|
Lex's plan itself is laid out better in this cut. Lex is still terrible though. The character that benefits most from this cut I'd say is Lois Lane. Amy Adams had to be wondering what they hell they did to her part when she saw the theatrical cut of the movie. X-O fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jun 28, 2016 |
#
?
Jun 28, 2016 23:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 03:12 |
|
|
X-O posted:Lex's plan itself is laid out better in this cut. Lex is still terrible though. Yeah, I mean if you didn't like the Lex character or Eisenberg in the theatrical cut, you likely still won't enjoy his performance in the Ultimate Cut. But at least you get a better sense of his motivation and how he was maniacally pulling strings and manipulating everyone.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2016 23:31
|
|
|
The funeral stuff at the end also benefited well from the small character moment additions, the problem is that the third act of the film is still a goddamn mess and none of that stuff actually feels earned in the storytelling. Everything before the actual Batman v Superman works a lot better now. Everything from there on is still a mess.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2016 23:34
|
|
|
X-O posted:The funeral stuff at the end also benefited well from the small character moment additions, the problem is that the third act of the film is still a goddamn mess and none of that stuff actually feels earned in the storytelling. Everything before the actual Batman v Superman works a lot better now. Everything from there on is still a mess. I agree. I shared pretty much the same sentiment in the Batman v Superman CineD thread. The build-up in the film is super solid in the Ultimate Edition, and sets the stage for the Batman/Superman fight really well. But yeah, the resulting payoff in the third act is still delivered in whoopee cushion fashion since it remained largely the same. Everything involving Wonder Woman is still awesome though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2016 23:42
|
|
|
It's clear from the cuts they just tossed out character moments and actual important scenes in the movie so that they could keep all the action in. Not surprising but still I wonder how they thought the movie worked like it did before. Like for instance the entire Africa/Bullet subplot in the movie. If they were going to cut that much integral stuff from it then why not cut the entire thing out? As it stands in the theatrical cut it feels completely unnecessary. When you see the Ultimate Edition though it becomes one of the more important subplots in the film and gives you character moments that were severely needed. I don't know why if you're going to cut that much out why you wouldn't just remove it all? Because it really doesn't work in the regular cut with so much missing. X-O fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jun 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2016 23:48
|
|
Travis343 posted:I think in order for a directors cut of BvS to magically become a good movie they'd have to do cut it down and not just add stuff. The movie was already too long, just like Man of Steel was, and now it's three hours. Most of the stuff they're adding should have been in the movie to begin with but there was at least half an hour of stuff that didn't need to be there already. Yeah, like Doomsday.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2016 07:09
|
|
|
You can't lose Doomsday without losing Wonder Woman and if you do that the movie's not worth watching in any capacity, though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2016 12:55
|
|
|
Oh, here's a question: Does Superman actually talk to Wonder Woman at all in this cut? Because if not, what the gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2016 15:45
|
|
|
MrAristocrates posted:Oh, here's a question: Does Superman actually talk to Wonder Woman at all in this cut? He talks to her in the theatrical cut, if just for a single line. WW says "This creature seems to feed on energy" and Supes responds "This creature is from another world, my world." WW replies "I've killed things from other worlds before."
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2016 15:50
|
|
|
To be fair there's not a lot of downtime during the fight for them to have any kind of conversation.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
Did they fix it where Batman goes "Oh, oh yeah I emailed her, sorry I forgot."
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2016 20:28
|
|
|
Sounds like WB hosed up royally with jumpstarting the DC Cinematic Universe. I'm sure a movie that was just a letdown in the later fights rather than a nigh-incomprehensible clusterfuck would have done much better. It's a lot easier to suspend disbelief and forgive issues if you're at least entertained.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
Unfortunately it really is hard to justify released a three hour $250M superhero movie in first run. I think it would have made less money even being a better film overall. The problem lies in letting it be bloated enough to need that kind of runtime in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2016 22:10
|
|
|
Yeah, I doubt even the fixed version is good enough to justify that runtime, which might be the reason I'm most apprehensive about seeing it again. Even if this version of this story "needs" to be this long, there's almost certainly a better story that doesn't.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2016 22:15
|
|
|
Good points. Still, from the "building a universe" perspective, even a movie that made less money might have been better if it left people with a better taste in their mouths. Good will goes a long way towards building an audience.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2016 22:16
|
|
|
X-O posted:Unfortunately it really is hard to justify released a three hour $250M superhero movie in first run. I think it would have made less money even being a better film overall. The problem lies in letting it be bloated enough to need that kind of runtime in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2016 22:53
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:This is exactly why Marvel didn't start with Avengers. It would have been like 5 hours long. X-Men avoided that problem though. BvS is bloated because it's bloated, not because having three protagonists and two antagonists inherently requires some massively convoluted plot.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 00:53
|
|
Travis343 posted:You can't lose Doomsday without losing Wonder Woman and if you do that the movie's not worth watching in any capacity, though. Wonder Woman's scenes may have been entertaining but she had no business being in the film at all.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 01:07
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Wonder Woman's scenes may have been entertaining but she had no business being in the film at all. She had no reason to be in the story, no, but it was all about business.  It sounds like they could have dropped Wonder Woman, dropped all the other superhero poo poo aside from a line here or there, and changed the Doomsday thing to a much lesser (but still significant) threat. Maybe just resurrect Zod or something? I don't know. But you could cut out all that poo poo, lay in a teaser or two for what's to come, save a big dramatic moment (the death of Superman) for later, and get it done in a compelling fashion in 2 hrs 15 minutes tops. I'd prefer something even shorter, but that's not the time we live in. Still, WB does this? Instead of blowing a huge wad of nonsense / 3 hours into theaters? They build up an audience of people interested in seeing what's next. The whole Marvel vs. DC thing is something that next to nobody cares about. People just want to see entertaining movies. And people want them to be fun, especially right now, when the real world is so loving dreary.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 01:54
|
|
|
Like half the MCU movies have characters with no business in them hanging around. It's fine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 01:58
|
|
|
I thought we were talking about ways to shorten the movie. I agree it's not a crime to have other characters lurking around.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 02:10
|
|
Aphrodite posted:Like half the MCU movies have characters with no business in them hanging around. It's fine. Yeah but see, those movies aren't bloated messes that make no sense. Falcon doesn't take valuable screen time away from Ant-man's plot and character motivations.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 02:16
|
|
|
At least 4 of them are.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 02:18
|
|
|
Recently I learned that pearl necklaces, at least good ones, have knots between each pearl, so if it does break, then you only loose like one. So either Thomas Wayne was super cheap, or not a single person who's drawn or filmed a Batman's Parents Dying scene (which is a lot) has any idea how things actually work.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 02:20
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Recently I learned that pearl necklaces, at least good ones, have knots between each pearl, so if it does break, then you only loose like one. So either Thomas Wayne was super cheap, or not a single person who's drawn or filmed a Batman's Parents Dying scene (which is a lot) has any idea how things actually work. They are literally all copying Frank Miller. Nobody is doing a pearl necklace scene on their own after 1986.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 02:21
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Recently I learned that pearl necklaces, at least good ones, have knots between each pearl, so if it does break, then you only loose like one. So either Thomas Wayne was super cheap, or not a single person who's drawn or filmed a Batman's Parents Dying scene (which is a lot) has any idea how things actually work. No knots leaves more space for pearls. That's how the rich do it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 02:23
|
|
|
I thought the stupidest thing was how the pearls get caught around the gun, and then the gun tightens - and then holds there for at least a second. As if the mugger was not just intentionally killing her - intentionally killing her and destroying her necklace at the same time. To make it more dramatic. That scene felt like a goth 12 year old directed it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 02:47
|
|
|
ashpanash posted:She had no reason to be in the story, no, but it was all about business. You know, they had a pale, dead, bowl cut rockin' Kryptonian - Do Bizzarro. He already hates Superman, just make the resurrection 1) Dumb him down and 2) Give him Kryptonite resistance/immunity. Now, Batman and Supes have a reason to team up. Go ahead and throw the Kryptonite spear away (because it's useless and now it makes sense to do so because it only hurts Superman). Plus, his neck is already broken, so you can just do away with the whole Of Mice and Men angle that started here. Maybe, have Supes try and throw him into the sun and Batman has to get the nuke out of there at the same time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:04
|
|
|
Travis343 posted:They are literally all copying Frank Miller. Nobody is doing a pearl necklace scene on their own after 1986. This is true. That's another thing that needs to retired from Batman films, anything done by Frank Miller. It can join the Joker and Waynes being murdered on the heap. You know I was watching Batman 89 not to long ago, and while the Joker's origin is movie specific, his behavior actually feels more like a classic Joker than any others. He's nuts, but not a slasher villain. There is this childish aspect to his menace. This is a Joker I could imagine stealing Christmas then trying to poison the whole city. Plus I never notice that his gang has Neil Adam's Joker faces on their jackets. I actually think Doomsday should have been Amazo. You get your big monster fight, its a known character, but you literally anything saying "oh yea, Superman is totally going to die here".
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:10
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Yeah but see, those movies aren't bloated messes that make no sense. Falcon doesn't take valuable screen time away from Ant-man's plot and character motivations. Age of Ultron absolutely is bloated to that extent. The Thanos stuff in GotG doesn't do anything but slow the film down and make him look less threatening.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:14
|
|
Aphrodite posted:At least 4 of them are. Haha, sure buddy. Even Age of Ultron looks like a lean, focused endeavor compared to BvS.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:19
|
|
|
I finally watched Age of Ultron earlier this month and it's nowhere near as terrible as the goon hivemind claims it is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:22
|
|
|
Doctor Spaceman posted:Age of Ultron absolutely is bloated to that extent. The Thanos stuff in GotG doesn't do anything but slow the film down and make him look less threatening. Sure. But they have a good track record. 4 slogs in their library isn't perfect but it's not like starting at the plate down 0-2. (To extend this metaphor into overuse, I get the feeling Suicide Squad will be more of a foul ball than a hit, doing just well enough to keep them at the plate.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:22
|
|
|
The more important point is that in direct comparison to BvS there are zero, absolutely no MCU films that are as much of convoluted overstuffed messes as BvS is. Not that there are no bloated MCU films, because jesus christ is Age of Ultron a goddamn disaster.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:25
|
|
|
BvS is bad but at least its failures are interesting to discuss. Thor 2 is a giant blank spot on the universe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:26
|
|
ImpAtom posted:BvS is bad but at least its failures are interesting to discuss. Thor 2 is a giant blank spot on the universe. I'd rather watch an enjoyable bland film than a lovely one.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:27
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I'd rather watch an enjoyable bland film than a lovely one. Thor 2 being enjoyable would involve it evoking any emotion at all. It is one of the blandest movies at all which is pretty insane considering the premise is THOR VS SPACE ELVES.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:29
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I'd rather watch an enjoyable bland film than a lovely one. In this case, though, to each their own, really. It's not worth fighting about.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:29
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Thor 2 being enjoyable would involve it evoking any emotion at all. It is one of the blandest movies at all which is pretty insane considering the premise is THOR VS SPACE ELVES. If you didn't find some of the action setpieces or Loki scenes entertaining the problem isn't with the film. Hell, Thor hanging Mjolnir on a coat hanger alone is a great gag.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 03:12 |
|
|
ImpAtom posted:BvS is bad but at least its failures are interesting to discuss. Thor 2 is a giant blank spot on the universe. The final act with the portals is great fun (eg Thor on the Underground), and there is some good Thor / Loki banter. It's not a great film though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2016 03:33
|
|