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Stanley Pain posted:Orkz with Zzaps really tear apart SM. Borderline OP vs them. Honestly a lot of things are currently borderline or actually OP against space marines. Their weaknesses are pretty glaring.
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Jun 24, 2016 04:49
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Oh man, confirming Chaos lance spam is brutal against SM. My Ork buddy and I were doing 2v2s and the Zzap / lances brought the pain, every team was at least half SM and they were all functionally useless.
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Jun 24, 2016 05:44
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Potential BFF posted:Oh man, confirming Chaos lance spam is brutal against SM. My Ork buddy and I were doing 2v2s and the Zzap / lances brought the pain, every team was at least half SM and they were all functionally useless. Yeah we loving slaughtered them. The zzap changes are really nice.
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Jun 24, 2016 06:31
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Korgan posted:Yeah we loving slaughtered them. The zzap changes are really nice. People think you died in the meme thread.
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Jun 24, 2016 06:34
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He did but was resurrected in the sto thread.
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Jun 24, 2016 06:48
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Potential BFF posted:Oh man, confirming Chaos lance spam is brutal against SM. My Ork buddy and I were doing 2v2s and the Zzap / lances brought the pain, every team was at least half SM and they were all functionally useless. Korgan posted:Yeah we loving slaughtered them. The zzap changes are really nice. Thirding. Jesus what a difference in one day. Marines are whining fairly bad. Orkz actually got called overpowered. Orks. I still move like an Ork and slow but since now I can generally bring an extra fast cruiser I can compete with Eldar and the rest. For fun faced one really whiny space marine who went afk as my partner and then later I used my two traktors (he irritated me) to make his three ships ram into each other and then added myself in the ramming. My ship went kaboom gloriously. Feels fluffy as hell to have more piles of gubbinz flying about. Fire is still the bane of my existence but yeah... Orks feel competitive. Though Battle Barges are proper hosed as the price means they will be outnumbered and I will ram them to death. They really should lower the price on Battle Barges even if just a little. Still think Homing Torps are a little too cheesy but Chaos just laughs at them. A bay of one fighta-bombas seems to do decently against torp and drop pod spam so having one bay isn't a complete waste... plus Marines have to waste a skill for fighter screen so you can assault boat and bomba them at your leisure. Zzaps are freakin amazing now. Chaos lances melt spess mahreens so quickly it would be sad if they didn't cheese homing torps so bloody much. I will also say that it doesn't seem like Eldar are quite as annoying as they used to be. Still effective and still deadly hit and run... just not as worrisome. Might have something to do with me being able to buy an extra fast cruiser along for the ride.
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Jun 24, 2016 08:55
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Thanqol posted:Well heck, might get back into Orks after that. ehhhhhhhh i dunno cheaper ships certainly help, and upgraded zzaps are unequivocally good, but orks still have a LOT of problems. they still lose long range to chaos sniper or carrier fleets even with the zzap changes, and orks aren't very good at brawling anymore. IN, chaos brawlers and even SM can outfight orks at close range now that orks don't have AP eavy kannons, and the zzap upgrades help against eldar but it's a matter of getting a lucky hit or seven. a zzap/torpedo wall fleet is kind of the only effective fleet composition they have now, and the carrier component is only there to slow down getting eaten alive by homing torpedoes and strike craft. offensively ork carriers are awful since tindalos thinks that bombas shooting at torpedoes is justification for bombas doing a fuckin third of the damage everyone else does, and assault boats aren't worth the gap in fighter coverage against SM or carrier chaos. the devs have posted a thread in the official ork forum about unfucking orks, but until whatever thta is materializes it's torpedoes and zzaps and that's it
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Jun 24, 2016 18:04
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Even before changes, I just yolo charged chaos carrier fleets with orks and rammed them so almost all the changes have been pretty positive for me. The only one that hurts is the fire change but since orks have great troop value they don't have as many fires as you could get running something like Imperials. Hell, my space marines are almost always on fire and they have half the health. The factions getting their AP cannons nerfed also helps orks a little now that it's happened, you normally want to be front facing as orks anyway.
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Jun 24, 2016 18:40
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Weremacht posted:ehhhhhhhh i dunno Oh they do need work. Makes victories all the sweeter but it would be nice to have just a lil more. I'd settle for Goff favour bringing back the +10 troops. Yukitsu posted:Even before changes, I just yolo charged chaos carrier fleets with orks and rammed them so almost all the changes have been pretty positive for me. The only one that hurts is the fire change but since orks have great troop value they don't have as many fires as you could get running something like Imperials. Hell, my space marines are almost always on fire and they have half the health. The factions getting their AP cannons nerfed also helps orks a little now that it's happened, you normally want to be front facing as orks anyway. You were the guy that inspired my carrier battleship "Can Fulla' Gitz". Its been a blast so thank you. Good advice btw. Ork Taktix Stuff: (warning lots spergy words that hopefully help any new orkz out dere) Torps are almost a given. You can scare people out of their path and force em where you want OR you can use them to soften up a target and ram or jam them up the arse of some bastard just slightly out of your reach. Zzaps were always fun and now they are really useful so yay. Fighta-bombas? Yeah they don't compare to eldar or chaos fighters but they still make an okay screen and if you happen to land some bombas on a bloke then caketime! Front armour and ramming are your main weapon. Eavy Kannons and Guns are ok (arguably) now but consider them just a lil additional to the ramming, zzaps, boarding actions and torps. You got good troop value so set that boarding action. You're going to get stuck in anyway so, after you ram them, do a boarding and watch their health drop. Best thing about Orkz tho? Favours. Blood axe brings a less reliable nova kannon and sneaky but now that you can possibly bring an extra fast cruiser bring one along. Nova Kannon scares the crap out of Eldar. Even if fired once they act skittish until that ship dies so just manoeuvre like you still have it and watch the panzee leg it. Evil Sunz Traktor Beam really is awesome. Push people away or into minefields/friends, pull them into your ramming or into their allies or just do it to freak them out AND people WILL freak out when you do it. On top of that your big red button fills up faster. Bring at least one. Two if you can. Don't do three as that is just being ridiculous. Four is right out. You get the idea. Goff is bad and don't do it. Extra ramming damage is ok but there are far better favours. Maybe if they add the troop value back in. Bad Moon brings an extra upgrade and Shokk Attak Kannon. It tellyports gitz from far away. I've seen it do nothing and I've seen it devastate. The extra ship upgrade is sweet. What I've been running that's doing well is one krooza and two fast kroozers. I can also do battlecruiser and a cruiser with maybe one escort. I have at least one zzap (not including the upgrade one) and one flight deck on anything above fast cruiser. All ships have torps. Fighter screen helps against torps and assault boats and zzaps against eldar. If eldar I try and bring one nova kannon (never more) as it really throws them off psychologically. You are slow and turn terribly so get stuck in fast and keep the bastards there. They will be confident at first so most don't know they could just stay away and kite all day and win. Get in close and keep them there. Don't autocast bombs. Use bombs and other templates to drive the prey where you want it and don't autocast them. Save them for when they are useful. Eldar tend to dart and are nasty if they catch your side or rear so grot on a rock em. Watch them and try and keep facing them or keep an enemy ship between you and their pulsar. If they come within range, target their engines and do a lightning strike. Also keep your nova kannon cruiser pointing toward them. Most will run and avoid and the clever ones will try and stay in that sweet spot before/around the edge nova range. Use that if you can. I do. Also headbuttin is a natural to an Ork as breathing. Maybe more. Ram. When there is a whole buncha enemies? Ram. When there is only a few enemies? Ram. When enemies come near? Ram. When they try and run away? Traktor and ram. Don't know what to do? Ram. Wot if theyz far away? Speed up and Ram. A male sheep or goat? Ram. Orks are a challenge but drat rewarding. People often underestimate Orkz. Use that and yer kunnin' to stick em with da pointy end. You will lose. Alot. But the whole point of Orkz is to get in Da Fight. Win or lose - don't matter. If you fightin, you winnin! If you do lose then you run away to fight annuver day. Go with Gork and Mork my green brothers. DogsInSpace! fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 00:55
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Picked this up on the steam sale, having fun in single player so far, but I'm very bad and I think I need some advice. First off, Imperial ships. I've mainly been using Dauntless mk2 with microwarpjump, the range upgrade for macro cannons and AP ammo. The torps are cool when you hit but I'm pretty bad with them and they're pretty micro intensive. I haven't been putting them on autocast because I'm afraid of hitting my own ships. Should I be using them mainly as an area denial tool rather than trying to do burst damage with them? Is the lance Dauntless any good? I'm having trouble keeping the nose pointed at people though, mainly I just get bumrushed by the AI and get into silly brawls. Then there's the cruisers. I've only really used the Dominator, which is pretty cool and all, but there's four other options that are pretty confusing. I hear the Gothic with all them lances is good against Orks - are any of the others worth using? I guess I should try to stay at some distance from the Orks and not brawl with them? In, say, a 300 point game, is it better to take a cruiser and a light cruiser, or two light cruisers and a few escorts? The Cobras are super cool when you manage to torp people with them, but they die so fast and are so micro intensive.
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Jun 26, 2016 09:26
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TheFluff posted:Picked this up on the steam sale, having fun in single player so far, but I'm very bad and I think I need some advice. Ram always. Ram ram ram. Ram everything. Use the brace for impact order and then ram. Imperial ships are shaped like swords, because they are swords, and you should put the pointy end into the bad mans. Escorts explode if you so much as clip them with your ship. Ramming only applies damage on the first impact, so if you ram a ship and your afterburners keep going you'll push that ship around but won't damage it more. You can, however, ram, full stop, and then boost for a second ram - the 'jackhammer technique'. Ram. If necessary, shout RAMMING SPEED to get you in the mood. quote:First off, Imperial ships. I've mainly been using Dauntless mk2 with microwarpjump, the range upgrade for macro cannons and AP ammo. The torps are cool when you hit but I'm pretty bad with them and they're pretty micro intensive. I haven't been putting them on autocast because I'm afraid of hitting my own ships. Should I be using them mainly as an area denial tool rather than trying to do burst damage with them? Is the lance Dauntless any good? I'm having trouble keeping the nose pointed at people though, mainly I just get bumrushed by the AI and get into silly brawls. The Lance Dauntless is great. I generally use my Dauntlessessess... Dauntlii... as Terminator Delivery Missiles; Marine Favour, extra teleporter, imperial assassin and everything else into shields. Torpedoes are only good against some factions and I find them too micro intensive to bother much with. Sometimes you get a perfect spread off and it's glorious but just as often you'll do nothing or hit your own ships or whatever. Torpedoes are there to force the other guy to engage you, which is only useful in some multiplayer matches, or if you're orks or marines boarding torps are actually sorta good. However, torpedo autocast is great because the AI is much better at instantly calculating angles, speeds and trajectories than your meat brain is. MWJ is not fantastic with Dauntlii, I think supercharged void shields might be a better choice given how fragile LCs are. quote:Then there's the cruisers. I've only really used the Dominator, which is pretty cool and all, but there's four other options that are pretty confusing. I hear the Gothic with all them lances is good against Orks - are any of the others worth using? I guess I should try to stay at some distance from the Orks and not brawl with them? Dominator is the only one I consistently use but it's been a while. How to fight orks is maneuver. Load up a game as orks and fly some of their ships around to see why. They all handle like drunken bathtubs and have 75 front armour and 25 rear armour. Orks want to ram you. They want to put their big dumb faces into your face. Do not let them, but at the same time make sure you're focusing your fire as much as possible. Your job is, as much as possible, to focus on moving and angling your boats. Let the guns and abilities take care of themselves for the most part. quote:In, say, a 300 point game, is it better to take a cruiser and a light cruiser, or two light cruisers and a few escorts? The Cobras are super cool when you manage to torp people with them, but they die so fast and are so micro intensive. I don't think escorts are good for much other than scouting, in which case you want the widowmaker. Also: Remember to click on enemy ships to set targeting priorities. Thanqol fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 09:54
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TheFluff posted:Picked this up on the steam sale, having fun in single player so far, but I'm very bad and I think I need some advice. The Dauntless is fast and maneuverable enough that its torps are usually best used for shotgunning people in the face with them from short range. The lance Dauntless is also very good, that heavy lance is deceptively powerful. It's almost as powerful as a Gothic's full lance broadside. It's true that getting a good shot with them is a bit difficult, but keep in mind that ships can fire at several targets at once. So it's usually quite doable to fire your lance at the primary target while the broadside(s) shoot at whatever targets of opportunity, or vice versa. quote:Then there's the cruisers. I've only really used the Dominator, which is pretty cool and all, but there's four other options that are pretty confusing. I hear the Gothic with all them lances is good against Orks - are any of the others worth using? I guess I should try to stay at some distance from the Orks and not brawl with them? A short overview of the imperial cruisers: Dominator: Pure brawling gunboat. Has great damage potential up close, but loses some effectiveness at the edge of its range due to the cannons' middling accuracy. The frontal nova cannon is great against Eldar in particular. Gothic: Basically the opposite of the Dominator, mounting a full lance battery. Since lances always hit no matter the distance it is a great fire support ship, particularly with the extended range upgrade. Being able to stay away and ignore armour does indeed make it a good pick against Orks. Lunar: A middle-ground between the Dominator and Gothic, mounting half gun batteries and half lances. A good generalist that performs well in any situation, but it has the downside that weapon upgrades are rather inefficient for it, since each upgrade only affects half its armament. It can make for a nice tank if you skill it for survivability instead, though. Tyrant: Basically a Dominator that sacrifices a bit of raw firepower for a bit more range, and more importantly exchanges the nova cannon for torpedoes. Potentially a better brawler than the Dominator, provided you can reliably hit with the torpedoes. And yes, Orks will generally perform better than imperials at very close range. Try to keep them a good distance away and make sure not to fly in front of them at close range where they can ram you. Also keep in mind that their side and rear armour is weaker than their front, so try to shoot them up the butt if you can arrange it.
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Jun 26, 2016 10:10
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Since Lunar cruisers don't benefit as much from weapon upgrades as other classes, they should get power rams instead 
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Jun 26, 2016 10:25
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how to battlegothic: punch their botes with your botes, win
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Jun 26, 2016 14:54
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Perestroika posted:The Dauntless is fast and maneuverable enough that its torps are usually best used for shotgunning people in the face with them from short range. The lance Dauntless is also very good, that heavy lance is deceptively powerful. It's almost as powerful as a Gothic's full lance broadside. It's true that getting a good shot with them is a bit difficult, but keep in mind that ships can fire at several targets at once. So it's usually quite doable to fire your lance at the primary target while the broadside(s) shoot at whatever targets of opportunity, or vice versa. Great info. Here's some more for an Imperial newbie. Gothic is great versus Orkz and Space Marines. Will melt either. Lunar is ok but really the split macros and lances mean the whole "master of none" is very accurate. Get a Gothic and make its lances super and the ship tanky. Have a Gothic and bring it out when you need. Tyrant is good all around and effective BUT find which Cruiser works for you. Personally, I would rather have a Dominator but I suggest trying them in single player and find which suits you. The Nova cannon is beastly in multiplayer. Any criticisms that could be lobbed against it are outweighed by the psychological factor. Every enemy of the Imperium knows and dreads the Nova Cannon. A good percentage of the time you have won the battle,simply by bringing one. The enemy will spend a decent amount of time worrying about the Nova which makes them forget that front armour and macros. Fast Cruisers: Lance is beautiful against the same races I mentioned earlier and requires little micromanagement. Don't discount torpedoes as they can absolutely change the game. Auto targeting is nice but, after some practice, I never put them on auto. I can use them to herd people where I want them or brutalise an opponent. I play Orkz all the time and hate when people start fires on my ships with melta torps. Frigates: Widowmaker is a scanner ship with torps. Detection is double normal frigates and perfect for spotting Eldar and Chaos. Firestorm has a lance that will help against Marines or Orkz. Cobra has a macro turret and torps. Cobras are also what you get for free with the Imperial Navy favour. Also when you upgrade any escorts the upgrades apply to any escorts that are in the mission. At any point (like from IN favour). Favours: http://www.bfgawiki.com/wiki/Favours I dig Imperial Navy. I never see other IN in multi. I don't go insubordinate and I get to summon a free Cobra every 180 seconds. 6k light macro turret , torpedoes, 225 speed and 5k detection are average but it is free. Upgrade its macro range, give it voss pattern shields and upgraded sensors and face it front at 6 or 9k range with autocast torps. Send it in from the sides and turn on autocombat to spot and toss out the occasional torpedo while you do your thing. 6 or 9k should be enough room so it doesnt get rammed and gets ignored by the enemy. It will still do damage. Slowly and bit by bit. Its not dramatic and flashy but it wins. Also it keeps summoning every 180 seconds if you put it on autocast. 2 extra frigates become 4 and later on 6 and so forth. All you have to do is keep the main ship alive. Had battles won versus high cheese eldar and chaos solely because they didn't kill me quickly enough. Escorts don't last long in a straight up fight brawl but they can be a game changer. Voss pattern shields give it more survivability than one would expect. Other favours are good but I dig Imperial Navy. Plus blue ships are purty.
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Jun 27, 2016 02:00
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IN are great, just lol if you don't go full torpedoes with AdMech favor. Seriously though, it's neat that IN seems so well internally balanced. I love my Tyrants but it's hard to go wrong with cruiser picks. edit: Whomever said Chaos are great against Space Marines was very very right.  Sorry about your Battle Barges, nerd. 
Soulfucker fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 02:06
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Wait is SM's just weak against pulsars or have eldar yet to be balanced? Had time so i started the game decided to check out SM's and watched as a single eldar LC used his pulsar and made my LC go from 100% to 25% before i could manually hit shield transfer. Is the game still entirely balanced around 1 or 2 tactics that let you survive against eldar pulsar ships?
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Jun 27, 2016 09:11
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Arghy posted:Wait is SM's just weak against pulsars or have eldar yet to be balanced? Had time so i started the game decided to check out SM's and watched as a single eldar LC used his pulsar and made my LC go from 100% to 25% before i could manually hit shield transfer. SM ships have 200 less health than normal (except the battle barge) and instead relying on heavy armor to be durable. Unfortunately, 75 armor is useless against pulsar. Pulsar is already nerfed 3 patches ago when they cut pulsar damage by half, got rid of the range upgrade but reduced cool down for a bit to compensate.
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Jun 27, 2016 09:19
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You really wanna hit that Brace for Impact before you get Pulsared. You get extra non-piercable armor - and if you've got a chapter master on the field, even more armor on top.
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Jun 27, 2016 13:33
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Arghy posted:Wait is SM's just weak against pulsars or have eldar yet to be balanced? Had time so i started the game decided to check out SM's and watched as a single eldar LC used his pulsar and made my LC go from 100% to 25% before i could manually hit shield transfer. Space marines are entirely weak against everything that ignores armour which is to say almost every weapon in the game.
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Jun 27, 2016 21:21
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they also have Hellbringer Syndrome where their smaller ships are complete loving garbage
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Jun 27, 2016 21:35
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Forums Terrorist posted:they also have Hellbringer Syndrome where their smaller ships are complete loving garbage Is that a thing? Hellbringers are something I take like, 2 of in 700 points games because they're ridiculously over powered.
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Jun 27, 2016 21:44
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oh i only play 2 v 2, where you have 300 points each and therefore mostly only get to bring 2, 3 ships tops. This means you almost always want to bring cruisers or larger, because unless you're doing something dumb and hilarious like 9 onslaughts you want to bring as much gun as you can fit in 300-350 tops. in that regard hellbringers are poo poo because you'd only get 2, when you could bring 2 slaughters, or upgrade one to a styx.
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Jun 27, 2016 21:51
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i don't count escorts because with the exception of the widowmaker and the ork non-ravager ones they're all basically chaff
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Jun 27, 2016 21:52
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gently caress I hate this loving stupid loving progression system. gently caress. Just give me all my ships, and unlocks and poo poo so I can shoot botes in the dick.
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Jun 27, 2016 21:54
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I love the dynamic of SM's but that poo poo looks complicated as hell to balance and the gently caress ton of lance weapons kinda makes it pointless. I love the bombard cannons though but i can totally see SM's getting owned so hard in so many scenarios.
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Jun 28, 2016 06:40
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The problem with SM is not so much the vulnerability to lances but the fact that you are only ever one weapon crit away from being almost totally defanged.
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Jun 28, 2016 08:27
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It's almost like the SMs aren't actually a real navy and are going to struggle against the big boys..
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Jun 28, 2016 10:04
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Nickiepoo posted:It's almost like the SMs aren't actually a real navy and are going to struggle against the big boys.. They are pretty great with a IN ally who can shadow the enemy fleet with a widowmaker early in the game. Rain boarding torpedoes on their fleet all game!
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Jun 28, 2016 14:01
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How is the multiplayer for this game holding up. Played a lot during the beta but matchmaker can't find anyone now. Or am I just gently caress because of my level 1 admiral.
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Jun 28, 2016 23:43
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wrong way posted:How is the multiplayer for this game holding up. Played a lot during the beta but matchmaker can't find anyone now. Or am I just gently caress because of my level 1 admiral. There really isn't an MM. I get games within 15 seconds.
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Jun 29, 2016 00:25
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Space Marines: Anyone formed any strong opinions on how the favors should be deployed, IE: Forge should always be on one of the Barges, and Librarian's should be on the smaller faster ships for assgrabbing, etc. As usual I'm about to start my second fleet and build it differently with what I've learned, but since the favors are limited....
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Jun 29, 2016 01:41
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Derakarsis posted:Space Marines: It depends a bit on how you want your ships to actually function and what style you're going for, but I like cruisers with the support abilities, chapter master and librarian and the other two on my battle barges as they should be slogging in the fight.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:21
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Yukitsu posted:It depends a bit on how you want your ships to actually function and what style you're going for, but I like cruisers with the support abilities, chapter master and librarian and the other two on my battle barges as they should be slogging in the fight. It's a shame because I agree with you, which means I won't have a chance to see how ludicrous the Force Commander Barge model is.
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Jun 29, 2016 03:11
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Derakarsis posted:It's a shame because I agree with you, which means I won't have a chance to see how ludicrous the Force Commander Barge model is. It can be pretty effective as another alternative if you go full ham on boarding actions. Since it gets like, 5 of them with the bonuses you could do some major damage on the toggle. I think it's a little less effective unless you're running 2 barges in which case the commander bonus is good, but not as ludicrous as just having overpowered boarding actions. The only problem is no one is going to let that ship near enough to board them.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:10
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I've managed to fully incap a ship on one boarding pass with commander + barge. Either all weapons destroyed or all subsystems gone. It's pretty hilarious when it happens (just not when it happens to you).
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Jun 29, 2016 13:14
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This just in: Zzap guns are completely bonkers now and I'll eat my shoe if they don't get toned down next patch.
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Jun 29, 2016 23:33
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Soulfucker posted:This just in: Zzap guns are completely bonkers now and I'll eat my shoe if they don't get toned down next patch. 
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Jun 29, 2016 23:59
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Most marines are easy to beat as imperials but I'm on the verge of ragequitting when I see Orks now because it's almost always zzaps (plus tractor beams, plus stasis bombs, plus nova cannons) and they just instagib me. I'm not even joking, the ork parks at 15k and some pretty drat tanky battlecruisers just kinda disappear before I'm even at 6k. I find that vs marines the Emperor is a really, really good pick. Bringing that and a bunch of torp boats is usually a pretty easy win. I think the only marine I lost to recently was a legitimately good player who played vision games, kited the poo poo out of me and fooled me into chasing his barge while his smaller ships worked me over.
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Jun 30, 2016 00:46
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TheFluff posted:Most marines are easy to beat as imperials but I'm on the verge of ragequitting when I see Orks now because it's almost always zzaps (plus tractor beams, plus stasis bombs, plus nova cannons) and they just instagib me. I'm not even joking, the ork parks at 15k and some pretty drat tanky battlecruisers just kinda disappear before I'm even at 6k. Orks don't have any other option, really. They're too fragile now to slug it out in close quarters with Imperials, who both ram better and have AP macros. The zzap changes are good but they're too far in one direction, especially with the nerf to Ork close quarters. I'd say Orks need AP back definitely, and kannons need a rebalance so they're consistent high damage rather than one or two shots can do some damage or straight up take a third off your health total. Also while I'm wishing I'd like fighta-bommas to not suck and hangars stop being so loving expensive.
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Jun 30, 2016 01:50
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