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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I agree, Lew Moxon should be used again. Batman: The Brave and The Bold had a fun episode where Batman went back in time and got to hang out with his Dad on that night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDymKJfPwCI
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Jun 24, 2016 18:23
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Like if we want to talk about this on a purely narrative level batman has effectively stopped normal crime from happening in no small part thanks to spending a gently caress load of money on programs to help people not need to turn to crime to survive It's why the only crimes we actually see involve umbrellas and giant pennies
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Jun 24, 2016 18:24
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Literally The Worst posted:A) that sounds boring as poo poo narratively B) I've talked to some cops and they insist that locking up a career criminal for even a few months will spare the public from suffering hundreds of offences (it's actually pretty easy to get away with a single crime). Prisons can't reform criminals but they can't protect the public by keeping them off the streets.
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Jun 24, 2016 18:29
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Timeless Appeal posted:Shirley Walker is amazing. Was. She died ten years ago. 
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Jun 24, 2016 18:31
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Literally The Worst posted:That's what you call a side effect of using the DKR version of the character without understanding why it worked in that story and cramming it into a totally different kind of story Actually, both tell pretty different scenarios. For instance, the drama between Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne is completely different, with the former no longer being a 'sell-out' and the latter no longer being able to say he isn't personally responsible for the existence of the mutant gangs/sons of batman. The cool thing about the graphic novel is that in the beginning, the illustrations are so compact and dense with conflicting information and perspectives that some of the panels are down right incomprehensible to read. But as the series progressed, the dense, conflicting aesthetic remained, but the actual content of the narrative becomes almost anti-climactic in how clear it is, working towards this really complicated ending where so many voices are heard on this whole 'social issue' regarding the Bat, while the moral credibility of Batman is preserved. In Beavis, Clark is this young buck coming onto the hero-ing scene, and it's actually Bruce who's the sell-out.
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Jun 24, 2016 18:32
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Bruce hasn't sold out to anybody, he's just an idiot.
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Jun 24, 2016 18:34
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Kurzon posted:B) I've talked to some cops and they insist that locking up a career criminal for even a few months will spare the public from suffering hundreds of offences (it's actually pretty easy to get away with a single crime). Prisons can't reform criminals but they can't protect the public by keeping them off the streets. You believe this poo poo when cops tell you it?
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Jun 24, 2016 18:37
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Furthermore, every criminal Judge Dredd shoots is a cycle of crime ended.
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Jun 24, 2016 18:38
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Kurzon posted:A) Then why do you read Batman comics? Bruce Wayne signing checks sounds way more boring than Batman planting his fist in a criminal's face. So why don't you go jack them off in person instead of doing it here (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 24, 2016 18:42
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Also they're idiots because it turns out that our justice system does nothing to prevent more crime from happening
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Jun 24, 2016 18:42
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Literally The Worst posted:Also they're idiots because it turns out that our justice system does nothing to prevent more crime from happening Batman does nothing to prevent more supercrime from happening, the Joker always escapes from Arkham
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Jun 24, 2016 18:47
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Our criminal justice system isn't failing because there's not enough reactionary violence against criminals. But this is why the spectacle of crime-fighting makes us feel good. It allows us to live through this myth that crime is this flamboyant entity that can be grappled with. And at the same time, we like the fictional crime because it validates this fantasy.
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Jun 24, 2016 18:53
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Kurzon posted:^^ Why doesn't any Batman story touch on this? They do and have. Bruce Wayne went through FBI training. The real reason is because he refuses to use guns, even though he aced marksmanship. Bruce Wayne traveled the entire world learning martial arts, detective skills, and even escape artistry. He went out in like a ski mask for a bit and kept getting his rear end kicked, which is what inspired the Bat persona, so he could use fear as an edge. Snowglobe of Doom posted:Batman does nothing to prevent more supercrime from happening, the Joker always escapes from Arkham That's not his responsibility. The system said no to executing Joker so his role is to arrest. He doesn't have a personal super prison. Gordon has made it clear that this attitude is the only reason he works with Batman, otherwise Gordon himself would head the manhunt. Other than personally guarding Arkham himself I'm not sure what you expect him to do. The writers can't write a comic book about how the city is fine now because Batman arrested everyone. SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 18:56
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Batman does nothing to prevent more supercrime from happening, the Joker always escapes from Arkham On the other hand taking the mentally ill people to a place where they will be treated, or at least an attempt will be made, instead of locking them in a box and ignoring them until they break out again is good This is one of those spots where you have to make a concession for the fact that it's a comic book that by its nature has no end
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Jun 24, 2016 18:58
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WampaLord posted:You believe this poo poo when cops tell you it? SolidSnakesBandana posted:They do and have. Bruce Wayne went through FBI training. The real reason is because he refuses to use guns, even though he aced marksmanship. Bruce Wayne traveled the entire world learning martial arts, detective skills, and even escape artistry. He went out in like a ski mask for a bit and kept getting his rear end kicked, which is what inspired the Bat persona, so he could use fear as an edge. Kurzon fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 18:58
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Hey Kurzon on a scale of 1-10 how awesome do you think Dredd is and also how badly do you want to blow him
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Jun 24, 2016 18:58
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Kurzon posted:Are you serious? I think the cops are a more reliable authority on this topic than my drinking buddies at the pub. I'm sure they don't have a bias
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Jun 24, 2016 18:59
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Kurzon posted:Are you serious? I think the cops are a more reliable authority on this topic than my drinking buddies at the pub. I'm not going to bother getting all D&D in here, but you have to admit that cops aren't going to be the ones to come out and say "Actually, there are major problems with the criminal justice system and we probably shouldn't be locking up so many people."
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Jun 24, 2016 19:02
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Kurzon posted:Are you serious? I think the cops are a more reliable authority on this topic than my drinking buddies at the pub. Can you think of, perhaps, a third group that would be a more reliable authority than either
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Jun 24, 2016 19:03
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Jenny Angel posted:Can you think of, perhaps, a third group that would be a more reliable authority than either Mole people
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Jun 24, 2016 19:04
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The mole people are slaves, so yes.
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Jun 24, 2016 19:07
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WampaLord posted:I'm not going to bother getting all D&D in here, but you have to admit that cops aren't going to be the ones to come out and say "Actually, there are major problems with the criminal justice system and we probably shouldn't be locking up so many people." quote:I’M SURE LOTS of you, like me, are kept awake at night by the idea that some of our prisons are overcrowded. It’s certainly been worrying Lord Chief Justice Phillips of Worth Matravers lately. Recently, his Lordship suggested that offenders should only be sent to jail ‘as a last resort’ and that they should really be rehabilitated in the community. I think they should be rehabilitated chez Phillips, where Lord Phillips can develop a better understanding of what persistent acquisitive criminals are really like while Lady Phillips (nee Christylle Marie-Thérèse Rouffiac) keeps an eye on the family silver. To understand how bad things really are, I recommend reading A Land Fit For Criminals by David Fraser. Fraser is a former probation officer who’s had personal experience of dealing with a large number of criminals. His basic thesis is that, in order fully to protect the public, we need to lock up a minimum of 225,000 people (the current maximum is 80,000) and we need a police force of about four times the size that it is now. I disagree with the latter part of that thesis, for reasons I’ll explain later, but I agree with the first part. He firmly believes that prison works, and that all attempts to reform criminals in the community are dangerous experiments which put the public at risk. Not only that, community service doesn’t work: people don’t turn up and, when they do, they don’t really do what they’re supposed to do. Jail, on the other hand, is a cast-iron guarantee that the public, and their property, are safe from criminals. While they’re inside they can get certificates in all sorts of things from woodwork to ‘Enhanced Thinking’ (really), but they can’t creep into your house and steal your TV. It’s a fact, despite what LCJ Phillips says or thinks, that giving an 18-year-old serious jail time for his third burglary dwelling would ensure the public were protected from literally hundreds of offences. The above author also doesn't much like judges and politicians because they lack hands-on experience with criminals and their victims. Jenny Angel posted:Can you think of, perhaps, a third group that would be a more reliable authority than either Kurzon fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 19:07
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If you don't know what the police have to gain from locking people up, watch The Wire.
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Jun 24, 2016 19:09
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Also note that Batman v Superman flipped a bunch of those aspects of his character and went "What if this Batman didn't care if he crippled his opponents? What if he wasn't a genius detective so Lex Luthor could gaslight him for 18 months and trick him into trying to kill Superman? What if he abandoned his principles and decided to plot his opponent's death?" and a whoooooole bunch of people went "Uh, the fight scenes were cool but that other stuff was hosed up" I think there could still be room for the World's Greatest Detective version of Batman in this universe. I think one thing that's easy to forget is that Bruce's conception of the world and his understanding of it is totally shattered by the appearance of Superman. Sure, he's distracted by his rage, but he also feels like he's the only person capable of dealing with Superman. The rest of the world spends the movie grappling with the existence of Superman, but Bruce has the added burden of being arrogant and driven enough to think he's the only person standing between a Superman gone rogue and the rest of the world. On top of that he's having hosed up dreams and is the lodestone for Darkseid and all that crazy poo poo. The dude quite clearly has a lot on his plate so it's easy to see why Luthor was able to fleece him for so long. Batman is a power fantasy and that is obviously part of his appeal, but this Batman is very clearly a fallible human dude way out of his depth and I appreciate that the movie didn't shy away from that even when it meant not kowtowing entirely to the wish fulfillment aspect of the character. MeatwadIsGod fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 19:10
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Kurzon posted:I don't know what the police have to gain by locking up more people because most of the prisons in America are not run by the cops. You've figured out what topic you should spend time reading up on then.
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Jun 24, 2016 19:13
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Furthermore, every criminal Judge Dredd shoots is a cycle of crime ended. yeah
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Jun 24, 2016 19:14
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Basebf555 posted:If you don't know what the police have to gain from locking people up, watch The Wire. Kurzon fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 19:14
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Kurzon posted:I usually am wary of seeking truth in fiction but I hear this show was written by a former crime journalist, so maybe it has something to teach. You don't have to turn to fiction. There's plenty of articles online about the twisted incentives American cops have to arrest people for anything/everything they can.
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Jun 24, 2016 19:16
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MacheteZombie posted:You don't have to turn to fiction. There's plenty of articles online about the twisted incentives American cops have to arrest people for anything/everything they can.
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Jun 24, 2016 19:20
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I only suggest The Wire because some people don't like to read. By all means seek out the many articles and books that have been written on the subject.
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Jun 24, 2016 19:20
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Kurzon posted:I usually am wary of seeking truth in fiction but I hear this show was written by a former crime journalist, so maybe it has something to teach. I dunno, the cops who wrote the books I mentioned used pseudonyms to avoid getting in trouble with their superiors. It was shocking to hear low-ranking bobbies rail against the system for not being harsh enough. You kinda expect police whistleblowers to say the opposite. But this was Britain, not America. It was also written by a former cop so you should probably watch it
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Jun 24, 2016 19:20
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Kurzon posted:Are we talking just about arrest quotas? Because the cops don't decide what sentences criminals get (that's down to MPs and judges), nor are they a part of Her Majesty's Prison Service. Oh its far from just a police issue, the problem is all the way up and down the system. Arrest quotas are part of it though, they serve as a motivator for cops to arrest as many people as possible. In the past walking a beat and trying to prevent crime from actually happening in the first place was a thing.
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Jun 24, 2016 19:22
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Kurzon posted:Are we talking just about arrest quotas? Because the cops don't decide what sentences criminals get (that's down to MPs and judges), nor are they a part of Her Majesty's Prison Service. We're talking dolla dolla bills, yo. e: my state: http://www.news9.com/story/32168555/ohp-uses-new-device-to-seize-money-used-during-the-commission-of-a-crime MacheteZombie fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 19:22
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Mierenneuker posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaACrT6Ydik This song is honestly so much better than it has any right to be. I wanna see more rappers working with EDM producers.
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Jun 24, 2016 20:03
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Probably my biggest issue with BVS is that a Batman who kills has no stakes. For instance, can you explain why a Batman who kills a random thug wouldn't just murder the Joker? Why not just kill Lex? The entire point of the Under the Red Hood arc is that Batman refused to kill, even when it's obvious that he should just make the Joker disappear. The entire Justice League disbanded for a full year because Wonder Woman killed a man that she obviously had absolutely no choice but to kill. Batman also believes in rehabilitation. Sometimes he gives criminals a job at his company if he feels they are just down on their luck. SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 20:09
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Kurzon posted:Are you serious? I think the cops are a more reliable authority on this topic than my drinking buddies at the pub. We're talking about a world with super criminals and massive amounts of organized crime. We're talking Gotham. Your argument is seriously "well he might not have to fire it?" A world where normal criminals will commit a bank robbery in Metropolis in the middle of the day and have a shootout on the freeway. SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 20:14
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Wish I could trust cops as much as that dude does
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Jun 24, 2016 20:29
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Probably my biggest issue with BVS is that a Batman who kills has no stakes. For instance, can you explain why a Batman who kills a random thug wouldn't just murder the Joker? Why not just kill Lex? Killing Lex would be good. Why not kill him? Throw him in the guillotine. The problem has absolutely nothing to do with killing or not-killing. People mad that Batman kills somehow miss that he's killing slavemasters who torture and rape. The problem is not that these people die, but that the killing is ineffectual. More and more slavers keep popping up, and nothing is solved. The branding is, like the plan to kill Superman, a publicity stunt - a distraction from the much more terrifying prospect of attacking the system itself. Regardless of whether he kills, Batman's deepest fear is that he'll actually accomplish something. That crime will actually end. The film is about his overcoming that fear.
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Jun 24, 2016 20:36
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Isn't the Metropolitan Police in the UK super corrupt?
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Jun 24, 2016 20:36
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Probably my biggest issue with BVS is that a Batman who kills has no stakes. For instance, can you explain why a Batman who kills a random thug wouldn't just murder the Joker? Why not just kill Lex? The same way many people are convinced that the death penalty effectively deters the most abominable acts, Bruce is convinced that his extra-judicial death brand and total disregard for the criminal underbelly implicitly achieves some spiritual good, even if it's empirically unproven to work. He's 'forcing the world to make sense,' as it were. He no longer is merely indoctrinating the mutants - he is a mutant, the product of all Gotham's congealed complacency and political corruption. What the film consistently calls attention to in both versions is Batman's conspicuous failure to liberate the consciousness of Gotham's citizens, as occurs momentarily in The Dark Knight Returns, and instead only deal blows to 'common thugs.' The point is to compare them. Batman is a common thug, a mutant. He hasn't killed Joker either because this pathology is recent, or because the Joker himself is too credible a threat. As in, it's not for lack of trying - the reason Joker keeps breaking free and living to fight another day is because he's stronger than Batman in his current worldview. With regards to Lex, however, the whole movie is building up to his opportunity to kill him, and resisting, despite clearly almost doing it. That's the arc of the character. Moving away from trying to 'stamp out the criminal underbelly' towards uniting heroes.
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Jun 24, 2016 20:40
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