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Welp, you guys are making the news now - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/22/venezuela-economic-crisis-guardian-briefing
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Jun 22, 2016 11:00
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| # ? May 22, 2024 19:07 |
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Henrique Capriles said yesterday that they had verified 158,000 signatures, which is within striking distance of the 197,721 goal needed before the end of the week. He also said that yesterday alone 85,000 signatures were verified. There's also all kinds of shenanigans going on in terms of people being discouraged/intimidated/prevented from going to verify their signatures. I've just read that the National Guard stopped a couple of buses in Bejuma and Lagunita that were carrying people on their way to verify their signatures. Remember that there are only 300 verification machines in the whole country, meaning that depending on where you live you might have to travel quite a distance to verify.
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Jun 22, 2016 14:54
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Labradoodle posted:Well, the government has already publicly denied humanitarian aid. It's pretty safe to say they don't care what Venezuelans think, as far as the official party lines go there's no one going hungry or dying due to lack of medicine in Venezuela, we're just going through a rough patch due to the "economic war". Any foreign aid from the US is either directly from government or a corporation. Even if you get an NGO, that NGO is getting it's money from USAID/US STATE/US DOD or the same corporations. So if you really believe that the US and corporations are bad, then taking any aid from the US is suicidal because there are no sources of aid that aren't directly linked to the intelligence, defense, and corporate entities. Speaking as someone who worked for various NGOs giving aid and not letting STATE/DOD or a corporation control it is a non starter and should be laughed out of the room and the person suggesting it locked up in an asylum. Because if your security forces aren't there controlling it the local strongman does, entrenches his power, and the people who need it get squat. You go in there with the military or private security contractors or you don't go at all. So unless Maduro is willing to let the US Navy and US Marines post up and do this with some NGOs it's probably a non starter. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. USN/USMC are actually pretty drat good at distributing food and medical supplies, it's a huge part of what they do. But I'm not sure how well the Maduro government will take USN carriers and hospital ships rolling up there with a cross mix of sailors and marines working with NGOs to distribute things and make sure it doesn't get out of hand. And I'm not sure how keen the Obama administration would be with "LOL no just give us all the supplies and we distribute them", generally once you're in the situation where you need food and medicine by the ton shits so out of control you don't have the ability, or are to corrupt to be trusted, to run proper distribution channels. Which is why it's usually better to accept foreign aid before it reaches the point where the security and logistical issues are so large. It's also not a good idea to make boogeymen out of the people who are able to pull this off. But this situation has festered for a while.
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Jun 22, 2016 15:24
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MysteriousStranger posted:Any foreign aid from the US is either directly from government or a corporation. Even if you get an NGO, that NGO is getting it's money from USAID/US STATE/US DOD or the same corporations. So if you really believe that the US and corporations are bad, then taking any aid from the US is suicidal because there are no sources of aid that aren't directly linked to the intelligence, defense, and corporate entities. Maduro isn't going to accept ANY kind of help, since Venezuela is in perfect shape and only suffering a little bit from the global conspiracy against our sovereignty. You can get as much food as you want, just look how round and plump our leaders are!
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Jun 22, 2016 16:20
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I would hope that intervention and/or aid would come from other OAS states but they have been pretty bad at this so far. If Venezuela collapses they'll be most directly affected out of other countries so you'd think they would want to stave that off instead of making deals with Maduro.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:00
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Mozi posted:I would hope that intervention and/or aid would come from other OAS states but they have been pretty bad at this so far. If Venezuela collapses they'll be most directly affected out of other countries so you'd think they would want to stave that off instead of making deals with Maduro. Counterpoint: Have you seen just how many $100 bills you can fit in a travel suitcase these days?
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Jun 22, 2016 17:45
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Just throw it over the wall for the nuns
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Jun 22, 2016 19:48
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Here is a short NYTimes video on the food shortages. No information we don't know already but some footage of looting I haven't seen before. He also mentions rising feelings against Chinese people, which isn't going to lead anywhere good.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:20
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What people don't realize in their anger is that these Arab, Chinese, Portuguese, etc families with their grocery stores are actually good for the neighborhood and the economy in general and looting them and putting them out of business is only going to make things worse for everyone. There's a lot of resentment towards foreigners because of their success but I don't get it, most of them are hard working people, most of them earned their success.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:44
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MysteriousStranger posted:Any foreign aid from the US is either directly from government or a corporation. Even if you get an NGO, that NGO is getting it's money from USAID/US STATE/US DOD or the same corporations. So if you really believe that the US and corporations are bad, then taking any aid from the US is suicidal because there are no sources of aid that aren't directly linked to the intelligence, defense, and corporate entities. Oh yeah, USN loving owns as an aid delivery service.  I'm most familiar with their post-natural-disaster work, where they're vital because they can pop up pretty much anywhere on the planet on relatively short notice with metal boxes full of trained personnel, medical supplies, and a reasonable amount of other supplies.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:48
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Mozi posted:Here is a short NYTimes video on the food shortages. No information we don't know already but some footage of looting I haven't seen before. He also mentions rising feelings against Chinese people, which isn't going to lead anywhere good. El Hefe posted:What people don't realize in their anger is that these Arab, Chinese, Portuguese, etc families with their grocery stores are actually good for the neighborhood and the economy in general and looting them and putting them out of business is only going to make things worse for everyone.
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Jun 22, 2016 21:50
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Even though Maduro said there wouldn't be dialogue he ended up meeting with Shannon today it's obvious the things he says on TV are just for show...
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Jun 22, 2016 21:58
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Any chance for Maduro offering food aid for starving children in Appalachia? In seriousness, the IMF has been talking a lot the past few years about how they've learned their lesson from shock therapy and how demands for austerity in an economic decline are a mistake. Venezuela will be an opportunity for them to put their money where their mouth is. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jun 23, 2016 |
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Jun 23, 2016 01:04
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JeffersonClay posted:Any chance for Maduro offering food aid for starving children in Appalachia? The curious thing is that Venezuela is already applying at least some kind of shock therapy to its citizens. Imports have shrunk to like a third of what they were before oil fell (while we're still paying our debtors) and we're seeing the consequences right now. If anything, at least we can take comfort in the fact that Venezuela will be a mainstay of economic studies for a few decades to come.
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Jun 23, 2016 01:17
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For every $100 Venezuela earns we have to spend $60 paying our foreign debt...
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Jun 23, 2016 01:32
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Mozi posted:He also mentions rising feelings against Chinese people, which isn't going to lead anywhere good. I've seen this mentioned in other articles, particularly paired with reports that Chinese officials have begun meeting with opposition leaders about honoring debts racked up by the PSUV in the event that the opposition gains control of the government. From what I gather part of it is scapegoating foreigners during bad times, but the Chinese are getting it worst than most due to a sense that the government sold out the country to China.
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Jun 23, 2016 01:41
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Maduro's stance on power is so loving weak that he passed on authorizing higher denomination bills (Remember, the highest denomination bill is 100 bolivares, which is worth under 10 US cents). He refused the printing of 500, 1000 and 2000 bolivares bills, because that would go against the agenda that inflation is caused by speculation and economic war, which nobody actually believes. He's unable to do the one thing he can do right now to aid the economy that has no downsides, simply because he's unable to break keyfabe.
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Jun 23, 2016 06:46
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Oh yeah, USN loving owns as an aid delivery service. Also, they have guns. I was enlisted Navy, then contractor, and then worked for various NGO's that got money from USAID/STATE. Delivering aid is loving dangerous. You need private security contractors or the military. You often get attacked doing it. That can be food riots or desperate people you're trying to help, or whatever locals in power who are there that do not like you screwing around on their turf. To say nothing of the fact that a lot of aid workers in NGO are do-gooder-yuppie-women, and they routinely got raped by the locals if they were dumb enough to venture off compound without guards. Which happens all the time because "the beautiful people of sub-Saharan Africa are not violent, only capitalism/colonialism is violent". The Navy can get anywhere, comes with a ton of food/medical supplies, and is armed to the loving teeth. So food riots, violent local powers, and off compound stupidity do not happen that often. It's widely known that showing up to deliver aid without private security contractors is looking for problems, and even with them a fair amount of sexual assaults/kidnappings/robberies are still going to go down because people will wander off without security. On the other hand, delivering aid through the USN/USMC delivers more aid, faster, to more areas, and the amount of robbery type fiascos goes way down.
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Jun 23, 2016 13:59
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The OAS debate on whether to apply the Democratic Charter is happening NOW. I'm watching via http://ntn24.com/envivo (Spanish only)
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Jun 23, 2016 16:12
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Delcy Rodríguez is a crazy person. She's going on about how this is all a plan to prepare a military intervention and that there is no humanitarian crisis in Venezuela. Also, she compares the process to the Spanish Inquisition.
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Jun 23, 2016 18:44
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Bolivia and Nicaragua must be ashamed, awful loving governments, the blood from all the deaths from lack of medicines, riots and lootings are on their hands, whatever happens here they are as responsible as the PSUV.
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Jun 23, 2016 19:08
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El Hefe posted:Bolivia and Nicaragua must be ashamed, awful loving governments, the blood from all the deaths from lack of medicines, riots and lootings are on their hands, whatever happens here they are as responsible as the PSUV. I had the impression they were sort of sidekicks to the Big Dogs of Chavez/Maduro and the Castro Brothers.
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Jun 23, 2016 21:34
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The government from all these countries voted no to even discussing the possible application of the democratic charter all enemies of the Venezuelan people, and they are all obviously in the PSUV's pocket.
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Jun 23, 2016 23:37
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El Hefe posted:The government from all these countries voted no to even discussing the possible application of the democratic charter I forgot that some of those were even separate and independent. 
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Jun 24, 2016 02:18
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MysteriousStranger posted:To say nothing of the fact that a lot of aid workers in NGO are do-gooder-yuppie-women, and they routinely got raped by the locals if they were dumb enough to venture off compound without guards. Which happens all the time because "the beautiful people of sub-Saharan Africa are not violent, only capitalism/colonialism is violent." hmmmmmmmmmmm
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Jun 24, 2016 02:21
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I forgot that some of those were even separate and independent. They are barely countries, put all those little islands together and there aren't enough people to fill a small Venezuelan town.
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Jun 24, 2016 03:16
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MysteriousStranger posted:To say nothing of the fact that a lot of aid workers in NGO are do-gooder-yuppie-women, and they routinely got raped by the locals if they were dumb enough to venture off compound without guards. Which happens all the time because "the beautiful people of sub-Saharan Africa are not violent, only capitalism/colonialism is violent". lol
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Jun 24, 2016 03:34
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The PSUV are trying to spin what happened yesterday at OAS as a victory for them lol, even though they lost the vote 20 to 12 with mainly tiny island nations supporting them.
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Jun 24, 2016 15:59
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What did end up happening? Anything concrete?
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Jun 24, 2016 16:21
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Almagro prepared a report on Venezuela's current situation and the vote was to whether to discuss it or not. he delivered the report to all the member states but they didn't vote on activating the democratic charter just yet, it may happen on a later date. Just the fact that the report was even discussed represents a win for the opposition imho.
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Jun 24, 2016 16:38
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Reading about politics in other countries and it's comforting to realize that even in big, powerful, wealthy countries like the U.S and U.K voters are still as dumb and as misinformed as they are in this third world shithole.
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Jun 24, 2016 17:00
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El Hefe posted:Reading about politics in other countries and it's comforting to realize that even in big, powerful, wealthy countries like the U.S and U.K voters are still as dumb and as misinformed as they are in this third world shithole. One thing I have learned throughout history is bad things happen from leaders that use nationalism to turn public opinion against some outside group of people or some minority group. Though as long as we keep falling for it bad leaders will continue to use this tactic. Especially after they gain power to an even far worse effect.
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Jun 24, 2016 17:45
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I can't believe my luck that this Brexit poo poo is happening 2 weeks before I leave Venezuela for Sweden using my UK passport.
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Jun 24, 2016 17:49
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El Hefe posted:Reading about politics in other countries and it's comforting to realize that even in big, powerful, wealthy countries like the U.S and U.K voters are still as dumb and as misinformed as they are in this third world shithole. The beauty of the U.S. system is that we have about eight trillion things in place to prevent voters from turning things to complete and total poo poo unless they decide to be idiots for about 20 years in a row, which is more than enough time for voters to inevitably get sick of whoever is in charge. Of course, this also means people inevitably give the keys to shitheads for a period of time, but oh well.
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Jun 24, 2016 17:52
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El Hefe posted:Reading about politics in other countries and it's comforting to realize that even in big, powerful, wealthy countries like the U.S and U.K voters are still as dumb and as misinformed as they are in this third world shithole. Now's the time to start buying up pounds sterling with your bolivars? My daughter has (or had) a classmate who is the son of San Francisco Giants outfielder Gregor Blanco. I cringe a little because our PTA asked him to contribute a healthy sum to the school, to help close a budget gap that would have meant losing two teachers. Then I looked up how many teachers salaries that would be in Venezuela and  How high is the profile of the Venezuelan MLB contingent? Is there a political dimension to being a Venezuelan baseball player? I know lots of major and minor league baseball pros play Venezuelan winter league ball, but I wonder if that can continue in the face of the humanitarian crisis? Or maybe, it must continue because of the crisis? Is there an ask a Venezuelan thread I haven't spotted? Please stay safe venegoon.
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Jun 24, 2016 17:58
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If you are a MLB player you don't come back to Venezuela and you take every single member of your family out of the country unless you want to pay and maintain a Chavez family level of bodyguards, otherwise you and your loved ones will get kidnapped as soon as they land. There was a time when they used to come play during the winter but not anymore.
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Jun 24, 2016 19:51
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That happened in 2011 to Wilson Ramos, for example. Was back to play winter ball and was with his family when he was abducted by four armed men. He was rescued, fortunately, but yeah.
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Jun 24, 2016 19:54
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fnox posted:I can't believe my luck that this Brexit poo poo is happening 2 weeks before I leave Venezuela for Sweden using my UK passport. You'll be fine. Just make sure you get in there sooner rather than later. Timelines aren't clear yet but it'll take longer than this before we start getting deported. (UK citizen living in Germany here btw)Not that I don't think that we will get deported if we already live and work in the EU. Unless whichever government is in charge of the UK when negotiating our exit does decide to got full retard and they start to deport all EU citizens out of the UK. Munin fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2016 01:46
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fnox posted:I can't believe my luck that this Brexit poo poo is happening 2 weeks before I leave Venezuela for Sweden using my UK passport. Your UK passport will still work for the EU for months, and if you're worried about getting sent back to VZ don't be; not to put too fine a point on it but by the time the UK actually formally leaves anyone from Venezuela will likely qualify for asylum.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:53
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| # ? May 22, 2024 19:07 |
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Venezuela opposition says petition to oust Maduro is validated Venezuelan opposition leaders say they have validated enough signatures on a petition to move to the next stage in a process to remove President Nicolas Maduro in a recall referendum. Hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans have given fingerprints to authenticate signatures on the petition. Referendum co-ordinator Vicente Bello said the number of signatures had "clearly exceeded the minimum needed". The process must now be validated by electoral officials. If that step is passed, a second petition must be signed by four million people before a recall referendum can be held. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-36628283 So they have to do this again? What happens if that one passes, I bet Maduro says , "nope 3rd times a charm." http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2016/06/24/criminals-now-stealing-food-from-venezuela-schools-as-scarcity-spreads/?intcmp=hplnws People are taking the schools food supplies now as well.
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Jun 25, 2016 16:24
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