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Pluskut Tukker posted:Given what the economies of some US states look like, I'm not so sure you can use the USA as some sort of shining example to be followed - fiscal federalism certainly hasn't helped Mississippi become all that much less of a shithole, has it? Besides, all US states other than Vermont are required to run balanced budgets according to their own laws or constitutions, which means that the states punish themselves in an economic downturn as opposed to the central government doing it. Florida would have no room at all to commit to extra spending on Keynesian stimulus during a recession. Have the republicans managed to do this to every state now? I thought balanced budget amendments were the new cool thing to attract fiscal conservatives with zero understanding of fiscal policy.
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Jun 23, 2016 16:51
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Arglebargle III posted:It was answered a little flip I thought and wasn't sure if it was real. You might find this guide to the formal organization of the EU useful then. There was also an excellent 3-part series by Peter Spiegel at the FT called 'How the euro was saved' explaining the EU response to the debt crisis. Link here, google the title to get around the paywall. Arglebargle III posted:Have the republicans managed to do this to every state now? I thought balanced budget amendments were the new cool thing to attract fiscal conservatives with zero understanding of fiscal policy. I believe it's always been the case (not up to date on the exact rules in place in the USA, here's an explainer FWIW), the balanced budget amendment Republicans sometimes talk about would apply to the Federal government, and be even more disastrous. Pluskut Tukker fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 17:00
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CommieGIR posted:What's going on with the shooting in a theater in Germany? Everything is fine. Police shot the guy, some people got hit by CS gas but are fine, no injured. Police says dude was probably not a terrorist, looked and behaved like someone with mental illness. They have not confirmed if the weapon used was actually real.
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Jun 23, 2016 17:01
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Given what the economies of some US states look like, I'm not so sure you can use the USA as some sort of shining example to be followed - fiscal federalism certainly hasn't helped Mississippi become all that much less of a shithole, has it? Besides, all US states other than Vermont are required to run balanced budgets according to their own laws or constitutions, which means that the states punish themselves in an economic downturn as opposed to the central government doing it. Florida would have no room at all to commit to extra spending on Keynesian stimulus during a recession. Mississippi is still significantly better off than it would be if the US was a current EU-type or Articles Of Confederation-type system. Also, the "balanced budget amendments" are most of the time in name only. That aside, the federal government can perform Keynesian stimulus regardless of state laws. So you're basically explaining again why a current EU style system would be worse for us, just as it us worse for you
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Jun 23, 2016 17:07
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waitwhatno posted:Everything is fine. Police shot the guy, some people got hit by CS gas but are fine, no injured. Police says dude was probably not a terrorist, looked and behaved like someone with mental illness. They have not confirmed if the weapon used was actually real. So, white guy then?
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Jun 23, 2016 18:16
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CommieGIR posted:What's going on with the shooting in a theater in Germany? I can't see any indication that anyone died apart from the shooter, though I look forward to this incident being used in future gun control arguments regardless.
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Jun 23, 2016 21:46
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Polls in the UK are closed.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:04
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Apparently both Farage and Johnson are already predicting a Bremain win.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:09
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It's a little unorthodox but I suppose if you want to discuss this terrible idea then the UK IRC channel is seeing a string of non-Brits popping in with their popcorn ready and adult diapers on to watch this poo poo. For those who know how: irc.synirc.net #ukgoons
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Jun 23, 2016 23:17
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Looks like sanity prevailed this time, good job everyone. Now all we need is a landslide Trump defeat and I can start feeling human again.
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Jun 23, 2016 23:44
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Don't be sure sure. Results look lower than the polls
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Jun 24, 2016 00:04
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What really, really bothers me is that this vote mirrors two decades of elections in Spain, and by that I mean the lack of choice. For a long time now in Spain we've had to choose between bad, pro-rich, anti-poor economic policies combined with social conservativism, and bad, pro-rich, anti-poor economic policies with social progressivism. Elections have gotten very polarized about issues, yes, and we've changed governments, yes.... But we have never been able to choose for different economic policies. And that is what bothers me most about all this, that it's all the same thing. We have all become very polarized in the run up to the referendum (lord [vader] knows I've done my part), and at the end of the day, well, the choice wasn't really one. Whatever comes out, we know how the economy is going to work. Or rather, who is it going to be made to work for. And that makes me sad.
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Jun 24, 2016 00:39
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holy poo poo BBC calls it to Leave. What the hell have they done Seriously, stop it UK
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Jun 24, 2016 04:40
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That'll teach you to bet on the UK not being full of inbred retards!
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Jun 24, 2016 05:10
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Well now, Brexit it is.
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Jun 24, 2016 05:11
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Jun 24, 2016 05:13
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Holy poo poo, you guys are hosed.
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Jun 24, 2016 05:14
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How long until the 2nd Scottish independence vote? 
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Jun 24, 2016 05:17
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Je suis EU. 
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Jun 24, 2016 05:23
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waitwhatno posted:Looks like sanity prevailed this time, good job everyone. Now all we need is a landslide Trump defeat and I can start feeling human again.  credit to some goon in scotpol Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 05:47
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MiddleOne posted:Je suis EU.
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Jun 24, 2016 05:59
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Jun 24, 2016 06:00
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Jun 24, 2016 06:11
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Ahaha, amazing that Cameron managed to get the UK out of the EU simply because he wanted to become prime-minister.
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Jun 24, 2016 06:14
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waitwhatno posted:Looks like sanity prevailed this time, good job everyone. Now all we need is a landslide Trump defeat and I can start feeling human again. lol =)
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Jun 24, 2016 06:16
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Guess what, no one likes you dude. Even if you do implement some sensible legislation once in a while. Greece really was the herald of the beginning of the end. 
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Jun 24, 2016 06:22
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MiddleOne posted:Greece really was the herald of the beginning of the end. Id love to be a fly on the wall anf find out if the Djoesselbloms and Schaubles were cynical about Greece or they have drunk the kool-aid and think themselves righteous.
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Jun 24, 2016 06:28
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This results are non-binding right? Wouldn't it be possible for whoever is PM after Cameron resigns to take this results to the EU and use them to negotiate whatever liberal snowflake agreements they want and then come back and assuage British Nationalism with that, and stay in. How likely is that scenario. Would the brits accept that?
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Jun 24, 2016 06:35
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Legally, sure. It would be political suicide, and might be actually impossible for many reasons. The nationalist didn't win with rational arguments to begin with so no negotiated deal will appease them.
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Jun 24, 2016 06:38
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Wili posted:This results are non-binding right? The EU will not allow that to happen. The Nationalists in the UK will probably not allow it either.
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Jun 24, 2016 06:38
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MiddleOne posted:Greece really was the herald of the beginning of the end. loving called it. Friendly Tumour posted:So anyway since the Greek exit from the Euro and likely subsequent existential catastrophe for the EU as a whole seems likely, has there been any discussion as to how the EU might dismantle itself without destroying everyone involved?
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Jun 24, 2016 06:52
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In the grand scheme of things, the EU really should kick out or let leave the states that don't actually want to be in it. Want as in are willing to follow the rules and pay the costs. So, good riddance. If that means the union becomes smaller and weaker, so be it.
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Jun 24, 2016 06:56
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Wili posted:This results are non-binding right? This is too big a question, there would be blood in the streets. Friendly Humour posted:loving called it. I can't quote the old thread but, MiddleOne posted:Summer last year was when the EU entered its death throes, a succesful Brexit would be nothing more than a mercy killing. MiddleOne posted:Even as a bluff it's mind-boggling, they're essentially pushing Syriza towards a default which would ironically have the exact same implications as a haircut (the bonds becoming worth less than toilet paper) but only 10 times worse as it would include an exit by Greece and vastly increased instability in the EU. Not to mention that it is as we speak legitimising every anti-EU party in the Union which could have loving disastrous implications when the UK finally gets around to having the vote Cameron promised. Bless you Cameron and Merkel you massive loving idiots. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 06:57
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I seriously doubt any more than a slight fraction of the Leavers in the UK really gave a flying gently caress about what happened with Greece.
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Jun 24, 2016 07:02
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where's my popcorn? This is going to be a crazy show in the next few days.
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Jun 24, 2016 07:02
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So uhh best 2 out of 3? Guys? /e hah, Hugh Laurie is with me https://twitter.com/hughlaurie/status/746209852930719744 Sereri fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 07:03
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MiddleOne posted:Greece really was the herald of the beginning of the end. A Brexit will do wonders for the internal cohesion of the EU, though it won't be nearly enough to make up for the last few expansion rounds. They weren't part of Schengen or the Euro anyway so who really gives a poo poo as a regular European. The economy will suffer but it will normalize after a while.
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Jun 24, 2016 07:16
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How likely is it that the EU will now become more "cohesive"? There were people saying that brexit would be good because now the euro federalism can deepen, and those pointing out that anti-EU sentiment has grown everywhere. Donald Tusk seems to be in the latter category of viewing further integration as unlikely. Personally, I don't think it was Britain holding the EU back, or at least it isn't now.
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Jun 24, 2016 07:22
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Hahaha poo poo. I really thought they'd remain when going to sleep yesterday. But maybe now France and the Mediterranean countries will overpower Germany and we can have a neo leftist union based on solidarity and "gently caress les rosbifs"
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Jun 24, 2016 07:22
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It's that sort of attitude that reminds me of the Scottish referendum, when the leftist clique believed that the Scottish electorate were far more leftwing than they really are, according to polling on most issues, and that Scottish indy would be an opportunity for have a socialist government. But it seemed more likely in the event of indy that the SNP would have split betwene it's left- and right wings, with people possible voting for a centre-left party at most, but them voting for a more rightwing party seemed like a very real possibility too. My understanding on European nations politics is imperfect but I don't see how the EU is now suddenly going to become a more leftwing or federalist project. At the very least it may have to start shedding more members for that to happen.
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Jun 24, 2016 07:29
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