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Rutibex posted:I understand how intellectual property works, that's why I dislike it. I am arguing for how things ought to be, not how they work presently. I really don't think you do since you think it leads to "intellectual monopolies" and don't understand the distinction that the Dominion chip guy's exact design was used without either credit or fair compensation for his work. Maybe you're argument is more nuanced than I'm seeing and you just think that the system for compensation should be different, which I don't disagree with. But the current situation is that Sirlin did not compensate the original artist in any way for his work.
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Jun 28, 2016 15:20
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I don't think I'm going to get any converts.
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Rutibex posted:I understand how intellectual property works, that's why I dislike it. I am arguing for how things ought to be, not how they work presently. You want people to be able to freely take things in the name of progress. I'm arguing that you can do that you just have to be clever about it. If you're going to rip someone off then put in your time and effort like they probably did. Plagiarists and art thieves, the people who think a photoshop filter is a hard day's work, can jump off a loving bridge.
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Jun 28, 2016 15:43
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I've seen the Forbidden Stars set up at a small boardgame convention this weekend. The plastic units and structures look gorgeous, very well made. Plenty of cards as well, but drat is it an expensive boardgame.
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Jun 28, 2016 15:57
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nimby posted:I've seen the Forbidden Stars set up at a small boardgame convention this weekend. The plastic units and structures look gorgeous, very well made. Plenty of cards as well, but drat is it an expensive boardgame. Have you never seen a Fantasy Flight game before? They're the company that specializes in putting out $100 cinder blocks filled with cards, dice, and plastic.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:05
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Selecta84 posted:So how good is Ora et Labora? I really enjoy Ora et Labora for the reasons mentioned. At first I really liked LeHavre, but after some plays, I realized it was basically two forks of one strategy plus how well you could fiddle around with the Loan strategy. Boring to me, I don't want to race to be the first one to implement the shipping strategy. And the loan strategy is scripted and also boring.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:06
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taser rates posted:Words. Thanks for that. I'll have to wait for FS to go on sale before I can pick it up probably, but I'd probably enjoy. Even if the Warhammer theme isn't that hot.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:09
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Lorini posted:I really enjoy Ora et Labora for the reasons mentioned. At first I really liked LeHavre, but after some plays, I realized it was basically two forks of one strategy plus how well you could fiddle around with the Loan strategy. Boring to me, I don't want to race to be the first one to implement the shipping strategy. And the loan strategy is scripted and also boring. Thanks. More things to consider before my purchase...
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Jun 28, 2016 16:18
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quote:Meh, I'll drop it. I don't think I'm going to get any converts. I don't think you're crazy here - and over time I think the economic structure around creative works is going to have to change, but it is a little off-topic here. And you didn't read my post very well; I specifically made the point that I was NOT complaining about Sirlin robbing Magic. I think what he did there was fine and essentially unavoidable (just like it's going to be hard to not have some Dominion mechanics in a deckbuilder, if only because he's explored so much of the space). I only mentioned it because someone asking about what sources Codex had borrowed from.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:20
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Forbidden Stars can be found for $60 pretty frequently, which puts it in the standard range for most games ($40-60). I've played it twice and really like it, but haven't bought it because I don't think I can get it played that often. Not sure if I like the warp storm mechanic though.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:23
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How well does FS play with only 2?
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Jun 28, 2016 16:46
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Fat Samurai posted:How well does FS play with only 2?
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Jun 28, 2016 16:56
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Fat Samurai posted:How well does FS play with only 2? I'll be trying it out with two later this week, I'll report back.
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Jun 28, 2016 17:00
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Forbidden Stars with two players feels like chess. I can generally tell what you're doing, you can tell what I am. Move-countermove. Going to three or four players complicates hings so much that it really feels like a different game.
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Jun 28, 2016 17:12
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Fun. I've seen it compared to Kemet so much and I really want a 2-player Kemet.
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Jun 28, 2016 17:19
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Got to try a few guys that have been sitting on my shelf for a while. Bomarzo was a huge disappointment. Maybe I was tired, maybe it just wasn't the right time for it, but the GF and I floundered our way through an entire game of it, struggling with the manual and not really getting a feel for anything we were doing. I got smoked but neither of us really felt connected to anything we had done. I'd be more than happy to try it again but everything points to it not happening any time soon. Terra Prime was lots of fun. It plays like a streamlined Merchant of Venus and all it took was one or two turns before we were just blasting around the galaxy picking up and dropping off orders. My biggest complaint is the components which are fairly atrocious, have terrible colours, and generally were so ugly (and difficult to punch out) that it actually subtracted from the overall experience. That said, the game itself is quite fun and we were both having a blast by the end. And finally, Karuba. Very very fun. Super simple and easy to understand and teach. The components are great, and the art is very nice. It is kind of like playing group solitaire but I liked the bingo caller aspect and how things can start off a bit slow and by the end you're racing to get to the temples but trying to balance grabbing loot along the way. We played three rounds back to back and we could've played more if we didn't have to be somewhere. Highly recommended for anyone looking for a great two player game that scales up to four without any trouble and is quick and simple and really fun.
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Jun 28, 2016 17:48
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Fat Turkey posted:If you don't know discord, I was reluctant at first, but considering you don't need to register and just need a link to connect (no download necessary), it's made a lot of my online gaming a lot simpler. Add me on steam (Cerepol), also it would be cool to get a Goon TradGames discord server for instant speed discussions about rutibex's ideas.
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Jun 28, 2016 17:57
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Rutibex posted:Thats not true. I pirate board games because I am poor, not because I think designers shouldn't be paid Industry time! Most board game contracts are royalties-based, not work-for-hire based. Standard is ~5% of sales (that's sales to distributors or direct, not 5% MSRP), sometimes more for established names, or with a percentage increase after x-hundred-thousand units sold. In this respect, the tabletop industry works more like novel publishing than like the video game industry. That said, Talisman is an old Games Workshop license. And to my extremely vague recollection GW does rely almost exclusively on work-for-hire, at least in the modern era. So Robert Harris likely doesn't see a dime on modern Talisman sales? I don't actually know, I'm just guessing. So maybe take that info into account when pirating?
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Jun 28, 2016 18:19
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I'm fairly sure it works like almost any other creative industry, where the designer is paid a set rate on a "work for hire" contract and the publisher retains the intellectual rights to the game. The people that designed Talisman have already been paid a salary, by printing my own copy I am ripping off Fantasy Flight corporation and not the designer (and only theoretically, because I printed the 1st edition which they do not sell).
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Rutibex posted:Thats not true. I pirate board games because I am poor, not because I think designers shouldn't be paid Dude. I don't get why people here go after you as much as they do, but this is pants on head stupid. "I don't steal from the guy who made it. I just steal from the guy who pays the guy who made it, so he can't pay the guy who made it." Come on.
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Jun 28, 2016 18:44
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Gutter Owl posted:Industry time! Most board game contracts are royalties-based, not work-for-hire based. Standard is ~5% of sales (that's sales to distributors or direct, not 5% MSRP), sometimes more for established names, or with a percentage increase after x-hundred-thousand units sold. In this respect, the tabletop industry works more like novel publishing than like the video game industry. Yep. There is going to be some work-for-hire stuff, and a royalty deal usually involves an Advance that you might never exceed to start earning royalties, but it's mostly royalty deals. Alan R Moon was interviewed for The Next Great American Game documentary (most of his interview didn't make the final cut), and in it he basically says that he's able to use his Ticket To Ride money to pay for just messing around with other design work, with the occasional revisit to the Ticket To Ride Money Well (mind you, I do generally like the TTR expansions).
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Jun 28, 2016 18:49
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SlyFrog posted:Dude. I don't get why people here go after you as much as they do, but this is pants on head stupid. Because he does this poo poo daily.
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Jun 28, 2016 18:51
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Gutter Owl posted:So maybe take that info into account when pirating? I will! Honestly, most of the games I've printed off are genuinely print-n-play or fan made copies of really old games. About 75% of my Talisman set is fan made. I do also like to make proxy Magic cards, but I feel zero guilt about that. For one I use actual magic cards as the backs, and two I can guarantee no way in hell anyone is getting royalties on magic cards. Hasbro has that kind of poo poo locked town tight.
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Jun 28, 2016 18:58
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Fat Turkey posted:Ah. Well I played because someone in the lobby was offering a teaching game of it, which means he hosted it and had all the files. I don't think I actually acquire them, I play on his hosting. I think he was the creator because he spoke of tweaking the automation but it worked well from my perspective. I'd love the link to that Discord or to join a goon TTS discord. You can PM me the link or add me on Steam: Zoopador
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Jun 28, 2016 19:03
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I know they are distinctively different games with different objectives, but I'm torn between picking up the Game of Thrones LCG (2nd ed.) or the Game of Thrones Board Game. Basically, my girlfriend and our are hyped up from the finale the other day and are looking for a themed game to dive into. When I first looked at the rules and layout for the board game prior to playing things like Archipelago, Twilight Struggle, and Middle Earth Quest, I said to myself this will be a loving nightmare to teach people. It doesn't look so bad now and the deception and cut-throat fuckery is very appealing. However, I know player count matters more instead of the 1v1 that the LCG can support. Has anyone played both and can talk about which one they prefer and why?
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Jun 28, 2016 19:04
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Havent played either but the LCG supports multiple players- it apparently scales relatively well with included rules for a multiplayer melee
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Jun 28, 2016 19:05
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Game of Thrones the Board Game is good, but requires 6 players (no less) and 6+ hours. Game of Thrones LCG 2nd ed is my favorite game of all time and my wife and I play it 5-6 times a week. Fantastic 2 player game, easy deck building, super thematic to the source material, and it can even play up to 6 players in melee (and adds in tons of political alliances which is interesting). Buy two core sets to start out though, then the chapter packs as you see fit, but even without them it's a great game.
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Jun 28, 2016 19:06
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The board game is kind of like modern Diplomacy in that it's all bluffing, is best with a full table, and you should remove anything sharp in your household by the end of it.
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Jun 28, 2016 19:13
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Rutibex, I'm curious, but have you made a homemade version of Campaign for North Africa? I would love to see such a monstrosity.
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Jun 28, 2016 19:13
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Thanks for the replies! It confirms my suspicions about the board game. The LCG is on sale at Barnes & Nobles, so I think we'll pick it up there.
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Jun 28, 2016 19:15
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The Feast for Crows expansion for the GoT board game is excellent and plays exactly 4. I consider it better than the base. It solves the issue of the leader having to basically surprise win (you can steadily build vps instead of having to hold Castles) and also fixes supply barrels so they are always updated to stop you being screwed by the event deck. Serious boardgamers will probably be unable to reconcile the lack of blue pieces and tokens for house arryn however. The base game is also still good at 4 and 5 just don't use the houses suggested in the rules (there's better set-ups out there, I just can't remember them)
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Jun 28, 2016 19:18
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Chill la Chill posted:Rutibex, I'm curious, but have you made a homemade version of Campaign for North Africa? I would love to see such a monstrosity. I have not, but funny enough I could if I wanted to! One of my friends is a bit of a hoarder and has a huge drafting printer for making blueprints or something. I could print out that map full sized very easily. The chits are simple enough too, I've made loads of chits. My next project is Magic Realm, if I can find the time to get around to it.
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Jun 28, 2016 19:18
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Fat Turkey posted:Ah. Well I played because someone in the lobby was offering a teaching game of it, which means he hosted it and had all the files. I don't think I actually acquire them, I play on his hosting. I think he was the creator because he spoke of tweaking the automation but it worked well from my perspective. Just picked up TTS, and I'd love to get in on this. My Steam ID is the same as my Forum ID.
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Jun 28, 2016 19:27
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Rutibex posted:I have not, but funny enough I could if I wanted to! One of my friends is a bit of a hoarder and has a huge drafting printer for making blueprints or something. I could print out that map full sized very easily. The chits are simple enough too, I've made loads of chits. Please print something like this http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r725_50.pdf for a more thematic experience. idk what comes in the game - maybe it already has something like it. 
Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 19:32
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On the subject of Vassal versus Tabletop Simulator, which is better/easier for prototyping and playtesting games?
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Jun 28, 2016 20:03
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Fenn the Fool! posted:On the subject of Vassal versus Tabletop Simulator, which is better/easier for prototyping and playtesting games? As someone who "professionally" makes VASSAL modules, it's a pain in the rear end. But, not terrible once you get through the really opaque and convoluted editing interface.
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Jun 28, 2016 20:05
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I'd like to get in on this goon TTS thing too
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Jun 28, 2016 20:06
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Fenn the Fool! posted:On the subject of Vassal versus Tabletop Simulator, which is better/easier for prototyping and playtesting games? I haven't tried Vassal. I did one game in TS, and wasn't blown away by the ease of use, to be honest. I've done the remainder of my games physically using fake card backs, sleeves, and dollar store trinkets, and vastly prefer that. Especially since it gives you a good idea for the physicality of the game (like: is it annoying to have a game take up that much space? is it annoying to shuffle that much? can I get meaningful visual information at a glance from the board?), which I find to be an underlooked but really vital part of the tabletop gaming experience.
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Jun 28, 2016 20:07
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Rutibex posted:I pirate board games because I am poor, not because I think designers shouldn't be paid I work part-time for minimum wage and I was still able to replace most of my collection when it was stolen. How much poorer than me do you have to be to need to pirate games?
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Jun 28, 2016 20:24
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Fenn the Fool! posted:On the subject of Vassal versus Tabletop Simulator, which is better/easier for prototyping and playtesting games? Prototyping? I think TTS might be simpler due to literally slapping images onto objects. Though it will have absolutely no rules enforcement so you would need a good rules doc or someone there to explain. You could potentially even use a different games objects for a really quick playtest after throwing in your MS paint game board. Vassal would be after you've nailed down a few specifics I think and wanted some automation/rules enforcement or pieces I think. DISCLAIMER, last time I messed around with vassal modding was years ago (same with TTS though)
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Jun 28, 2016 20:28
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Some Numbers posted:I work part-time for minimum wage and I was still able to replace most of my collection when it was stolen. How on Earth can you afford rent working part time on minimum wage? If you live at home you have your answer. I am a student and my yearly income is actually negative, so yes I am poorer than you 
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Jun 28, 2016 20:35
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Rutibex posted:How on Earth can you afford rent working part time on minimum wage? If you live at home you have your answer. For a while I was living rent free, but I recently inherited the house and I split the mortgage with a roommate. It's still $500/month, which is about 40% of the median rent anywhere else in my city.
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Jun 28, 2016 20:38
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