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How will you be voting in the UKEU Referendum? This poll is closed. |
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| Remain - Keep Britane Strong! |
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328 | 15.40% |
| Leave - Take Are Sovreignity Back! |
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115 | 5.40% |
| Remain - But only because Brexit are crazy |
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506 | 23.76% |
| Leave - But only because the EU is terrible |
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157 | 7.37% |
| Spoiled Ballot - This whole thing is an awful idea |
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61 | 2.86% |
| I'm not going to vote |
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19 | 0.89% |
| I'm not allowed to vote |
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411 | 19.30% |
| Pissflaps |
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533 | 25.02% |
| Total: | 2130 votes | ||
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According to the Oxford dictionary Tory comes from the Irish Toraidhe for ”pursued” as in an outlaw or highwayman on the run. It was also what they called English settlers who stole land in Ireland. James 2nd's supporters were called Tory as they were considered thieves, stealing from the nation by supporting his claim. Very appropriate for today's blue and red Tories.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:15
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SpaceDrake posted:All right, fair enough, thanks guys. I mostly got tripped up by seeing a lot of the fuss about whoever will succeed Cameron not "being elected by the people", but I guess the point is that after a resignation of this sort, it's just expected that the whole party leadership really should go up for a vote of some sort, and that a crisis like this probably warrants a snap GE. Actually it's honestly a good question because strictly, Britain shouldn't have anything like a president. We're supposed to form majorities in parliament and elect senior advisors to the Crown as representatives of those majorities (cabinet ministers) and run a government based on agreement in parliament, theoretically on an issue by issue basis. What's been steadily happening over the years is that we've been migrating towards a de-facto presidency, where the leader of each party is the sole face of that party and represents everything about them, and it's very important for them to be "strong" because we wouldn't want a weak leader of the country, never mind that our entire governmental system is supposed to run without one single leader because the actual legal leader of the country sits in Buckingham Palace. The loss of a PM shouldn't, really, be a major problem for the UK government because they should just pick another one, you don't elect the prime minister or any of the senior cabinet, you elect your local MP and the rest is sorted out among the parliament of MPs. But because we've moved towards a rather presidential view of politics, the PM is seen to need direct legitimacy from the general electorate and the success or failure of 'their' policies is assumed to reflect on their legitimacy as PM. This is also visible in Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of the Labour party because in theory, he's been very keen to have a democratically decided agenda, he puts his policy above others because he has a democratic mandate from the membership, but he expressed a desire for a coalition of MPs to form his cabinet at the start. Of course, the Blair faction (a man famous for being extremely autocratic in his leadership of the labour party) view this as a sign of weakness and take every opportunity to undermine him as leader. I'm hoping that for the time being he will put the smackdown on them and get the party elected but really, his initial way of doing things would be better if the party wasn't full of blairite twats. So the UK doesn't have a president, except in many ways it does. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 08:16
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SpaceDrake posted:... Nixon was found to be The Greatest Dipshit, may have hosed a pig, jury's out on that one... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratfucking
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Jun 27, 2016 08:19
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SpaceDrake posted:
Don't be hard on yourself; neither did us Brits. It's why we are in this mess right now.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:22
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Tigey posted:Well, lets see: Well, at least the Maoists will be in charge in 50 years.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:25
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So how on fire is the stock exchange at the moment?
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Jun 27, 2016 08:26
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Senor Tron posted:...t historically the PM wasn't meant to be as powerful as the role is now. IIRC in the late 19th century there were even commentators talking about how the idea of one person representing the government in that way way undemocratic.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:28
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It's actually doing OK.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:29
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OwlFancier posted:So the UK doesn't have a president, except in many ways it does. This is a great post. There are a lot of parliamentary systems around the world, and most of them operate on the government/parliamentary confidence/prime minister principle, but the UK is kind of diverging, perhaps because of its tendency towards a two-party system. Germany also has a parliamentary system in principle, but the elections gravitate around the Chancellor/potential Chancellor (who is the equivalent of the Prime Minister in the UK), and wouldn't you know, there are two major parties as well. Countries where coalition governments between roughly equal parties are ordinary (because they have proportional representation) seem to avoid this, although if they have an elected figure-head president then the voters may channel this "one leader" thing at the presidential election even though the president doesn't actually have much power!
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Jun 27, 2016 08:29
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FTSE 250 is pretty much back to the lowest point it hit immediately after the referendum.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:29
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nobodyssweetheart posted:In some documentary I half-remember, they said "Prime Minister" as a title was meant to be sarcastic. With 18th century air quotes around it because the idea was so ludicrous that a mere minister would head the government. This is correct as far as I know, as above the proper title is First Lord of the Treasury which is what it says on the door of number 10.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:29
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OwlFancier posted:So how on fire is the stock exchange at the moment? Not much so far, TBH. https://www.google.ca/finance?cid=12590587
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Jun 27, 2016 08:32
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New-look all-Corbynite Shadow Cabinet: Shadow Foreign Secretary - Emily Thornberry Shadow Health Secretary – Diane Abbott Shadow Education Secretary – Pat Glass Shadow Transport Secretary – Andy McDonald Shadow Defence Secretary – Clive Lewis Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury – Rebecca Long-Bailey Shadow International Development Secretary – Kate Osamor Shadow Environment Food and Rural Affairs Secretary – Rachel Maskell Shadow Voter Engagement and Youth Affairs – Cat Smith Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary – Dave Anderson A cabinet I could vote for without qualms tbh
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Jun 27, 2016 08:35
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Isn't Andy MP for Middlesbrough? E: HA! Yes he is! Not my MP so I'm not sure how good he is but nice to have a local lad in cabinet. E: Though this is a nice touch: http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2015-16/830/ OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 08:36
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Antti posted:This is a great post. There are a lot of parliamentary systems around the world, and most of them operate on the government/parliamentary confidence/prime minister principle, but the UK is kind of diverging, perhaps because of its tendency towards a two-party system. Germany also has a parliamentary system in principle, but the elections gravitate around the Chancellor/potential Chancellor (who is the equivalent of the Prime Minister in the UK), and wouldn't you know, there are two major parties as well. I'd say a part of it is that most of them had a period in time, be that political collapse or independence or the like, where they sat down and figured things out and laid out "right this is how it works". We haven't done anything like that in a drat long time, the result being that (as far as I know, I could be wrong on a few parts) the most powerful position in our government today accidentally came into de facto existence and accidentally ended up being the most powerful post with no legal basis for its power existing as it does mostly on a series of precedents and gentleman's agreements instead of any document we can refer to for "right this is how it works".
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Jun 27, 2016 08:38
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OvineYeast posted:New-look all-Corbynite Shadow Cabinet: Is this real or your picks?
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Jun 27, 2016 08:38
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Baron Corbyn posted:Is this real or your picks? It's on the guardian politics liveblog
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Jun 27, 2016 08:39
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Baron Corbyn posted:Is this real or your picks? Andy is listed as such on palriament's website so i think it's real. http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/andy-mcdonald/4269
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Jun 27, 2016 08:39
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There's a line going around that because of the drop in the value of sterling, everything is so undervalued that a lot of things are being bought and therefore it is acting as a balance to a mass sell off. Who knows about if that's actually true or how long it's going to hold.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:40
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Emily is my MP and has generally been good and cool, social media handling notwithstanding
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Jun 27, 2016 08:41
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OvineYeast posted:It's on the guardian politics liveblog Cool, seems like Corbyn has gone with loyalists. Makes sense as Hodges was claiming that some MPs were willing to take jobs in the shadow cabinet and immediately resign. There aren't any threats in there. Pat Glass was the MP who got caught calling someone a "horrible racist" during the referendum campaign by the way.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:42
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kecske posted:Emily is my MP and has generally been good and cool, social media handling notwithstanding I was in SOAS halls in her constituency and met her a few times. She bought me a drink. Was very glad to vote for her when she was one of the few MPs to show a swing to Labour in 2010. e: also her social media handling seems prescient now tbh OvineYeast fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 08:43
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I made a thing to save us all some time and posted it to the labour facebook page, where it'll be ignored I take suggestions to expand the quote db.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:44
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You need the animation to stop on the final frame and not loop. Edit: Oh wait, the animation is just something you made to demonstrate it. If you could get the spins to generate an animated GIF for embedding then that would be sweet.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:47
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Pissflaps posted:It's actually doing OK. This is not true. After you factor in fx drop, the FTSE is down essentially 3.5%.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:48
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qhat posted:This is not true. After you factor in fx drop, the FTSE is down essentially 3.5%. Aha, I wondered why FTSE was doing better than the international markets. Makes sense now.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:50
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OvineYeast posted:New-look all-Corbynite Shadow Cabinet:  Stick in Corbyn, this cabinet is looking pretty loving sexy. Good to see Cat Smith in there, she's been great.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:51
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So I guess he just chucked the idea of a compromise cabinet out the window then?
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Jun 27, 2016 08:51
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OwlFancier posted:So I guess he just chucked the idea of a compromise cabinet out the window then? thing about a compromise cabinet is they also have to compromise with you
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Jun 27, 2016 08:52
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Antti posted:This is a great post. There are a lot of parliamentary systems around the world, and most of them operate on the government/parliamentary confidence/prime minister principle, but the UK is kind of diverging, perhaps because of its tendency towards a two-party system. Germany also has a parliamentary system in principle, but the elections gravitate around the Chancellor/potential Chancellor (who is the equivalent of the Prime Minister in the UK), and wouldn't you know, there are two major parties as well. Not anymore we don't because both the centre left party and the centre right party have repratedly shot themselves in the foot while chasing the centre (the centre left is bleeding out slightly faster).
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Jun 27, 2016 08:52
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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He's not the one that chucked it out the window.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:52
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I'm not complaining, just curious, I don't know much about most of those MPs.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:53
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 Sun's going full fash.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:56
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not complaining, just curious, I don't know much about most of those MPs. You should! They're all great MPs, but mostly 2015 intake. I'm sure this will be an interesting experience for them...
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Jun 27, 2016 08:56
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Jess Phillips just resigned from a job she didn't have.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:57
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NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:Jess Phillips just resigned from a job she didn't have. Hahaha what?
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Jun 27, 2016 08:58
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Oberleutnant posted:
Haha, 'won'
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Jun 27, 2016 08:58
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OvineYeast posted:Aha, I wondered why FTSE was doing better than the international markets. Makes sense now. http://markets.ft.com/research/Markets/Tearsheets/Summary?s=UKXUSD%2B:FSI Useful chart if you want to know how FTSE's really doing - was down 10% on Friday in real(-ish) terms, is still falling.
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Jun 27, 2016 08:59
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Oberleutnant posted:
Could union jacks not fly high before? Was there some sort of EU force field that stopped them being put up?
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Jun 27, 2016 08:59
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Kaislioc posted:I'd say a part of it is that most of them had a period in time, be that political collapse or independence or the like, where they sat down and figured things out and laid out "right this is how it works". We haven't done anything like that in a drat long time, the result being that (as far as I know, I could be wrong on a few parts) the most powerful position in our government today accidentally came into de facto existence and accidentally ended up being the most powerful post with no legal basis for its power existing as it does mostly on a series of precedents and gentleman's agreements instead of any document we can refer to for "right this is how it works". You're right, the UK system is based on precedent and tradition instead of anything concrete because the UK hasn't had that kind of moment of reckoning you describe. There aren't a lot of countries that still operate like that, definitely not any western democracies I can think of. There's a body of law like the Reform Acts to fix the electoral system, and the monarch's power has been diluted over time, sometimes by seismic events like the Civil War and the Glorious Revolution. Edit: by the by this whole Shadow Cabinet thing is also pretty singular to the UK, it's funny how it keeps unravelling with people bleeding out while Corbyn stuffs new people back in Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 08:59
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