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Hogge Wild posted:They just liked drinking. When asking "why?" questions about historical figures, most can probably be answered in this way.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:44
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Nebakenezzer posted:I just spent 15 or so minutes looking for that post you made, it was fairly astonishing. (I think the PM was Pitt the Younger?) It took a fuckton of effort to find it, but I finally remembered what thread it was in. It's the mock elections of history thread. Here's your post and mine for context: quote:
quote:I got curious and actually did the math. That's 3838 bottles of wine in one year, or 10.5 bottles per day. That averages out to 0.6 bottles per hour (assuming he's awake for 16 hours and asleep for 8 every night instead of binge drinking, doing cocaine and snuff, and only sleeping two hours a night; using a 24 hour model, it's 0.4 bottles per hour).
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Jun 25, 2016 05:07
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P-Mack posted:The OG wangs Never again shall the words "OG wangs" be uttered and be completely appropriate. quote:Bao Chao鮑超- A fearless and talented commander, even Shi Dakai would hesitate to engage forces commanded by Bao Chao. In contrast to the other commanders from the educated gentry, Bao was illiterate. On one occasion he is surrounded by enemy troops, but smuggles a message to Zeng Guofan that is simply "Bao" surrounded by circles. Zeng understands it completely and dispatches relief. This guy is already my favorite.
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Jun 25, 2016 05:14
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Ainsley McTree posted:Oh. Well I still don't like it That's fine. More for us.
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Jun 25, 2016 05:16
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Down with IPA!
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Jun 25, 2016 08:15
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JcDent posted:Down with IPA! I keep reading this thread and wondering why the International Phonetic Alphabet is so contentious.
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Jun 25, 2016 11:20
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sullat posted:I think there's another bit where she has to knock on the door to Parliament a couple of times before they let her in, to remind her that she is there by their command, not the other way around. I thought it was that she goes to the House of Lords, because those are her buddies. Then the disgusting commoners are summoned, and when the sergeant arrives to deliver the summons, they slam the door in his face and he has to knock. This has gone on so long there is a groove in the door where dozens of generations of sergeants had to knock. I love that kind of poo poo. The German parliament constitutes itself with the oldest member of the house as provisional speaker. So you got some old-rear end back-bencher who still gets to hold a speech on whatever he drat well pleases on national television before they elect the designated speaker.
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Jun 25, 2016 11:29
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spectralent posted:I keep reading this thread and wondering why the International Phonetic Alphabet is so contentious. India Pale Ale is delicious  And per that link, it looks like adding loads of hops for warm climates was actually A Thing so 'there was nothing especially hoppy or strong about the pale ale being shipped to India as compared to that being consumed in England' is only half right.feedmegin fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 12:03
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Isopropyl alcohol is really useful but I wouldn't try drinking it. (IPA really is one of those acronyms isn't it)
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Jun 25, 2016 12:22
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my dad posted:That's... unexpectedly rad, actually. the british and the United Netherlands are where we and the french got a bunch of our ideas for how we should govern ourselves, for more information read anyone on the "radical enlightenment" who is not Jonathan Israel, like Margaret Jacob edit: the brits did have to murder themselves over it for a few years, but it was nowhere near as bad as the 17th century everywhere else, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i mean, reading about the things i read about, english civilians were lucky. for some reason that war was light on the atrocities HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 12:48
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ArchangeI posted:I thought it was that she goes to the House of Lords, because those are her buddies. Then the disgusting commoners are summoned, and when the sergeant arrives to deliver the summons, they slam the door in his face and he has to knock. This has gone on so long there is a groove in the door where dozens of generations of sergeants had to knock. This is more like it; and it's a guy called the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod who does the summoning (because we like silly titles and the symbol of his office is, yes, a large black rod, which he uses to give the doors a good thump) who's a retired general. That one goes back to a specific incident when Charles I came into the House to arrest five MPs who he didn't like very much, and [FUTURE PARLIAMENT AT SOME TIME AFTER] decided they needed a way of demonstrating that they would only ever thereafter allow the Crown or its representative into the chamber if he was coming for some lawful purpose. That's the precise reason they shut the door on Black Rod; they're taking a moment to verify that the Crown is acting within the law and not making poo poo up as it goes along according to the Divine Right of Kings, and as it happens it is lawful for the Queen to summon her subjects to attend her in this fashion, so they open the door again. (They then demonstrate independence of action after the speech by first bringing in the Outlawries Bill, which is an equally lawful exercise of their own authority.)
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Jun 25, 2016 14:07
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Since some people keep notes to themselves in their muster rolls, sometimes I get scraps of stories that I'll never get to follow up on: Upper entry: Frantz von Nossitz the elder, 2 horses Lower entry: + Frantz von Nossitz the younger, 1 horse. Died at Eger (modern-day Cheb) This cuirassier company is also in a regiment where nobody has any weapons, armor, or (in some cases) clothing or horses. Undated but probably from late '31, because someone mentions a battle at Prague and the Saxons sacked Prague in late 31. edit: It's like a koan: what's the difference between a cuirassier with no pistols or armor and just some guy? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 14:54
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chitoryu12 posted:It took a fuckton of effort to find it, but I finally remembered what thread it was in. It's the mock elections of history thread. Here's your post and mine for context: Minor point: According to one source, the bottles Pitt was drinking may not have been the standard 750mL used today, but were more likely hand-blown 350mL, and the port he was drinking may have been weaker than modern port, so you can cut most of those numbers by a bit more than half. Of course, that still means he drank roughly 4-500mL of pure ethanol per day.
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Jun 25, 2016 15:34
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darthbob88 posted:Minor point: According to one source, the bottles Pitt was drinking may not have been the standard 750mL used today, but were more likely hand-blown 350mL, and the port he was drinking may have been weaker than modern port, so you can cut most of those numbers by a bit more than half. Of course, that still means he drank roughly 4-500mL of pure ethanol per day. Plus I assume that is the consumption of his household, including what he served at dinners and poo poo.
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Jun 25, 2016 15:45
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I imagine the man shared with company/clerks as well. Still, more like PITT THE DRUNKER AM I RIGHT GENTLEMEN?
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Jun 25, 2016 15:50
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100 Years Ago Sometimes there are light, fluffy, hilarious days. Sometimes there are heavy, blood-and-guts, horrific days. Henri Desagneaux kicks it off; we now have a direct admission from an officer that he kept his men in their "trenches" (which are now being rebuilt out of the bodies of the dead) at the point of his revolver. And then Emilio Lussu continues the theme; yesterday's general has come down from the tree and is demanding a man be summarily executed for issuing a legitimate military command. Erm, so in lighter news...a worrying number of British artillery shells are exploding immediately after leaving the gun barrel; E.S. Thompson has a good dinner, which promptly gives him nightmares about being shelled and killed; Malcolm White reads the poems of Charles Hamilton Sorley; and idiot son of a Montreal millionaire Clifford Wells somehow manages to set me up for a "Who's on First?" gag.
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Jun 25, 2016 17:49
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Anyone seen Free State of Jones?
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Jun 25, 2016 18:35
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Trin Tragula posted:Yes it does, and they need to pass a Bill to re-authorise its existence; until quite recently it was once a year just like the budget (and doing so was a convenient excuse to have regular debates about general military policy). At the moment it's every five years, and thanks to our glorious unwritten constitution they could just go "gently caress it, we'll give it perpetual authority already", but at this point re-authorising the Army has become a symbolic thing as much as anything else. It's like how after the Queen officially opens Parliament each year, the House of Commons immediately goes into session, and the first order of business is to debate "A Bill for more effectively preventing clandestine Outlawries"; they do it for about 30 seconds (and the Bill never goes any further), and then they get on with discussing the government's legislative programme which was just outlined in the Queen's speech, but the point is to demonstrate that Parliament is not beholden to doing what the Crown tells it to do. As representatives of the people, not the monarch, they can decide their own business as they please, and they demonstrate it in the most British fashion possible, by passive-aggressively not immediately talking about what the Queen just did. What happens if the queen's speech mentions clandestine outlawries?
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Jun 25, 2016 21:00
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Waci posted:What happens if the queen's speech mentions clandestine outlawries? Now you're into Gay Black Hitler territory; you might as well ask "what if Britain stopped drinking tea"? (The Government writes the speech; the Queen recites it word for word. Constitutional monarchy is a trip.)
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Jun 25, 2016 21:15
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Trin Tragula posted:Now you're into Gay Black Hitler territory; you might as well ask "what if Britain stopped drinking tea"? Well, then what happens if clandestine outlawries is such a pressing issue the government feels compelled to include it in the speech??? What then???????
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Jun 25, 2016 21:56
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Then there will probably be a constitutional crisis.
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Jun 25, 2016 22:08
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Hazzard posted:Pikes are kindof out of place. They'd disappeared from most of Europe after the fall of Rome. Populations weren't big enough to make it worth it and the fighting men that did exist didn't use pikes. The sorts of professional soldiery, knights and men-at-arms would not be in the position to learn pikes. To use pikes you need fairly well drilled men in large numbers together, so they can learn it properly. The Flemish were using pike blocks effectively around 1300. More importantly we have voluminous attestations of pike formations used by the medieval Scots (the famous schiltron). Historical accounts of the 14th century wars between England and Scotland indicate that the overwhelming bulk of Scottish armies were constituted from schiltrons. The Scottish cavalry was always heavily outnumbered and, speculatively, they probably also had inferior equipment and mounts because of the geography, isolation, and relative poverty of Scotland. Likewise, pikes are relatively less expensive than other weapons, and their control of distance somewhat protects the men wielding them if, say, they can't afford a lot of armor. So, it is a good option for the medieval army on a budget, which is probably about the same reasoning as the Flemish had. There are also some accounts of pikes being used by the Welsh and English, though I don't think it was with anywhere near the same prominence as the Scots. Considering that George R.R. Martin (and the show-runners) based the North on the north of England and lowland Scotland, it's very appropriate to see pike formations of some kind, although what we got wasn't really... functional.
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Jun 25, 2016 22:15
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Are clandestine outlawries like not a big issue in england?
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Jun 25, 2016 22:20
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Empress Theonora posted:Well, then what happens if clandestine outlawries is such a pressing issue the government feels compelled to include it in the speech??? What then??????? Then they'll discuss outlawed clandestinery. Actually no they'll discuss the decision to put the membership in one of the most important international organizations to a simple majority vote I imagine they'll need longer than 30 seconds to discuss that
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Jun 25, 2016 22:42
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Trin Tragula posted:Now you're into Gay Black Hitler territory; you might as well ask "what if Britain stopped drinking tea"? Most people my age and younger seem to prefer coffee.
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Jun 25, 2016 22:44
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EvanSchenck posted:Considering that George R.R. Martin (and the show-runners) based the North on the north of England and lowland Scotland, it's very appropriate to see pike formations of some kind, although what we got wasn't really... functional. edit: Half of the guys here could be people i know   HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 22:45
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feedmegin posted:Most people my age and younger seem to prefer coffee. I've never drunk tea nor enjoy hot drinks. Reverse Vampire, I know.
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Jun 25, 2016 22:54
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Trin Tragula posted:100 Years Ago also i meant to reply to this earlier but jesus christ  quote:We are powerless, isolated from everything with no means of communication. There’s blood everywhere. The heat is atrocious. The corpses stink. The flies buzz. It’s enough to drive one mad. Two men commit suicide.
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Jun 25, 2016 23:57
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HEY GAL posted:it's also possible they wanted to evoke images of a more merciless time than the Fake High Middle Ages, since the Boltons are supposed to be terrible people. Looking at stills on the internet, the Bolton soldiers are also wearing 17th century helmets and leather jacket-looking things Previously I've seen some analysis of Game of Thrones costuming and such, it's kind of interesting. For example, Stannis Baratheon wore this armor:  It's a mail shirt with plate components, but if you look closely you can see that the plate is incorporated directly into the mail. The edges of the plates have holes drilled so the rings loop right into them, as opposed to most kinds of plate which were separate pieces worn over a hauberk. Nobody else on the show wears anything like it, and it isn't really a recognizable historical European type. The costume department actually based it on armor worn by the Moro people of the Philippines:  Which is obviously a bad choice coming from the direction of full historical accuracy. On the other hand, it's still functional as armor and importantly for a TV show it's visually distinctive and interesting to look at. They also play around with some visual shorthand. e.g. for Jon Snow, his narrative arc for this season has also involved a wardrobe change. Previously he wore this kind of crude-looking breastplate and pauldrons, probably munitions-grade stuff from the Night's Watch armory, but with season 6 he started wearing the same sort of coat of plate as Eddard Stark wore in Season 1, and Robb Stark wore under his partial harness of plate. So he's back fighting for his family, wearing his family armor. I would definitely agree that the costume department picked the morion-type helmet deliberately to make the Bolton troops look like the hated Spaniards. There are reasons for all that stuff. I find the whole thing with leather in medieval/fantasy visual arts kind of fascinating, because draping everybody in leather is now the standard way to show that you are a period film set in the middle ages or some facsimile thereof. You also consistently see a color palette for clothing and armor that ranges from black to dark brown. Whereas in actuality, I believe leather was used almost exclusive for footwear and accessories, and as you're fond of noting everybody dressed as colorfully as possible at all times. I honestly wonder where these conventions began? You can jump back to stuff like the 1938 Adventures of Robin Hood (the Errol Flynn one) and, okay, everybody is wearing leather (suede?) jerkins over their clothes, but most of their clothes are really loud colors--lively greens, reds, blues, etc. Look at these fancy lads:  I think the main reason for those costuming choices was to take advantage of filming in Technicolor, but intentionally or not they got closer to a medieval person's idea of a good wardrobe than any recent movie I can think of. edit: talking specifically about color, there, not the cut and style of the clothes themselves Schenck v. U.S. fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 00:22
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Historically wouldn't the ancient dyes have faded quickly with weather and travel, and everyone on campaign ends up wearing faded grey or brown? That was something said about even the Napoleonic era uniforms, they may have been intended to look bright red or green when they left the mill but mostly just looked grey or brown after some wear. The scenes of urban nobles in GoT show them wearing bright colors.
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Jun 26, 2016 00:28
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Is there any technological link to helmets? Like, could Rome have hypothetically invented the morion and then that be the standard helmet instead of the Gallic Helm? Until an advanced understanding of physics comes in, I don't see how anyone would decide one helmet was better than another.
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Jun 26, 2016 00:44
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I think helmet design is less based on what technology you have and more based on what technology/weapons your opponents have. For example, IIRC the roman helmet was redesigned to better counter the falx used by the Dacians, which when used against roman shieldwalls tended to land a piercing blow from directly above.
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Jun 26, 2016 00:46
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Throatwarbler posted:Historically wouldn't the ancient dyes have faded quickly with weather and travel, and everyone on campaign ends up wearing faded grey or brown? That was something said about even the Napoleonic era uniforms, they may have been intended to look bright red or green when they left the mill but mostly just looked grey or brown after some wear. Nobles can afford way better quality dye (and more uniforms. And shelter)
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Jun 26, 2016 01:10
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The Lone Badger posted:I think helmet design is less based on what technology you have and more based on what technology/weapons your opponents have. Well yeah Hazzard posted:Is there any technological link to helmets? Like, could Rome have hypothetically invented the morion and then that be the standard helmet instead of the Gallic Helm? Because they fight wars constantly against people with all kinds of designs, and experience a great deal of trial and error?
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Jun 26, 2016 01:29
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Hazzard posted:Is there any technological link to helmets? Like, could Rome have hypothetically invented the morion and then that be the standard helmet instead of the Gallic Helm? Trial and error, the same as anything else. The morion, for example, is probably a more advanced version of the earlier kettle hat. You start with a skullcap type helmet but add a wide steel brim for additional protection, especially to blows coming down from above. Kettle hats were commonly manufactured in several pieces and then riveted together, because the technology of the time wasn't up to making them to shape from a single piece of steel. They also varied in design but, quite often, they were pretty low and flat on top. The morion is similar in being a brimmed helmet. However, the crown is high and rounded, improving deflection. The distinctive comb on the top adds structural strength, similar to fluting. The strongly curved brim retains the added protection but obstructs less of the soldier's vision, which could be a real problem with the kettle hat (some examples of kettle hats include eye-slits or even just big pieces of the brim cut out in front of the eyes, for this reason). Finally, the morion is made in one piece, instead of multiple bits riveted together, which again makes it more resilient. As to whether the Romans could have made the morion, I think they would have struggled with the one-piece construction. The design itself is straightforward and shares some analogous features with the Gallic helm, which has protective brims over the nape of the neck and above the forehead. The specific design of the morion builds on earlier helmets, though. It would be more likely to see a helmet that was similar but didn't look exactly the same. Also bear in mind that a helmet being more technically advanced or historically recent does not mean it is necessarily better. The same is true for any kind of armor, frankly, because the design is not purely a factor of protection. You also have to consider weight, flexibility, cost, ease of maintenance, breathing, hearing, sight, etc. The morion was very good for the renaissance soldier, but other designs are better for other roles.
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Jun 26, 2016 01:57
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StashAugustine posted:Anyone seen Free State of Jones? not much besides how it and birth of a nation is pissing off southerners somewhat, which is always great
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Jun 26, 2016 03:42
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So whose the harder drinker, Hooker or Grant?
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Jun 26, 2016 06:41
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HEY GAL posted:the 17th century here to remind you guys that things could always be wars I like this way better. HEY GAL posted:also, is 16" too long for a dagger? i just got a dagger and i'm worried it's too long. should i return it and get a shorter one instead? How often did your guys up and return daggers to the master of arms or the quartermaster or whoever?
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Jun 26, 2016 06:55
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EvanSchenck posted:The costume department actually based it on armor worn by the Moro people of the Philippines: There's a couple of Safavid and Mughal suits that have a similar configuration of plates like the op pic, but with rectangular plates at the chest instead of the round one like these turkish suits, but then, I don't collect armorpics. Good guess that that Moro armorsmith copied that. 
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Jun 26, 2016 09:58
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EvanSchenck posted:I would definitely agree that the costume department picked the morion-type helmet deliberately to make the Bolton troops look like the hated Spaniards. edit: also look at the shoulders of the Bolton troops--they're wearing those late 16th/17th century sleeve flap things edit 2: anti-Hispanic bigotry in history writing is actually a huge problem edit 3: EvanSchenck posted:There are reasons for all that stuff. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 10:05
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