|
Countblanc posted:i don't actually like ults, or at least their frequency, despite doing those things Sometimes I wish they all charged more slowly, other times I don't mind it. The more I've played the less I get side swiped by them so it's not this huge issue it was when I first started playing. Dongicus posted:please tell me the method for dodging the ult that instantly kills you with only a brief voice cue Depends on your class, the ult being used, the map you're on. A lot of times its as easy as LoS the ult, or stun the hero ulting. Mei can block off enemies so they're ults won't hit you and your team immediately. Zarya can bubble her and a teammate, usually just long enough to get cover. There are times where you do have to eat a ult, which can be unfortunate.
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 20:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 00:00 |
|
|
Countblanc posted:i don't mind that there are buttons which kill a person quickly/instantly, that's basically just a sniper but from close range. if i hated dying quickly i wouldn't be playing fps games. what bothers me about ults is how large they tend to be, and how common they are; team fights regularly open with 2-3 ults and maybe pepper another one in there somewhere, not counting Mercy rezzes which may happen twice over a prolonged engagement. it's just a bit too much in my humble opinion. The game is designed around ults which are a major force in preventing long stalemates. Some ults absolutely need longer cooldowns (Mercy) but by and large ults are the motivating factor in moving from stalemates/lucky out of positioning to aggression/counter-aggression.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 20:37
|
|
|
if a glowing cowboy tells you what time it is, either very quickly shoot him in his face or hide from him behind cover, then he won't instakill you (it's not really instakill, it takes him a few seconds to charge it up)
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 20:40
|
|
|
I actually think ults make for their own form of stalemate as teams tend to play conservatively while charging their slower ults.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 20:42
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:The game is designed around ults which are a major force in preventing long stalemates. Some ults absolutely need longer cooldowns (Mercy) but by and large ults are the motivating factor in moving from stalemates/lucky out of positioning to aggression/counter-aggression. well, i guess i think that's not necessarily the best design choice then, and certainly not the only way to prevent long stalemates. i feel it reduces the impact of individual shots and execution, as ults tend to be a lot more forgiving. i'm definitely not some sort of fps god, inhouse people can attest to that (i'm basically just good at making comms), but interacts like "team A uses Graviton Surge, team B uses Sound Barrier to survive, team A uses Rocket Barrage (which significantly outdamages sound barrier), team B uses Resurrection and Earthshatter" feel very common and streaky.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 20:45
|
|
|
Deadeye is actually incredibly hard to position right as to set up the 'big boy flank' you really have to go out of your way to take this slow moving character that's spurs go jingle jangle all the way around a flank route and preferably up to high ground and wait for a time when the enemy are distracted so you don't get instantly focused down. Which is why I tip my hat to those that manage it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw0aBl2nkJg
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 20:46
|
|
|
Zoness posted:I actually think ults make for their own form of stalemate as teams tend to play conservatively while charging their slower ults. that's also true sometimes, though less common in comp due to stopwatch rules encouraging aggression. they'd definitely need to make changes to the game if they increased ult charge time (which I feel they should), but I also think those changes would also be good - dynamic spawn times being the big one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
Countblanc posted:well, i guess i think that's not necessarily the best design choice then, and certainly not the only way to prevent long stalemates. i feel it reduces the impact of individual shots and execution, as ults tend to be a lot more forgiving. i'm definitely not some sort of fps god, inhouse people can attest to that (i'm basically just good at making comms), but interacts like "team A uses Graviton Surge, team B uses Sound Barrier to survive, team A uses Rocket Barrage (which significantly outdamages sound barrier), team B uses Resurrection and Earthshatter" feel very common and streaky. as the mercy player in matches of varying levels the hide from dragonblading genji ult minigame is also a thing
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
Countblanc posted:well, i guess i think that's not necessarily the best design choice then, and certainly not the only way to prevent long stalemates. i feel it reduces the impact of individual shots and execution, as ults tend to be a lot more forgiving. i'm definitely not some sort of fps god, inhouse people can attest to that (i'm basically just good at making comms), but interacts like "team A uses Graviton Surge, team B uses Sound Barrier to survive, team A uses Rocket Barrage (which significantly outdamages sound barrier), team B uses Resurrection and Earthshatter" feel very common and streaky. You can argue about the design choice but the way characters are set up now absolutely assumes ults as a thing they're designed around. It does arguably reduce the impact of individual shots but knowing when and where to use ults is a major part of the game and while it does lead to ult/counterult chains that's also an important part of the game. Without it you'd have to redesign all the characters and even an across-the-board ult cooldown raise would severely hurt several characters while others would become more dominant because of their reduced reliance on those ults. Overwatch is absolutely a game that doesn't reward individual skill on the same level as a lot of other shooters but that's an intentional design decision, down to hiding the scoreboards. Play of the Game is supposed to be the sop to that but we all know why PotG is kinda goofy. However I think that's also part of the appeal of Overwatch in that it is very playable without the same high individual skill requirements as a lot of shooters which makes it more casual friendly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 20:57
|
|
|
Countblanc posted:good - dynamic spawn times being the big one. Really this is the thing they should focus a bit more on. A few class tweaks and making the spawns and spawn times better.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 20:58
|
|
|
Soldier does great damage, especially against tanks where his spread is mitigated* but he lacks the burst damage of McCree. I don't think they're really an apples to apples comparison but that's a standout difference. You could argue that reaper is good at killing flankers but that's not his strength either and the range difference is huge compared to Soldier/McCree. Helix rockets do good damage but the travel time makes them more difficult to land in a lot of cases. *something something why don't you get burst fire head shots 100% of the time *points to dps spreadsheet*
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 20:59
|
|
|
No one ever talks about it, but watching the gosugamers stream yesterday made it clear that Lucio's ult is arguably the 2nd-best in the game, it's crazy good. Death Blossom is also way more deadly than High Noon.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:01
|
|
|
high noon seemed mostly about zoning out the other team in competitive play considering how tough it is to actually get kills with it consistently
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:04
|
|
|
Manatee Cannon posted:high noon seemed mostly about zoning out the other team in competitive play considering how tough it is to actually get kills with it consistently Pretty much. Activate it, people will flee for a few seconds, then your team can hopefully go in and do work.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:You can argue about the design choice but the way characters are set up now absolutely assumes ults as a thing they're designed around. It does arguably reduce the impact of individual shots but knowing when and where to use ults is a major part of the game and while it does lead to ult/counterult chains that's also an important part of the game. Without it you'd have to redesign all the characters and even an across-the-board ult cooldown raise would severely hurt several characters while others would become more dominant because of their reduced reliance on those ults. you pretty much nailed what i don't like about it
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:07
|
|
|
also rip tire seemed like it was more about getting vision around corners but maybe that was just player error
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:08
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:You can argue about the design choice but the way characters are set up now absolutely assumes ults as a thing they're designed around. It does arguably reduce the impact of individual shots but knowing when and where to use ults is a major part of the game and while it does lead to ult/counterult chains that's also an important part of the game. Without it you'd have to redesign all the characters and even an across-the-board ult cooldown raise would severely hurt several characters while others would become more dominant because of their reduced reliance on those ults. yeah and I acknowledge and respect why Blizzard did it, I just personally don't enjoy it and we're on a discussion forum so i'm havin' a discuss. I sorta think your mention of PotG means you're misinterpreting why I don't like ults, which may have been my fault for not explaining it properly; I don't mind that i'm not getting like, my name on the scoreboard for landing 5 Mccree headshots in 6 seconds, but it's personally more satisfying to me to execute those things and those opportunities are more rare than I'd like in the current system.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:17
|
|
|
henkman posted:not really, no In the grand scheme of things you are getting slightly more mid range DPS in exchange for none of the mobility, utility and survivability and long range burst potential 76 has. And keep in mind that mid range DPS has to be mid range because McCree gets a lot harsher fall off then 76 does at shorter ranges (18 feet vs. 35 feet) McCree has so many drawbacks compared to the other offensive characters; he's the least mobile, has no defensive skills/sustain, low HP, low ammo count and a situational as all hell ult. All he had going for him is raw killing power, now he has slightly more killing power then a 76 but still has all the drawbacks. Orange Crush Rush fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jun 24, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:22
|
|
|
Zoness posted:also rip tire seemed like it was more about getting vision around corners but maybe that was just player error Unless you are flanking (like High Noon) and/or dropping it from a spot no one expects, Rip Tire is all about the panic, not the actual blowing up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
Manatee Cannon posted:roadhog off alone trying to flank is nothing but a giant target that feeds the other team's ults One of the benefits of flanking with him is that you minimize the amount of time spent out in the open with a flashing "FREE ULTS" sign over your head quote:you might pick some people off from time to time but you're also not actually helping your team at all. your team'll be down a guy where it matters (the objective) and you can't really fight multiple people at the same time unless they're really close and not focusing you down. You underestimate how useful it can be to "pick some people off from time to time". Assassinating a Mercy is the right choice 90% of the time, even if you're killed immediately afterwards. Hooking a mid-ult Soldier/Pharah/McCree/Reaper can save your entire team from being mowed down. Coming up behind that pesky Widowmaker or Bastion chewing up your team? Even if you don't finish them off, you still dislodged them from their perch or forced them to reposition, and at the very least you interrupted them and bought your team a few seconds to advance (which doesn't sound like much, but it can absolutely make a difference) My personal favorite though? Yanking a shielding Reinhardt out from the side and suddenly exposing everyone behind him. quote:mobility is important for flanks because it lets them pick people off without also getting stranded in no man's land. His high HP and self-healing skill give him pretty decent survivability if you get cut off behind enemy lines, but I do think he could really use some sort of mobility buff tbh. He shouldn't be zooming around or teleporting like Tracer/Reaper, but maybe giving his hook a Widowmaker grapple might make sense? Let him use it to get over obstacles/reach higher ground, or stick it into a wall to pull yourself to cover. It has a shorter range (I think?) and you'd have to choose between using it as a weapon or for mobility, which should help balance it (biggest problem I can see would be accidentally targeting the wrong thing - trying to hook an enemy, but catching a wall and dragging yourself out into the open instead. Maybe something like "press the button to pull something toward you, press and hold to use it like a grappling hook"?) That said, when I'm talking about flanking with him it's less "running around a mile behind the frontlines and picking off a lone straggler here and there" and more "trying to position yourself to the side or just behind the where the enemy is set up". If you charge up the main path you're just an ult-feeding target dummy, and a Reinhardt putting his shield up is enough to make you completely useless. But stalking around halls/side routes just next to or behind them lets you take out key targets, stop their flankers from getting through, and help with pushes with M2 blasts or Whole Hogs while their attention is on the rest of your team approaching. quote:e: roadhog's really good at killing one guy at a time, but he's way better at it when he's supported by his team. also his ult sucks when he's alone but combos really well with zarya's and can be used to push the other team away, which isn't remotely useful outside of saving yourself when you're alone behind enemy lines. he's good for picking a team apart, catching runners, and breaking a formation since he can pull key heroes out of their safe zone That's pretty much what I was saying. Approach them from any direction other than head-on like a typical tank would, then look for opportunities to disrupt them. Take out important targets, support a push by chipping at their heavies with M2 shots, bait people away from their allies into a one-on-one situations where you have an advantage, and so on
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:In the grand scheme of things you are getting slightly more mid range DPS in exchange for none of the mobility, utility and survivability and long range burst potential 76 has. And keep in mind that mid range DPS has to be mid range because McCree gets a lot harsher fall off then 76 does at shorter ranges (18 feet vs. 35 feet) People underrate his stun. Yes it doesn't lead to him get instant kills like he used to, but when a team fight breaks out, McCree is one of two characters with a non-ultimate stun. It opens up a bunch of team play scenarios, and that's pretty powerful and unique. I think you can still get it over Rein shield too, which differentiates him from Roadhog. Maybe you value 76's contributions more, but McCree does have that niche. He by no means fills a DPS role by himself, though, but I don't think that's the point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:43
|
|
|
    http://tcbunny.tumblr.com/post/146222324049/welcome-to-overwatch-daycare
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
Lord_Magmar posted:Yeah Roadhog has perhaps the most pronounced close range misalignment of his aim to where he hits, because his model is so wide and unlike Reinhardt/D.Va/Winston his weapon has a projectile that actually fires from his right hand towards his target. It makes sense when fighting him because you can see the scrap come out of his gun but it's really awkward as him if you don't know what's going on. Which makes sense, no reason to bother dealing with aim convergence in an arcadey shooter.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 21:54
|
|
|
The more I play, the more certain ults start to stand out as being significantly better. Hanzo's Dragonstrike always got a ton of kills initially, but now it seems like everyone has wised up and knows how to get out of the way. D.Va's ult also apparently worked a lot better in beta, but it is so telegraphed and long that it rarely gets kills either. Pharah's Rocket Barrage has high potential still, but it seems like you also end up dead 75% of the time because you are so exposed. Meanwhile, things that seemed underwhelming at first like Earthshatter are actually more consistent. I know that if I need to, I can kill the person in front of me with an Earthshatter combo every time. Or Mercy, whose ult charges so fast that it is effective to just use it whenever you get it rather than waiting for that POTG quadruple rez. Lucio's ult is consistently great for winning overtimes or making last pushes. Soldier76's Tactical Visor holds up really well.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:04
|
|
|
Sindai posted:I'm almost certain every weapon in the game actually shoots from the center and the visible projectiles are purely cosmetic. While this may or may not be the case now it definitely wasn't the case with Roadhog in the closed beta.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:08
|
|
|
Sindai posted:I'm almost certain every weapon in the game actually shoots from the center and the visible projectiles are purely cosmetic. Someone said Zarya's beam is off when your enemy is up close, like you have to aim left and up to hit or something funky.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:09
|
|
|
Mister Fister posted:Someone said Zarya's beam is off when your enemy is up close, like you have to aim left and up to hit or something funky.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:10
|
|
|
Sindai posted:Nah that one's definitely not true and it's super easy to test for yourself in the practice range. Oh well, i just took their word for it because nobody contested it 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:15
|
|
|
agreed
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:19
|
|
|
Dongicus posted:please tell me the method for dodging the ult that instantly kills you with only a brief voice cue If the spooky skeleton man turns into a ghost and flies into the middle of your team, he's going to spin around like an idiot and kill all of you. Like literally every single ult with the exception of Roadhog's is hilariously easy to predict because it's really goddamn obvious when someone is going to go for it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:19
|
|
|
Bolow posted:If the spooky skeleton man turns into a ghost and flies into the middle of your team, he's going to spin around like an idiot and kill all of you. Like literally every single ult with the exception of Roadhog's is hilariously easy to predict because it's really goddamn obvious when someone is going to go for it. The good reapers are the ones that drop down from above and ult on you, especially when they time it so that you're distracted when you're engaging his teammates. Basically no time to react.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:22
|
|
|
McCree can technically flashbang a dropping Reaper out of it if he's incredibly quick with it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:24
|
|
|
Death Blossom does 200dps for 3 seconds, so McCree can technically survive for a second, possibly longer depending on how far away he is. You can definitely locate reaper and flashbang him in that moment, but good luck doing it reliably, particularly if the Reaper picks the right moment. Just suck it up, accept that you got outplayed, and keep checking the rooftops next time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:27
|
|
|
Mister Fister posted:The good reapers are the ones that drop down from above and ult on you, especially when they time it so that you're distracted when you're engaging his teammates. Basically no time to react. It's still incredibly obvious, because if he hasn't used his ult in the past minute, and you don't see him in the team fight. Chances are he's on some ledge waiting to drop down on you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:30
|
|
|
I managed to accidentally flashbang a reaper doing a Q drop off the shuttle on Gibraltar once and I managed to get POTG for it. Admittedly it was a fairly uneventful game otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:34
|
|
|
Reaper's probably one of the easier Ults to shut down as long as you can click his head. Probably a tossup between him and Pharah's 'justice rains from--auuuughhhhhblech' But yeah if they're smart enough to divebomb off a ledge while you're distracted with his teammates, you're probably just going to end up being a statistic in his PotG.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:39
|
|
|
Bolow posted:It's still incredibly obvious, because if he hasn't used his ult in the past minute, and you don't see him in the team fight. When is a Reaper ever present in a team fight?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:40
|
|
|
The really annoying thing about Reaper's ult is if you do anticipate it and stun/kill him right as it starts, he keeps basically all his charge for it. So to properly counter his ult you would have to predict it, let him ult for two seconds, and then kill him. That's idiotic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 22:40
|
|
|
NmareBfly posted:When is a Reaper ever present in a team fight? All the time? His main job is killing other tanks so he's generally in the thick of it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 00:00 |
|
|
Reaper creates a wall of death behind a push that works its way from the back to the front unless people stop it. Watch a good Reaper for pointers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE-UsqWyMkg
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2016 23:07
|
|