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Nitrousoxide posted:The ACLU's defense of a neo nazis right to gather for a rally in a town where 1/6 people was a Holocaust survivor is both a landmark SCOTUS case taught to every law school student and was posted right before your post. It's also an example why unfettered free speech is stupid and we should have a German style ban on Nazism.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:01
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SSNeoman posted:Guys you're defending people even the ACLU has second thoughts about defending. Perhaps the slope you're presenting isn't as steep as you think it is. We're talking about Neo-Nazis, not fundamentalist churchgoers. What do you mean by the ACLU having second thoughts about defending them? e: To be clear, I'm honestly curious. I know they've defended Neo-Nazis' civil liberties in the past but I didn't see where they have had second thoughts. They mentioned it in the membership literature they sent to me last year or so, so it doesn't seem like they've tried to distance themselves from it. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 04:01
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Samurai Sanders posted:I can't even think the words "they fired a cat" without laughing out loud. I wonder, could they? Meow, Meow meow meow, meow meow meow meow meow. Meow, meow meow meow meow meow meow. Meow, Meow (Human and Animal Resources Director)
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Jun 27, 2016 04:02
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RZA Encryption posted:It's like you don't understand the magnitude of difference between "Nazism" and normal political opposition. Basically this: Sunset posted:Ah yes - a request for not-violence/bloodshed in parks and public = defending the Neo-Nazis, and not even the ACLU would do that. I'm arguing for non-violent counter protesting and I think doxxing is probably responsible too. Violent attacks against 25 nazis protesting doesn't stop nazis, it helps the nazi's own arguements and it does nothing to stop fascism in America. It hurts the cause, doesn't even stop those specific nazis and is adding more lovely street violence. It's a lose/lose.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:02
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RZA Encryption posted:It's also an example why unfettered free speech is stupid and we should have a German style ban on Nazism. The speech in the USA is hardly unfettered. But it is something Germany should aspire to.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:04
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RZA Encryption posted:It's also an example why unfettered free speech is stupid and we should have a German style ban on Nazism. Have you even ever heard of HUAC?
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Jun 27, 2016 04:04
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Trabisnikof posted:Have you even ever heard of HUAC? I don't understand your argument. Are you saying that it would be unjust to oppress Nazis? That it should actually be open to debate as to whether someone should be allowed to be one? It was wrong for HUAC to assume all communists were bad. It is not wrong to assume all Nazis are bad.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:11
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Samurai Sanders posted:I can't even think the words "they fired a cat" without laughing out loud. I wonder, could they? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Mouser_to_the_Cabinet_Office
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Jun 27, 2016 04:15
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DemeaninDemon posted:So when is violence appropriate when dealing with people who believe undesirable races/political alignments should die? Frankly what is acceptable is based on the general societal will.If someone stabs a fascist and gets a slap on the wrist then effectively they are punished for the unseemliness of the violence not for attacking another human being with conflicting views.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:16
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Trabisnikof posted:Have you even ever heard of HUAC? You realize Germany isn't like, starting up witch hunts for fascists
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Jun 27, 2016 04:19
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Speaking of beating the poo poo out of people and firing cats... I keep hearing the DNC's new platform is... • Too pro-Israel • Too pro-fracking • Too anti-environment • Too pro-TPP Anyone want to help me filter what's Bernout sour grapes and what isn't or is their new platform just lovely? I don't know what's real anymore but it's starting to seem like it doesn't matter.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:22
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By the way, as thing stand, there will be no cats in the White House next year. Hillary has three dogs: Seamus, Tally, and Maisie. Trump has a golden lab named Spinee who underwent surgery in February and may now be dead.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:22
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Joementum posted:By the way, as thing stand, there will be no cats in the White House next year. Where did you bury the dog Trump
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Jun 27, 2016 04:23
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Noam Chomsky posted:Speaking of beating the poo poo out of people and firing cats... It doesn't matter what it actually says, it matters what you can write garbage thinkpieces about. We're in a post-facts political world.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:23
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Joementum posted:Trump has a golden lab named Spinee who underwent surgery in February and may now be dead. Trump was having him gilded.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:24
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What if Hillary killed Trump's dog and made it personal
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Jun 27, 2016 04:24
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Noam Chomsky posted:• Too pro-Israel 1. It supports military aid to Israel and recognizes Jerusalem as the capital. 2. It does not call for a ban on fracking. 3. See above. 4. It says there is "a diversity of views" on TPP in the party and calls for protections on worker's rights.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:25
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Noam Chomsky posted:Speaking of beating the poo poo out of people and firing cats... Obviously they weren't going to get everything they wanted so anything they'd failed to get they'd criticize. They're now criticizing things they didn't get. Ez-Pz
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Jun 27, 2016 04:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ukFAvYP3UU depicted: American mythological heroes victorious over their despicable nemeses Joementum posted:By the way, as thing stand, there will be no cats in the White House next year.  While there may not be a cat in the running, you're missing a presidential dog here Joe.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:27
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Are there still serious fracking projects ongoing? I thought the oil price drop killed off most of them.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:27
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No President is going to come close to being as awesome as Calvin Coolidge as far as pets are concerned: Prudence Prim, female white collie Rob Roy, male white collie Peter Pan, terrier Paul Pry, an Airedale terrier Calamity Jane, Shetland sheepdog Tiny Tim, chow Blackberry, also a chow Ruby Rouch, brown collie Bessie, collie Boston Beans, bulldog King Kole, German shepherd Bessie, collie Palo Alto, bird dog Nip and Tuck, canaries Snowflake, also a white canary Old Bill, a thrush Enoch, goose Mockingbird belonging to Grace Coolidge Tiger, cat Blacky, another cat Rebecca and Reuben, raccoons Ebenezer, donkey Smoky, bobcat
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Jun 27, 2016 04:29
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ayyy lmao https://twitter.com/Deanofcomedy/status/747099421960179712
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Jun 27, 2016 04:29
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The point you mouth breathers is that bashing nazi's and german style bans causes more damage then it fixs. Nobody is defending Nazis. If we could beat them in a vacuum with no repercussions that would be great. The problem is that allowing young protesters the leeway to bash people that they think need bashing is going to cause more problems than it fixes, because lol if you think it's going to stop at Nazis. It's going to slippery slope to other people they don't like. All you wind up with is a new flavour of fascism fighting the approved bad guy version.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:29
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fool_of_sound posted:Are there still serious fracking projects ongoing? I thought the oil price drop killed off most of them. Does it matter? It needs to be banned.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:29
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I applaud the stabbings at the neo-nazi march in California. Nazis deserve to be killed.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:31
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Noam Chomsky posted:Speaking of beating the poo poo out of people and firing cats... Hillary dumped nearly all of Bernie's pet issues and included her own, exactly as was expected. In most cases they weren't all that different, regardless. You can read it for yourself to decide how lovely you think the final product is. Not that anybody will care what's in the platform after the convention anyway.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:31
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I'd say the fracking/environmental probably are from it being pro-TPP in so far as it doesn't call for outright opposition to it. The pro-Israel is gonna be the same horseshit both parties spew about Israel forever until they gently caress it up, and opposition to which is one of those things I really appreciated about Bernie.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:31
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DemeaninDemon posted:So when is violence appropriate when dealing with people who believe undesirable races/political alignments should die? Only in self-defense. Violence begets violence. Even terrible people often have families who love them and at any time those terrible people may change their ways. A potential consequence of violence is death. Committing acts of violence against terrible people means you may deprive them of an opportunity to change. Sure, if you beat a violent Nazi to death you may be saving the life of some future victim of theirs or maybe you'd just be killing some disenfranchised idiot who is too stupid to know better and is otherwise harmless. The point is that in civilized society we don't leave the decisions of who to beat up to your average citizen; we let the police make those decisions, and they've decided that it's the blacks who should be beat to death.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:32
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Obama pulling out the weird strategy of not selling arms to Iran illegally to fund Central American death squads and not loving his interns in his office. (His approval rating is also higher than George W. Bush's and LBJ's at this time in office.)
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Jun 27, 2016 04:32
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Joementum posted:Obama pulling out the weird strategy of not selling arms to Iran illegally to fund Central American death squads and not loving his interns in his office. Or he's doing both of those things at the same time to make them positives. Edit: He's loving Iran in his office and selling arms to interns.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:33
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fool_of_sound posted:Are there still serious fracking projects ongoing? I thought the oil price drop killed off most of them. Theyll start right back up when it becomes profitable to do so. Anything about nuclear energy?
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Jun 27, 2016 04:35
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Joementum posted:(His approval rating is also higher than George W. Bush's and LBJ's at this time in office.) At this time in LBJ's presidency, he was probably spending all day chain-smoking and avoiding people as much as possible.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:36
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Thanks for the DNC platform info. It sounds pretty bog standard DNC to me. I feared it was somehow egregiously horrible in some new way.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:36
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As a general rule, I don't think people should be stabbed for their political beliefs. The prosecution definitely wouldn't want me in the jury pool though
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Jun 27, 2016 04:37
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Main Paineframe posted:When has violent suppression ever put a dent in a political movement The Black Panthers say hi.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:43
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Noam Chomsky posted:Thanks for the DNC platform info. No one actually cares about the platform and it's pretty standard for the nominee to ignore it as the election progresses past the convention. It's really just a way to bring the elements of the party together and let them feel involved. Of course the hardcore Bernouts (all five of them left) will never be happy with the platform unless it exactly mirrors Bernie's campaign platform and maybe calls Hillary a oval office.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:45
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Star Man posted:I just had to share. White Settlement is on fire. This is amazing.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:45
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Joementum posted:No President is going to come close to being as awesome as Calvin Coolidge as far as pets are concerned: https://www.nps.gov/thrb/learn/historyculture/the-roosevelt-pets.htm quote:The Roosevelt children's family of pets included a small bear named Jonathan Edwards; a lizard named Bill; guinea pigs named Admiral Dewey, Dr. Johnson, Bishop Doane, Fighting Bob Evans, and Father O'Grady; Maude the pig; Josiah the badger; Eli Yale the blue macaw; Baron Spreckle the hen; a one-legged rooster; a hyena; a barn owl; Peter the rabbit; and Algonquin the pony. President Roosevelt loved the pets as much as his children did. Algonquin was so beloved that when the President's son Archie was sick in bed, his brothers Kermit and Quentin brought the pony up to his room in the elevator. But Algonquin was so captivated by his own reflection in the elevator mirror that it was hard to get him out!
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Jun 27, 2016 04:49
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It probably helps that Congress can't get out of its own way, and obviously Trump makes anyone look better. Plus since 2014 he has basically just done what he wanted since he no longer had to worry about elections.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:49
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JerryLee posted:What do you mean by the ACLU having second thoughts about defending them? https://www.aclu.org/aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie This was a case where neo-nazis wanted to have an anti-holocaust rally and the ACLU defended their right to free speech. This was super controversial, there was a lot of internal arguments and the ACLU initially did not want to take it, especially since Skookie was a village with many holocaust survivors. Some internal debate went on, and eventually the ACLU decided to defend the neo-nazis. A few old ACLU members quit basically on the spot because gently caress that. But as your literature stated, they eventually relented and represented the nazis in court, and they won. They use this case to make a point about how free speech is important to everyone, and they will defend anyone whose free speech right is infringed in any way. They picked a road of thorns, and I respect that, even if I disagree with giving hate groups free speech protection. This dude talks about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6wbNIdm2lY How in god's name this poo poo didn't qualify as "fighting words" is beyond me. The ACLU in general believe that speech should be fought with speech, but what speech is there to fight when dealing with nazis? "I think non-aryans are inhuman savages for whom high-powered ovens is too good a fate" "I disagree people are people" "LOL YOU'LL GET YOURS RACE TRAITOR" There is no dialogue to be had with these people. Like I do sympathize what people are talking about, but Nazi rallies are there because they want a fight. What, you think they honestly believe that they'll convince anyone to become a national socialist by waving a swastika flag and Heil Hitlering? gently caress no. The violence is what they do to ensure they always have enemies to fight, because otherwise this leads to introspection and realizing "...I am a total gently caress up my god" and they can't have that (see this for more: http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/fbi/7stage_hate_model.htm). The only way to achieve that state is to leave them alone and make them run out of targets. And that's impossible in our day and age. So I do not have a bleeding heart for people choosing to fight fire with fire. Even when it's not the right way of dealing with this problem, this is the only recourse for some people.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:54
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