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Pick posted:I don't think it's impossible to have racist characters or have a character say an ignorant/racist thing, though you have to do it carefully, but it has to come from a context where it's clear that the author isn't implicitly or explicitly condoning that perspective. I'm not convinced she's established that kind of credibility, considering concerns about her comic's world/setting which have already been mentioned. And there are still lingering odd feelings over Redtail's Dream, like the spiel from the main character about how it's okay to torture animals and the secondary character apparently thinking some sort of deep point was being made. Creators are separate from their creations, but especially when information about a creator is limited, people are going to be wary of certain content for sure. Oh, come the gently caress on, the joke in this entire page is basically that these characters are entirely ignorant of Chinese and indeed much of the outside world. I don't know what perspective you think the author is condoning here. And yeah I'd but it down on a cultural difference. It's an unfortunate wording for an US audience which the author has wisely toned down, but not everywhere is America and it's pretty clear nothing was meant by it other than 'Emil is an idiot and Mikkel is not'. Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 13:48
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please do not use the middle kingdom as a joke, for webcomics to laugh at
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Jun 23, 2016 13:50
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My point was more "you should be careful with jokes about racial stereotypes when your comic is about a world where only whites survived".
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Jun 23, 2016 14:03
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Renaissance Robot posted:Look here sonny, I enjoy rolling a fat bong of lsd as much as anybody, I just don't need it when I'm trying to shitpost about webcomics instead of working, furthermore, 
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Jun 23, 2016 14:05
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psychedelic trash
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Jun 23, 2016 14:06
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I can confirm that this is how bongs are used.
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Jun 23, 2016 14:13
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Fangz posted:Oh, come the gently caress on, the joke in this entire page is basically that these characters are entirely ignorant of Chinese and indeed much of the outside world. I don't know what perspective you think the author is condoning here. I don't think the issue is that "ching chong china talk" was used, but that her reaction was to miss the point entirely and respond with "well ching chong china talk is funny in Finland  "The "well it's a different culture" excuse is such bullshit to me, especially when it's a stereotype as cartoonishly racist as depicting Chinese with buck teeth and pointy hats. The Dutch celebrate Zwarte Piet but that doesn't mean it's okay for them to dress in blackface, it just means Dutch culture is lovely and racist
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Jun 23, 2016 14:13
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PEH, AMERICANS 
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Jun 23, 2016 14:57
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HorseRenoir posted:I don't think the issue is that "ching chong china talk" was used, but that her reaction was to miss the point entirely and respond with "well ching chong china talk is funny in Finland lol
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Jun 23, 2016 14:59
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I'll just start ticking down the days until this thread has tired itself of throwing useless little censures against a comic half of us never read in the first place. I give it about five days- more if the author does something in that time. You know why it's useless? Because there are actual problems in the world, and this is the thing people are getting worked up about. It's the same phenomenon as gamergate- there might be a legitimate issue at the heart of it, but the only reason people give a poo poo is because it's butted it's way into the all encompassing world of their entertainment and it's an easy target. It's useless because given the perspective of the world we live in making a case against this is a hilariously hollow and wasted effort. That is the entire reason the argument is funny- noone in this thread would give a poo poo if it didn't happen in a webcomic.
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Jun 23, 2016 16:46
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For the record there isn't a legitimate issue at the heart of GamerGate, while racism is bad. hth.
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Jun 23, 2016 16:54
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Just Offscreen posted:I'll just start ticking down the days until this thread has tired itself of throwing useless little censures against a comic half of us never read in the first place. I give it about five days- more if the author does something in that time. "Things are bad, so we should ignore everything that's less bad" is a pretty bad argument tbh. Like, sure, it'd be less bad for me to go up to some random dude and slap him in the face instead of kicking him in the balls, but he'd still have the right to go "dude wtf"
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Jun 23, 2016 16:57
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This is a thread about webcomics. It's unlikely that we'd just start talking about social problems generally. But when one involves a webcomic, it wouldn't be surprising for it to come up? Gamergate is a movement about beating up on women for daring to exist in public and endlessly hounding and harassing them, whereas this seems to be people being annoyed at an artist's casual racism, so I don't see much of a correlation? I guess I'm not real clear on what you're arguing here. I mean, I got as annoyed as anyone else when the thread descends into pages of poo poo and nonsense (probably more annoyed than a lot of people), but "it's like Gamergate" is kind of a weird direction to take this.
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Jun 23, 2016 17:02
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Kajeesus posted:For the record there isn't a legitimate issue at the heart of GamerGate, while racism is bad. hth. word filter i love you
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Jun 23, 2016 17:06
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The racism defense force coming out whenever someone criticizes something racist is a really bizarre phenomenon here, though yes, comparing not liking racism to an actual hate movement that has a fair amount of racism itself mixed in with the misogyny is something special. Still, it's always amazing how many people come out of the woodwork to cry crocodile tears whenever someone points out that a thing comes off as racist. So many people invested in racism not being criticized. Oxxidation posted:word filter i love you I forgot about that particular filter. That's a good one.
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Jun 23, 2016 17:10
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I'd agree, if this were the only context in which someone cared about racism. Hopefully they care about racism here because they also care about racism elsewhere, and it's being expressed here in the context of webcomics because this is the thread about webcomics.
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Jun 23, 2016 17:14
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Roland Jones posted:racism defense force
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Jun 23, 2016 17:26
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Yes now let's get into racial depictions in a cultural context, and also whether 'oriental' is a racial slur or just old timey.
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Jun 23, 2016 17:28
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Avshalom is the only good poster and I wonder what people who feel the need to trumpet their comic book outrage or counter-outrage to, like, the internet generally, anyone who has anything to do with the comic exclusive, think they look like to other people.
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Jun 23, 2016 17:34
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Avshalom is the only good poster and I wonder what people who feel the need to trumpet their comic book outrage or counter-outrage to, like, the internet generally, anyone who has anything to do with the comic exclusive, think they look like to other people. All criticism is outrage. Any kind of posting other than "webcomics are good" is just too severe and gives me a case of the vapors I do declare.
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Jun 23, 2016 18:04
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Captain Oblivious posted:All criticism is outrage. Any kind of posting other than "webcomics are good" is just too severe and gives me a case of the vapors I do declare. It's easy to figure out who sucks by they way they frame that stuff
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Jun 23, 2016 18:08
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:It's easy to figure out who sucks by they way they frame that stuff
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Jun 23, 2016 18:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h54DOiYmNuY
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Jun 23, 2016 18:12
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lol at the 3 dudes hellbent on taking the counter stance to anything this thread posits as good to the point where they are now defending the use of "ching chong" to describe something chinese and framing it as some meaningful stance against censorship. just offscreen that post was embarrassing, go outside you dweeb. avshalom please drown out these terrible posts e: to be clear i am vocally supportive of lovely dickhead characters and understand that you must separate author from the fiction, but this is such a basic faux pas that its reasonable for people to be a little shocked at how casually it was used and defended. fun hater fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 18:16
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webcomics are good, except when they are bad
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Jun 23, 2016 18:18
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the only good webcomic is supermega
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Jun 23, 2016 18:20
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Avshalom is the only good poster and I wonder what people who feel the need to trumpet their comic book outrage or counter-outrage to, like, the internet generally, anyone who has anything to do with the comic exclusive, think they look like to other people. god forbid we ever react to anything without five layers of detached irony
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Jun 23, 2016 18:21
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FactsAreUseless posted:I recommend a nice cherry wood, oiled but not varnished. i'm a fan of oak, nice and solid, gonna last you a while
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Jun 23, 2016 18:21
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i think i detached an irony should i go see a doctor
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Jun 23, 2016 18:23
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Tunicate posted:Yes now let's get into racial depictions in a cultural context, and also whether 'oriental' is a racial slur or just old timey. Tbh I don't see why this ever spun out into a thing when like three people at most would've responded to the first post expressing mild annoyance before the discussion died off, but mayb pearl clutching at potential peal clutching is all the thread can rly do when Poppy O'Possum is on a hiatus I mean thst an Avshalom expanding her religious canon but she's doing God's work there
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Jun 23, 2016 18:24
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fun hater posted:lol at the 3 dudes hellbent on taking the counter stance to anything this thread posits as good to the point where they are now defending the use of "ching chong" to describe something chinese and framing it as some meaningful stance against censorship. If the thread has been more critical, they would have noticed the comic's racist subtext earlier (it's about reclaiming territory from an evil unknowable other). Instead they're convulsing over the shock, and constructing a phantasmal image of the author. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 18:25
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idonotlikepeas posted:This is a thread about webcomics. It's unlikely that we'd just start talking about social problems generally. But when one involves a webcomic, it wouldn't be surprising for it to come up? Gamergate is a movement about beating up on women for daring to exist in public and endlessly hounding and harassing them, whereas this seems to be people being annoyed at an artist's casual racism, so I don't see much of a correlation? I guess I'm not real clear on what you're arguing here. That's fair- gg isn't the best comparison, but the first that popped into my head of "things the internet gets frothing mad about that does fuckall and actually actively makes things worse." Also yeah I've always been partial to Oak.
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Jun 23, 2016 18:26
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bravest have you considered not being contrary for the sake of being contrary? it's not really a good look
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Jun 23, 2016 18:26
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Just Offscreen posted:That's fair- gg isn't the best comparison, but the first that popped into my head of "things the internet gets frothing mad about that does fuckall and actually actively makes things worse." don't agree with me you worthless pissbitch
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Jun 23, 2016 18:28
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Alaois posted:don't agree with me you worthless pissbitch I can like any kind of wood I want to calm down. You don't own all the wood. Or do you? Yeah I actually agree on all points. Just Offscreen fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 18:30
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HorseRenoir posted:god forbid we ever react to anything without five layers of detached irony I assume my seventh irony form and grin in a most poo poo eating fashion.
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Jun 23, 2016 18:36
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The only way to defeat him is to not care. Meh.
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Jun 23, 2016 18:43
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Captain Oblivious posted:I assume my seventh irony form and grin in a most poo poo eating fashion. Mace Windu always favoured that
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Jun 23, 2016 18:56
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We know the dark Other and we do not approve
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Jun 23, 2016 19:16
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The perception of what is offensive depends a lot on the kind of upbringing you had so it's easy to not realize that something is terribly racist if you never got to see people telling you that indeed it is racist. This is an example of what is called "being sheltered". The Internet abolishing boundaries, so here you go using stuff that you had no idea was deeply offensive, because you had never met anyone who had been offended by it IRL, and suddenly you're told that actually it's very offensive. Many perceive that as an attack on their character (not: their characters) and so they react overly defensively instead of just going "my bad, I didn't realize". And of course, this is always the opportunity for a smug American to pontificate about how Europeans are incredibly more racist than them, because Zwarte Piete. 
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Jun 23, 2016 19:33
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