read it and found its contents horrifying. I dislike the way people read and interpret the bible because they more often than not cherry pick passages to justify what they already believe. IF they bother to read the bible at all. I dislike the organizations that form around these interpretations because they're petty, cruel, and usually more concerned with attacking their perceived enemies than doing any actual good in the world. I dislike the way people interact with these organizations because most just view church as a big social club and don't actually care what it does or who it hurts. And I dislike the way these people interact with society at large because they're often insufferable pricks who force all this medieval bullshit on the rest of us. It's terrible at every level is what I'm saying. Also I don't think the religious are mentally ill and like posting in religion threads because arguing is fun. 
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Jun 25, 2016 18:23
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