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ZearothK posted:Anyone here has given this Southern Realms mod a shot? If so, does anyone know what the guy who made it means when he says that some units have "dynamic caps"?
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Jun 22, 2016 16:20
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Wallet posted:If so, does anyone know what the guy who made it means when he says that some units have "dynamic caps"? Probably that he limits the available numbers of units to armies/totals. It still exists in the files but I don't think the vanilla game uses it at all. I highly doubt he made it flexible or anything.
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Jun 22, 2016 16:27
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Dear thread: Thank you for introducing me to the devil magic that is checkerboard formation. poo poo is off the chain, yo. It would be really cool if the unit-placer didn't decide that siege weapons don't have to obey the rule of "line these units up in the order they're in on the unit card list". Worked fine for my regular infantry, not so much for my attempted infantry/cannon/infantry/cannon setup. Also, cannons are weirdly fiddly and their arcs don't line up nicely with their model. Regardless, poo poo died. Liberal application of hammerers and slayers loving evaporated the two giants that came in, and using my thunderer unit as a flanker rather than in the missile line was a significantly more useful application of their skills. Aside: aren't cannons supposed to be super good against giants? I was pelting the hell out of them on the approach and it seemed to be knocking them down and not much else.
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Jun 22, 2016 16:36
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Mazz posted:Probably that he limits the available numbers of units to armies/totals. It still exists in the files but I don't think the vanilla game uses it at all. I highly doubt he made it flexible or anything. Yeah, I know about the extant cap system with X of such-and-such unit per player or army, but I was sort of hoping he figured out a way to make it more flexible than that.
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Jun 22, 2016 16:37
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ChickenWing posted:Aside: aren't cannons supposed to be super good against giants? I was pelting the hell out of them on the approach and it seemed to be knocking them down and not much else. Cannons are really just a "soft" counter to giants. They hurt them but they can't realistically be expected to kill them before they are crashing into the lines.
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Jun 22, 2016 16:50
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Chomp8645 posted:Cannons are really just a "soft" counter to giants. They hurt them but they can't realistically be expected to kill them before they are crashing into the lines. I mean like I wasn't even seeing a sliver of missing HP in their health bars by the time they hit my lines.
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Jun 22, 2016 16:56
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How do you guys deal with attrition on foreign soil as VC? I'm used to being able to roam enemy lands for long campaigns of conquest, encamping when I need to replenish, but as far as I can tell VC can only replenish in friendly territory. This makes harassing the Dwarfs and Greenskins kind of a nightmare. I can raid all the way to their settlements but eventually I'm going to need to heal my units. Are you expected to make up for the heavy attrition with raise dead? A couple skeletons and zombies per turn isn't really a good replacement for Grave Guards and Vargheists...
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Jun 22, 2016 17:07
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Deified Data posted:How do you guys deal with attrition on foreign soil as VC? I'm used to being able to roam enemy lands for long campaigns of conquest, encamping when I need to replenish, but as far as I can tell VC can only replenish in friendly territory. This makes harassing the Dwarfs and Greenskins kind of a nightmare. I can raid all the way to their settlements but eventually I'm going to need to heal my units. Are you expected to make up for the heavy attrition with raise dead? A couple skeletons and zombies per turn isn't really a good replacement for Grave Guards and Vargheists... Channeling stance lets you recover troup numbers and heal single-model units, but generally you don't want to spend too long in uncorrupted lands. Either build braziers and send agents to corrupt places you plan to raid, make the campaign swift or pick the skills that reduce attrition (in fact, I've specced two generals to reduce attrition in their forces and they're a great vanguard). The tech in the book of Lahmia that increases corruption in neighboring provinces is one of the most important to rush to.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:22
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Deified Data posted:How do you guys deal with attrition on foreign soil as VC? I'm used to being able to roam enemy lands for long campaigns of conquest, encamping when I need to replenish, but as far as I can tell VC can only replenish in friendly territory. This makes harassing the Dwarfs and Greenskins kind of a nightmare. I can raid all the way to their settlements but eventually I'm going to need to heal my units. Are you expected to make up for the heavy attrition with raise dead? A couple skeletons and zombies per turn isn't really a good replacement for Grave Guards and Vargheists... You don't take attrition when siege-ing, so it helps to line up on the border and do a lightning strike. Replenishment while garrisoning will counteract most attrition, ad there are skills to help. The corruption buildings and skills are of course useful. You pretty much have to accept a few turns of revolt-crushing while corruption builds up when playing as VCs and trying to steamroll.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:34
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I don't know where my head is, but every time I see VC I've been instinctively interpreting that as Vietcong. As an aside, I really do hope they do a bit to nerf crypt horrors or buff trolls. The fact they cost the same is the only thing that really offends me because the difference is pretty clear.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:46
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wiegieman posted:You don't take attrition when siege-ing Wait are you saying that if you are besieging a settlement that you will not take any attrition, even if you would be suffering attrition on the open ground right next to the settlement? Because if so then 
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Jun 22, 2016 17:51
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wiegieman posted:You pretty much have to accept a few turns of revolt-crushing while corruption builds up when playing as VCs and trying to steamroll. And be sure to crush them quickly because in my experience they prefer to raze rather than occupy. I was worried about the public order issues but actually it's been nice to have a few armies to crush to build xp and create corpse fields. I haven't deliberately farmed them, just had my hands full and not enough armies to occupy my new conquests. It would be more flavorful to have the rebels be human instead of vampires but eh.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:52
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ZearothK posted:Anyone here has given this Southern Realms mod a shot? Can't speak to the quality of the mod, but based off his description I hate the author. I'm quite well-known in internet warhammer circles, perhaps you've heard of me? *insert ZANY joke* 
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Jun 22, 2016 17:53
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Chomp8645 posted:Wait are you saying that if you are besieging a settlement that you will not take any attrition, even if you would be suffering attrition on the open ground right next to the settlement? Yes, I've done this several times in the north or as VC. Since you only need to be able to beseige, not occupy, it works just as well with Norscans and Greenskins/Dwarfs as it does with human settlements, or vice versa.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:55
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ZearothK posted:Anyone here has given this Southern Realms mod a shot? This looks really cool, but I am amused that Pavise Crossbowmen do not look like they are carrying actual pavises. I realize this is a mod tools limitation, but still it is funny Kaza42 fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 18:02
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ZearothK posted:Channeling stance lets you recover troup numbers and heal single-model units, but generally you don't want to spend too long in uncorrupted lands. Either build braziers and send agents to corrupt places you plan to raid, make the campaign swift or pick the skills that reduce attrition (in fact, I've specced two generals to reduce attrition in their forces and they're a great vanguard). The tech in the book of Lahmia that increases corruption in neighboring provinces is one of the most important to rush to. Channeling stance doesn't actually seem to let you replenish when in uncorrupted areas. You still take attrition damage. The stance is pretty useless imo. I only jump into it very rarely when I'm idle in friendly territory since it increases your replenishment rate there slightly (but less so than being in a settlement). Chomp8645 posted:Wait are you saying that if you are besieging a settlement that you will not take any attrition, even if you would be suffering attrition on the open ground right next to the settlement? You do end up taking a turn of attrition if you complete the siege and raze the city, though. Razing zeroes out your movement meter so you can't jump into raiding stance to avoid it.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:16
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Deified Data posted:How do you guys deal with attrition on foreign soil as VC? I'm used to being able to roam enemy lands for long campaigns of conquest, encamping when I need to replenish, but as far as I can tell VC can only replenish in friendly territory. This makes harassing the Dwarfs and Greenskins kind of a nightmare. I can raid all the way to their settlements but eventually I'm going to need to heal my units. Are you expected to make up for the heavy attrition with raise dead? A couple skeletons and zombies per turn isn't really a good replacement for Grave Guards and Vargheists... I'm finding it tough to get used to the VC style after playing the Greenskins. It's not as easy to just march around murdering people everywhere.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:28
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Mordja posted:Mods like this are neat but they make me want to wait until people create more custom graphics for them. Like, in the Empire expansion mod, the Knights of Morr are just black-textured Reiksguard, completely lacking their spooky scary skull helms. This Mannfred reskin is pretty decent.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:34
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Babby's first double post.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:35
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Yukitsu posted:I don't know where my head is, but every time I see VC I've been instinctively interpreting that as Vietcong. That said, Crypt Horrors really should cost something like 1100 for what they do. Olive Branch fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 18:37
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Wallet posted:Yeah, I know about the extant cap system with X of such-and-such unit per player or army, but I was sort of hoping he figured out a way to make it more flexible than that. Would they have maybe kept a way to increase the cap on specific units in as an effect or something you could easily add as an effect so long as you named it correctly (probably with the unit id at the end)? So you could assign it to skills or buildings. Probably worth downloading his mod and opening up tables to see if he did figure out something like that.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:46
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Olive Branch posted:Just wanted to throw out there that, once again, your videos explaining MP factions (for Rome 2 and Warhammer) are off the chain and I really learn a lot from your stuff. Sometimes it confirms my suspicions of a unit, other times it makes me rethink its use entirely. I started using Greenskins after your video explaining them and was able to win three straight matches against two Empires and one Greenskins player who tried to assassinate my dudes, but overloaded on Savage Orcs when I had Big 'Uns. Got a link to these videos for Warhammer?
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Jun 22, 2016 18:47
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Yukitsu posted:I don't know where my head is, but every time I see VC I've been instinctively interpreting that as Vietcong. It's kinda wrong IMO to compare units across factions like that, because there's so many interacting factors that influence things. Unless you mean multiplayer costing, anyway.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:52
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Decus posted:Would they have maybe kept a way to increase the cap on specific units in as an effect or something you could easily add as an effect so long as you named it correctly (probably with the unit id at the end)? So you could assign it to skills or buildings. Probably worth downloading his mod and opening up tables to see if he did figure out something like that. That may work since agents are now connected to the tactical map and they weren't ever before. Might be able to tie it to the same system, but idk.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:54
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I think trolls are a little under powered for their cost and ridiculously terrible leadership currently. As it is now, as long as my army has a couple of siege weapons I almost never have to fight an enemy troll unit as long as I remember to target them first.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:55
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Fangz posted:Unless you mean multiplayer costing, anyway. That is 100% what he means definitely.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:55
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drat Dirty Ape posted:I think trolls are a little under powered for their cost and ridiculously terrible leadership currently. As it is now, as long as my army has a couple of siege weapons I almost never have to fight an enemy troll unit as long as I remember to target them first. The best fight was the Dwarf quest where you fight a poo poo ton of trolls. I had so many quarrelers and so much artillery they never hit my lines.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:57
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drat Dirty Ape posted:I think trolls are a little under powered for their cost and ridiculously terrible leadership currently. As it is now, as long as my army has a couple of siege weapons I almost never have to fight an enemy troll unit as long as I remember to target them first. Trolls are great when you stick them next to Grimgor. They then, I assume, become more afraid of Grimgor killing them for running than they are of dying to the enemy.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:59
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I've seen some quirks when trying to vassalize the other races. Is this just generally buggy or are there some rules/conditions that I'm missing? Generally I try to grind someone into the dirt and then offer them to become my pet instead of wiping them out.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:01
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Wallet posted:Yeah, I know about the extant cap system with X of such-and-such unit per player or army, but I was sort of hoping he figured out a way to make it more flexible than that. Decus posted:Would they have maybe kept a way to increase the cap on specific units in as an effect or something you could easily add as an effect so long as you named it correctly (probably with the unit id at the end)? So you could assign it to skills or buildings. Probably worth downloading his mod and opening up tables to see if he did figure out something like that. I looked at the mod on Steam finally and this screenshot implies that's exactly what he's doing. I bet heros being included on the main_units/land_units made that a lot more possible than previously, although I'm not sure I/we ever tried it in Rome 2/Attila. http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/490145495174461117/E042C663FE4C4B8726FE31CF17F8E4FE70BBB205/ Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 19:02
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Fangz posted:It's kinda wrong IMO to compare units across factions like that, because there's so many interacting factors that influence things. Unless you mean multiplayer costing, anyway. I mostly focus on multiplayer. Currently, the Vampire Counts roster is suffering a pretty bad lack of diversity since people just take like, 7 crypt horror units every match since that's an easy way to win. There are some unit counters against them but they're so economical it usually doesn't matter. By contrast no one takes trolls since they run from combat on contact. They're not terrible, but very situational and possible to counter. Actually, redact that, trolls are terrible. They just run away so much as you point a gun at them.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:04
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Ice Fist posted:Trolls are great when you stick them next to Grimgor. They then, I assume, become more afraid of Grimgor killing them for running than they are of dying to the enemy. Anything next to Grimgor is awesome, but yeah putting them next to the general at least makes them not immediately run away. Still, I mostly just include them now and then because they look cool and I like variety. IMO they are one of the worst 'bang for your buck' greenskin (and chaos) units.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:05
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drat Dirty Ape posted:I think trolls are a little under powered for their cost and ridiculously terrible leadership currently. As it is now, as long as my army has a couple of siege weapons I almost never have to fight an enemy troll unit as long as I remember to target them first. Monster squad linebreakers like trolls and crypt horrors are actually best used when charging through an already engaged line, into the enemy infantry on the other side of your guys. It's like a rear cav charge you don't have to maneuver for.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:22
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drat Dirty Ape posted:Anything next to Grimgor is awesome, but yeah putting them next to the general at least makes them not immediately run away. Still, I mostly just include them now and then because they look cool and I like variety. IMO they are one of the worst 'bang for your buck' greenskin (and chaos) units. I always got a lot of milage out of mine. Even when they brake they don't shatter usually, so they just run off, then heal up and charge again. It's like an enforced cycle charge, 
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Jun 22, 2016 19:22
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I kept getting attacked by those norscan stacks with nothing but horse skirmishers + chariots + trolls. I think the AI specifically throws the trolls in there as a joke to complete their "100% of this army spends the entire fight running away from you" unit composition.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:23
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Was medieval 2 the last TW game where actual model swaps where a thing? I seem to recall any custom units since being either retextures or combinations of parts of different units (helmet swap ect).
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Jun 22, 2016 19:25
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does anyone know what the patch is supposed to fix? apparently magic is real poo poo in the current version of the game an i would like to start as balthasar without getting my rear end handed to me
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Jun 22, 2016 19:25
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Ice Fist posted:Trolls are great when you stick them next to Grimgor. They then, I assume, become more afraid of Grimgor killing them for running than they are of dying to the enemy. This is kinda delving into lore fluff but isn't Grimgor supposedly bar none the most skilled fighter in Warhammer Fantasy?
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Jun 22, 2016 19:33
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Olive Branch posted:Just wanted to throw out there that, once again, your videos explaining MP factions (for Rome 2 and Warhammer) are off the chain and I really learn a lot from your stuff. Sometimes it confirms my suspicions of a unit, other times it makes me rethink its use entirely. I started using Greenskins after your video explaining them and was able to win three straight matches against two Empires and one Greenskins player who tried to assassinate my dudes, but overloaded on Savage Orcs when I had Big 'Uns. Hey, glad the advice helped. The game needs a bit of fixing though, hope they don't change so much of it that I need to completely redo faction vids but at the same time, the multiplayer is a bit of a cheese fest.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:36
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Yukitsu posted:Hey, glad the advice helped. The game needs a bit of fixing though, hope they don't change so much of it that I need to completely redo faction vids but at the same time, the multiplayer is a bit of a cheese fest. So they did perfectly capture the spirit of the tabletop game then. 
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Jun 22, 2016 19:40
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