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Tiggum posted:This isn't 100% on topic but it is related, and it was too good not to share: I didn't know Jorge Luis Borges was still writing.
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Jun 22, 2016 08:22
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Groke posted:Yah, I haven't read that series but have been following the one that begins with A Cavern of Black Ice and it's pretty great although she's putting us through a GRRM-like amount of waiting for the next (and final?) book. Six years and counting... (unlike GRRM, though, she doesn't spend all the time blogging about football or whatever, she more or less drops off the surface of the Internet instead.) Heh the more I think about it though there's so many JV Jones quotes that would be very welcome in this thread. Wizards pissing themselves because casting a too powerful spell puts too much pressure on your bladder, long descriptions of a sadistic archbishop torturing his assistant while slobbering over his lunch, a long description of grinding up bones to bleach paper, a knight screwing a prostitute that reminds him of his sister he abandoned (and I think the book hints slightly there's a small chance it could be her) and that's just what I remember off the top of my head.
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Jun 22, 2016 09:58
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Lamprey Cannon posted:Double-gently caress the sequel. So, allegedly, according to Brian Herbert, his dad left a lock-box full of notes on what he wanted to do with Dune 7. Heretics and Chapterhouse allude to some force on the edges of the Galaxy that was driving the Honoured Matres back into the old empire, so there was a lot of speculation as to what it might be. Fuckin', it's the robots. It's the loving robots. So there. Now, at the end of Chapterhouse, the uber-Duncan Idaho who remembers all of his past clone-lives, and some other people, escape on a big ol' spaceship. In 'Hunters of Dune', it turns out that somebody has a null-capsule full of DNA samples from all the major characters of the original Dune novels! So we loving clone everybody. Paul Atreides is there, both Letos are there, the whole loving gang. Remember what I said about having to shoehorn in everything that was in the originals? Meanwhile, the villains of the story (who at the get-go seem to be the face-morphing people that the Tleilaxu keep cloning) have their own one of these null-capsules, so they clone their own Baron Harkonnen, and make themselves an Evil Paul Atreides, that the Baron will raise up to be super evil. Meanwhile, you know how the Tleilaxu have been trying to make synthetic spice for 5000 years, and never succeeded? Somebody gets the idea to, instead of cloning the spice, clone the sandworms. Apparently, nobody ever ever thought of this. And it works! They genetically engineer sandworms that actually like water, call them seaworms, and set them to work on some planet. There they make ultra-spice, which is like regular spice but a billion times more potent! gently caress you Kevin Anderson and/or Brian Herbert. So, the face-dancers spring their plan, but the plan fails because actually they've been played by the actual villains, the robots! The stupid robots are back from the edges of the galaxy with a gigantic fleet. How did they manage to turn a radio signal into an actual physical robotic device? Who the gently caress cares! Then the lady from the prequels who invented the warp drive and the Bene Gesserit and the guild navigators shows up and blips all the robots out of existence. That's it. I cannot think of another example in all of fiction of a better example of a Deus Ex Machina. Oh, then to wrap everything up in a nice bow, the evil Paul Atreides eats some of the ultra-spice, so he can become God or whatever, and he gets trapped in a vision of the universe, starting at the big bang, evolving to the present second, and then starting over. So he takes a bunch of drugs and goes catatonic, basically. That's it. That's your story. Night night. I finally got around to finishing Sandworms of Dune this week, and it's just about as poo poo as told here. Bonus points in that there's 2 deus ex machina happening, first the lady from the prequels(now starring as the Oracle of Time, never mentioned before in the original books) takes the evil computer mind to another dimension where he can never do harm again, then the remaining sentient robot just literally NODDING HIS HEAD causing all the Face-dancers to die because they were designed with a killswitch. Then Duncan Idaho gets all of the robot's powers to unite the galaxy and here's your happy end, nobody's gonna die anymore. Also, the Baron is portrayed with all the loving care and feeling usually reserved for a Captain Planet villain. He literally kills a kitten earlier on(asking for a new pet because the previous one "broke"), and is described as loving pollution and machines and hating nature. His first order of business when they dump him on Caladan? Get some good old machinery and pollution going! Hell, it's not even for any reason other than "I hate plantlife and clean air, let's pollute". Not to mention all the characters that get casually killed off as soon as they serve their purpose of furthering whatever wafer-thin plot element they're part of. The two books really read like some bad fanfic of someone who desperately wants the original cast back and turn Duncan Idaho into some kind of god.
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Jun 28, 2016 20:46
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Norma Cenva was mentioned exactly one time in God Emperor of Dune, in passing by Leto II about how Tio Holzmann stole her designs and that's really it. Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert are terrible authors and I can't believe they got away with ruining something as seminal as Dune.
Vanderdeath has a new favorite as of 21:30 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 21:27
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It's not even that, it's just a line about how she gave her husband the designs for the first Guild ship. Tio Holzmann doesn't even get a mention. I think this line defines just how terrible the non-Frank Herbert Dune books(all 13 of them so far) are: "I threw a baby off a balcony once. The consequences were extreme." Said by the independent robot Erasmus, this event apparently being the cause of the whole Butlerian Jihad.
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Jun 28, 2016 22:15
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Smoke posted:I finally got around to finishing Sandworms of Dune this week, and it's just about as poo poo as told here. Bonus points in that there's 2 deus ex machina happening, first the lady from the prequels(now starring as the Oracle of Time, never mentioned before in the original books) takes the evil computer mind to another dimension where he can never do harm again, then the remaining sentient robot just literally NODDING HIS HEAD causing all the Face-dancers to die because they were designed with a killswitch. Then Duncan Idaho gets all of the robot's powers to unite the galaxy and here's your happy end, nobody's gonna die anymore. Also tleilaxu farts. What annoys me most about the Baron is how Dune is very careful to show that he's not a completely incoherent hedonistic monster, he's a very careful and rational hedonistic monster. There's that fantastic conversation he has with Feyd that is essentially "now I love rape and murder as much as you do, maybe even more, but every now and then you need to stop raping, act like a sensible human being, and do something useful. Now to prove my point, let's go murder your favourite concubine". Same deal as Roose + Ramsay Bolton. Duncan kwisatz haderach-ing himself was pretty cool though, and I think was started in Chapterhouse
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Jun 28, 2016 22:15
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I thought the original dune was just ok. Can't imagine what I'd think of the non Herbert books. Not that I'm really one to speak since in a wheel of time fan. Though at least in that case the guy who finished the series put it back on the rails
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Jun 28, 2016 23:42
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Good gods; Wheel of Time - I'd forgotten about that series. I think I gave up at book 8 or 9 after realising that I could not give two hoots whether or not the whole cast lived or died. They were all so irritating in their own unique ways - and half the time the plot only staggered onwards because someone suddenly decided to be ridiculously obtuse. But you say that the guy who took over was better? Maybe I'll finish it off.
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Jun 29, 2016 14:40
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Mr Toes posted:Good gods; Wheel of Time - I'd forgotten about that series. I think I gave up at book 8 or 9 after realising that I could not give two hoots whether or not the whole cast lived or died. They were all so irritating in their own unique ways - and half the time the plot only staggered onwards because someone suddenly decided to be ridiculously obtuse. That was my thought, although I remember exactly when I gave up: about halfway through the prologue of 11, which if I recall correctly was the last Jordan book. Good thing I got it from the library instead of buying it.
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Jun 29, 2016 14:49
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I was pleasantly surprised by how it all wrapped up in the end. Mind you, I've forgotten most of it now so it can't have been that amazing.
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Jun 29, 2016 16:27
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Mr Toes posted:Good gods; Wheel of Time - I'd forgotten about that series. I think I gave up at book 8 or 9 after realising that I could not give two hoots whether or not the whole cast lived or died. They were all so irritating in their own unique ways Unique ways? There are only three or four character templates in the entire series.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:05
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NLJP posted:I was pleasantly surprised by how it all wrapped up in the end. Mind you, I've forgotten most of it now so it can't have been that amazing. The ending was pretty cool, with all the named characters going out in heroic ways, the conga line of duels, the crazed wizard aiel out of nowhere, volcano portals, RTS windows, zombie bait n switch, dream teleporting and death laser catching. Course, none of that was relevant to anything, because Rand was busy having a poorly thought out metaphysical struggle with the devil.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:16
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Mr Toes posted:Good gods; Wheel of Time - I'd forgotten about that series. I think I gave up at book 8 or 9 after realising that I could not give two hoots whether or not the whole cast lived or died. They were all so irritating in their own unique ways - and half the time the plot only staggered onwards because someone suddenly decided to be ridiculously obtuse. The plot in there moved so slowly - for example Bowl of Winds (in my country each book was split in two - this is one of the parts for Crown of Swords) described the events happening within 2 days through 500 pages. In the end I've not finished the series (I'm on Towers of Midnight), which I need to rectify at some point, but eh... When I was a kid, I really liked Stainless Steel Rat by Harry Harrison - unfortunately, however, we had only the second part of the series. Well - recently I found other parts on my brothers kindle, and I truly wish I've not. So, from this: quote:The Stainless Steel Rat gets married, but rapidly gets involved in something that so far has proven impossible in the galaxy - the planet Cliaand has successfully been invading other worlds. Jim is sent to infiltrate and investigate, and discovers the mysterious gray Men behind Cliaand's success, encounters a world of feisty warrior women, and becomes father of twins (James and Bolivar). which is a very interesting approach to conquering worlds (it's economically infeasible) and a main character that is relying on, well, blowing stuff up, being unpredictable and generally coming up with most absurd plans, we get to this: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/64398.The_Stainless_Steel_Rat_Joins_the_Circus posted:Same as in one on previous reviews: fan of the Stainless Steel Rat and Death World series, felt compulsion to find another good book in the SSR series. No luck.  And seeing mention of Dune reminds me of another series - Foundation: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/566429.Foundation_s_Fear posted:Reasons I didn't like the book:
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Jun 29, 2016 20:16
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canis minor posted:And seeing mention of Dune reminds me of another series - Foundation: http://ansible.uk/sfx/sfx067.html posted:A recent surprise contender is Gregory Benford, who took up the challenge of writing a new Isaac Asimov "Foundation" novel despite having said about the originals, "I couldn't read those even when I was a teenager. They just didn't seem true or real; my memory is of saying, This is obviously not the way things would be."
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Jun 29, 2016 21:26
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And that isn't even mentioning the thing that's the titular 'Foundation's Fear', in that there are aliens living inside the Trantor computer network. They gave up their physical forms and uploaded themselves to their second life accounts, or something, because humans were going to bulldoze their planet. I don't think they even show up until the last fifty pages, and then they don't really *do* anything.
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Jun 29, 2016 22:15
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Lamprey Cannon posted:And that isn't even mentioning the thing that's the titular 'Foundation's Fear', in that there are aliens living inside the Trantor computer network. They gave up their physical forms and uploaded themselves to their second life accounts, or something, because humans were going to bulldoze their planet. I don't think they even show up until the last fifty pages, and then they don't really *do* anything. Jesus, anti-virus is just as lovely in the future as it is now.
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Jun 29, 2016 22:18
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Lamprey Cannon posted:And that isn't even mentioning the thing that's the titular 'Foundation's Fear', in that there are aliens living inside the Trantor computer network. They gave up their physical forms and uploaded themselves to their second life accounts, or something, because humans were going to bulldoze their planet. I don't think they even show up until the last fifty pages, and then they don't really *do* anything. Kind of odd choice seeing as a big part of Asimov's later Foundation books is the plot point that R Daneel Olivaw and the other robots hand picked an alternate universe for humans to live in where they were the only advanced form of life in the Milky Way.
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Jun 30, 2016 01:06
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canis minor posted:And seeing mention of Dune reminds me of another series - Foundation: So they stole the plot from Overdrawn at the Memory Bank?
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Jun 30, 2016 01:16
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 It's just bizarre to me to read that when there's literally a book in the original trilogy called Second Foundation while now apparently there's another trilogy referred to as the Second Foundation Trilogy which I'm guessing doesn't actually have anything to do with said Second Foundation  And maybe i'm missing something but I always liked the fact that Hari Seldon in the novels, outside of them talking to his hologram and referencing his plans, was only a player in the first few chapters of the first book. It gives him a real air of mystery and you can see the reverence people have for him hundreds of years later without needing to detail a backstory. Tracula has a new favorite as of 15:37 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 15:34
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Tracula posted:It's just bizarre to me to read that when there's literally a book in the original trilogy called Second Foundation while now apparently there's another trilogy referred to as the Second Foundation Trilogy which I'm guessing doesn't actually have anything to do with said Second Foundation It's also confusing, because you'd think the second trilogy would directly follow the first trilogy, but actually Asimov wrote seven books in total, including two prequels.
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Jul 2, 2016 07:40
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The_White_Crane posted:UNITED STATES OF JAPAN Heads up, It's a deal of the day on kindle today
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Jul 2, 2016 12:51
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Aww I was a really big fan of the Myth adventures series as a kid, I'd like to read them again but I guess it won't live up to my memories.
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Jul 2, 2016 17:26
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As someone who read them in middle school and high school, then again in grad school: no. Still much better than rereading the Xanth novels.
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Jul 2, 2016 17:53
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Xanth. I read an embarrassing number of those in grade school and high school (though any amount is embarrassing really) and then didn't think about them for a long time. Looking back, holy poo poo those books were garbage. Rapey, pedophilic, panty-obsessed garbage. The puns were not remotely the worst thing about them. And I never even read Anthony's other stuff, which was even more those things. Other horrible embarrassing things I read as a stupid child: A bunch of Orson Scott Card. Both short story volumes, the first four Ender books, the Homecoming Earth series, Homebody, Lost Boys, Treasure Box, Enchantment, Songbird (ugh), Hart's Hope (UGH) and a weird-rear end short story called To Break A Butterfly,  . I also read his how to write scifi and fantasy book, in which he admits ripping off lots of ideas from his students. The Abyss novelization is ok I guess. Based off an idea by a student.Also way too many Star Trek TNG novels. The Aurian books by Maggie Furey. Some of the Dragonriders of Pern books. Both full of rape. Bunch of Robert Asprin. Pretty much everything up to that point in the 90s when he stopped writing for awhile due to horrible tax problems. I swear, these books would be totally unknown if so many of us dumb kids didn't think they were great at the time. Also I have this version of All My Sins Remembered  Haldeman is great but he got a lot of bad seventies art on his books.
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Jul 5, 2016 04:04
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Croisquessein posted:Also I have this version of All My Sins Remembered Holy poo poo, there's a book floating around my parents' house back in Portland called "Tomorrow and Beyond" and it was a huge compilation of 70s scifi art. In that book I saw this exact picture completely out of context, and it makes me wonder what other bizarre poo poo in that book was on the covers of weird/bad scifi novels.
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Jul 5, 2016 08:48
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The_White_Crane posted:UNITED STATES OF JAPAN Man, I wish 'Don't judge a book by its cover' wasn't in play so hard here, because that cover is 
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Jul 5, 2016 09:04
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Hitmage posted:Holy poo poo, there's a book floating around my parents' house back in Portland called "Tomorrow and Beyond" and it was a huge compilation of 70s scifi art. In that book I saw this exact picture completely out of context, and it makes me wonder what other bizarre poo poo in that book was on the covers of weird/bad scifi novels. Probably all of them. Pretty sure most scifi of the 70s had some random weird painting on its cover which had no connection to the content of the book.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:19
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The 70's Sci Fi art blog is a great repository of covers.
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Jul 6, 2016 00:58
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Croisquessein posted:Probably all of them. Pretty sure most scifi of the 70s had some random weird painting on its cover which had no connection to the content of the book. The thing that really struck me about the Sad Puppies - and it’s something I haven’t seen anyone else note, so I’ll bother telling you - was Brad Torgerson’s lament that he could no longer tell from the cover of a science fiction novel what it was about. No, really: a grown man, who purported to write books for money, lamented that he could no longer literally judge a book by its cover: quote:The book has a spaceship on the cover, but is it really going to be a story about space exploration and pioneering derring-do? Or is the story merely about racial prejudice and exploitation, with interplanetary or interstellar trappings? And I thought “you knob, you weren’t buying loving books at all in the seventies and eighties were you.” Do you know how generic the art on seventies SF paperbacks was. It might have a space station on it and actually be completely earthbound. An Asimov about bureaucratic political intrigue in a single room having spaceships shooting curiously visible energy beams at each other. (and not to mention the Asimov NON-FICTION book wih a giant killer robot on the cover. I forget which one, one of his F&SF essay collections.) Frequently, the publishers literally bought the art in separately and slapped it on any book that happened to need a cover that month. The covers never had any loving relation to the contents. They might as well have been labeled “extruded SF product”. What the gently caress are you blathering on about you insufferable gobshite. Look at this poo poo. I want Torgerson's summary of each of those books purely from what’s right there. The Sad Puppies’ particular backstab myth extended to this degree of just making bullshit up. And they wonder why everyone hates them.
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Jul 6, 2016 08:34
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I think this pretty much sums it up:quote:SF/F literature seems almost permanently stuck on the subversive switcheroo. If we’re going to do a Tolkien-type fantasy, this time we’ll make the Orcs the heroes, and Gondor will be the bad guys. Space opera? Our plucky underdogs will be transgender socialists trying to fight the evil galactic corporations. War? The troops are fighting for evil, not good, and only realize it at the end. Planetary colonization? The humans are the invaders and the native aliens are the righteous victims. Yadda yadda yadda. Translated: "I don't want my ingrained views to be challenged by a book, and I am completely oblivious to the fact that science fiction highlights current issues through the lens of future fantasy. I just want mindless pew pew space guns action." KozmoNaut has a new favorite as of 09:22 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 09:20
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divabot posted:The thing that really struck me about the Sad Puppies - and it’s something I haven’t seen anyone else note, so I’ll bother telling you - was Brad Torgerson’s lament that he could no longer tell from the cover of a science fiction novel what it was about. Exactly. loving Ursula K. Leguins's books have generic space opera covers (watch out patriarchy, there's sjws in these books!). One of my favorites is the original cover for Haldeman's The Forever War  It's forever, see? Clocks illustrate the concept of time passing. Haldeman remarks on how dumb his covers were in one of the newer editions. E: I also read a bunch of the Lovecraftian fiction compilations put out by Chaosium, and those were bad. Talk about not getting Lovecraft. I mean HPL had his severe faults, but the writing in these things was either obsessed with cyclopean gibbering unnamables or just full on rape. I kept reading them because I had read all of the Lovecraft and all the good Lovecraftian fiction compilations (the Del Rey ones with the Palencar illustrations and a few others) and it just never panned out. What junk. Croisquessein has a new favorite as of 09:33 on Jul 6, 2016 |
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Jul 6, 2016 09:20
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divabot posted:The thing that really struck me about the Sad Puppies - and it’s something I haven’t seen anyone else note, so I’ll bother telling you - was Brad Torgerson’s lament that he could no longer tell from the cover of a science fiction novel what it was about. Buahahah - I don't know if I've ever read a book where the cover would correspond to content in any way, especially given that polish covers are... unique, to the point where you can't tell what genre it is. For example:  The Ringworld Engineers by Larry Niven is about a bunch of aliens that go back to titular ring world (artificial world in shape of a ring). Yup, totally grasped the content in the cover.  The Guns of Avalon by Roger Zelazny is a medieval fantasy; there's definitely no frogs (?) battling for control over a motherboard (?)  Foundation and Foundation and Imperium by Isaac Asimov Sorry - there's one exception - Terry Pratchett book covers, produced by Zombie Sputnik Corporation:  In this case - Wyrd Sisters
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Jul 6, 2016 13:34
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I think we got those Terry Pratchet covers here in the UK. I recognised Wyrd Sisters from the art.
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Jul 6, 2016 14:05
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Yeah we did, I'm pretty sure Josh Kirby did all of the discworld covers (and Pratchetts non-discworld stuff) up until Kirby died. The big trend in fantasy novel covers the last few years has been to put Whiteguy Darkcloak on the cover, regardless on what the protagonist is supposed to actually look like.
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Jul 6, 2016 14:11
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canis minor posted:Terry Pratchett book covers I hate those covers so much. Terry Pratchett posted:Now, there is a tendency at a point like this to look over one’s shoulder at the cover artist and start going on at length about leather, tight boots and naked blades. Words like ‘full’, ‘round’ and even ‘pert’ creep into the narrative, until the writer has to go and have a cold shower and a lie down. Which is all rather silly, because any woman setting out to make a living by the sword isn’t about to go around looking like something off the cover of the more advanced kind of lingerie catalogue for the specialized buyer. Terry Pratchett posted:Look at him. Scrawny, like most wizard, and clad in a dark red robe on which a few mystic sigils were embroidered in tarnished sequins. Some might have taken him for a mere apprentice enchanter who had run away from his master out of defiance, boredom, fear and a lingering taste for heterosexuality. Yet around his neck was a chain bearing the bronze octagon that marked him as an alumnus of Unseen University  And that's before you even get into less objective stuff like everyone being yellow and malformed.
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Jul 6, 2016 14:33
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Tiggum posted:I hate those covers so much. I have a soft spot for the Kirby covers. At least they arent generic. I'm willing to admit that a lot of that is more because I love the books rather than on the artistic merits of the covers. Having said that, some are better than others, and you missed my favourite thing about that particular cover. The main characters from the book are all on the luggage. Rincewind, Bethan (You are right about that Pratchett quote compared to women in Kirbys work in general, but I always assumed that was Bethan on the cover), Cohen, Twoflower and... Actually for the last 20-odd years I've assumed that was Hrun, but now I actually think about it... Hrun was in The Colour of Magic, not the Light Fantastic, so I have no idea who that last guy is supposed to be. In my defence I've not reread the first 3 discworld books much. (As an aside, the series for me really finds its feet from Mort onwards, its when it becomes more its own thing rather than a setting which exists purely for sword and sourcery pastische). Anyway, what I was going to point out was; Look at Twoflower. If memory serves, in the books the inhabitants of Ankh Morpork have never seen eyeglasses before, and there is an extended aside about how he has "4 eyes", because he has an extra set that he puts on over his eyes to see better (his glasses). Apparently Kirby missed the joke there, because he has drawn Twoflower as literally having 4 eyes.
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Jul 6, 2016 14:54
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SiKboy posted:I have a soft spot for the Kirby covers. At least they arent generic. I'm willing to admit that a lot of that is more because I love the books rather than on the artistic merits of the covers. Having said that, some are better than others, and you missed my favourite thing about that particular cover. The main characters from the book are all on the luggage. Rincewind, Bethan (You are right about that Pratchett quote compared to women in Kirbys work in general, but I always assumed that was Bethan on the cover), Cohen, Twoflower and... Actually for the last 20-odd years I've assumed that was Hrun, but now I actually think about it... Hrun was in The Colour of Magic, not the Light Fantastic, so I have no idea who that last guy is supposed to be. In my defence I've not reread the first 3 discworld books much. (As an aside, the series for me really finds its feet from Mort onwards, its when it becomes more its own thing rather than a setting which exists purely for sword and sourcery pastische). I think that is supposed to be the Dwarf Jeweller they meet, that eventually makes Cohens false teeth. If I recall, he has to pack up and leave with them in a hurry, because the locals are threatening to linch him for being a Dwarf.
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Jul 6, 2016 15:42
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KozmoNaut posted:I think this pretty much sums it up: Bet he watched the twilight zone and missed all the "metaphor for the atomic bomb and related issues, fears and anxieties that followed" that was in pretty much every show. Catzilla posted:I think that is supposed to be the Dwarf Jeweller they meet, that eventually makes Cohens false teeth. If I recall, he has to pack up and leave with them in a hurry, because the locals are threatening to linch him for being a Dwarf. How bizarrely topical, especially with the Brexit.
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Jul 6, 2016 15:44
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The best Discworld cover is Night Watch doing a parody of Rembrandt's The Night Watch. 
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Jul 6, 2016 17:26
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It's a shame that the US edition got this much more minimal cover:
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Jul 6, 2016 17:32
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