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I mean avoid player didn't even work so I guess I'm glad it's gone.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:13
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Widowmaker being too strong isn't a good reason for whiny players to abuse the avoid function, and abuse of the avoid function isn't a good reason for Blizzard to throw it out. It was a good measure for cases where a player isn't enough of a jackass to block or report, but where you'd rather not see them again.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:17
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Supercar Gautier posted:Widowmaker being too strong isn't a good reason for whiny players to abuse the avoid function, Not having fun when playing the game with a really good widowmaker in it seems like a pretty good reason to use the avoid function.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:20
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Brannock posted:That's what happens when the kids who abused this stuff grow up and become designers and developers, I guess. I feel like it's more "this is what happens when the enthusiastic scrubs who couldn't abuse this stuff consistently grew up to become designers and developers." Although, conversely, it's also possible that it's the former and it's really just about reaching the widest possible audience rather than knowingly making a niche game.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:21
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I'm surprised that the avoid function was working at all, is all I'm saying. I've been thrown into matches where I already avoided my entire team v v.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:21
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I am a high skilled widowmaker with a queue time of over 420 minutes. Make 69 posts on the blizzard overwatch forums against the Avoid a player function or I will appear in your low mmr game and snipe you until you quit.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:21
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Andrast posted:Not having fun when playing the game with a really good widowmaker in it seems like a pretty good reason to use the avoid function. Widowmaker has had one nerf already, she will likely get more adjustments, and certain other characters will likely get buffed to counter her better (I would guess that D.Va will be the first case of this). If you're cultivating a massive shitlist of players based on a totally temporary balance situation, you're being a little bratty, sorry.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:23
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Andrast posted:Not having fun when playing the game with a really good widowmaker in it seems like a pretty good reason to use the avoid function. it doesn't
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Jun 21, 2016 19:24
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Supercar Gautier posted:Widowmaker being too strong isn't a good reason for whiny players to abuse the avoid function, and abuse of the avoid function isn't a good reason for Blizzard to throw it out. It was a good measure for cases where a player isn't enough of a jackass to block or report, but where you'd rather not see them again. i suspect they thought the avoid function would have caused too many problems with matchmaking down the road, causing everyone's (not just widow mains) queue times to go up.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:25
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Supercar Gautier posted:Widowmaker has had one nerf already, she will likely get more adjustments, and certain other characters will likely get buffed to counter her better (I would guess that D.Va will be the first case of this). If you're cultivating a massive shitlist of players based on a totally temporary balance situation, you're being a little bratty, sorry. I don't really see a point caring about some nebulous future where playing against a good widowmaker isn't an awful experience when I want to have fun playing the game right now. Not that I really used the avoid function either since I didn't even know it existed until yesterday. Andrast fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 19:25
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I feel like it's more "this is what happens when the enthusiastic scrubs who couldn't abuse this stuff consistently grew up to become designers and developers." I can't think of a case where a game has intentionally tried to implement a glitch-like ability and had it be useful. Things like bunny hopping or animation cancelling or skiing are usually only interesting when they're accidental quirks of the engine that just so happen to be useful if you practice them until they become second nature. If you actually try to code something like that in, it just looks like you're making an intentionally hard to use mechanic, like those fumbling surgeon simulator type games. Like when Tribes Ascend put back in skiing, they didn't make it require a script to spam jump 100 times a second, they just added a ski keybind right into the game.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:33
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people getting pushed so far out of their skill bracket due to avoids that they wrap back around to the very bottom where they destroy new players seems like a really good reason to remove that feature
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Jun 21, 2016 19:34
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Manatee Cannon posted:people getting pushed so far out of their skill bracket due to avoids that they wrap back around to the very bottom where they destroy new players seems like a really good reason to remove that feature Or, you find a way to preserve the value of the feature while curbing abuse. Like my previous suggestion, where avoiding someone keeps them off your own team, but doesn't keep them off the enemy team.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:36
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I think if you're being avoided by people on your skill bracket to the point where you're defacto moved to another one, it's probably an indication that out of the 21 possible heroes you could have chosen, you picked the one that is the least fun to play with and against. I'm guessing the world's best reinhardt or the world's best mercy doesn't have this problem. I wonder why 
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Jun 21, 2016 19:37
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*louis ck voice* Of COURSE good players should be able to play Widowmaker if they want but maybe if hundreds of people actively want to avoid playing with you you're supposed to have a long queue time
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Jun 21, 2016 19:39
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Ddraig posted:I'm guessing the world's best reinhardt or the world's best mercy doesn't have this problem. I wonder why I also wonder why you think that, considering nothing has been said about that. It was one example of one person used for illustrative purposes. It wasn't the only reason for the removal of the feature.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:40
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If Kaplan had an example of a Symmetra player who couldn't find a game because she was too good he would have definitely used that lol
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Jun 21, 2016 19:42
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they added a PTR: https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/blog/20157263
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Jun 21, 2016 19:42
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avoiding a player because they're better than you is p lame tbh widow was busted before but now she's not so there't no excuse for that Supercar Gautier posted:Or, you find a way to preserve the value of the feature while curbing abuse. Like my previous suggestion, where avoiding someone keeps them off your own team, but doesn't keep them off the enemy team. I guess but people would still complain because they aren't actually avoiding the player at all. it especially doesn't do poo poo if the reason you want to avoid them is because of what they're saying in the chat
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Jun 21, 2016 19:43
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I was asked in another thread about my thoughts on Mei's counters, and since I was working on a Mei guide today anyway, I figured I would cross post my thoughts to see what people thought: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3775520&pagenumber=89#post461286692 I play Mei a lot. 
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Jun 21, 2016 19:43
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Manatee Cannon posted:avoiding a player because they're better than you is p lame tbh Good widows are still far more oppressive than literally any other hero in the game. The nerf didn't really slow them down that much.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:46
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If I had a problem with players shooting me from a distance I would probably not play a shooter, but that's me.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:46
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What was that download just now, the patch notes aren't updated!
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Jun 21, 2016 19:49
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Well, here's some definitively good news, at least:quote:Miscellaneous (I'm pretty sure all today's patch notes are PTR-only, and won't take effect in the main game until competitive play goes wide)
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Jun 21, 2016 19:49
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Fellatio del Toro posted:If Kaplan had an example of a Symmetra player who couldn't find a game because she was too good he would have definitely used that lol whatever helps your narrative i guess.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:49
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BobTheJanitor posted:I can't think of a case where a game has intentionally tried to implement a glitch-like ability and had it be useful. Things like bunny hopping or animation cancelling or skiing are usually only interesting when they're accidental quirks of the engine that just so happen to be useful if you practice them until they become second nature. If you actually try to code something like that in, it just looks like you're making an intentionally hard to use mechanic, like those fumbling surgeon simulator type games. Like when Tribes Ascend put back in skiing, they didn't make it require a script to spam jump 100 times a second, they just added a ski keybind right into the game. Have you ever played a fighting game? "Combo" is a concept that started out as a glitch. e: There are also some Quake mods / indie FPSes that do things like modify bunnyhoping so that it has directional momentum, which makes it more interesting and skillful than most accidental implementations. There's one I'm thinking of in particular but I can't remember it's name offhand. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 19:50
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Snipers are just unfun garbage to play with and against in any FPS and as someone who has been playing FPS games for many, many years, back to QWTF days, I still think they're a loving stupid idea and online games would improve a million times if they were no longer actively pandered towards. FPS games are most fun when there's a lot of mid/close range skirmish and back and forth, team games especially. Having a weapon/character/class that just goes "lol, nope, the most fun part of the game is something you can no longer engage in because any attempts to do so will result in your immediate death" is stupid, has always been stupid, and will continue to be stupid.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:50
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"Intentionally making a hard-to-use mechanic" sounds bad, but it's actually pretty much the definition of making a good competitive game. It's just hard to walk the line between difficult, complex, obscure, and whatever you call "this mechanic tests a skill which might be interesting on its own but is so different from every other skill in the game that it's out of place."
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Jun 21, 2016 19:54
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What else were you going to use avoid for besides terrible players or some one who destroyed you? Just mute them otherwise. The matchmaker should filter out the terrible eventually ( or you are among your peers at least)
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Jun 21, 2016 19:57
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:e: There are also some Quake mods / indie FPSes that do things like modify bunnyhoping so that it has directional momentum, which makes it more interesting and skillful than most accidental implementations. There's one I'm thinking of in particular but I can't remember it's name offhand. Warsow?
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Jun 21, 2016 19:57
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The avoid player function should only have applied to first tier matching making, once it has taken more than 15 seconds or whatever to get a match it should of dropped that feature as a requirement in the match maker.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:58
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flashman posted:What else were you going to use avoid for besides terrible players or some one who destroyed you? Just mute them otherwise. The matchmaker should filter out the terrible eventually ( or you are among your peers at least) You use it on jerks, because it's faster than reporting. Using it to avoid good players is dumb, although I can't say I'm surprised people did. It's good that it's going away but I hope they're extra on the ball about reports to make up for it, and that they actually punish people who are abusive and not just the absolute worst of the worst. (Even if it's just in the form of short-term silences or whatever.) Yes! Thank you, that's exactly the one I had in mind.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:59
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Ugh now how do I avoid widows, Hanzo, and bastions? I would avoid any person who played them
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Jun 21, 2016 20:01
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Widowmaker should get the sniper rifle from bulletstorm 
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Jun 21, 2016 20:01
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Pumpy Dumper posted:Ugh now how do I avoid widows, Hanzo, and bastions? I would avoid any person who played them the soldier only weekly brawl, obviously
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Jun 21, 2016 20:02
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I guess there's an edge case for griefers, because there's no way Blizzard is going to take the time to sift through gameplay footage and determine whether Mei's counterproductive ice walls were on purpose or not. If we're in a battle of the edge cases I'd still weigh that less than sniper dude getting frozen out of the queue and then put into matches with people nowhere near his level, though.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:02
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Jinh posted:Widowmaker should get the sniper rifle from bulletstorm Only if they chenge her ult line to "I'll kill your dicks!".
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Jun 21, 2016 20:03
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The thing is, though, it's not technically difficult. To give you an idea of how incredibly not difficult it actually is, a computer can be programmed to be virtually indistinguishable from a top level player, to the point where a lot of top level players (particularly in TF2) were using these programs to maintain their image. I feel that if your entire raison d'etre can be replaced by a program, then perhaps it's not really as technically difficult as you make it out to be. Once again, a good Reinhardt or a good Mercy could not be replaced with a program. It would be technically infeasible. I used to play a lot of sniper in TFC and then one day I came to the realization, I think it was during a period in time when snipers were outright banned on a lot of servers or severely limited, and the only place snipers were allowed was in sniper only servers, that maybe, just maybe, my picking this class was having a detrimental effect on the game and the playerbase as a whole. Ever since then I've boycotted snipers and my gaming experience has only improved. I'm not as good a sniper as I used to be, but then again I am a good 15 or so years older than I once was and age hasn't really improved my reflexes like fine wine.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:04
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The only nerf I would like to see for widowmaker is a shorter clip. I'm also on the Symmetra hype train. Almost every defense, at least early in the map. Teleporter so good.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:04
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Ddraig posted:I feel that if your entire raison d'etre can be replaced by a program, then perhaps it's not really as technically difficult as you make it out to be. Once again, a good Reinhardt or a good Mercy could not be replaced with a program. It would be technically infeasible. This is a terrible metric that invalidates entire genres that are, in fact, deep and good for human competition.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:06
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