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That seems plausible but aren't the minimum specs for PC are so much higher than those of the 3DS that I'm starting to wonder...quote:MINIMUM:
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Jun 22, 2016 08:53
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I'm sure they had their reasons, but surely going 2d would've nullified all these problems. I'm watching the stream and really feeling for these guys, though, they seem like really good and enthusiastic people.
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Jun 22, 2016 08:57
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The only Mega man games I have played are one or two of the ones that came out on the NES when I was a kid. Can someone explain what makes MN9 so bad/mediocre compared to good Mega Man games?
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Jun 22, 2016 08:59
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The PC version doesn't even run at 60 fps for most people. Think about that.
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Jun 22, 2016 09:14
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Mr Underhill posted:I have never played a Mega Man game in my life, nor was I interested in MN9, but (aside from the gameplay itself, which I can't comment on) am I getting this right, is that placeholder art in the first image, looking heaps better than the final product? Wow. I understand taking the graphics down a notch for cross-platform stuff, but wow. I mean I don't expect it to look exactly like the concept art - this was the one that pulled a 180 and went 3d from 2d, right? - but that's nowhere near what they teased. Holy moly. Gonna watch the recorded stream now. Did they change art director mid-project? What the hell happened there? Also I wouldn't be too certain that a sequel would fix a lot of the issues of the first, because that decision to port it to everything under the sun immediately does say that the direction at Comcept isn't the best, and it remains to be seen if the bad design choices present in the game are a result of them being too pre-occupied with ports and other related infrastructure or if it was just them being bad at making games. Really the worst thing about all of this is knowing that if Inti Creates did stick around to work on the whole thing instead of just helping with the ground work then the game most likely would have turned out really well, because they know how to make these sorts of games, and are showing that with Iga they have the flexibility to also make a proper 2D Castlevania. Black Mage Knight fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 09:20
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:That seems plausible but aren't the minimum specs for PC are so much higher than those of the 3DS that I'm starting to wonder... Different hardware architecture and engine quirks mean different hardware requirements from platform to platform, so you can't really compare them like that. That said, the issue is going to be one of art assets rather than engine stuff - they probably did one set of assets for use across all platforms rather than one set for PC/PS4/XB1, one for 3DS, etc. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 09:23
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TFRazorsaw posted:Shovel Knight succeeded at everything MN9 tried to do on multiple platforms and it didn't end up such a disaster. I like how you're trying to compare a basic 2D game with a much more complex 3D game. Those are two traits I'm naming, by the way. I'm not associating number of dimensions with complexity.
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Jun 22, 2016 12:14
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You'd think that with 4GB of RAM they could at least afford a black circle shadow underneath Beck .
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Jun 22, 2016 12:23
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Cheez posted:I like how you're trying to compare a basic 2D game with a much more complex 3D game. Those are two traits I'm naming, by the way. I'm not associating number of dimensions with complexity. Look man, they chose to take on these things when they started development. Unreal Engine 3 was decided on for the game's engine before the 3DS version was added to stretch goals, which they embraced whole heartedly despite the fact that it doesn't support it. I think the comparison to what SK is apt when they did things like this knowingly instead of going in with a solid business and development plan that accounted for things like this. Adapting their vision to wildly varying hardware requires foresight they clearly didn't have. Is MN9 a more complex game? Maybe, sure. But that's why they should have been more sensible about it.
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Jun 22, 2016 12:23
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Of course, I'm not arguing that. But it's still a bad example.
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Jun 22, 2016 12:27
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Cheez posted:I like how you're trying to compare a basic 2D game with a much more complex 3D game. Those are two traits I'm naming, by the way. I'm not associating number of dimensions with complexity. What part of MN9 is functionally 3D? Like on a gameplay level. Does it use 2.5D elements or something? Does the Z-axis ever come into play from the perspective of the player's controls? 'Cause if not, then, uh, yeah, you're comparing a basic 2D game with a basic 2D game that was visually stretched into three dimensions because 
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Jun 22, 2016 13:12
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The White Dragon posted:What part of MN9 is functionally 3D? Like on a gameplay level. Does it use 2.5D elements or something? Does the Z-axis ever come into play from the perspective of the player's controls? 'Cause if not, then, uh, yeah, you're comparing a basic 2D game with a basic 2D game that was visually stretched into three dimensions because
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Jun 22, 2016 13:16
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I think what's gotten lost in this comparison is that at the end of the day people will forgive a platformer for minimalist graphics if the core gameplay is good. That's what Shovel Knight got right. If you have to scale down the graphics to fit on all the devices you promised that's fine as long as you have a killer game underneath. So saying they messed up when they went the 3D route isn't just they overpromised it's that there's nothing to make up for that fact so you might as well throw it in the pile of complaints.
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Jun 22, 2016 13:22
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Lurdiak posted:That means the game is bad, right.
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Jun 22, 2016 13:24
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If we're nitpicking, Shovel Knight's graphics are not minimalist. These are minimalist graphics:   This is Shovel Knight:  
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Jun 22, 2016 13:27
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Darkhold posted:I think what's gotten lost in this comparison is that at the end of the day people will forgive a platformer for minimalist graphics if the core gameplay is good. That's what Shovel Knight got right. If you have to scale down the graphics to fit on all the devices you promised that's fine as long as you have a killer game underneath. So saying they messed up when they went the 3D route isn't just they overpromised it's that there's nothing to make up for that fact so you might as well throw it in the pile of complaints.
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Jun 22, 2016 13:28
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Cheez posted:At the same time, though, if their game was simpler both visually and in the engine choice(s), they wouldn't have had to spend so much time and money on porting and trying to wrestle with all the varying hardware. If anything, the project could have benefited from losing the record breaking platform count and not even considering the pointless netplay goal. This is the thing. Without the platform count all of a sudden there's scope to polish the poo poo that actually matters far more to the success of the game. As it stands the best you can say is they got it over the line. It all comes back to the way an over promising Kickstarter can lock a project in ways that force it to be mismanaged as the project evolves. Even with the size of the budget, what came out indicated there was never enough cushioning to absorb all that scope creep.
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Jun 22, 2016 13:36
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The thing is, Azure Striker Gunvolt was a reasonably competent Mega Man Zero successor. It wasn't amazing, but it should at least served as evidence that Inti Creates was capable of doing a Mega Man successor. But, for some reason, the necessary talent wasn't applied or got mismanaged; it makes the rumors about MN9's budget being funneled into the disastrous Red Ash seem a lot more credible.
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Jun 22, 2016 13:40
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Comcept didn't spend the MN9 money on other things, the project was just mismanaged. They sure as hell didn't spend it on Red Ash, either - if they did, they wouldn't have had to toss up that laughable Unity demo at the end of their campaign. A lot of the leads on MN9 were relatively inexperienced and I get the impression that both Comcept and Inti were using this project as a training exercise, either for the projects leads or the people learning the tech (Inti does not do a lot of HD/console work nowadays), with the assumption that there were enough veterans around to make sure things went smoothly.
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Jun 22, 2016 13:48
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Regardless of where the money went, 2D might have actually been more expensive for what they had to work with
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Jun 22, 2016 17:22
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TFRazorsaw posted:Shovel Knight succeeded at everything MN9 tried to do on multiple platforms and it didn't end up such a disaster. It's worth noting the Shovel Knight team ended up working without pay for 6 months to make the game meet its deadline (almost). If Shovel Knight hadn't sold well, Yacht Club would be dead in the water.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:09
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Lurdiak posted:It's worth noting the Shovel Knight team ended up working without pay for 6 months to make the game meet its deadline (almost). If Shovel Knight hadn't sold well, Yacht Club would be dead in the water. I only recently realized that Shovel Knight and SteamShovel Harry were not the same game
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Jun 22, 2016 18:27
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Lurdiak posted:It's worth noting the Shovel Knight team ended up working without pay for 6 months to make the game meet its deadline (almost). If Shovel Knight hadn't sold well, Yacht Club would be dead in the water. And the developers would be stuck with over a million dollars in personal debt. It's actually really scary.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:38
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Lurdiak posted:It's worth noting the Shovel Knight team ended up working without pay for 6 months to make the game meet its deadline (almost). If Shovel Knight hadn't sold well, Yacht Club would be dead in the water. Yeah the story behind Shovel Knight sounds like some kind of eighties feel good movie where a small team of underdogs beat ridiculous odds. I still find it crazy that they're releasing all that DLC for free, I legit would not have a problem if they said simply couldn't do that despite the kickstarter campaign and needed to put a price on it to not starve to death. Measuring any other videogame kickstarter campaign is being a bit unfair in my view, everything seemed to work out for those guys in a way it hasn't for almost every other developer.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:14
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Even in this era of greatly increased transparency, the average gamer and kickstarter backer has no idea how goddamn scary and hard and expensive getting a game out there is.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:19
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khwarezm posted:Yeah the story behind Shovel Knight sounds like some kind of eighties feel good movie where a small team of underdogs beat ridiculous odds. I still find it crazy that they're releasing all that DLC for free, I legit would not have a problem if they said simply couldn't do that despite the kickstarter campaign and needed to put a price on it to not starve to death. Measuring any other videogame kickstarter campaign is being a bit unfair in my view, everything seemed to work out for those guys in a way it hasn't for almost every other developer. I think they actually have said that they really, really shouldn't be releasing the DLC for free because it's costing a ton but they said they would so they are. Or at the very least they posted the money that the DLC is costing them and I thought "You really, really shouldn't be releasing that for free."
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Jun 22, 2016 19:21
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I hope they have enough money in the bank to fund their next game. Shovel Knight sold very well but it must be close to market saturation by now and it'd be a shame if it ended up being their only game, even if it is a fantastic one. They could get away with another kickstarter, I suppose. They have tremendous amounts of good will and deserve every drop of it.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:45
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Lurdiak posted:Even in this era of greatly increased transparency, the average gamer and kickstarter backer has no idea how goddamn scary and hard and expensive getting a game out there is.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:46
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Lurdiak posted:Even in this era of greatly increased transparency, the average gamer and kickstarter backer has no idea how goddamn scary and hard and expensive getting a game out there is. That's entirely on the kickstarter creators for undervaluing their asks. It's a misconception reinforced by the people asking for money who routinely lowball how much money they ask for, then cry crocodile tears about how gosh darned expensive it is to make video games, guys.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:54
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Toxxupation posted:That's entirely on the kickstarter creators for undervaluing their asks. It's a misconception reinforced by the people asking for money who routinely lowball how much money they ask for, then cry crocodile tears about how gosh darned expensive it is to make video games, guys. Yeah, Molyneux is a scumbag.
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Jun 22, 2016 19:57
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HMS Boromir posted:I hope they have enough money in the bank to fund their next game. Shovel Knight sold very well but it must be close to market saturation by now and it'd be a shame if it ended up being their only game, even if it is a fantastic one. Shovel Knight is successful enough they'll have no problem finding a publisher for their next game.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:07
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I wonder what kind of money, if any, they made from the Shove Knight amiibo. Also God Bless Shovel Knight but the couple of MN9 levels I played seemed pretty good to me.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:17
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ImpAtom posted:Shovel Knight is successful enough they'll have no problem finding a publisher for their next game. This destructoid article hints that they might be becoming a publisher https://www.destructoid.com/yacht-club-games-is-shoveling-into-the-publishing-business-370413.phtml quote:Yacht Club Games has become a driving force in the industry very quickly. They were only founded in 2011 and have just one game (Shovel Knight, released in 2014), but they keep on remaining relevant with their constant support and generally positive attitude. Could just as easily be nothing through.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:22
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Has anyone here been satisfied with something they kickstarted? I haven't. To be fair I have only kickstarted six or so things, but none of them turned out near the hype. Biggest disappointments(that at least released something) so far for me are probably Torment and Planetary Annihilation.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:38
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Shovel Knight is still the best thing I ever kickstarted unless Yooka-Laylee or Shantae can somehow top that Though I really wish I could have backed Undertale when I had the chance
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Jun 22, 2016 20:45
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Reason posted:Has anyone here been satisfied with something they kickstarted? I haven't. To be fair I have only kickstarted six or so things, but none of them turned out near the hype. Biggest disappointments(that at least released something) so far for me are probably Torment and Planetary Annihilation. I backed Catlateral Damage and the Zoombinis remake, and I think they're both pretty great.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:46
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I found PA rather poo poo on "release", but I started playing again shortly before titans got announced, and it was very good. Then titans came out and now it's great, and I'd play it more if I had the time. There's still some QoL things that would be really nice to have, but the game is very fun as it is now IMO. What's wrong with torment btw?
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Jun 22, 2016 20:46
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Reason posted:Has anyone here been satisfied with something they kickstarted? I haven't. To be fair I have only kickstarted six or so things, but none of them turned out near the hype. Biggest disappointments(that at least released something) so far for me are probably Torment and Planetary Annihilation. Yeah, plenty of things. The ones that I didn't like were only because they did not reach their goals at all: Fund A Jake Kaufman Soundtrack For "Ghost Police" and Icarus Proudbottom: Starship Captain (Canceled) I guess I'm lucky! Lookin forward to that Yooka Laylee toybox come whenever-in-July!
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Jun 22, 2016 20:49
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I've backed only one failure, that one adventure game from a while back called Lioness, seeing is that the creator probably just took the money and ran. It was only like ten bucks though.(And I got a nice soundtrack so it wasn't a total loss) I backed stuff like Pillars of Eternity, Fran Bow, Undertale, Dreamfall Chapters, Dropsy, Shadowrun Hong Kong, Quiplash, and Aurion among others. So I've been pretty good at picking good projects to back.
Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jun 22, 2016 |
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Jun 22, 2016 20:51
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Reason posted:Has anyone here been satisfied with something they kickstarted? I haven't. To be fair I have only kickstarted six or so things, but none of them turned out near the hype. Biggest disappointments(that at least released something) so far for me are probably Torment and Planetary Annihilation. Carmageddon: Reincarnation, Chroma Squad, and Pillars of Eternity have all been great. I'm still hopeful for Timespinner, Barkley 2, and Ghost Song. Honestly, MN9 has been my first real "miss", so to speak.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:52
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