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Fojar38 posted:Warcraft dragons regularly turn into anime characters and cuddle with people/literally gently caress them. It sucks. Better than still loving people while in animal forms, like greek gods. The whole Horde Ony attune and killing her could be a movie script too.
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Jun 24, 2016 00:29
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AnonSpore posted:Alextrasza was made into a sexy blood elf and Ysera was made into a sexy night elf so logically Deathwing gets turned into a dude with hilarious widow's peak lord i'm glad i quit this poo poo at wc3.
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Jun 24, 2016 00:41
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I'm not seeing anything here that can't be described with the superlative "totally rulez"
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Jun 24, 2016 00:49
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To be fair Deathwing turning into a Human is actually from Warcraft 2. He attempts to marry Arthas' sister and pretends to be some noble from Alterac from memory, Lord Daval Prestor. He also gives the Orcs the Tool to enslave his sister Alextsrasza so they can breed drakes. The Dragons are actually a pretty good bit of lore that was mishandled terribly, as the basic background is they're meant to be guardians of an important part of Azeroth's titan ordered system. Alexstraza and the Red Dragonflight are in charge of guarding life, Malygos and the Blue watch over Arcane energy, Nozdormu and the Bronze ensure the Timeline follows the correct path, Ysera and the Green protect nature and the Emerald Dream which is basically a reset template for Azeroth should the Titans need it. Finally Neltharion and the Black should be protecting the Earth and the deep places, but in those deep places are the Old Gods, so Neltharion was driven mad and became Deathwing, who wants to kill everything that isn't a black dragon.
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Jun 24, 2016 02:49
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That sounds dumb. I like the very early Warcraft lore where it was just some small petty conflict in a seemingly vast and meaningless fantasy multiverse. Making the same small handful of characters appear again and again as the ultimate hinges in the destiny of the entire universe is such a played out and boring fantasy trope.
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Jun 24, 2016 03:15
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Warcraft lore was never good, not in vanilla wow, not in warcraft III, not in warcraft I. People love the idea that at one point it was good but it got ruined but really at one point everyone was 16 then later weren't 16 and realized it was a bad story and instead of realizing it's always been bad just started thinking it used to be good.
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Jun 24, 2016 03:55
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Nah it definitely took some very drastic shifts in tone and content. Unless you're arguing that it was a different KIND of bad back then
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Jun 24, 2016 04:11
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Lord_Magmar posted:To be fair Deathwing turning into a Human is actually from Warcraft 2. He attempts to marry Arthas' sister and pretends to be some noble from Alterac from memory, Lord Daval Prestor. He also gives the Orcs the Tool to enslave his sister Alextsrasza so they can breed drakes. No, it's not. Also, I think all the dragon stuff from WoW is stuff even Metzen said he regretted.
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Jun 24, 2016 05:23
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Fojar38 posted:Warcraft dragons regularly turn into anime characters and cuddle with people/literally gently caress them. It sucks. To be fair, this is D&D dragons too.
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Jun 24, 2016 10:15
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Just saw the movie, it was pretty good for a fan of the series but if I wasn't I probably wouldn't have found it too interesting. I do feel like they explain too little and move too fast though. Also, that dialogue was so loving awkward at times.
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Jun 24, 2016 20:37
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Lord_Magmar posted:To be fair Deathwing turning into a Human is actually from Warcraft 2. He attempts to marry Arthas' sister and pretends to be some noble from Alterac from memory, Lord Daval Prestor. He also gives the Orcs the Tool to enslave his sister Alextsrasza so they can breed drakes. that was a retcon
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Jun 24, 2016 22:44
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Terrible Opinions posted:that was a retcon No, the Daval Prestor stuff comes from the Warcraft novels that came out around 2000 or so. That's been part of the lore for a long-rear end time now and hasn't been contradicted since. Cardboard Box A posted:Fimmel also plays basically the same character he does in Vikings in Maggie's Plan but it's used to hilarious effect there. I love Travis Fimmel in Vikings but he was miscast in this movie. Since Fimmel was a farmer from Bumfuck, Australia, I like to imagine that he acts like an alien since he hasn't been around people before.
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Jun 25, 2016 00:36
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that's still a retcon. he was only ever a dragon in the game.Owlofcreamcheese posted:Warcraft lore was never good, not in vanilla wow, not in warcraft III, not in warcraft I. People love the idea that at one point it was good but it got ruined but really at one point everyone was 16 then later weren't 16 and realized it was a bad story and instead of realizing it's always been bad just started thinking it used to be good. it was never art but it had a fun tone to it and didn't get stupid comic book convuluted.
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Jun 25, 2016 00:50
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I think I would have enjoyed the movie if I was drinking but unfortunately I saw it while visiting my in-laws who are Southern Baptists and have never tasted alcohol in their lives. My friend saw it while stoned out of his mind and he loved it so much he's seen it five times so I think he's really onto something. I'm not sure if he was high every time but chances are good.
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Jun 25, 2016 01:03
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Groovelord Neato posted:that's still a retcon. he was only ever a dragon in the game. All of Warcraft is one giant rolling retcon, so I'm not sure what your point is. Warcraft II came of age 3-4 years before computers became powerful enough to run games with discernible plots using only the in-game engine. Before 2000 or so, protagonists in shooters don't even talk. So if Chris Metzen or whoever wants to do something with Warcraft II-era Deathwing other than "Deathwing: Definitely a dragon," good on him. As mentioned, D&D dragons have been sexing up humans (mostly to explain various half-dragon races) since forever, so as everything else in Warcraft, it's not exactly unprecedented.
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Jun 25, 2016 02:04
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i think the poo poo they did with dragons is the only thing metzen has said was a mistake. which is bizarre when you play through starcraft 2 and its expansions.
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Jun 25, 2016 02:07
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Yeah, Warcraft 2 is where the retcons start.Groovelord Neato posted:i think the poo poo they did with dragons is the only thing metzen has said was a mistake. which is bizarre when you play through starcraft 2 and its expansions. He's also realised (partly from having a daughter) that they've done a pretty lovely job with oversexualised female characters too.
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Jun 25, 2016 02:19
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:All of Warcraft is one giant rolling retcon, so I'm not sure what your point is. The point is someone claimed Deathwing turned into a human and tried to marry Arthas' sister in Warcraft II, but that actually happened in a 2001 novel by Richard Knaak. Before the sex stories, dragons were practically just animals, and supposedly, Metzen regrets the change in portrayal. I'm curious what else he would go back and change.
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Jun 25, 2016 02:46
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Okay I admittedly didn't know that the Lord Prestor stuff was from a novel, as I was merely reading a wiki and hadn't actually played Warcraft 2. I still disagree that making the Dragons actual characters was a bad thing, the way it's handled is bad but the idea of these great powerful creatures being a specifically designed tool of the world-shaping Titans and not just monsters for the sake of monsters is good. Similarly making Orcs more than just rampaging monsters was a good idea, it's just not always handled very well. Unfortunately Cataclysm makes them a tool designed to solve a problem created by the existence of said tool, so that they can be justified in writing them out whilst keeping Thrall around even though he chews up way more development time and gets to be the greatest shaman ever. The main reason I heard was because having these powerful creatures meant that players couldn't themselves feel powerful, which is stupid because there's a great reason for the Dragons to not do anything, they were given purpose and designed by the Titans, so just make them refuse to help if it isn't directly connected to their titan-mandated purpose. Other dragons who aren't bound to said purpose can still help out but the Aspects refuse to interfere unless necessary or something. This is sort of my belief about a lot of Warcraft Lore though, good ideas mishandled and misrepresented. On Alextrasza and Ysera wearing very little clothing I'd like to point out that in their true forms they're not wearing anything because they're loving dragons and the Night Elves, who they model themselves after, in general wear very revealing clothing because they're meant to be at one with Nature. I mean Malfurion and Illidan are both half-naked most of the time, and the only Night Elves who have always been portrayed as fully covered are the Wardens who are very specifically meant to keep Illidan locked up for eternity from memory. Heck part of the Night Elf backstory is they're the peasant revolt that succeeded in overthrowing the decadent and destructive high-borne before returning to their trees and living at one with the forests, they explicitly threw out anyone who might damage this balance. Which is where the High Elves come from as they weren't nobility but still kept up using arcane magic and so Tyrande/Malfurion exiled them.
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Jun 25, 2016 07:16
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Did the movie explain why Khadgar dropped out of wizard college? He renounced/revoked his vows but it wasn't ever really clear why. edit: no lore please
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Jun 25, 2016 08:01
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Just watched this last night. The script was awful, but the casting (That creepy looking guy is the king? What's with the mage's dirt moustache? Lothar's son is about 10 years younger than him, was his dead wife a paedo?) and performances were among the worst I've seen in a big budget movie. The final duel scene is comically anti-climactic and lame as gently caress. The mage duel was really uninspiring and again, ended in the lamest way imaginable. The only real redeeming quality that comes to mind is was the fight scenes featuring grunts and regular humans, where the film is prepared to show combat without plot armor making the sequence predictable. The CGI was generally excellent as well. I didn't hate it, but that might be because I've played the games.
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Jun 25, 2016 09:07
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well why not posted:Did the movie explain why Khadgar dropped out of wizard college? He renounced/revoked his vows but it wasn't ever really clear why. No, although the reason is that he's training under Medivh to replace him. Medivh also renounced those vows because he's not meant to be controlled by any singular human kingdom.
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Jun 25, 2016 09:18
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Saw it. As someone who was familiar with the lore somewhat, it was fun to see that stuff on screen. Gul'dan was creepy, Durotan was heroic, etc. It wasn't a good movie and would not recommend it to anyone who isn't into Warcraft stuff to begin with. Complicated stuff like Medivh actually being bad is just sort of dropped in with no explanation. The fel is just sort of there and the Burning Legion is never referenced altho I guess that would make it even more confusing to casual viewers. There is too much plot for one movie, an issue they solved by just going through it with no regard to whether anything makes sense or feels impactful.
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Jun 25, 2016 12:56
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Lord_Magmar posted:No, although the reason is that he's training under Medivh to replace him. Medivh also renounced those vows because he's not meant to be controlled by any singular human kingdom. Not in the movie, he apparently was majoring pre-guardian but dropped out. Khadgar mentions renouncing any desire to be guardian.
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Jun 25, 2016 13:38
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Lord_Magmar posted:Okay I admittedly didn't know that the Lord Prestor stuff was from a novel, as I was merely reading a wiki and hadn't actually played Warcraft 2. I still disagree that making the Dragons actual characters was a bad thing, the way it's handled is bad but the idea of these great powerful creatures being a specifically designed tool of the world-shaping Titans and not just monsters for the sake of monsters is good. Similarly making Orcs more than just rampaging monsters was a good idea, it's just not always handled very well. no it's dumb as poo poo. monsters are cool.
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Jun 25, 2016 15:30
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Warcraft lore was never good, not in vanilla wow, not in warcraft III, not in warcraft I. People love the idea that at one point it was good but it got ruined but really at one point everyone was 16 then later weren't 16 and realized it was a bad story and instead of realizing it's always been bad just started thinking it used to be good. I'll admit Warcraft I and to a lesser extent Warcraft II have pretty basic premises to service RTS mission based gameplay, the story in Warcraft III still holds up and was very groundbreaking for its time. World of Warcraft added a lot of cool lore but hosed up the story because MMO gameplay really isn't designed to tell a story no matter how hard it tries.
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Jun 25, 2016 17:06
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The story of WC3 does not hold up because is was utter tripe from the beginning. Arthas's campaign is a lovely nonsensical story just to set up an Elric "The undead are killing my people! I will take any measure to stop them including using a macguffin that makes me an undead that kills my people!" (And oh what an out-of-nowhere makes-no-sense-how-it-got-there not-stormbringer MacGuffin Frostmourne is).
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Jun 25, 2016 17:43
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Paolomania posted:The story of WC3 does not hold up because is was utter tripe from the beginning. Arthas's campaign is a lovely nonsensical story just to set up an Elric "The undead are killing my people! I will take any measure to stop them including using a macguffin that makes me an undead that kills my people!" (And oh what an out-of-nowhere makes-no-sense-how-it-got-there not-stormbringer MacGuffin Frostmourne is). Mal'ganis ran north specifically to get him to the sword. It's not nonsensical, it's as straightforward as it could possibly be.
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Jun 25, 2016 17:50
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Paolomania posted:The story of WC3 does not hold up because is was utter tripe from the beginning. Arthas's campaign is a lovely nonsensical story just to set up an Elric "The undead are killing my people! I will take any measure to stop them including using a macguffin that makes me an undead that kills my people!" (And oh what an out-of-nowhere makes-no-sense-how-it-got-there not-stormbringer MacGuffin Frostmourne is). Replay WC3.
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Jun 25, 2016 18:33
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It would have been cool to have the dragons be like they were in WoW (intelligent, having agendas, etc) but also because they're just constructs of the titans or whatever they're incomprehensible animals to everyone.
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Jun 25, 2016 19:03
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I don't like the dragons because they're always doing weird rapey stuff.
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Jun 26, 2016 00:16
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CJ posted:I don't like the dragons because they're always doing weird rapey stuff. "Weird rapey stuff" is sadly kind of hard to escape from in fantasy these days.
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Jun 26, 2016 02:18
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MiddleOne posted:Mal'ganis ran north specifically to get him to the sword. It's not nonsensical, it's as straightforward as it could possibly be. An Orc shaman that made a pact with a demon had his soul ripped from his body on Draenor. This soul was entrapped in an inanimate helmet. This helmet was then put in a block of ice in Northrend and for some reason the traitorous soul was put in charge of a major demon operation. This inanimate helmet also somehow forged the sword Frostmourne (and fancy pedestal with ominous engraving) and emitted it from the ice block (???????) because of course a Lordaeron anti hero would be baited by a demon to come along to pick it up. It does not make sense - you must aquit.
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Jun 26, 2016 15:15
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Demon's are spiteful, so when someone they thought was on the level proves to be a traitor they punish him through permanent servitude to their cause. The sword was forged alongside the armour by the demons so they had something to bond the soul of said traitor to. The Helmet just lets you control Undead and has the majority of the soul of the traitor from memory. However they realised that without a body to move the armour around they'd just created a very elaborate conversation piece, so one of the Demons decides to go "recruit" a prince to wear the armour and use the sword. Unfortunately he didn't count on the traitor deciding to once again betray the demons, which he really should have, and decided to just stand there when the prince took the sword to him. The prince of course was a proud and just leader who felt he had to save his kingdom and kill this demonic interloper no matter what, and in doing so lost sight of his own humanity until he finally gave up his soul to the sword just to kill the demon.
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Jun 26, 2016 16:14
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Paolomania posted:An Orc shaman that made a pact with a demon had his soul ripped from his body on Draenor. This soul was entrapped in an inanimate helmet. This helmet was then put in a block of ice in Northrend and for some reason the traitorous soul was put in charge of a major demon operation. This inanimate helmet also somehow forged the sword Frostmourne (and fancy pedestal with ominous engraving) and emitted it from the ice block (???????) because of course a Lordaeron anti hero would be baited by a demon to come along to pick it up. It does not make sense - you must aquit. I'm not under the illusion that any warcraft game has ever had some masterpiece of writing for a story but your posts about this are real bad.
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Jun 26, 2016 20:32
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Paolomania posted:An Orc shaman that made a pact with a demon had his soul ripped from his body on Draenor. This soul was entrapped in an inanimate helmet. This helmet was then put in a block of ice in Northrend and for some reason the traitorous soul was put in charge of a major demon operation. This inanimate helmet also somehow forged the sword Frostmourne (and fancy pedestal with ominous engraving) and emitted it from the ice block (???????) because of course a Lordaeron anti hero would be baited by a demon to come along to pick it up. It does not make sense - you must aquit. In the vacuum of WC3 and TFT it makes perfect sense. 
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Jun 26, 2016 23:26
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I was tricked into seeing this movie by idiots I thought were people with taste who told me it was good but alas it was the dumbest movie I've ever seen and I have never felt that a movie has no redeeming qualities before but alas
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Jun 28, 2016 23:46
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gently caress nerds
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Jun 28, 2016 23:47
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Watch more movies.
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Jun 28, 2016 23:50
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MiddleOne posted:In the vacuum of WC3 and TFT it makes perfect sense. The Lich King arc in TFT is a perfectly fine march towards a cursed fate, but for me it doesn't fully cleanse the palate of the forced feeling of the Frostmourne arc from WC3.
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Jun 29, 2016 07:12
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