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Droogie posted:One would think. I paused before adding this one, but did so after the considerations that:
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Jun 26, 2016 14:42
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Chichevache posted:Has Mythbusters ever tested whether or not a torch could make a human skull pop? That stood out to me and I wasn't sure if a traumatised witness imagined it, or if the right conditions could, what? Boil the brain and increase pressure until the skull burst like Scanners? "Science" posted:
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Jun 26, 2016 15:16
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I always assumed the cutting jet would have penetrated straight through, providing the effect.
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Jun 26, 2016 16:00
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Business of Ferrets posted:I always assumed the cutting jet would have penetrated straight through, providing the effect. We may never really know! PREVIOUSLY: Cellblock 4 has been broken into, and the prison is thick with both smoke and the screams of inmates being hunted down and brutally murdered. Several inmates use this time to escape and surrender to authorities. The Dead What follows is just some quick, light reading for a Sunday morning. this is a list of those officially declared dead, and it comes straight from the state's official report. I've paired it down to: Name - age - Location of body - cause of death. Anything in quotation marks is my own doing, just to highlight some of the official report. Given the array of tools and weapons available, you can probably fill in the rest.  Briones, Michael 22 Found in basement of cellblock 4 Foreign object through head Cardon, Lawrence C. 24 Cellblock 3, Cell 32 Multiple stab wounds, neck & chest Coca, Nick 30 Hispanic Officers Mess Hall Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Fierro, Richard J. 26 Carried to tower 1 Multiple stab wounds Foley, James C. 19 Carried to tower 1 Cranocerebral injuries Gossens, Donald J. 23 Cellblock 4, Cell 35 Cranocerebral injuries Hernandez, Phillip C. 30 Cellblock 4 basement Blunt trauma to head, stab wounds Jaramillo, Valentino E. 35 Cellblock 4, mid-tier, cell 23 Hanged Johnson, Kelly E. 26 Gymnasium Burned Lucero, Steven 25 School Corridor Blunt Trauma to head, stab wounds Madrid, Joe A. 38 Near control center Blunt trauma to head, incision in neck Madrid, Ramon 40 Cellblock 4, Cell 25 Burned Martinez, Archie M. 25 Carried to tower 1 Trauma to the head Mirabal, Joseph A. 24 Cellblock 4 basement Blunt trauma to the head Moreno, Ben G. 20 Carried to tower 1 Blunt trauma to the head Moreno, Gilbert O. 25 Near control center Stab wound in chest, trauma to head OMeara, Thomas 25 Gymnasium Burned Ortega, Filiberto M. 25 Gymnasium Burned Ortega, Frank J. 20 Carried to tower 1 Incised wound to head and neck Paul, Paulina 36 Brought to front gate Multiple stab wounds, decapitated Perrin, James 34 Cellblock 4 basement Trauma, burned, stabbed Quintela, Robert L. 29 Near control center Blunt trauma to head, stab wounds Rivera, Robert L. 28 Corridor Dorms A-F Stabbed in the heart Romero, Vincent E. 34 Cellblock 4 basement, cell 41 Cranocerebral injuries, wounds in neck Russell, Herman D. 26 Dorm A1, bottom floor burned carbon monoxide poisoning Sanchez, Juan M. 22 Cellblock 3, lower tier, cell 12 Shot by tear gas gun, head trauma Sedillo, Frankie J. 31 Carried to tower 1, - Carbon Monoxide poisoning Smith, Larry W. 31 Cellblock 4, front entry Cranocerebral injuries Tenorio, Leo J. 25 Cellblock 4, front of cell 76 Stab wounds to heart Urioste, Mario 28 Cellblock 4, main entry Blunt trauma to head, rope around neck Waller, Danny D. 26 Carried to tower 1 Multiple stab wounds, cranocerebral injuries Werner, Russel M. 22 Catholic Chapel Carbon monoxide poisoning, burned, blunt trauma to head  Skull of one of the inmates killed with teargas launcher NEXT: Winding down
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Jun 26, 2016 16:34
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I remember watching something on Herculaneum once, saying that when they found the bodies there, at first they thought they were prisoners, or murder victims, because a bunch of the skulls were basically smashed. They found later that the pyroclastic flow was so sudden and hot that that was the reason the skulls had broken. Evidence of the corpses exposure to high temperature, apart postures, were the explosion of the skulls, gross and micro cracking of bones and teeth, blackening of the bones less protected by soft tissues, hyper flection of hands and feet, he said. So extreme heat from a torch could have maybe been hot enough to pop a skull.
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Jun 26, 2016 17:00
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ToastFaceKillah posted:So extreme heat from a torch could have maybe been hot enough to pop a skull. I think this is closer to what happened. What the guy witnessed was probably an explosion to him, but I think "explosion" is probably closer to "sudden split"
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Jun 26, 2016 17:16
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agh jesus christ The LA Times has a good writeup of Christopher Dorner's rampage told from the perspectives of the people he was stalking and the police who tracked him down. http://graphics.latimes.com/christopher-dorner-manhunt
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Jun 26, 2016 18:06
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Droogie posted:We may never really know! Jesus Droogie, your posts are legit giving my nightmares. I refrained from telling my neuropsychology boyfriend about exploding gooey brains when I woke him up by being all whimpering and sweaty. ... Keep it coming  .Just a totally ordinary, suburban mom who wants to keep her guns so she can protect her family. https://www.facebook.com/cbsheats?pnref=story I know ΄that if that had never happened I would just look at that facebook page and go. OK she likes Keith Urban. In hindsight "It would be horribly tragic if my ability to protect myself or my family were to be taken away" is just loving terrible.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:27
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Sarcopenia posted:It would be horribly tragic if my ability to murder my family were to be taken away. fixed That lady has a serious amount of crazy-stare in just about every picture. 
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Jun 26, 2016 19:38
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TotalLossBrain posted:fixed Calling it now, she was called crusty sheets in school.
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Jun 26, 2016 19:50
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Droogie posted:
I think this is the guy I remember one of the correctional officers talking about in the documentaries. Basically, he had shoplifted, but couldn't go to juvie but because of overflow they stuck him in the penitentiary. He was completely unprepared to deal with prison, and was gang-raped early on. When he reported it he was placed in protective custody. The inmates who got reported got their revenge. And he had only been there for a few weeks or something before he was brutally murdered.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:06
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Droogie posted:One would think. I paused before adding this one, but did so after the considerations that: Also those kind of torches already just make a high pitched whistling shriek type of noise when they are on. They're hot enough to cut through the hull of a space shuttle so they really don't gently caress around.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:26
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I am glad we can all have this discussion together. This is a great thread.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:29
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Nouvelle Vague posted:And he had only been there for a few weeks or something before he was brutally murdered. Mario Urioste was in for drunken behavior and receiving stolen goods. He was ordered to a minimum-security facility, but the facility had no room so he was transferred to NMSP and was beaten and raped repeatedly. His family said he weighed approximately 90 pounds the last time they saw him. There was also Robert Quintela, an artist, who was in for a burglary, and was eligible for parole in just a month or two.
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Jun 26, 2016 21:40
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Business of Ferrets posted:I always assumed the cutting jet would have penetrated straight through, providing the effect. A cutting torch works by heating the metal to a liquid state and then blowing it away with Oxygen. Bone is surprisingly durable and, of course, doesn't liquefy. As disturbing as the mental image is, I could see a torch causing a skull to "pop" as the pressure is relieved. I'd rather not think about it though.
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Jun 27, 2016 03:59
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I think the thing is that fire (so say burning a body) is a lot more gradual than a cutting torch. Gradually heating a skull to ~800 C is going to be a lot different than heating a portion of it to temperatures of greater than 2400 C nearly instantly. With the brain being 75% water I could see some splitting going on.
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Jun 27, 2016 05:34
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Also those kind of torches already just make a high pitched whistling shriek type of noise when they are on. They're hot enough to cut through the hull of a space shuttle so they really don't gently caress around. Yeah this. Whistling/shriek sound is the sound they make when there's a lot of oxygen. Either in a cutting torch when you hit the oxygen boost trigger to start cutting, or in a regular welding/brazing torch nozzle and you hosed up and set the oxygen too high and it's half blowing itself out. I think I've heard about this riot/murder spree before but forgot the outcome. Thanks for the write up droogie. It's horrifying but at the same time I want to know what happened in the end as I've forgotten. Fo3 has a new favorite as of 11:58 on Jun 27, 2016 |
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Jun 27, 2016 11:51
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I love the discourse over head 'splodin'. PREVIOUSLY: Inmates hopped up on spray paint and solvents are armed with construction tools and riot gear, go on a murdering spree of other inmates for both real and perceived slights. It has been only 5 hours from the start of the riot, and the facility is simultaneously on fire and flooding, and bodies are piling up. From here on, things get dry and there are long expanses of planning and negotiating. Things quickly start to fall apart for the rioters. Winding Down After the slaughter in cellblock 4, only six hours had elapsed. The majority of the unnerving details were all but covered at this point. The reign of carnage and brutality would last an additional 30 hours from this point, with most convicts surrendering and the riot ending after the initial momentum was lost. Inside the facility were 13 officers and the infirmary tech, 11 being held hostage with several of them suffering multiple injuries from blunt force trauma, stab wounds, and repeated rapes. Two officers were able to secure themselves in the north wing basement, adjacent to the prison gas chamber in a small crawl space for the duration of the 36 hour siege. The hidden infirmary technician would also remain undiscovered. By 2:30 am on the second, almost all high-ranking people in administration had been alerted to the riot and they were standing by in the freezing night. An executive decision was made at this time to attempt negotiations with the inmates, as they had the upper hand and 13 men trapped inside the facility. With inmates threatening the lives of the hostages if direct action was taken, there was little they could do at the moment. City and state police had secured the entire perimeter of the facility by 3 am, and the then governor, Bruce King, had been alerted to the situation and in turn called the National Guard. The guard notified in excess of 500 units to prepare for deployment. By 2:45 am a volunteer fire department was mobilized to the prison, as the prisons dedicated fire engine was currently undergoing maintenance. Upon arrival they realized that the situation was far from a simple fire alarm. During the course of the riot, inmates would repeatedly request access to fire hoses, realizing that setting the building they occupied on fire was not necessarily a smart move. Due to their lack of fire-fighting training, the fires would continue to burn, and new fires were started. Inmates would frequently request firefighter presence to different parts of the facility, but every time crews were dispatched to attempt to fight the fires from the outside, inmates would throw debris at the crew, and this is why we cant have nice things. Over the course of the night and into the next day, inmates inside the facility kept in radio contact with officials by tower one in an attempt to negotiate and make demands, but there were 8 working radios inside the facility, and they were routinely handed off among the inmates, making negotiations almost impossible in the chaos. Demands changed with the whims of the inmates holding a radio, but through all the chaos, multiple demands remained consistent throughout. They initially were asking to speak to the Governor and the press, they wanted a public platform to air their grievances about the prison conditions, and they were requesting the resignation of several high-ranking administrators. Eventually an inmate designated himself Chopper 1 and took over the bulk of communication with officials, lending an air of authority to the unruly mob and a platform for progress to be made. Continuing into the morning, the guard disguised as inmate made a narrow escape, and as cellblock 4 was erupting into bedlam, two more hostages were released to officials, both of whom had suffered multiple injuries and were in dire need of medical attention. While initially attempted to be used as bargaining chips, officials believed more so that the inmates legitimately did not want any of the captive officers to die under their care for fear of an immediate, violent display of force against the facility. Over the course of the morning, where temperatures were hovering around 0 degrees, units from the National Guard started to arrive at the facility, and more inmates started to escape from unguarded holes in the facility, including a group of drat lucky to be alive inmates from cellblock 4, who stole the cutting torch used to enter their block and used it to cut through an exterior door in the construction zone of cellblock 5. Chopper 1 repeatedly threatened the lives of the hostages, but over the course of the night and into the next morning, the inmates would start to hemorrhage hostages, either due to the medical condition of guards, or by sympathetic inmates (two more officers would be escorted to safety disguised as inmates). Eventually it almost seemed like they were released simply because control over the facility was slipping, fires were making it difficult to accomplish anything, and from the rioting damage, cellblocks were flooding and bleeding corpses littered the hallways and cells. In spite of it all, Chopper 1 set forth a list of demands which were rather modest, and the officials responded in politically neutral ways. Inmate's Demands and Officials' Answers 1. Bring federal officials to the penitentiary to assure inmates no retaliation will occur. Answer: We will ask for the assistance of the FBI. 2. Reclassify the men held in Cellblock 3. Answer: Security risks will remain in Cellblock 3. 3. Leave all inmates in the units they were originally assigned to until the uprising is over. Answer: We cannot agree to this until the prison's condition is determined. 4. End overcrowding at the prison. Answer: About 288 beds will be ready in July and we have asked for an additional 200 from the Legislature. 5. Improve visiting conditions at the prison. Answer: This has been in effect for two weeks as worked out with the American Civil Liberties Union negotiating committee. 6. Improve prison food. Answer: We will hire a nutritionist to oversee the food operation. 7. Allow the news media into the prison. Answer: Not until all the hostages are released. 8. Improve recreational facilities. Answer: We are now negotiating with the American Civil Liberties Union. 9. Improve the prison's educational facilities. Answer: This is being discussed with the Legislature, plus raising inmate wages from the present 25 cents per hour. 10. Appoint a different disciplinary committee. Answer: We will take a long, hard look at that. 11. End overall harassment. Answer: We will have additional correctional officers who will be trained. The Corrections Commission is also looking at this problem.  Going into Sunday morning, dozens and dozens of inmates spill out of the penitentiary to surrender to authorities. Most surrendering were inmates unwilling to participate in the riot and those that felt they were at risk. As time wore on, inmates that could no longer stand the smoke choked, flooded pits of blood and feces infected hell they had turned the facility into joined those surrendering. Inmates that were injured or suffering drug overdoses were carted away to medical facilities that had been cleared to treat inmates. Those with lesser injuries were treated on scene by the National Guard. With the main building still under the slipping control of the inmates, the National Guard also stood watch over the surrendered convicts in the yard. There was nowhere for them to be until the situation was resolved. Inmates huddled together as the National Guard threw the surrendered blankets, which would serve as their only shelter until the end of the riot.   NEXT/LAST: Retaking and Aftermath
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Jun 27, 2016 15:32
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There is an episode of House of Horrors: Kidnapped (season 3, episode 8, "Murderer's Row") where they interview one of the guards who was there. Guy's name is Larry Mendoza. I thought his account was brutal, but this write-up shows that Larry didn't know half of what happened. Probably for the best. The government put him on permanent disability. You can watch it on Amazon Prime.
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Jun 28, 2016 00:34
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I actually haven't seen either of the documentaries posted. Thank you all for contributions. PREVIOUSLY: The violence of the riot has raged inside for more than a day. At this point, the inmates have started surrendering in droves, and the momentum has fizzled. Three employees are still hidden inside the prison, and 9 hostages have escaped with assistance or have been turned over. The guards given up have been beaten, stabbed, and/or raped. The makeshift command post is now speaking about forcefully taking the prison at this point. Retaking and Aftermath  In the early hours of Sunday, February 3, the people calling the shots had started to assemble various SWAT teams from the city and state, along with groups of National Guard troops and started going over possible routes of entry and how to clear the occupied building. It was time. Almost all hostages had escaped or been released, and the yard was now full of hundreds upon hundreds of inmates that had formally surrendered. The inmates still inside the facility that werent physically locked in their cells knew that they had lost control of the situation. Several plans to stage a takeover in the early morning hours were rejected for lingering safety concerns for both SWAT teams and remaining hostages. Just before 1:30 pm, the last two officers being held hostage were released. The siege was over. The remaining inmates were still unaware of the three people inside the facility in hiding, but the officials were aware that they had not been discovered. Plans were quickly formulated. So quick, in fact, that the agencies failed to communicate with each other past the initial planning phase of entry, which outlined the two crucial objectives: One, locate and secure the three employees and remove the remaining inmates, which on the high end was estimated to be no more than 125 still inside, and to preserve crime scenes. A team of 22 state police SWAT members were to enter the facility via the main entrance by the control tower, and from there split into a north and south group to sweep the wings. Simultaneously, a SWAT team of 15 from Santa Fe were to enter the building from a north entrance and meet with the north-most state police. The city team was accompanied by 5 prison staff to handle unlocking and layout. The state team entered the building and immediately started removing inmates, one by one. For some reason, a group of approximately 20 people that were not SWAT or National Guard were allowed to enter behind the team. They were mostly all turned away after entering the facility. Some of the people were actually civilians that had managed to wander inside in order to have a look at the active riot, and nobody had noticed. One posted guard even showed a civilian around the immediate area while the retake was in process. Meanwhile, the city SWAT team was attempting to enter from the north. In spite of their prison guard escorts, they did not have a key to the north sally port and opted for plan B, which was to enter from the outside of cellblock 4. This effort was immediately thwarted upon arrival at the door, because as you may remember, there was no key to be found for the inside grate. This was still the case. They quickly formulated a plan C, and entered the facility via a loading dock behind the kitchen. They secured the kitchen area and basements before moving to the main corridor, where they met up with State SWAT south team. The problem with this is that State SWAT south was not supposed to encounter City SWAT during their progression, and State SWAT was not only caught off guard by this, but they believed city SWAT to be inmates in riot gear. An immediate tense standoff followed in which the City SWAT team was almost shot, and an accompanying prison guard could not identify himself in the midst of the situation. The situation resolved quickly and without injury, but there was very nearly a firefight between SWAT teams inside the prison. Once sorted, the force moves out as one and tower one picks up a hurried radio transmission in Spanish between inmates. The stupid asses gave up the hostages. Now theyre going to come in and shoot us. One radio operator sees the SWAT team and quickly appeals to any inmates listening to get the word out. Another inmate calls out on the radio: Attention Chopper 1. 1, come in Chopper 1? There is no reply, and the radios controlled by the inmates fall silent completely. Outside the facility as the National Guard is escorting secured inmates, the psychological unit visibly begins to burn as the Santa Fe County Sheriffs office watches on as inmates trapped in the second floor signal for help. SFCSD decides that they are going to join the retaking efforts and secure the inmates inside the psych wing, and they enter from the outside. Unfortunately, nobody communicates that SFCSD is joining the effort to the two SWAT teams inside. This new team frees the inmates in the psych wing to the waiting National Guard, and satisfied with their success, move on to cellblock six in order to continue rendering aid. Outside the cellblock, State SWAT North encounters a group of Sheriffs office deputies instead of a SWAT team, which is what they were expecting. In the thick smoke, SWAT officers level their rifles at the SFCSD officers and the officers are nearly shot. Another standoff ensues with everyone eventually identifying one another. After two hours of careful sweeping by all police units involved in the retaking efforts, they slog through hazardous ankle-deep waters and remove all rioters and all inmates that were still locked up, still lucky to be alive. The three employees in hiding had been located and secured safely. The prison was secure. For several minutes. Several prisoners in the yard start attempting to re-enter the prison and SWAT is immediately re-mobilized to the facility to sweep them out once more. There are several small scuffles in the yard between prisoners, and a couple between the National Guard and inmates. During the course of these events, members of the correction commission, prison staff, and civilians all enter facility to see the carnage inside, all without identification, causing multiple misunderstandings with the SWAT teams inside still. After the facility is secured a second time, law enforcement enter the facility in an official capacity and immediately start pocketing souvenir items of the riot, including weapons from the active crime scene. Outside, civilians are rifling through a big box of weapons surrendered by prisoners, which was left unguarded. The afternoon of the 3rd, State police were given the task of photographing crime scenes inside the facility. National Guard troops were given orders to start removing bodies of the deceased from the crime scene. The two entities, unaware of each others tasks, begin simultaneously. The Guard quickly realized that their orders were not helpful to what was an active crime scene and ceased their duties immediately, but several bodies had already been removed. The state police, realizing that scenes were being disturbed, rushed through their documentation in order to get as many scenes documented as fast as possible. New Mexico State Police and OMI work for days to document the carnage inside the penitentiary and work to piece the deceased back together. In the gymnasium, the charred corpses of inmates are so burnt and broken down beyond recognition that anthropologists from the University of New Mexico are brought in to collect bone fragments in small cigar box sized containers so they can reconstruct the bodies enough to identify. One National Guardsman was asked by media on the last day what he did during the retaking process of the penitentiary. He simply responded, I vomited.  Recursive Aftermath After most of the inmates were scattered to different facilities across the country, the facility was cleaned with the help of several inmates, and The Main started housing convicts on February 7, 1980, less than 4 days after the end of the riot. By May 23, Cellblock 5 was completed. Reminders of the riot were everywhere, notably the axe marks in the ground and the silhouettes of corpses permanently charred into the ground. The Facility, The Main would continue operations until 1998, and is now referred to The Old Main. The following months and into years there were heated political and court battles being fought over the riot and the conditions. Few of the demands of the inmates had been met, and even still the corrections staff submitted demands pertaining to basic safety and training in addition to a list of grievances. Court battles would be fought about prison reform and implementation, most of the reform guidelines would not be implemented by Governor King, instead leaving it for his successor 7 years later; and even then New Mexicos government attempted to circumvent and save money on reforms. Going back to the reports, many inmates grew angry at the official report of 33 dead inmates having been found, as they believed there to be many more unreported. Officials, and especially Governor King, routinely dismissed any accounts of people claiming that the death count was higher than that of official reports, and the Governor was totally satisfied with the official count. According the penitentiary records, however, 20 men were still considered unlocated, 8 men were not where they were listed as being and were nowhere to be found, 5 inmates were shown to have been paroled just before the riot, in spite of the fact that none of the 5 were yet eligible, and an additional 6 inmates were listed as having been transferred to federal facilities. Those facilities had no record of receiving the inmates. King publicly stated that people had stopped calling about inmates, and if anyone was still missing, someone would be looking for them. King neglected to divulge that less than half the inmates had contact with anyone. 44 inmates were missing, and technically are missing, to this very day. As far as trials and culpability, there were approximately 50 indictments, and 11 trials at a cost of more than $2.2 million the state considered this a success, however 17 of the 33 murders that officially occurred were not prosecuted. Out of a total of 32 pleas offered during this process, 14 of them were for second degree murder, 11 of which included concurrent sentences, adding no prison time. Five convicts put on trial were acquitted by juries in 4 of the murders, and another 13 inmates had charges dismissed related to 7 deaths. 8 additional pleas to murder added consecutive sentences, the longest of which simply added 9 years. The prisoners responsible for hostage taking, planning and executing a riot, committing multiple rapes and killing at least 33 other inmates were all right where they were, more or less, after the riot court cases three years later. Immediately following the riot, The Main would suffer multiple security issues. Officers were carrying firearms inside the facility for 6 weeks following the riot, without thought to the major security breach it presented. Riot grills no longer worked through electronic locking, and had to be operated manually. The south grill was found to be unlocked multiple times, frequently it was found to be wide open. The grill adjacent to the control room, which led to the front door, was found to be unlocked and ajar multiple times throughout April. Six weeks after the riot started, a prison administrator watched a guard walk into cellblock 6, which at the time had been designated as the new maximum security block. The guard walked past multiple inmates who were talking amongst themselves outside their cells- and the administrator saw on the guards belt a large ring of prison keys, which were to be left outside the cellblocks per regulations. Nothing had changed. Not the lack of training, not the careless attitude toward security, not the treatment of the inmates. The environment of incompetence, nepotism, and reliance on prison informants had not changed at all, and the officials, far removed, learned nothing. Through it all, Chopper 1, who was not identified (as far as I am aware), was able to make contact with then Governor King on the morning of April 2 via telephone. Governor King, when asked about the conversation, said: He just told me they wanted to be treated like men. --- Links https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico_State_Penitentiary_riot https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/72933NCJRS.pdf https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Butcher-Shop-Mexico-Uprising/dp/0826310621 http://cd.nm.gov/pio/old_main.html So that's it. What I posted was but a small overview of what happened. The backstories of those killed and those killing are all fascinating. The tangled web of incompetence and bureaucracy that led to the riot is messy and complicated and long, but equally interesting. If you have the time, I have included a link of the official report from June of 1980, and a link to the book The Devil's Butcher Shop, which is very thorough but also very embellished (the torch killing is described as the inmate's eyes exploding out the back of his skull). Regardless, it's a hell of an interesting read. There was also a book written called The Hate Factory, but I haven't read it. There are also the documentaries and shows others have recommended. The Old Main is now literally a tourist destination. Rather than shut away the past, New Mexico Corrections leads tour groups through the facility on the weekends as a way of facing the past head-on. I have not been, and I was planning on going this last weekend, but as the temperatures have been flirting around 100 (above and below), I'm planning on going probably in September. That said, I'm no expert, but I'm fascinated with true crime and local weirdness. If anyone has any questions for myself or locals, I once again invite you to ask. Thank you all for reading and supporting my endeavors to write these. After reading the whole saga, you deserve a beer. May I recommend Santa Fe Brewing Company's State Pen Porter? 
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Jun 28, 2016 03:00
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God drat, I hope you get these published somehow, or at least try. The history of New Mexico is fascinating, and old in terms of European colonization in what would become the US.
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Jun 28, 2016 03:08
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Christ
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Jun 28, 2016 03:27
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Droogie, I'm going to go ahead and assume that you've watched Breaking Bad. Is there any local New Mexico things that the creators of the show may have stuck in there that only a native would notice? If you haven't watched the show disregard this post, or take it as a thanks for the very nice write-ups. Edit: Have you considered doing a podcast? Unless you've got a really unfortunate speech impediment It'd be pretty cool to hear your take on some true crime cases. I listen to Sword and Scale but that guy is kinda douchey. Something with your level of research laid out with some real audio, minus the goofy music and over dramatic horseshit would be awesome. Grumbletron 4000 has a new favorite as of 05:31 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 05:24
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> . 44 inmates were missing, and technically are missing, to this very day. Jesus H. Christ. I wish I could disbelieve you, because I wish I could believe that people aren't this vile. Another gorgeous and compelling piece of writing, Droogie.
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Jun 28, 2016 05:44
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Grumbletron 4000 posted:Droogie, I'm going to go ahead and assume that you've watched Breaking Bad. Is there any local New Mexico things that the creators of the show may have stuck in there that only a native would notice? If you haven't watched the show disregard this post, or take it as a thanks for the very nice write-ups. I have, and thought it was great, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head. I do know that all the locations were and are real places, so much so that there are tours around the city and I live relatively close enough to "The White Residence" that I've had people ask if I knew where it was while I'm working on a car or something in front of my house. When they refer to areas of town, they're pretty accurate. If I think of anything I'll let you know. No, wait. I worked at a pet store where the drug selling montage from season two was partially filmed. The blue room with the fish tanks. I oversaw the store that night and was in charge of helping the crew with anything they needed location-wise. The fun fact is that on screen is not the first time meth had been sold in that fish room. As for podcasts, I love them, but I don't have the time to take on anything like that. And I don't write these, ever. Just for this thread. I already work more than full-time in animal control, and I paint in my spare time. I don't consider myself a writer.
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Jun 28, 2016 05:47
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That's awesome that you were involved with Breaking Bad! Even if it was only a little bit. That's a good story to have under your belt considering how popular that show was. As far as your writing, from what you've written in this thread I'd say you have a knack for it. Everyone seems to enjoy your contributions. I encourage you to contact one of the popular podcasts and contribute some of your research. Your posts are pretty much a pre-made episode of Sword and Scale or maybe even Last Podcast on the Left.
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Jun 28, 2016 06:24
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Droogie posted:MASSIVE GIGANTIC CLUSTERFUCK Holy poo poo, it's like everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. Miscommunications, loving civilians just wandering in like it's a goddamn guided tour, multiple standoffs between SWAT/police teams, confiscated weapons left unguarded, national guardsmen clearing away undocumented crime scenes, taking "souvenirs", the list goes on. And nobody learning a goddamned thing 
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Jun 28, 2016 09:24
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KozmoNaut posted:loving civilians just wandering in Of all the stuff that occurred during the riot, this was the most unreal poo poo Imagine dozens of random townsfolk milling around the site of an ongoing, unresolved, actively hostile situation unsupervised, in zero degree weather for no apparent reasons other than curiosity and lack of a light on in the attic. I'm hoping that most of the "civilians" were journalists who were aware that they were risking life and limb by being there, but I can't help but think at least a few of them arrived after something like this: "Honey, wake up! Frank from next door just called and said there is a huge riot out at The Main. You know, that overcrowded facility where all those dangerous inmates are being held in terrible conditions? Frank and his wife invited us to meet up with them and the Jenkinses across the street in ten minutes to go poke around the unsecured prison full of violent dudes who are literally murdering each other with axes and cutting torches at this very moment. Get dressed and wake up the kids, I'll go pop us some popcorn"
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Jun 28, 2016 16:21
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:Of all the stuff that occurred during the riot, this was the most unreal poo poo The scene sounds like a lot of press, a lot of politicians, but they heavily mention family, mobs of them. Both of the inmates and of guards. It's pointed out that their base of operations was so unsecured that anyone from standard police to families were privy to negotiation tactics.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:26
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Droogie posted:One would think. I paused before adding this one, but did so after the considerations that: Out of context, this post is the creepiest goddamn thing I've seen in weeks. I had to go back and read about the riot. Holy poo poo, dude.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:37
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Lest you think the world has changed since the NM riots, privatized prisons save money by cutting programs, eliminating rec time, and deliberately understaffing.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:43
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Droogie posted:The scene sounds like a lot of press, a lot of politicians, but they heavily mention family, mobs of them. Both of the inmates and of guards. I was about to say "Whew, at least it wasn't random people totally oblivious to the danger" but it being tons of family is worse  Instead of clueless idiots wandering around, there were people there with emotional investments in the victims and hostages (and probably in the suspects, too, but I've gotta say that if my brother were the type to take a cutting torch to a living human being, I don't think I'd bother showing up for his riot), and they were in crisis mode. Things could've gotten worse in any number of ways and we're drat lucky there wasn't another set of chapters for you to write up called "The Riot After the Riot." Speaking of, you've got a knack for writing, and I suspect you'd make a stellar freelance journalist. If you ever get a break from controlling animals, you might chat up your local NPR station/regional newspaper or other periodical/whatever and see if they'd be willing to buy stories about stuff in the region from you. The local joints eat that stuff up, especially when the author is someone with a history in the area.
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Jun 28, 2016 17:06
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Droogie, "not a writer" is quite honestly a meaningless description. Some people think you aren't a writer if you aren't getting paid for it. Some people think you aren't a writer if you aren't publishing books. Some people think you aren't a writer unless it's your day job. The distinction between "writing" and "being a writer" is based as much on prestige as anything else. I'm saying this because you aren't just writing, you're writing well. Every so often a goon pops up who writes compellingly -- Elise in the Health Care Stories thread, for instance. You're one of those. You have a distinctive voice, meaning that your writing doesn't sound like anybody else's. You have a gift for the vivid detail. You tie in your knowledge of the area. Whether or not you are a writer, you are doing excellent regional writing. Just as somebody whose day job is being a nurse but who plays classical guitar at night is still a musician, somebody who has a full-time job and also writes is still "a writer". Seriously, when Southwest Review opens submissions in the fall, send one of your SA crime stories. You have absolutely nothing to lose. "NONFICTION: Articles published by the Southwest Review embrace almost every area of adult interest: contemporary affairs, history, folklore, fiction, poetry, literary criticism, art, music, and the theatre. Material should be presented in a fashion suited to a quarterly that is not journalistic and not terribly overloaded with academic apparatus or jargon. It should not be too specialized, after the manner of papers that appear in "learned journals" of different fields of study."
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Jun 28, 2016 17:22
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:I was about to say "Whew, at least it wasn't random people totally oblivious to the danger" but it being tons of family is worse
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Jun 28, 2016 17:27
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Droogie, "not a writer" is quite honestly a meaningless description. Fair enough. Everyone's praise and encouragement are really making me think I should try something out. I consider myself a painter without a second thought, but I've never shown and I've only ever sold or given things to friends, but I have the hangup about writing. I guess it's nothing I do regularly or practice, is why. I've just been lucky enough to be bored enough to work on these.
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Jun 28, 2016 18:56
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Droogie posted:Fair enough. Everyone's praise and encouragement are really making me think I should try something out. I consider myself a painter without a second thought, but I've never shown and I've only ever sold or given things to friends, but I have the hangup about writing. I guess it's nothing I do regularly or practice, is why. You are a writer. You complied information and summarized it in your posts. That makes you a writer. The content in those posts makes you a drat good and effective writer.
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Jun 28, 2016 20:21
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Yeah, they're really well written, researched, and informative. I could see a paper actually paying you to do serialized stuff like this.
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Jun 28, 2016 20:24
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Droogie posted:I consider myself a painter without a second thought You paint pretty well with words too. Good composition, use of contrast, details to enhance realism and give a sense of place.
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Jun 28, 2016 20:24
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Droogie posted:Fair enough. Everyone's praise and encouragement are really making me think I should try something out. I consider myself a painter without a second thought, but I've never shown and I've only ever sold or given things to friends, but I have the hangup about writing. I guess it's nothing I do regularly or practice, is why. Honestly even if you only do these once in a blue moon, it doesn't take too much effort to compile this stuff you write up for the thread and send it off to a publisher. You don't have to become a dedicated author, but this is fascinating stuff. I'd just like to mention that it's thanks to stuff like this, and podcasts like The Dollop, I've found a renewed interest in History over the past few years because it turns out that history is loving amazing. Public schools just teach it in the least interesting possible way leaving so many people to not give a gently caress about the past.
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Jun 28, 2016 22:18
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| # ? May 16, 2024 11:30 |
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Droogie posted:Fair enough. Everyone's praise and encouragement are really making me think I should try something out. I consider myself a painter without a second thought, but I've never shown and I've only ever sold or given things to friends, but I have the hangup about writing. I guess it's nothing I do regularly or practice, is why. And you could possibly make a few more bucks illustrating your own work.
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Jun 28, 2016 22:49
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