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HEY GAL posted:while i was looking through Hans U Franck for pictures of war crimes, i found this: Everybody walking away from this mortally wounded. e: Your Rapier looks fine. Power Khan fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 10:26
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Comstar posted:Is there somewhere on the web with them? I guess he saw them all actually happening at one time or another? https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Ulrich_Franck but I don't know enough about his life to say one way or another. I remember hearing that Callot actually was embedded with an army at some point though. Goya liked Callot, but I wonder if he had ever encountered Franck? JaucheCharly posted:Everybody walking away from this mortally wounded. quote:e: Your Rapier looks fine. 
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Jun 23, 2016 10:53
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HEY GAL posted:i do like to see how "grab the other guy's sword" is a defense technique in the period.
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Jun 23, 2016 11:28
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Grab the other dudes blade barehanded, as some sort of last ditch?
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Jun 23, 2016 11:33
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JaucheCharly posted:Grab the other dudes blade barehanded, as some sort of last ditch? also extremely rapiery rapiers might not be sharpened on the edge edit: smallswords are good to fight with, but the look of them just does not impress me HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 11:38
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It's a really odd thing. For instance: This looks like a really dumb thing to do (even with the illustrated gloves on), but the text seems to insist that the only way the student can free his sword is by smacking the priest on the fingers with his buckler. Then maybe a century later Fiore has not one but several grapples where you drop your own sword and wrestle the other guy to the ground using his as a lever:  When the opponent parries your strike and you cross swords, you grab the opponent's sword by the blade, hit them in the face with it, and then do the illustrated technique. I seriously have no idea. There's a couple of theories about it, but people are mysteriously reluctant to test them at speed.  Maybe old-time people just had massively calloused hands or something? 
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Jun 23, 2016 12:27
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Most of the demonstrations I've seen tend to lean towards "as long as you hold on really loving tight, it won't cut you" as an explanation.
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Jun 23, 2016 12:29
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i think my favorite thing about that Franck pic is the expression on the sword-grabber's face. Everyone else in this brawl is so pissed their faces look grotesque, that is some Goya poo poo, but he's calm. He's thinking. I like him. also he's got a sweet mustache edit: Franck is really good at facial expressions. He's really bad at background details he apparently doesn't care about, like in here the soldier on the right's sword is left off because reasons  HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 12:37
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Not surprised that people greeted better firearms.
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Jun 23, 2016 12:39
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More franck: a thrusting sword  a cut-and-thrust sword  Know Your Warcrimes
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Jun 23, 2016 12:54
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Kemper Boyd posted:Most of the demonstrations I've seen tend to lean towards "as long as you hold on really loving tight, it won't cut you" as an explanation. That's what this video is showing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwuQPfvSSlo The guy's holding the blade tight enough that it doesn't move at all and so it can only dig into his palm a little. The very beginning even shows him grabbing someone else's sword and it's just not budging since they're both pulling on it. He says gloves wouldn't protect against cuts but they make him feel more confident than when grabbing the blade with his bare hands.
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Jun 23, 2016 13:05
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 Dang, Skall!Edit: Well, I guess that's 
Siivola fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 13:10
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Kassad posted:The guy's holding the blade tight enough that it doesn't move at all and so it can only dig into his palm a little. The very beginning even shows him grabbing someone else's sword and it's just not budging since they're both pulling on it. He says gloves wouldn't protect against cuts but they make him feel more confident than when grabbing the blade with his bare hands. Guy I worked with talked about some idiot co-workers of his who got cut-resistant gloves from their employer and decided to test them by having one guy holding on tight to a knife and one guy yanking it out. Turns out even cut-resistant gloves aren't made for that.
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Jun 23, 2016 14:36
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Kemper Boyd posted:Guy I worked with talked about some idiot co-workers of his who got cut-resistant gloves from their employer and decided to test them by having one guy holding on tight to a knife and one guy yanking it out. Grip strength plays a huge role, obviously. If you can grip sufficiently stronger than the person pulling, you should be fine. Also kitchen knives tend to be insanely sharp, and the overall length means it is easier to pull forcefully than a sword. Would I personally do it? No, and I have pretty good grip strength, but it was certainly done historically and makes sense from a physics perspective. Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 18:13
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Verisimilidude posted:Grip strength plays a huge role, obviously. If you can grip sufficiently stronger than the person pulling, you should be fine. Also kitchen knives tend to be insanely sharp, and the overall length means it is easier to pull forcefully than a sword. Would I personally do it? No, and I have pretty good grip strength, but it was certainly done historically and makes sense from a physics perspective. Yeah, it was mostly a story about how security guards are idiots.
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Jun 23, 2016 18:45
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Kemper Boyd posted:Yeah, it was mostly a story about how security guards are idiots.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:01
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HEY GAL posted:they're fat and they've got a narrow bit that you grip I find it really neat that people carry machine guns the same way people carried muskets back in the day. 
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Jun 23, 2016 21:28
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Armyman25 posted:I find it really neat that people carry machine guns the same way people carried muskets back in the day. there's only so many ways you can carry a heavy, long object.
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Jun 23, 2016 21:42
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:there's only so many ways you can carry a heavy, long object.  
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Jun 23, 2016 21:50
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I was wondering about the diet, exercise and physical build of fighting men before the gunpowder age. The diet and exercise regimen of the Army now is less-than-ideal from a sports nutrition point of view, but it works. 3000 calories a day, with one grain, one protien one veg three times a day won't make you really built, or really lean but it will let you hump a ruck and dig a trench. From reading about daily life in the middle ages, most of the descriptions either focus on peasents eating bread and onions or the exotic feats of the nobility. Likewise they describe backbreaking physical labour on the fields or fencing drills and leisurely hunts on horseback. I also know that people were much smaller back then. Would a medieval knight be eating 200 grams of protien a day and have low bodyfat like a modern athlete? I don't expect an understanding of sports nutrition as such but did they know what food made you stronger and what made you fat? Did they do physical exercise or did they get fit by practicing?
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Jun 23, 2016 21:53
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Frosted Flake posted:I was wondering about the diet, exercise and physical build of fighting men before the gunpowder age. The diet and exercise regimen of the Army now is less-than-ideal from a sports nutrition point of view, but it works. 3000 calories a day, with one grain, one protien one veg three times a day won't make you really built, or really lean but it will let you hump a ruck and dig a trench. From reading about daily life in the middle ages, most of the descriptions either focus on peasents eating bread and onions or the exotic feats of the nobility. Likewise they describe backbreaking physical labour on the fields or fencing drills and leisurely hunts on horseback. I also know that people were much smaller back then. Would a medieval knight be eating 200 grams of protien a day and have low bodyfat like a modern athlete? A medieval rich person's diet was essentially meat, meat, meat and more meat. And maybe porridge and bread on top of that if they felt like it. Nutrition wasn't very well understood, considering that gout was pretty much endemic earlier. People got fit by practicing and living active lives.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:02
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Kemper Boyd posted:Nutrition wasn't very well understood, considering that gout was pretty much endemic earlier.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:03
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HEY GAL posted:i looked this up actually! rates of gout are currently rising It's probably that all thoses dudes from the 17th century we read about are mostly rich fat fuckers so of course it seems like everyone has gout.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:06
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Kemper Boyd posted:rich fat fuckers
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Jun 23, 2016 22:08
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:there's only so many ways you can carry a heavy, long object. new thread (sub)title
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Jun 23, 2016 22:27
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Verisimilidude posted:Grip strength plays a huge role, obviously. If you can grip sufficiently stronger than the person pulling, you should be fine. Also kitchen knives tend to be insanely sharp, and the overall length means it is easier to pull forcefully than a sword. Would I personally do it? No, and I have pretty good grip strength, but it was certainly done historically and makes sense from a physics perspective. And besides, at the end of the day it also just makes sense from a survival perspective. Even if things go wrong and your hand does get injured, it's better to have a sword in your hand with a sliced palm than to have a sword in your guts with a sliced liver.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:28
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Frosted Flake posted:I was wondering about the diet, exercise and physical build of fighting men before the gunpowder age. The diet and exercise regimen of the Army now is less-than-ideal from a sports nutrition point of view, but it works. 3000 calories a day, with one grain, one protien one veg three times a day won't make you really built, or really lean but it will let you hump a ruck and dig a trench. From reading about daily life in the middle ages, most of the descriptions either focus on peasents eating bread and onions or the exotic feats of the nobility. Likewise they describe backbreaking physical labour on the fields or fencing drills and leisurely hunts on horseback. I also know that people were much smaller back then. Would a medieval knight be eating 200 grams of protien a day and have low bodyfat like a modern athlete? poo poo, this could be the next a diet fad, it just needs a bit of branding. I could make bank with this! "The Men in Tights Diet!"
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Jun 23, 2016 22:48
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Kemper Boyd posted:A medieval rich person's diet was essentially meat, meat, meat and more meat. The banquets were really insane, during a wedding in Milan in 1368 the guests had to struggle through seventeen courses. Every single one of them consisted of meat with more meat on the side. Frosted Flake posted:
They tried. Hildegard of Bingen wrote down some nutritional advise: Spelt is good for both your body and psyche. Nutmeg makes you less bitter. Radish and beets makes you unbalanced. Garden cress is bad for your milt. Milk makes you happier. Grain is good for you. Peas should only be eaten by healthy people, but pea soup can be good for sick people.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:58
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Thanks. I had no idea they had such diverse diets. I was trying to figure out how peasents could build enough muscle to draw those heavy bows or if the nobility was doing some kind of weight training to ease the weight of armour. I belive I read somewhere that a knight could do a handstand in well made armour, which I definitely couldn't do with my kevlar and plates now. E: is porridge the same as oatmeal like I would eat today? Frosted Flake fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 23:04
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Not super scientific, but relevant to the discussion: http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/i-tried-a-medieval-diet-and-i-didnt-even-get-that-drunk
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Jun 23, 2016 23:05
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Frosted Flake posted:Thanks. I had no idea they had such diverse diets. I was trying to figure out how peasents could build enough muscle to draw those heavy bows or if the nobility was doing some kind of weight training to ease the weight of armour. I belive I read somewhere that a knight could do a handstand in well made armour, which I definitely couldn't do with my kevlar and plates now. If you're interested in cutting edge tacticool from the 14th century, I really enjoy this nerd's videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FB0goDq38Q
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Jun 23, 2016 23:12
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Siivola posted:If you're interested in cutting edge tacticool from the 14th century, I really enjoy this nerd's videos: Interesting. I've seen (and felt!) what those rucks, webgear and armour do to your knees over time, I thought that maybe we still had it better than guys in metal suits. Since people in the middle ages weren't big on water, wouldn't people drop like flies from heat and dehydration? Sweating in metal and padded cloth and drinking watered down wine would put me in a stretcher if I had to do a day's fighting.
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Jun 23, 2016 23:36
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you drink water. gustavus adolphus was seen at breitenfeld yelling for some water then, hopped up on enough adrenaline to light up stockholm, galloping away before he could have any edit: Frosted Flake posted:Interesting. I've seen (and felt!) what those rucks, webgear and armour do to your knees over time, I thought that maybe we still had it better than guys in metal suits. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/csi-italian-renaissance-4796118/?all quote:The victim, it appeared, had suffered from several chronic and puzzling conditions. A CT scan and digital X-ray revealed a calcification of the knees, as well as a level of arthritis in elbows, hips and lumbar vertebrae surprisingly advanced for anyone this young.... HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 00:01
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Siivola posted:You can make porridge out of things that are not oats, but I think yes. Isn't porridge just a catch-all term to describe any kind of boiled grain mush?
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Jun 24, 2016 00:27
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Siivola posted:While looking into that, I ran into an interesting text about medieval farming. Looking at all the stuff grown in Britain, the average medieval peasant's diet doesn't sound too bad. Beans, peas and nuts are fine sources of protein, and I'd wager people would eat eggs and fish too even if they couldn't afford meat. Rye's a good grain, and cheese on rye bread is tasty and filling. If you feel like treating yourself, have some porridge with fruit or berries, or bake something nice. Really, this is all basically what modern vegetarians eat. Unless they lived like right next to the coast, probably not a lot of fish. Fishing lakes was a lord's right and even if John Q Peasant got the rights he's better off selling any fish he caught. This plus a lack of refrigeration made getting fish expensive. Plus people hoarding it for days you can't eat meat.
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Jun 24, 2016 02:04
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Frosted Flake posted:Since people in the middle ages weren't big on water, wouldn't people drop like flies from heat and dehydration? This is one of those things that's been exaggerated. Everybody back then drank water when they could if the water wasn't obviously unsafe.
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Jun 24, 2016 02:24
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Kemper Boyd posted:A medieval rich person's diet was essentially meat, meat, meat and more meat. And maybe porridge and bread on top of that if they felt like it. Nutrition wasn't very well understood, considering that gout was pretty much endemic earlier. You have no idea what you're talking about. Diet was regulated according to Galenic medicine (i.e. the four humours) and they ate plenty of things other than meat, though meat often provided the centerpiece (except during a fast period, then it was fish). I'll go through Redon, Sabban, and Serventi's book on medieval cooking when I get time, but I've made a very nice gnocchi with farmer cheese and wheat flour. Very tasty. ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:This is one of those things that's been exaggerated. Everybody back then drank water when they could if the water wasn't obviously unsafe. The saying goes "beer when I have it, water when I don't." Drinking water is boring as hell.
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Jun 24, 2016 02:43
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:The saying goes "beer when I have it, water when I don't." Drinking water is boring as hell. I thought that was obvious.
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Jun 24, 2016 02:49
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:I thought that was obvious. You said they drank water "when they could" which makes it sound like they preferred it to tastier beverages.
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Jun 24, 2016 02:56
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I still recommend The Supersizers to get a look at what historical English diets looked like in different time periods (though the pre-20th century ones mostly cover the wealthy). You don't get recipes, but you get to see what the final products look like and hear a modern perspective on the flavor, texture, and composition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjV2XaOQzx0 The French Revolution I think was the one that opened with a 3000 calorie breakfast feast. The Regency one (1790s-1820s) had Giles told that he probably would have been on his way to gout if he kept up the episode's diet long term.
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Jun 24, 2016 02:56
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