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The most fun part of a bitcoin hack is always the people going 'nice job, thief  now can I please have my money back?' 
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Jun 20, 2016 08:52
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no offense but why do people still care about this
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Jun 20, 2016 09:26
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Debate Me Please posted:no offense but why do people still care about this Because idiots are funny
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Jun 20, 2016 10:27
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Debate Me Please posted:no offense but why do people still care about this I'm honestly fascinated by this enormous shared delusion, which appears to be somehow transmissible between individuals. Infectious thoughts are extremely interesting!
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Jun 20, 2016 10:48
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Debate Me Please posted:no offense but why do people still care about this none taken
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Jun 20, 2016 11:27
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2016/06/16/canada-has-been-experimenting-with-a-digital-fiat-currency-called-cad-coin/#eda9ed41b0c4 I've seen some bitcoiners talk about this but not too many. Possibly because the banks have very clealy said this will be an experiment in bank to bank transactions and will not be available to the general public.
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Jun 20, 2016 11:40
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Laputanmachine posted:http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2016/06/16/canada-has-been-experimenting-with-a-digital-fiat-currency-called-cad-coin/#eda9ed41b0c4 Right now, in the US at least, a lot of the established banks and financial institutions are afraid of being disrupted by emerging disruptors in the fin-tech world. Stuff like Venmo, Facebook/Google payments, and just about anything that takes a piece of the action away from them is seen as a huge threat. So a lot of them are "experimenting" with blockchain right now, though I haven't seen anyone really *do* much of anything with it. It's mostly a "let's throw some resources at this for a couple of quarters so we can at least say we tried" type of exercise. It's a relatively low-cost way to grab some headlines and pump up some powerpoint slides, but those proposing that blockchain has a place in supporting the daily workings of a bank has no idea the transactional throughput of a bank nor the inability of a blockchain to handle anything even remotely approaching that scale.
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Jun 20, 2016 13:15
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Blockchain principles as they currently exist have no place in the banking system. If you truly believe your bank should engage in irreversible transactions with parties that it doesn't fully trust, you should probably close out your bank account and kill yourself. But since the general public doesn't understand either blockchains or this very basic principle, it's probably a good idea to just throw around the idea of doing blockchain stuff so you can seem hip and with it and whatever
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Jun 20, 2016 13:21
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is it fair to say that what bitcoin is most useful for is, showing the many ways a system like this can go horribly wrong?
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Jun 20, 2016 15:11
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The only useful thing to be had from the blockchain is a detailed record of every transaction, which banks already have. They also don't share your account balance ("anonymous" or not) with everyone on the internet.
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Jun 20, 2016 15:45
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Debate Me Please posted:no offense but why do people still care about this i'm mostly here for the destruction of other people's lives as an american if i can't get my fix one way i'll get it another
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Jun 20, 2016 17:08
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an AOL chatroom posted:Right now, in the US at least, a lot of the established banks and financial institutions are afraid of being disrupted by emerging disruptors in the fin-tech world. Stuff like Venmo, Facebook/Google payments, and just about anything that takes a piece of the action away from them is seen as a huge threat. So a lot of them are "experimenting" with blockchain right now, though I haven't seen anyone really *do* much of anything with it. It's mostly a "let's throw some resources at this for a couple of quarters so we can at least say we tried" type of exercise. It's a relatively low-cost way to grab some headlines and pump up some powerpoint slides, but those proposing that blockchain has a place in supporting the daily workings of a bank has no idea the transactional throughput of a bank nor the inability of a blockchain to handle anything even remotely approaching that scale. The music industry is doing much the same, except they're even more desperate for something, anything, that will stave off a world where the marginal value of a recording is ~zero. Do a Google on "music industry" "blockchain" searching just the last month (as I had cause to this morning ...), and you will see the most clueless fuckers in history getting hugely excited that this might be the magic beans that solves all their problems. Let me assure you that literally none of these people have any understanding of any of this poo poo, and are being lured by the promise of bullshit to solve all their horrible business problems. At least banking has people who can work a loving computer.
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Jun 21, 2016 13:51
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EricBauman posted:Blockchain principles as they currently exist have no place in the banking system. If you truly believe your bank should engage in irreversible transactions with parties that it doesn't fully trust, you should probably close out your bank account and kill yourself. My understanding is that some banks are experimenting with the idea of having a private blockchain where all the blocks are held by other banks. A pile of cash would be set aside and pooled by the banks, and how much each bank owns of that cash would be determined by their share of the blockchain transactions. That would be a system to allow banks to clear wire transfers and checks faster. I don't know if that'll ever happen but that is the only conceivably useful use case I can think of for bitcoin.
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Jun 21, 2016 15:15
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divabot posted:The music industry is doing much the same, except they're even more desperate for something, anything, that will stave off a world where the marginal value of a recording is ~zero. Do a Google on "music industry" "blockchain" searching just the last month (as I had cause to this morning ...), and you will see the most clueless fuckers in history getting hugely excited that this might be the magic beans that solves all their problems. Let me assure you that literally none of these people have any understanding of any of this poo poo, and are being lured by the promise of bullshit to solve all their horrible business problems. At least banking has people who can work a loving computer. I heard about what Imogen Heap was doing, but didn't know it had become a *thing*. I think a lot of people are under the impression that companies are just running really really big LAMP stacks on huge arrays of Dell servers. Probably because when the only tool you have is a hammer and all... Most Fortune 500 companies run very specialized transaction processing systems, and are able to handle obscenely large amounts of work very efficiently. And by obscenely large, start with your average big box retail store and make note of how often you hear a register scanner beep... then multiply that by however many stores that chain has. Chances are that store has an online presence as well, so now factor that in as well. We're talking about terabytes of data per day, all of which has to be immediately available, indexed, and consistent. We expect that all to just work, and drat near instantly. Now look at blockchain.info and watch the trickle of farts roll by. Yeah... perfect fit. I can't imagine why Walmart isn't exactly foaming at the mouth to replace their entire enterprise with a couple of Good Minin' Rigs.
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Jun 21, 2016 15:47
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Concerned Citizen posted:My understanding is that some banks are experimenting with the idea of having a private blockchain where all the blocks are held by other banks. A pile of cash would be set aside and pooled by the banks, and how much each bank owns of that cash would be determined by their share of the blockchain transactions. That would be a system to allow banks to clear wire transfers and checks faster. No reason to use the reward mechanism, though. If those other actors are trusted, they can just write to a shared database without racing each other for rewards.
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Jun 21, 2016 15:55
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EricBauman posted:No reason to use the reward mechanism, though. If those other actors are trusted, they can just write to a shared database without racing each other for rewards. Yeah, I mean - all of the the blocks would be mined and no one would need to charge each other transaction fees. It would just be a way of instantly moving money from one side to another. In the case of banks, they already transact with each other constantly and generally trust each other, but it still takes days for a check or wire transfer to clear through the antiquated ACH system. So a custom blockchain might give banks the ability to sidestep that process and make certain transactions instantaneous since it would be impossible to misrepresent the amount of money available to you and ownership transfer would happen immediately per agreement between the banks. In essence it would be essentially a public ledger of contracts to a share of a pile of money, except the contracts are unfalsifiable cryptographic keys that can be transmitted instantly.
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Jun 21, 2016 16:06
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Concerned Citizen posted:Yeah, I mean - all of the the blocks would be mined and no one would need to charge each other transaction fees. It would just be a way of instantly moving money from one side to another. In the case of banks, they already transact with each other constantly and generally trust each other, but it still takes days for a check or wire transfer to clear through the antiquated ACH system. So a custom blockchain might give banks the ability to sidestep that process and make certain transactions instantaneous since it would be impossible to misrepresent the amount of money available to you and ownership transfer would happen immediately per agreement between the banks. In essence it would be essentially a public ledger of contracts to a share of a pile of money, except the contracts are unfalsifiable cryptographic keys that can be transmitted instantly. How many bitcoins do you own?
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Jun 21, 2016 16:30
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temple posted:How many bitcoins do you own? None, bitcoin is dumb. I've just recall reading an article about banks experimenting with setting up private blockchains for that purpose.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:02
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Concerned Citizen posted:Yeah, I mean - all of the the blocks would be mined and no one would need to charge each other transaction fees. It would just be a way of instantly moving money from one side to another. In the case of banks, they already transact with each other constantly and generally trust each other, but it still takes days for a check or wire transfer to clear through the antiquated ACH system. So a custom blockchain might give banks the ability to sidestep that process and make certain transactions instantaneous since it would be impossible to misrepresent the amount of money available to you and ownership transfer would happen immediately per agreement between the banks. In essence it would be essentially a public ledger of contracts to a share of a pile of money, except the contracts are unfalsifiable cryptographic keys that can be transmitted instantly. 1.) I have never seen a single check in my entire life, nobody in the developed world uses that poo poo anymore. My freaking parents haven't seen a check in their lifetime. It's a solved "problem". 2.) How about you transfer money from one account to another account over a trusted network of banks? You know, also instantaneous, but without the blockchain. It's a solved "problem". What you need is for your medieval banking system to do some much needed modernization and not playing around with buttockscoinage.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:16
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Mortgage industry talent search question (TRUE or FALSE) MERS + blockchain = all the money!!!
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Jun 21, 2016 17:20
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waitwhatno posted:1.) I have never seen a single check in my entire life, nobody in the developed world uses that poo poo anymore. My freaking parents haven't seen a check in their lifetime. It's a solved "problem". Well that's just silly. I write corporate checks all the time. I just got a settlement check in the mail. No one uses personal checks really anymore but checks are around still. waitwhatno posted:2.) How about you transfer money from one account to another account over a trusted network of banks? You know, also instantaneous, but without the blockchain. It's a solved "problem". And that's false too, some hackers just got billions spoofing wire transfer info that banks securely send to each other causing fraudulent wire transfers to get initiated. Roylicious fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 17:21
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waitwhatno posted:1.) I have never seen a single check in my entire life, nobody in the developed world uses that poo poo anymore. My freaking parents haven't seen a check in their lifetime. It's a solved "problem".
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Jun 21, 2016 17:24
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waitwhatno posted:1.) I have never seen a single check in my entire life, nobody in the developed world uses that poo poo anymore. My freaking parents haven't seen a check in their lifetime. It's a solved "problem". I have only seen checks as graduation presents and such, as some older people consider them more dignified than cash envelopes or direct transfers to bank account.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:25
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waitwhatno posted:1.) I have never seen a single check in my entire life, nobody in the developed world uses that poo poo anymore. My freaking parents haven't seen a check in their lifetime. It's a solved "problem". Are your parents 13 or something?
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Jun 21, 2016 17:25
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waitwhatno posted:2.) How about you transfer money from one account to another account over a trusted network of banks? You know, also instantaneous, but without the blockchain. It's a solved "problem". Alright found the link, looks like they did a typo and didn't get $1b but they did get $81m. Solved problem indeed. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36473912 quote:"The actors have exploited vulnerabilities in the internal environments of the banks and initiated unauthorised monetary transfers over an international payment messaging system," the alert said. Then there's this one which is different but still: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/02/15/hackers-steal-billion-in-banking-breach/23464913/
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Jun 21, 2016 17:26
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Guys I have never seen a CD, DVD, or any type of physical device of any means in real life before.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:28
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waitwhatno posted:1.) I have never seen a single check in my entire life, nobody in the developed world uses that poo poo anymore. My freaking parents haven't seen a check in their lifetime. It's a solved "problem". In Canada they're still the norm for rent and many private medical practices (e.g. dentists, therapists).
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Jun 21, 2016 17:34
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Lockback posted:Are your parents 13 or something? Europe stopped using that check poo poo many decades ago, together with asbestos and pedo moustaches. Decrepus posted:Guys I have never seen a CD, DVD, or any type of physical device of any means in real life before. My goondolences.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:34
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Johnny Aztec posted:You are probably one of those same people that claim cash is obsolete and will be gone in the next few years. It's funny how regional it can be though. Like my fiance has spent her entire life if the Pacific Northwest (and most of her foreign travel has been in Europe), never uses cash, and was generally of the opinion that it was archaic and something you almost never needed to use. And aside from some food carts she's generally right that nothing needs cash and it's never going to be a social faux pas to only have a card. The first time we visited my sister in Brooklyn, she was genuinely surprised to learn that my suggestion to withdraw a decent chunk specifically for this trip was actually a good one.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:34
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waitwhatno posted:Europe stopped using that check poo poo many decades ago, together with asbestos and pedo moustaches. Well that ain't true either I just had a Euro check in my hand a year ago. Although yeah check use there is pretty rare.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:34
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Roylicious posted:Well that ain't true either I just had a Euro check in my hand a year ago. Although yeah check use there is pretty rare. That's creepy, cause Eurochecks™ were abolished something like a decade ago, because no one needed or used that poo poo. Is the check corporeal?
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Jun 21, 2016 17:38
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waitwhatno posted:1.) I have never seen a single check in my entire life, nobody in the developed world uses that poo poo anymore. My freaking parents haven't seen a check in their lifetime. It's a solved "problem". I'm sorry to learn neither you nor your parents have ever held a job.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:40
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waitwhatno posted:That's creepy, cause Eurochecks™ were abolished something like a decade ago, because no one needed or used that poo poo. You're just making poo poo up whole cloth now. I had a Deutsche Bank check in my hand. If it was true that cheques are abolished in the EU since a decade ago then explain why they need to amend the cheque clearing process in 2016: https://www.deutsche-bank.de/fk/de/docs/J_Amendments_to_German_cheque_clearing_process_2016_(englisch)_(A4)_160303_Screen.pdf
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Jun 21, 2016 17:40
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Roylicious posted:You're just making poo poo up whole cloth now. I had a Deutsche Bank check in my hand. That's a regular check, not a Eurocheck. Why did you get a check from DB? Why didn't they do a direct deposit?
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Jun 21, 2016 17:43
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waitwhatno posted:That's a regular check, not a Eurocheck. Why did you get a check from DB? Why didn't they do a direct deposit? By 'euro check' I meant 'check in euros,' like I would say USD check if I was talking about a US check in international terms. I dunno what a Eurocheck™ is and I think you're kind of just being pedantic at this point. I was opening a new account and they preferred a paper check versus wiring in a bunch of USD I guess idk. Because they are Germans. That's not the point though. And checks are still used for business invoicing and stuff because accounting likes to have a paper trail. Yeah it is less common in Europe but checks still exist.
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Jun 21, 2016 17:48
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Hey guys, why would anybody ever switch to stupid exploding "automobiles?" Horse carriages work much better and nobody has had to walk for decades! Transport is a solved "problem."
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Jun 21, 2016 17:53
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Roylicious posted:By 'euro check' I meant 'check in euros,' like I would say USD check if I was talking about a US check in international terms. I dunno what a Eurocheck™ is and I think you're kind of just being pedantic at this point. A Eurocheque was a travelers cheque that could be written in a couple different currencies and was redeemable in most countries in continental Europe; it existed well before the formation of the EU, when cross-country clearing of domestic cheques was slow and involved big fees. They were phased out in the early 2000s, as their purpose had been superseded by both a common currency and a ubiquitous debit card system.
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Jun 21, 2016 18:04
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Well now I know, thank you.
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Jun 21, 2016 18:19
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klafbang posted:Hey guys, why would anybody ever switch to stupid exploding "automobiles?" Horse carriages work much better and nobody has had to walk for decades! Transport is a solved "problem." I mean, making this point does imply that one believes buttcoins or laffchains might have an increase in utility over current worldwide financial systems similar to the difference between mass scale horse-drawn and internal-combustion-powered transportation. Also it turns out that, in order to get that increase in effectiveness, human societies were not just willing but loving excited to sacrifice the lives and limbs of individual members, yes, which is simultaneously pretty lovely and totally understandable.
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Jun 21, 2016 18:24
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Well let me be clear Bitcoin and 'crypto-currency' stuff is dumb as hell, I'm just saying nothing is perfect and banks seeking improvements to their systems isn't a bad thing. They're probably looking at 10 other methods too, but the Bitcoiners aren't interested in posting about that. Just kinda silly to go 'there are no issues bank transfers are a solved problem' is all. It's a constant arms race between black hats and white hats like any other encryption/security and it shouldn't surprise anyone to learn that they are exploring various options.
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Jun 21, 2016 18:31
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