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Coolguye posted:it's fine for HoE to be painful so if the hardcore spergs want that to be their secret treefort for them to theorycraft and be happy being their toxic selves then i say it's a small price to pay I'm not saying they can't have that, in fact I'd support it since I only play HoE when I need an achievement. However, TW tends to balance the ENTIRE game around these retards feedback and that will affect all of us.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:26
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closeted republican posted:That sounds good in theory, but you know some of these changes are going to bleed out into the rest of the difficulties. Screwing up is what Tripwire does best. Skoll posted:I'm not saying they can't have that, in fact I'd support it since I only play HoE when I need an achievement. However, TW tends to balance the ENTIRE game around these retards feedback and that will affect all of us. this is a very persuasive argument
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Jun 29, 2016 02:27
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Game should come out and punch my dick straight off for attempting 6-man HOE without the perfect min/max team on discord/Skype/vent/mumble. With 200 hours of experience. And attuned for HoE via the Killing Floor main questline. Or, you know: Normal: fun, reasonable difficulty for new players level 0-5 Hard: fun, reasonable difficulty for players level 5-15 Suicidal: fun, reasonable difficulty for players level 15-25 HoE: fun, reasonable difficulty for players level 25.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:30
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HoE should delete system 32 upon defeat.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:33
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Propaganda Hour posted:Game should come out and punch my dick straight off for attempting 6-man HOE without the perfect min/max team on discord/Skype/vent/mumble. With 200 hours of experience. And attuned for HoE via the Killing Floor main questline. Fun? Why would I loving waste my time?!
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Jun 29, 2016 02:35
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TheTatteredKing posted:Fun? Why would I loving waste my time?! Fun is reading a spreadsheet, memorizing all of the resistances, and theorycrafting an optimized class loadout and team set up.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:40
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Propaganda Hour posted:Game should come out and punch my dick straight off for attempting 6-man HOE without the perfect min/max team on discord/Skype/vent/mumble. With 200 hours of experience. And attuned for HoE via the Killing Floor main questline.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:42
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The head dev posted this wall of text on the official forums:quote:To chime in from my perspective for what's it's worth. When it came to kf2 project it was for me a dream project that the team and myself could try to take the concept of kf1 and take it to the next level. As an animator/game designer I can't devote years of my life to something that's just turn key, kf1 with better graphics. Heck that would have been 10 times easier. Love or hate tripwire we try to always take things to the next level, it's because we truly love and care for what we do. Personally I think kf2 has so much better of an experience then kf1, this is my opinion and not fact. Kf2 has super fluid 1st person animations with details far higher then other shooters. We have a gore system that runs smooth even with everything blowing up all over the place and blood that never disappears. The hit reactions we have on the creatures is so much more advanced, we have customizable characters even every character you play as has its own voice. The hard thing which in ways I wish kf2 wasn't kf2 and its own game is to please kf1 fans that want nothing more then kf1 and still make the project grow and be something new and improved over the first game. It's no easy task. As far as the challenge level for kf2 it's our goal to have it easy to pick up but hard to master. were not there yet but I'm confident we'll get there. Pleasing fans for a sequel is very difficult. I'll give a perfect example, take call of duty series. The fans of that game say they want something more but if they change things up at all and don't just do the same game with better graphics there will be an uproar from the community. People love recall (doing something you already know) but hate recognition (learning something new) one thing I learned is with the Kf fans people want all weapons to feel extra powerful and kill thing if they hit their target from what they recall as a weak zed. Take for example the stalker. She is actually always meant to be a higher threat then she was even in kf1 we just never nailed it. Heck most the time your shooting and she happens to be in the way of a bullet and dies. In the last update she was more inline to the threat we had pictured way back in kf1 days but the problem was that the players recall is this zed should be super easy to kill and it just didn't click in there minds. Which is totally valid and a great learning lesson for me. In short the only way to make something better is to try and refine or even fail. The resistance system is a perfect example I just wish the fans didn't get so mad when we did it, but yet again a great growing experience this post is just my personal thoughts and I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong in what they want out of the game. In The end we need to make something we're all happy with, something kf1 fans will love and new people that didn't like kf1 to check out and also something that our team is excited to spend endless hours making. http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=1493800#post1493800 Here's the hilarious part of that wall of text. quote:People love recall (doing something you already know) but hate recognition (learning something new) one thing I learned is with the Kf fans people want all weapons to feel extra powerful and kill thing if they hit their target from what they recall as a weak zed. Take for example the stalker. She is actually always meant to be a higher threat then she was even in kf1 we just never nailed it. Heck most the time your shooting and she happens to be in the way of a bullet and dies. In the last update she was more inline to the threat we had pictured way back in kf1 days but the problem was that the players recall is this zed should be super easy to kill and it just didn't click in there minds. Which is totally valid and a great learning lesson for me. It's not our fault that we made a common enemy an annoying chore to kill, it's the player's fault for not appreciating our vision! Also, I like how he had to discover that players like their guns to feel powerful and kill poo poo in a game like Killing Floor 2. Well no loving poo poo; that's what the goddamn gore system is there for. People love killing dudes with powerful weapons and watching them explode into pieces, not plink them to death with poo poo weapons (except for the one weapon that hurts like normal). Any moron could've told you that. Christ Tripwire is clueless.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:58
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Of course they're cribbing the "It's the players' fault for not understanding our vision" horseshit from CIG. VVV you and me both  
Malachite_Dragon fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 03:20
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it is insanely triggering to me when someone cannot handle the difference between there and their e: also gently caress there are so many goddamn problems with that post i'm gonna go tear it apart on their forums right now Coolguye fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 03:25
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closeted republican posted:The head dev posted this wall of text on the official forums:
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Jun 29, 2016 03:39
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Fun: When taking the Backup talent let's me decapitate trash with one 9mm shot headshot, or even a single M1 knife slash. Faux Hardcore: Perk weapons needing multiple headshots to kill anything less than a Bloat. Buckshot resistant breasts. Trash being, well, TRASH, also let me carry my weight better and encouraged me to take more stabs at higher difficulties compared to the others on the team using their Pro Combos to deal with scrake/pounds. Rather than having to go from zero to MLG twitch steamer VOIP with a Doritos flavored Mountain dew sponsorship to bother with trying to not be dead weight on suicidal as anything but medic dart bitch. Hard to get that feel good feeling keeping slashers or gorefasts off a teammate's back when even if I DON'T miss the head, it may not matter. Section Z fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 03:45
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Wow so I wrote a thing and apparently a moderator has to approve my post even though my account dates back to loving 2010 lol Hopefully a mod doesn't get all pissy. I was not profane but I didn't really pull any punches on calling the sentiment stupid and pointing out how if they wanted a stealth unit to be a bigger threat, they should probably have her act more stealthy. like, you know, the loving crawler, who actually does stealth way better than the stalker right now. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 03:48
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Coolguye posted:Wow so I wrote a thing and apparently a moderator has to approve my post even though my account dates back to loving 2010 lol Crawler stealth is their natural camouflage clipping through corpses, with a side of ablative meat armor. Also yeah there's a reason every time I think about setting up a forums account there, I don't.
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Jun 29, 2016 03:57
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crawlers also outright spawn BEHIND players in many cases. stalkers do not, at best they spawn separately from a pack and hope to hit them at about the same time from a different angle. there's a reason you rarely get torn up by a stalker, you see them coming because they approach from your loving front. my overall suggestion is basically to treat the stalker like the gorefast to the crawler's clot. have them spawn together, attack together, spawn the stalker in fewer numbers but give her a damage bonus for hitting players in the back. if you need to hunch her over even more to make her harder to spot then fine, but to start out with let's just change spawn behavior and give her let's say a 50% damage bonus for popping someone in the rear end and see where that goes.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:01
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Call me crazy, but I always thought good balance was achieved in horde shooters by having trash that your weapons can easily dispatch of, and then introducing new enemy variants that approach from different angles, or are strong enough to take attention away from the trash, which then begins to pile up the more time your team has to invest into looking at the big dudes.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:09
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Coolguye posted:crawlers also outright spawn BEHIND players in many cases. stalkers do not, at best they spawn separately from a pack and hope to hit them at about the same time from a different angle. there's a reason you rarely get torn up by a stalker, you see them coming because they approach from your loving front. Coolguye posted:Wow so I wrote a thing and apparently a moderator has to approve my post even though my account dates back to loving 2010 lol
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Jun 29, 2016 04:11
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I am rapidly losing hope in this game.quote:When it came to kf2 project it was for me a dream project that the team and myself could try to take the concept of kf1 and take it to the next level. Sounds like they want KF to just not be KF for whatever reason. Alteisen fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 05:10
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It's those key words "Improved over the first game" that seems to be where they keep backsliding. Despite how much much they and the players blessed by their moderators seem to assume they are making improvements at this rate  I miss when KF2 needed less of a wiki, not more, than KF1 to "Play right"
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Jun 29, 2016 05:54
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i think the main problem here is Kf1 was so loving fun. They nailed the whole desperation aspect of wave based FPS. They had the genie in the bottle. then they let it out. Now they wont admit it. It's loving dumb. When you have a good formula enhance the formula. dont write a loving new one.
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Jun 29, 2016 06:22
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I love how that post reveals the moon logic Tripwire uses to balance the game. Question: You want to buff an invisible enemy to make her more like the threat you imagined her to be. Do you: A. Buff her damage and give her a back damage multiplier towards players. This encourages players to stay aware of her and to kill her early so that she doesn't get close and nick you in the back. B. Increase her health so that she isn't so easily killed. That gives her a better chance at getting close to the player and wrecking havok on their lines. C. Make the skinny and butt-naked 5 foot tall woman walk off everything except assault rifle rounds. D. Both A and B. If you picked A, B, or D, then you're a normal game developer. If you picked C, then Tripwire is interested in interviewing you for a job position for their gameplay division.
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Jun 29, 2016 07:53
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So is this game still a content wasteland?
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Jun 29, 2016 07:54
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Apparently they nerfed money gains now? Can anyone confirm?
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Jun 29, 2016 08:25
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Reallycoolname posted:KF1 is infinitely superior because there were modders that realised that people play games for fun instead of ~epic video game survival stories~ Weird e/n stream of consciousness tangent: I have 1300 hours in KF1 (no other game in my collection comes close in terms of playtime. ~350 hrs is the next closest) because of these Japanese servers. I probably got to 200ish hours vanilla, then found a set of Japanese servers that allowed for 15 players (which was just right in terms of having fun with more people vs. having way too many people running around), had all of the BF1942 voice commands in all languages, and a buttload of crazy rear end enemy/weapon/map/player skin changes like the one displayed in that video. I really enjoyed my time on those servers. Everyone would go out of their way to heal you with the syringe, like to the point of OCD, and everyone dumped their cash whenever possible, there was no poo poo talking or trolling (as far as I could tell), and map voting was something of a "if someone picks one right away, they must really want to play it so we'll all vote for it too" affair. Very...Japanese? Nevertheless, really pleasant people to play with. Also, the way they set up the game was fuckin' hard. It was so rare to see us finish off the patriarch because he was so god drat hard. The penultimate wave was an easy one to wipe on too. Maybe that's part of what made it fun to play; never being able to completely and utterly dominate the game. My tiny friends list is dominated by people I've meet through these servers and I've even had the chance to get to know a few of them better. Alas, the server population eventually bottomed out after a good, long run. All four of the servers are still up, but are merely shadows of their former selves. Seeing that linked video really made me wish I could return to a time when those servers were bustling again. thanks for reading about my anime adventure
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Jun 29, 2016 08:27
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Alteisen posted:Apparently they nerfed money gains now? There was a patch that lowered money gain on long games and increased it on short games. There was nothing else in the patch notes, no matter how desperately I wish each update notification to start with "removed bullshit resistance system." Athropos posted:So is this game still a content wasteland? They released Sharpshooter fairly recently, so don't expect another content update for another 4-5 months. Oh, and they made Hans fun, at the expense of making the rest of the game un-fun.
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Jun 29, 2016 08:32
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quote:There was a patch that lowered money gain on long games and increased it on short games. For what purpose. 
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Jun 29, 2016 08:32
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Alteisen posted:For what purpose. It tested well internally!
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Jun 29, 2016 08:33
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Alteisen posted:For what purpose. They said people earned too much on long and not enough on short. Which I actually agree with, but medium also doesn't earn enough money which they ignored.
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Jun 29, 2016 08:36
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closeted republican posted:I love how that post reveals the moon logic Tripwire uses to balance the game. From a systems point of view B and C do the exact same thing only with C you have an out to give stalkers a weakness and a strength; if she takes X number of bullets to kill her it doesn't matter if that's from HP, resists, whatever, it's still X number of bullets to kill her. From an implementation point of view she was way too tanky and was too strong against too much but she got toned down a lot. The intention was B with thoughts towards A.
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Jun 29, 2016 09:47
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AF posted:thanks for reading about my anime adventure I used to play on an L4D server that was similar, it was so much fun. I found a couple of modded servers in KF1 but nothing like this. I play mostly on a modded KF2 server now that while not as outright crazy as this, adds a lot of monsters (in particular the ones from alien swarm and zombies from half life 2, amongst other things) and a sort of weird RPG style levelling up thing where you get points to buy various upgrades. Wracking up 150 headshots in a row using severly upgraded shooting speed and the unlimited ammo in bullet time perk so you could gib Scrakes and Fleshpounds with your magnums Was sweet! then the resistances update hit and I dunno if it affected the server directly or the modders are just trying to get the variables right but everything's a super bullet sponge now even at level 120 gunslinger so I dunno if even the wacky mods can help the game now..
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Jun 29, 2016 10:36
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closeted republican posted:The head dev posted this wall of text on the official forums: this game will never be fixed if this is how the devs think sad
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Jun 29, 2016 10:43
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The more this goes on, the more I'm thinking I should abandon ever getting KF2 and just reinstall 1.
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Jun 29, 2016 11:36
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How make Stalker a threat without making fighting her feel like poo poo: Give her an AI that flanks around the players. How to make Stalker a threat but fighting her feels like poo poo: Make the naked invisible woman have a poo poo-ton of hitpoints. This isn't rocket science people.
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Jun 29, 2016 13:06
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I want to play this game and I've been waiting for like 1.5 years for a really good reason to sink time into it. It just isn't coming I guess.
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Jun 29, 2016 14:01
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I got two PM requests to post my critique of the dev post on TWI's forums, because it's been a good day or so now and it looks like it ain't gonna show up. Here it is:quote:
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Jun 29, 2016 23:47
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I think it's the last sentence, it's a not so subtle burn. Also goddamn gently caress whoever thought that the long game money nerf was neccessary. Am I meant to carry one weapon at a time? Cause as a Support, a class usually swimming in Dosh, it's all I can manage - sell and upgrade. Only on the boss I could fill up my AA12, armor and Bewmstick. Goddamn it's such a chore now. Kikas fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 23:55
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if someone honestly gets offended at something like that all i can say is i had thicker skin than them in the 3rd loving grade
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Jun 29, 2016 23:58
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If you guys could just stay here and keep writing fanfic about the devs' plans, I think everyone would have a better time, including me. Also FWIW I almost never played on HoE even before the resistance system debacle. Once you are on Suicidal and "You must have these party members to save TPKs," the message is clear. Hot take: Medic is a dumb class and has never actually brought anything good to this game.
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Jun 30, 2016 00:07
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healing as a whole is kinda awkward in this game it's a little bit like the designated Slagger in high level play of Borderlands 2. essentially, one person in your group is saying 'ok, i will willingly have less fun so everyone else can have more fun.' auto-aim darting is boring, but the auto-aim is sort of required due to janky hitting on allies and all that other stuff. on the other hand, the basic syringe people get, even if buffed to be worth a drat, suffers from the same jankiness problems that however many years and two iterations of the game haven't solved, so that's not happening. it could ostensibly be solved if you just sort of expected everyone to carry medic weapons (which people SORT OF do already), but that's in essence adding a fun tax to everyone on higher levels. better defense is always more valuable than better offense in these horde games so people WILL be expected to carry whatever medic weapon de jure is out there, which basically means anyone with a good and fun 15 block weight build right now is no longer functional. it's a weird problem and i'm not exactly sure how i would make it more fun. the One Weird Trick that comes to mind is to replace all healing/the medic class with deployable medical hubs that heal people at a decent clip around them for however many seconds. ideally they would be balanced so super heavy zed spawns like FP/Scrake or 2 FP would force the team to move and regroup afterward for a bit, because that too is something that is missing in the game right now; at the high end, people optimize the One Good Spot on each map and camp there until Hans or Big Daddy Paddy come by, which is lame.
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Jun 30, 2016 00:17
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I would have doors respawn, and you have to move around the map to get the medkits or whatevers. So you're encouraged to run around and try to block the horde while licking your wounds. Doors are loving pointless right now
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Jun 30, 2016 00:23
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