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http://inhabitat.com/co2-levels-likely-to-stay-above-400ppm-for-the-rest-of-our-lives-new-study-shows/quote:A new study reveals that carbon dioxide (CO2) concentrations in the atmosphere are likely to remain above 400 parts per million (ppm) throughout this year and for many years to come. Scientists from the Met Office Hadley Centre and Scripps Institution of Oceanography scrutinized data from NOAA’s Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii and forecasted that levels would not dip below 400ppm for ‘our lifetimes.’ Well poo poo.
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Jun 17, 2016 00:49
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Similarly: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4 Million Years Nothing to see here, move along.
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Jun 17, 2016 02:28
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Rime posted:Similarly: You should probably take that trip to see the reef
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Jun 17, 2016 02:33
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Rime posted:Similarly: Yeah, nothing to see, right. Banana Man posted:You should probably take that trip to see the reef
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Jun 17, 2016 02:35
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Waiting for  ppm blaze it, blaze the loving planet
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Jun 17, 2016 03:43
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Banana Man posted:You should probably take that trip to see the reef Did that last year. Hail Satan.
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Jun 17, 2016 20:18
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I'll always have David Attenborough's Great Barrier Reef to look at when they're gone.
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Jun 17, 2016 20:48
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http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11538-015-0126-0 So to answer the thread title with the above, nothing can be done and we'll all die suffocating on our hubris (and lack of oxygen) in less than 100 years, right?
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Jun 20, 2016 13:11
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Several articles concerning that came out over the weekend, the thrust of which was that at six degrees or so, it shuts down most of the plankton's ability to produce oxygen. It serves as a convenient worst-case scenario, but I have seen it brought up as a possibility now and again for at least the last several years.
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Jun 20, 2016 17:06
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TheBlackVegetable posted:http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11538-015-0126-0 It's been warmer than current temperature +6° in relatively recent earth history, so I don't think the ecosystem is going to shut down completely. And certainly not within the next century. Sure, nothing can be done to avoid catastrophic climate change at this point, but plenty can be done to make it less bad than it could be (by reducing emissions) and to adapt to what is unavoidable.
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Jun 20, 2016 20:24
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pidan posted:It's been warmer than current temperature +6° in relatively recent earth history, so I don't think the ecosystem is going to shut down completely. And certainly not within the next century. The temperature has not changed by +6° at the rate that it is currently changing, which is the problem. Previously, a change of +/-6° occurred over thousands of years, and there was time for natural selection to produce organisms (phytoplankton in this case) that were better able to tolerate warmer water. This change is or may be occuring over a century, rather than thousands of years, which may not be enough time for sufficiently adapted plankton to arise.
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Jun 20, 2016 21:10
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Placid Marmot posted:The temperature has not changed by +6° at the rate that it is currently changing, which is the problem. Previously, a change of +/-6° occurred over thousands of years, and there was time for natural selection to produce organisms (phytoplankton in this case) that were better able to tolerate warmer water. This change is or may be occuring over a century, rather than thousands of years, which may not be enough time for sufficiently adapted plankton to arise. Ehhhhh, that's a whole lot of "maybes" and "may nots", I see no cause for concern.
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Jun 20, 2016 22:46
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I'm not like a marine biologist, but phytoplankton have a generation time of a couple hours to a couple days, so a hundred years seems like an alright period of time to get some adaptation to warmer temperatures. Not that I really think that there's gonna be a lot of species surviving the end results of anthropogenic climate change, maybe not even global human civilisation as we know it, but suffocation due to loss of phytoplankton probably won't be the specific mechanic of our demise.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:57
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Speaking of plankton what are the reasons not to dump iron and phosphorous into the oceans and keep doing it until all the carbon is absorbed? As in, I get that it's probably a lovely idea, but I'm not totally clear on why. Is the idea sound except we don't have enough iron and phosphorous, or do we have enough but doing it is insane? How insane?
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Jun 22, 2016 13:47
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Kilroy posted:Speaking of plankton what are the reasons not to dump iron and phosphorous into the oceans and keep doing it until all the carbon is absorbed? As in, I get that it's probably a lovely idea, but I'm not totally clear on why. Is the idea sound except we don't have enough iron and phosphorous, or do we have enough but doing it is insane? How insane? It doesn't work afaik. I was all about iron fertilization in the early 00s but from what I understand once people started doing field studies it was shown not to live up to the hype.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:02
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Some rich guy dumped several hundred tons of Iron off the coast of Haida Gwaii. All it did was really gently caress up fish spawning and decimate multiple species.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:09
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Probably over 90% of all phosphorus ever mined is already in the oceans, and there's none spare to add to that. If all that phosphorus didn't make algae/plankton grow more, then no extra is likely to help.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:10
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Kilroy posted:Speaking of plankton what are the reasons not to dump iron and phosphorous into the oceans and keep doing it until all the carbon is absorbed? As in, I get that it's probably a lovely idea, but I'm not totally clear on why. Is the idea sound except we don't have enough iron and phosphorous, or do we have enough but doing it is insane? How insane? We could theoretically de-carbonize the oceans with enough powdered olivine. It was being researched for a while, and might still be. If I remember the details correctly, mixing olivine with CO2 in a water medium makes a weird kind of artificial quartz, and olivine is one of the most common minerals in the upper crust. It'd cost a considerable amount of money, but the math is there to sequester a huge amount of carbon by just dumping crushed olivine at the right places.
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Jun 22, 2016 22:25
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Are we 100% sure carbon is the primary cause? I have a vague memory of some studies pointing to methane as being a primary cause, even before carbon.
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Jun 23, 2016 22:27
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Shooting Blanks posted:Are we 100% sure carbon is the primary cause? Yes. https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/ch4.html
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Jun 23, 2016 22:35
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Cool, thanks for correcting me.
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Jun 23, 2016 23:01
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Shooting Blanks posted:Are we 100% sure carbon is the primary cause? I have a vague memory of some studies pointing to methane as being a primary cause, even before carbon. Methane isn't helping though carbon causes more Methane to be released which just makes poo poo even worse. Overall carbon is the biggest climate problem. Humans putting gently caress tons of carbon in the air is the central cause of like all of it. Then we're also venting methane from gas getting. We just gotta burn that fuel.
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Jun 24, 2016 18:21
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Shooting Blanks posted:Cool, thanks for correcting me. You may also have heard it phrased inaccurately, because it's true that mole for mole, CH4 is "worse" than CO2 as far as greenhouse gasses go because it traps radiation / radiant heat more efficiently. Also carbon is part of both of those gases, the element Carbon itself is not necessarily the problem, but the compounds it forms that have deleterious effects on the planetary ecosystem. I figure this is taken for granted in D&D, but that should be clarified too.
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Jun 24, 2016 18:28
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ChairMaster posted:I'm not like a marine biologist, but phytoplankton have a generation time of a couple hours to a couple days, so a hundred years seems like an alright period of time to get some adaptation to warmer temperatures. Again, how am I supposed to live my life with this knowledge? I refuse to raise a family, any and all career goals seem useless to me since society as we know it might not even survive the next 20 years, let alone 100, and most people and family treat me like an annoyance at best. Is the mere act of existing and not being dead supposed to give me some intrinsic joy? Because I don't get it and getting medicated for it doesn't seem like a good prospect because I am afraid of becoming too optimistic and then making choices like raising a family that then will be stuck in this hell and die painfully cursing my name. AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 22:27
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You might not get too much moral support in this thread. The most popularly voiced opinion is "FYGM".
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Jun 24, 2016 22:52
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Give up on keeping up with the Jone's, espouse YOLO in all things and don't give a gently caress about what might happen. An attitude which would make a large portion of the population happier, regardless of almost certain impending doom.
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Jun 24, 2016 22:58
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Overflight posted:Again, how am I supposed to live my life with this knowledge? I refuse to raise a family, any and all career goals seem useless to me since society as we know it might not even survive the next 20 years, let alone 100, and most people and family treat me like an annoyance at best. Is the mere act of existing and not being dead supposed to give me some intrinsic joy? Because I don't get it and getting medicated for it doesn't seem like a good prospect because I am afraid of becoming too optimistic and then making choices like raising a family that then will be stuck in this hell and die painfully cursing my name. You have serious mental health issues unrelated to climate change. Are you the same person who was refusing to tell their mental health professional about their unhealthy obsessions with climate change?
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Jun 24, 2016 23:14
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Overflight posted:Again, how am I supposed to live my life with this knowledge? I refuse to raise a family, any and all career goals seem useless to me since society as we know it might not even survive the next 20 years, let alone 100, and most people and family treat me like an annoyance at best. Is the mere act of existing and not being dead supposed to give me some intrinsic joy? Because I don't get it and getting medicated for it doesn't seem like a good prospect because I am afraid of becoming too optimistic and then making choices like raising a family that then will be stuck in this hell and die painfully cursing my name. Hope for the best. Plan for the worst. Decide what matters to you in life and try not to be wasteful. Try to accomplish whatever is important to you and at least try to be conscious about how your actions affect the environment. Reduce, reuse, recycle. You can go surprisingly far on that alone.
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Jun 24, 2016 23:20
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Overflight posted:Is the mere act of existing and not being dead supposed to give me some intrinsic joy?
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Jun 25, 2016 00:56
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Rime posted:"FYGM"
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Jun 25, 2016 00:57
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Overflight posted:Again, how am I supposed to live my life with this knowledge? I refuse to raise a family, any and all career goals seem useless to me since society as we know it might not even survive the next 20 years, let alone 100, and most people and family treat me like an annoyance at best. Is the mere act of existing and not being dead supposed to give me some intrinsic joy? Because I don't get it and getting medicated for it doesn't seem like a good prospect because I am afraid of becoming too optimistic and then making choices like raising a family that then will be stuck in this hell and die painfully cursing my name. You could also remember that your parents' generation could have had the exact same attitude, using nuclear war as an excuse to not do anything ever. They'd even be able to pat themselves on the back in the same way - "at least I'm saving my unborn children (you) from the nuclear apocalypse!" Of course climate change as a slowly worsening crisis is essentially guaranteed (in hindsight, nuclear war obviously was not (... yet)). So it's not quite the same. But plenty of people were sure the bombs were going to fall by 19XX - most of them just learned to live with the threat, some were so worried they did something about it - advocacy, lobbying, think tank work, diplomatic work, painting protest signs, whatever. All of that together probably helped! You're not really worried about climate change and civilizational collapse on the merits of the case. If climate change wasn't happening I suspect you'd feel the same way about nuclear war, or a global pandemic, or a big CME knocking out the world's power, or a comet strike, or the Yellowstone caldera, or zombies. It's not the facts of these potential disasters, or their likelihood, that gets to you. It's their fundamental uncertainty and temporal displacement - it lets you project every personal hangup and insecurity on some "objective" future event. Yes, lets you, not makes you. The deal you (unconsciously) made with yourself is that you'll take on the world's anxiety, worrying about this hard enough for all of us, in exchange for having an excuse for not trying to improve your life. The excuse even comes with a great out - if it [insert world ending disaster here] never happens in your lifetime, it drat sure could have and I wasn't wrong to have been so worried. Humanity got lucky, bless those happy fools in their ignorance, they don't know how bad it could have been. You get to remain superior no matter what. Everybody does this kind of ego-protecting self sabotage (including me), just usually on a smaller scale.
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Jun 25, 2016 01:15
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Overflight posted:Again, how am I supposed to live my life with this knowledge? I refuse to raise a family, any and all career goals seem useless to me since society as we know it might not even survive the next 20 years, let alone 100, and most people and family treat me like an annoyance at best. Is the mere act of existing and not being dead supposed to give me some intrinsic joy? No. Nobody feels joy all the time they exist. There are just nice moments, when you do or see or hear something you like. And there are things you can do for others from time to time, to give yourself purpose. All small scale stuff, but that is what we are, individually.
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Jun 25, 2016 01:35
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Prolonged Priapism posted:Yes, lets you, not makes you. The deal you (unconsciously) made with yourself is that you'll take on the world's anxiety, worrying about this hard enough for all of us, in exchange for having an excuse for not trying to improve your life. The excuse even comes with a great out - if it [insert world ending disaster here] never happens in your lifetime, it drat sure could have and I wasn't wrong to have been so worried. Humanity got lucky, bless those happy fools in their ignorance, they don't know how bad it could have been. You get to remain superior no matter what. As cliché as this might sound, this gave me something to think about. Thank you. AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 03:26
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Overflight posted:Again, how am I supposed to live my life with this knowledge? I refuse to raise a family, any and all career goals seem useless to me since society as we know it might not even survive the next 20 years, let alone 100, and most people and family treat me like an annoyance at best. Is the mere act of existing and not being dead supposed to give me some intrinsic joy? Because I don't get it and getting medicated for it doesn't seem like a good prospect because I am afraid of becoming too optimistic and then making choices like raising a family that then will be stuck in this hell and die painfully cursing my name. gb2e/n? I think most people in this thread have already accepted our world's fate to some degree, we're kinda over it. Except for the occasional dumb troll I guess. Society's not going anywhere in the next 20 years, you're gonna be fine. If you don't have kids literally none of this is really your problem. ChairMaster fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 03:45
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Overflight posted:Is the mere act of existing and not being dead supposed to give me some intrinsic joy. It can, but it takes hard work and a lot of social deprogramming. The first thing you gotta realize is that nobody knows what's going to happen. Nobody. Especially not you. Communities of experts with hundreds of thousands of hours of study and experience can make educated guesses off of intricate models of the past, but they can't predict the future either. Everyone lives in the knife's edge of the present, nobody knows why, and nobody knows what's going to happen next. You just. don't. know. The second thing you gotta do is internalize impermanence. Nothing lasts forever. Our civilization will die. It's inevitable. You will die, your children will die, everyone you've ever known or heard of will die. And it's actually not a bad thing at all, death is what makes our lives meaningful in the first place. Nothing lasts, and to bring life into the world is to simultaneously doom it to death. All life reproduces itself through death.Your choices matter because of death. It's a loving feature, not a bug. Did you come out of the womb frozen in anguish over your impending demise? Why start now? Figuring out how attention works helps too. We are weird elemental aggregates that basically add up to a singular point of attention. We actually have a tremendous amount of control over where we direct our attention, and it's something you can practice and improve at. When you direct your attention to the past, you're not really remembering something that happened 'before', you're accessing a region of your brain in the present. Your remembering the last time you remembered that something. The past is all tied up in the now. Something similar happens when you think about the future, except in this case there's nothing to go on except the past, which is really something you're reinterpreting in the present. Future-thinking is all fantasy and projection occurring in the present. Your entire life happens in the present, the eternal now-that-is-not. And because of our singular points of attention, time spent ruminating on the past or fearing the future is literally time where you're not actually living. Your attention isn't on the present, and that's where the action is. Letting your attention stray to the past or future steals time from your lifespan. Letting your fears for the future absolutely dictate your decisions in the present is, strangely enough, a kind of death. You become trapped in the horizon of your 3 times, even though 2 of those times are nothing but empty subjective ephemerality. Your present becomes overshadowed, blocked by imaginary possibilities and dreamlike memories. Something weird happens when your attention and investments are focused on the present - you start not just to realize conceptually, but to feel the miracle that is being. You get caught up in the process. Each moment of your life is a singular, unique instance of the universe experiencing itself. No one like you has ever existed, or will ever exist again. Everything that happens to you is a torrent of sheer exquisite novelty, and you are completely free to experience it, interpret it, live it in any way you want. The most terrible experiences can be lived through in sheer wonder at the newness of each instant, at the strangeness of being anything at all. No moment is unendurable, and we are only momentary creatures. The looming collapse of our civilization is an opportunity, not a disaster. We're being shown that we can be better than what we currently are. We've been gifted a new survival pressure that could shape us from a bunch of stupid selfish monkeys into an actually sustainable balanced civilization. We're being asked to become stewards of the entire planet. Humans are the most adaptable creatures this world has yet produced, and we are being invited to an adaptation challenge unlike any other. So ADAPT! Organize your life around sustainability, integrate into your ecosystem, find a mate and a community who care, make shitloads of tiny ones, teach them to walk softly upon the earth. Even if we're doomed and it's all futile, you'll still have lived a life worth living because meaning happens in the present, not on your deathbed. You're going to die and so will we all, but you're still here now. What have you got to lose?
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Jun 25, 2016 09:56
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Rime posted:Give up on keeping up with the Jone's, espouse YOLO in all things and don't give a gently caress about what might happen. Do you think your crippling depression and near-homelessness might have anything to do with the perpetual attitude of hopelessness you espouse in this thread? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 26, 2016 01:08
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Hello Sailor posted:Do you think your crippling depression and near-homelessness might have anything to do with the perpetual attitude of hopelessness you espouse in this thread? Eh? I'm not hopeless, I just don't see much point in sitting there wringing ones hands in despair over what may or may not happen several decades down the line. Especially if you're born in the west after 1980, which makes you one of the most privileged and potential-imbued individuals in the history of the entire human species. In the context of global corporatism and entrenched oligarchy, one raindrop no longer causes the flood. Goons would do well to spend less time shitposting and more of it enjoying the time which is given to us. :gandalf: If I gave a poo poo about goons using my post history as ammo, I wouldn't post in the subforum which disallows editing. 
Rime fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 03:51
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I thoroughly enjoy the time given me to shitpost 
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Jun 26, 2016 05:11
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Potato Salad posted:I thoroughly enjoy the time given me to shitpost Was about to say that. It bring me great joy when I grab a cup of coffee, sit on my patio, and poo poo post for a bit when I get home from work.
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Jun 26, 2016 18:29
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http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZF1MM
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