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Where Thrall will almost certainly kill him.
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Jun 24, 2016 23:34
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just imagine ff14 if after every major encounter minifillia showed up to take the killing blow then everyone talked about how cool she was And also if we fought Bahamut again in 4.3
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Jun 24, 2016 23:39
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Tortolia posted:It didn't help that GW2 fairly rapidly funneled the early character plot lines into the same generic "Watch the green Mary Sue save the day" nonsense. We already had WoW for that. Here is a summary of the last chapter of the GW2 personal story: Help there's a giant, evil, eldritch, undead dragon who we need to kill! - Meet a new NPC - help them with an issue/complete a mission/something - Look, that new NPC heroically sacrificed themselves so the mission would succeed. Don't you feel motivated to fight now? Repeat the above 2 - 3 times. - "We need to do this important thing! Hey you, person who has been instrumental to literally all of our success so far but has received no credit, you should help us." - Help them. (One of these missions is an escort mission. In an MMO. Yeah.) - Trahearne (the "green Mary Sue" Tortolia mentioned) takes all the credit. Repeat the above a few times. OK, now it's time to fight the undead dragon!! - Enter a dungeon instance, get on an airship, press '1' until dragon is dead. CONGRATS WE DID IT. Now, there are characters who are well written. (Tybalt Leftpaw and Magister Sieran come to mind.) But the scenarios they're placed in are often pretty bad. One particularly egregious thing is that, at the end of every story mission, a triumphant fanfare plays and you get some kind of reward. This hilariously contrasts all the quests near the end of the personal story that end with things getting grimmer and grimmer. "No, all our NPC friends are dead!" 
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Jun 24, 2016 23:39
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Elentor posted:Sure, here's everything I remember. I didn't play a few of these expansions but I read enough people complaining about them: Or to summarize all of this and actually answer the question: when you finally beat Arthas the Lich King it was a culmination of events that started from before WoW was made and was practically the only instance of it's NPC heavy storyline making complete sense and being thematically satisfying (freeing Ghost Dad from a Soul Eating Sword so he can Free/Redeem His Son is metal/awesome as heck.) And, to emphasize the point that Elentor was going for, WoW then shoots itself in the foot with the cutscene afterward with the whole 'there must always be a Lich King' deal. Plus Tyrion Fordring was doing the Jesus thing before Thrall made it passe and I actually like Fordring stemming from his sidequests way back in original vanilla where you got to know him gradually and where the 'collect ten bear arses' quest style actually aided the story rather than detracted (said bear arses were dinner, materials for his saddle and some odds and ends he needed for his hermit lifestyle in a plague-infested landscape.) That's pretty much the highest peak WoW's writing has ever attained and even then there's a mar on it. EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jun 24, 2016 |
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Jun 24, 2016 23:41
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Farg posted:just imagine ff14 if after every major encounter minifillia showed up to take the killing blow then everyone talked about how cool she was That's the best way to sum it up. EponymousMrYar posted:That's pretty much the highest peak WoW's writing has ever attained and even then there's a mar on it. It's weird to think that somehow things go downhill after it. Also the Lich King is the only one out of six major plot villains that we actually lay the killing blow. At least I think we do.
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Jun 24, 2016 23:43
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Elentor posted:It's weird to think that somehow things go downhill after it. Also the Lich King is the only one out of six major plot villains that we actually lay the killing blow. At least I think we do. Technically we don't but without the PC's Ghost Dad doesn't get out of that sword. And Ghost Dad's the one who gets the 'final blow' for that. That's still a full step more credit than the PC's usually get.
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Jun 24, 2016 23:47
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Also like, you know how you are the Warrior of Light and supremely plot critical and people give a poo poo and respect you? What if you were just "brave member of the scions" and no one acknowledged the poo poo you did
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Jun 24, 2016 23:47
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EponymousMrYar posted:Technically we don't but without the PC's Ghost Dad doesn't get out of that sword. And Ghost Dad's the one who gets the 'final blow' for that. That's still a full step more credit than the PC's usually get. Oh, welp, I'm misremembering it then. Looks like we don't lay the killing blow on any WoW expansion antagonist after all!
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Jun 24, 2016 23:51
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Farg posted:Also like, you know how you are the Warrior of Light and supremely plot critical and people give a poo poo and respect you? What if you were just "brave member of the scions" and no one acknowledged the poo poo you did Yup, that's GW2 in a nutshell. To be fair, while in FFXIV you're plot critical and well-respected, you're also essentially a weapon with personality. "Oh no, another primal has popped up? Someone find the Warrior of Light and point 'em in the right direction." Not that it isn't fun, and no other game is really any better, but it makes things a lot less interesting than they could be. I'm thinking in particular of one of the early Heavensward missions: When Alphinaud and Tataru are arrested for being "heretics," and you and Harchefant must rush to their defense. How will you clear these erroneous charges? Perhaps by a bit of detective work, collecting evidence and testimony to prove your friends' innocence? Nope, trial by combat! 
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Jun 25, 2016 00:06
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IIRC, Lich King plot raidwipes everyone at 10%, in-battle cutscene plays, everyone gets rezzed by Ghost Dad, and then you beat on a loot pinata for the remaining 10% with Ghost Dad and Not-orc Mary Sue helping.
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Jun 25, 2016 00:09
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Solumin posted:Yup, that's GW2 in a nutshell. <grunt>
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Jun 25, 2016 00:09
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vOv posted:<grunt> <stoic nod>
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Jun 25, 2016 00:13
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in legion they're making illidan into the holy savior of the universe against demons and i don't know poo poo about starcraft but apparently this is the second story where they think "i can be ur angle or ur devil" is a good character arc
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Jun 25, 2016 00:14
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Farg posted:Also like, you know how you are the Warrior of Light and supremely plot critical and people give a poo poo and respect you? What if you were just "brave member of the scions" and no one acknowledged the poo poo you did This is literally my favorite thing. You're on a first name basis with Eorzea's leaders, and are super well known and regarded to the point where you couldn't be easily framed for murder in the public eye. You've literally made history by ending the Dragonsong War and everyone treats you accordingly. You even have people (Merlwyb arguably) taking advantage of your one-of-a-kind skills. You are flat out acknowledged for your deeds; hell your service at the first steps of faith was enough for them to grant you historic entrance to Ishgard. The epilogue quest after the 3.3 story wouldn't be possible in other MMOs because in WoW you didn't do anything special and in GW2 all the people you work with sacrificed themselves during the course of the story.
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Jun 25, 2016 00:14
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FFXIV takes it too far in the other direction and makes basically every NPC feel worthless because the WoL is the only character who seems capable of doing anything. The scions basically exist to be someone to talk at you. I literally can't remember the last time they did anything actually meaningful. Except 2.55 which was less "meaningful contribution" and more "getting written out of the 3.0 story"
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Jun 25, 2016 00:17
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sword_man.gif posted:in legion they're making illidan into the holy savior of the universe against demons and i don't know poo poo about starcraft but apparently this is the second story where they think "i can be ur angle or ur devil" is a good character arc From what I've heard from people familiar with WoW and other Blizzard games, one of the writers, Chris Metzen, has a serious corruption fetish. (For example, Widowmaker from the game Overwatch.)
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Jun 25, 2016 00:19
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Solumin posted:From what I've heard from people familiar with WoW and other Blizzard games, one of the writers, Chris Metzen, has a serious corruption fetish. (For example, Widowmaker from the game Overwatch.) no he was corrupted in warcraft 3, killed in burning crusade, and now they're going "uhhhh we have literally no idea how to write a new character anymore" and are saying actually he was just stuck in a crystal when he flopped over dead in the raid and also he will be the holy savior of the universe while still being half-demon like angel or devil isn't hyperbole, he's literally an elf demon angel
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Jun 25, 2016 00:20
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DACK FAYDEN posted:As a broken human being, I appreciated doing more damage and having to hit fewer buttons and was actually sad when I had to go to 123123123123 rather than 1111111111 Weapon: Cra V, Con IV Offhand: Cra V CP IV Head: Con V, Con IV, Cra IV, Con III, Cra I Chest: Cra V, Con IV, Cra IV, Cra III, Cra III Hands: Cra V, Con IV, Con IV Waist: Cra V, CP IV Legs: Con V, Con IV, CP IV, Con III, Cra I Boots: Con V, Con IV, CP IV, Con III, Cra I Neck: Cra V, Con IV Earrings: Cra V, Con IV Bracelets: Cra V, CP IV Rings: Con V, CP IV, Cra III, Cra I Do keep in mind that this is very overkill. I only melded like this because I'm trying to test the accuracy of my formulas since the publicly known ARR formulas broke with HW. On the other hand I just HQd 33 Luminous Fibers without using any Specialist actions. Feels good. Elentor fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 00:25
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Ryanbomber posted:FFXIV takes it too far in the other direction and makes basically every NPC feel worthless because the WoL is the only character who seems capable of doing anything. The Scions are the chief victims of this but other NPC's aren't just token. Consider the whole 'alliance tournament' arc which culminated with the Raubahn fight, Hullbreaker HM with the Stormcloaks (Slafyrsyn puts out a surprising amount of damage before donning the mask,) and even the Fate of Stars quest where Y'shtola, Urianger and Krile get some credit even though it's more in the line of 'remember Gaius and how you fought him with 8 people? Here's someone like him and you're doing this solo check how much you've gotten good at this' series of instanced story quests. SE's been doing such a good job with balancing how crazy awesome the WoL is compared to the other notable NPC's it's more that they just haven't gotten around to giving the next group the spotlight rather than making them feel worthless (Scions excepted because they did get the short stick.) It wouldn't surprise me for a 'WoL and Pals vs. the Three Grand Companies' dungeon to be in the works, considering the Flames have Raubahn, we just did Hullbreaker HM and the Adder's are all about healing/archery rather than in-your-face fighting (and they're the only ones left out at this point.)
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Jun 25, 2016 00:33
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Solumin posted:Yup, that's GW2 in a nutshell. The game/writers are aware of this, too - a lot of NPCs will actually balk at your assistance , because surely you must have better poo poo to do than come all the way out there and help them. It's a limitiation of the genre, but the writers do a good job of rolling with it, too. e: re the Scions, the last big moment of awesome was probably way back during Leviathan's plot arc in 2.2. It's been a while.
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Jun 25, 2016 00:38
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Solumin posted:Yup, that's GW2 in a nutshell. My understanding is that this is, in part, a cultural thing. Japan prefers/favors silent protagonists so that you can headcanon whatever you think you would want to say. It's not my preferred way of doing it, but I can understand the idea 
Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 00:42
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... Whatever.
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Jun 25, 2016 00:45
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Just wait for 6.5 when the WOL gets fed up with being used and manipulated and shouts NOOOOOOOOOOOOO while shattering hydaelyn
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Jun 25, 2016 00:49
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Actually in 3.5 it'll turn out that minfilia is such a bad vessel you have to put her into a hydraulic press to remake her into a crystal and while you're trying to get your gopro to work an ascian destroys it and world ends. Please look forward to FF17
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Jun 25, 2016 00:53
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Actually, the scions haven't been doing half-bad since 3.0. Thancred managed to piss off and then beat up a cyclops during 3.2's story so I think he's doing okay for himself, Alphinaud has developed a lot as a character, Y'shtola is at least competent, and Krile just flat out owns.
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Jun 25, 2016 00:55
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I'd generally agree. The current cast of Scions does a decent job of making their presence felt and meaningful. Papalymo and Yda have always been extraneous as all hell and struggled to find a niche, along with Minfilia. Ideally that will change what with Papalymo and Yda collaborating with the Ala Mhigan Resistance
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Jun 25, 2016 00:58
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SwissArmyDruid posted:IIRC, Lich King plot raidwipes everyone at 10%, in-battle cutscene plays, everyone gets rezzed by Ghost Dad, and then you beat on a loot pinata for the remaining 10% with Ghost Dad and Not-orc Mary Sue helping. Yeah. You don't even have to take the rez to win the fight. Tirion will take out that last 10% over the course of about an hour if you let him.
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Jun 25, 2016 00:58
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Captain Oblivious posted:I'd generally agree. The current cast of Scions does a decent job of making their presence felt and meaningful. They might not have done much but they have a pretty good comic relief dynamic imo. I always liked returning to the Rising Stones and seeing what they were up to.
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Jun 25, 2016 01:16
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Solumin posted:To be fair, while in FFXIV you're plot critical and well-respected, you're also essentially a weapon with personality. "Oh no, another primal has popped up? Someone find the Warrior of Light and point 'em in the right direction." Not that it isn't fun, and no other game is really any better, but it makes things a lot less interesting than they could be. I'm thinking in particular of one of the early Heavensward missions: When Alphinaud and Tataru are arrested for being "heretics," and you and Harchefant must rush to their defense. How will you clear these erroneous charges? Perhaps by a bit of detective work, collecting evidence and testimony to prove your friends' innocence? Nope, trial by combat! To be fair, this is one of my favourite things about the FF14 plot. The WoL don't give no fucks, she's just an unstoppable juggernaut of death who will hit whatever problem comes up next with an axe until it fucks off, whether it's a god or politics or someone's personal drama. She is also a 4'10" catgirl with a weapon bigger than her. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 01:25
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Lemon-Lime posted:To be fair, this is one of my favourite things about the FF14 plot. The WoL don't give no fucks, she's just an unstoppable juggernaut of death who will hit whatever problem comes up next with an axe until it fucks off, whether it's a god or politics or someone's personal drama. I know you're talking about the MRD questline, but now I'm just imagining a sidequest where you have to solve some sort of relationship issue by hitting the personification of it with an axe.
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Jun 25, 2016 01:28
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That was kind of what happened with Greg and Enkidu. Kinda.
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Jun 25, 2016 01:40
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Yeah, they absolutely do make it work as much as they can.Niton posted:The game/writers are aware of this, too - a lot of NPCs will actually balk at your assistance , because surely you must have better poo poo to do than come all the way out there and help them. It's a limitiation of the genre, but the writers do a good job of rolling with it, too. There's one particular moment in some part of the ARR story where Alphinaud calls you out for responding entirely with expressionless nodding. And the WoL just nods in response. 
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Jun 25, 2016 01:49
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Solumin posted:Here is a summary of the last chapter of the GW2 personal story: EponymousMrYar posted:SE's been doing such a good job with balancing how crazy awesome the WoL is compared to the other notable NPC's it's more that they just haven't gotten around to giving the next group the spotlight rather than making them feel worthless (Scions excepted because they did get the short stick.)
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Jun 25, 2016 01:50
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Here's the codes of the things I didn't want from the Amazon promotion. Have at. Butler Attire: FAPU NS8N 3BKK 4379 JSNA Crag Mask: FAHU 4PFU 926J J7G5 7YXA Inferno Mask: FANU VAPY 88HB YK26 PWPP
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Jun 25, 2016 02:03
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Also, I was reading about the newest WoW expansion - Apparently they kill of the Human king (Varian) and the Troll leader (Vol'jin), the latter who was the active warchief. And Sylvanas is now the Warchief of the Horde. Oh an the former Dwarf leader (Magni) has become one with the planet - who is actually a titan.
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Jun 25, 2016 02:05
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Sentient Data posted:Since nobody else answered you, activating ARR on a PS3 and PS4 each get you a free month of playtime (as I'd imagine the Mac one does, but I can't confirm), but there's an important point: Thanks Sentient (and everyone else that responded.) The only downside of this was having to download the game client on the PS4 to link the accounts.
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Jun 25, 2016 02:06
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Elentor posted:Weapon: Cra V, Con IV
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Jun 25, 2016 02:16
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Mordiceius posted:Also, I was reading about the newest WoW expansion - And this is why I don't understand why Blizzard thought anyone would want to see a Warcraft movie. Although I guess the movie covers the plot of Warcraft: Orcs and Humans. Which didn't have much of a plot.
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Jun 25, 2016 02:28
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Is there really any need to spoil an unreleased game. I think we beat WoW down enough as it is.
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Jun 25, 2016 02:31
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Elentor posted:Is there really any need to spoil an unreleased game. To be fair Blizzard regularly does that themselves. See also: Releasing Justice for Thrall way WAY in advance
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Jun 25, 2016 03:03
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