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Catsworth
Sep 30, 2009

Who doesn't wanna be Johnny Cat?

koolkevz666 posted:

Been following this since the beginning but I really wish Bioware would somehow read this

Oh don't worry, they are. Guess who's an upcoming possible companion?



Lookin' a bit red there, Atronie. :monocle:

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Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


The Light Side points for giving them empire the infinite army data might be based on the idea that Lana is one of those moderate Sith who'd use such a weapon for the betterment of the galaxy or something, otherwise that is a really strange decision. Although even that justification is pretty spotty at best. Also been watching this for quite a while and I've enjoyed it quite heavily. The personalised character voices really made this something special.

Paused
Oct 24, 2010
This is essentially echoing the stuff in the Mr Plinket reviews, but would it have been too much to ask for the unstable looking design of the lightsaber in Force Awakens to be a unique thing, and be a visual representation of its user rather than 'saber configuration number 3781 that has been around for millennia in both Jedi and Sith Orders as detailed in wookipedia article https://www.starwarsfans/fuckyou.bs'

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Lord_Magmar posted:

The Light Side points for giving them empire the infinite army data might be based on the idea that Lana is one of those moderate Sith who'd use such a weapon for the betterment of the galaxy or something, otherwise that is a really strange decision. Although even that justification is pretty spotty at best. Also been watching this for quite a while and I've enjoyed it quite heavily. The personalised character voices really made this something special.

Enjoy the characterization of Lana as a moderate, level-headed Sith while it lasts. >_>

Coq au Nandos
Nov 7, 2006

I think I would say to my daughters if they were to ask me this question... A shitpost is the greatest gift that you can give someone, the ultimate gift of giving and don't give it to someone lightly, that's what I would say.

Paused posted:

This is essentially echoing the stuff in the Mr Plinket reviews, but would it have been too much to ask for the unstable looking design of the lightsaber in Force Awakens to be a unique thing, and be a visual representation of its user rather than 'saber configuration number 3781 that has been around for millennia in both Jedi and Sith Orders as detailed in wookipedia article https://www.starwarsfans/fuckyou.bs'

It is a unique thing. Kylo Ren's saber is a homebuilt piece of poo poo. The crossguard saber in the game (and in Rebels) is a complete and finished item.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Paused posted:

This is essentially echoing the stuff in the Mr Plinket reviews, but would it have been too much to ask for the unstable looking design of the lightsaber in Force Awakens to be a unique thing, and be a visual representation of its user rather than 'saber configuration number 3781 that has been around for millennia in both Jedi and Sith Orders as detailed in wookipedia article https://www.starwarsfans/fuckyou.bs'

The galaxy has had millennia of stagnant technology. Everything has been invented, reinvented, lost, developed independently, discovered in a temple in the middle of nowhere, lost again, accidentially unleashed upon an unsuspecting galaxy...

Coq au Nandos
Nov 7, 2006

I think I would say to my daughters if they were to ask me this question... A shitpost is the greatest gift that you can give someone, the ultimate gift of giving and don't give it to someone lightly, that's what I would say.
I think I posted this in the MMO thread a while back (last time I went in on playing this) and some weird poo poo happens between the Old Republic era and 'modern' Star Wars, and the galaxy reverts to the Dark Ages for a while. Whether or not this is canon anymore is totally up to you at this point I think.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

SKY COQ posted:

I think I posted this in the MMO thread a while back (last time I went in on playing this) and some weird poo poo happens between the Old Republic era and 'modern' Star Wars, and the galaxy reverts to the Dark Ages for a while. Whether or not this is canon anymore is totally up to you at this point I think.

Eh, I try to bear in mind that Star Wars isn't science fiction for the most part, it's classical fantasy hiding under a thin veneer of spaceships and lasers. Fantasy settings where technology gets beyond the Middle Ages (at best, early Renaissance, before gunpowder and clocks and cross-oceanic travel become things) are rare, and the genre as a general rule has an intense antipathy towards science and invention. Star Wars is little different.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

PoptartsNinja posted:

It was pretty much the pattern straight out of early City of Heroes ( 3 mooks = 2 lieutenants / silvers = 1 boss / gold ) which is why it stands out to me since City of Heroes learned reasonably early that the 3/2/1 pyramid isn't all that great.

I think more games need to steal CoH's difficulty sliders (you could chose to fight normal encounters, set it to fight big groups with more minions, pairs or small groups of harder enemies, and even set how the enemies scaled in relation to you for added challenge). CoH could get away with that because it was heavily instanced (TOR is too, for missions at least), but CoH had mob group sizes scale the more people were in a group and TOR was never designed with that in mind.

Early TOR used a bunch of common MMO design themes without much regard as to why they were doing so at the time. All things considered they didn't do as badly as they might've, but they still fell short of the mark in some places.

It was really the scaling up that made CoH work, since even if you did instanced missions you'd occasionally encounter groups of -1 level spawning for +1 heroes. Or even -2/+2 in extreme cases. And they stacked the pyramid differently for different enemy groups, too. Some groups had sub-minions, which only counted for half a minion because they were weaker or disadvantaged in some way -- this is the Vahzilok and their hordes of zombies. The Button Men tended to favor hordes of mooks with one or two heavies, the Circle of Thorns would pop out single notable bosses for as little as two heroes.

Even though they largely dropped it for CoV and later, the overworld was its own difficulty slider - normal zones spat out groups for 1-3 heroes, hazard zones for 2-6, trial zones 5-8. Or something like that, anyway. It's... getting harder and harder to remember.

But yeah, actual hordes of dudes were possible with underlings, which were like four or five to the minion. ...or in certain more-story-than-plot mission, where you were playing either your invincible future self or some big-name hero from one side or another.

General Maximus
Jul 14, 2006
Standard models come in white labcoats for inexplicable reasons.

Glazius posted:

But yeah, actual hordes of dudes were possible with underlings, which were like four or five to the minion. ...or in certain more-story-than-plot mission, where you were playing either your invincible future self or some big-name hero from one side or another.

I still remember the one mission where you got to play as the current big bad of the setting and just go to town on people - except if you actually did, the whole instance came to a grinding halt cause the game engine wasn't designed to handle that many things dying at once. And this was in a game where 20-30 guys dying nearly simultaneously was a common occurrence.

koolkevz666
Aug 22, 2015
I have always felt that making the game challenging in missions was always second best to trying to write a story for each character class and for each world. Out of all the MMO games I have played SWTOR is by far my favourite. It is far from perfect but I still feel kind of unique while playing the game with my characters thanks to the instanced areas and story plot lines where as games like WoW always made me feel like just alliance or horde member number 540 etc. Not sure if anyone else feels like this.

Moon Slayer
Jun 19, 2007

koolkevz666 posted:

I have always felt that making the game challenging in missions was always second best to trying to write a story for each character class and for each world. Out of all the MMO games I have played SWTOR is by far my favourite. It is far from perfect but I still feel kind of unique while playing the game with my characters thanks to the instanced areas and story plot lines where as games like WoW always made me feel like just alliance or horde member number 540 etc. Not sure if anyone else feels like this.

ToR is the only MMO I've been able to stick with because of this very reason.

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat


Sith Warrior Shadows of Revan Update 12: At Least Someone Listened To Me



Click for Video (See if you can spot the flubbed line!)


Jakarro still wishes to confront the men who betrayed him and left us for dead. As would I, actually.
What the droid said! We are coming with you!



Subtle.


We Revanites went through a great deal of trouble to reach this point in our campaign. For you to hamper our progress, it’s…
Inconceivable?!
Expected?

regrettable.
You, Lana… you were never anything more than pawns to us. Important pawns, but pawns all the same.
Red pawn takes gray bishop.
If you speak another word, it had better involve what you and your Revanites are planning.
So, this is where I outline our grand design and then you decide whether or not to spare my life?

PTN’s note: Fun fact, Jakarro is going to spend the upcoming boss fight beating on Arkous with that gold pipe.
This grotesque alien beast does have it partly figured out. Indeed, I won’t cooperate.


If you could see what we were doing--what we want for the galaxy. But you can’t see. You’ll just have to die.

Was that a--?
Did he just--?
Kirk shoulder roll!






PTN’s note: I don’t have much to say about this fight. It’s a not-especially-interesting damage race, but at the same time Darth Arkous and Colonel Darok ‘pass the player agro’ back and forth, with one using some-sort of crowd control ability that theoretically puts the other at an advantage. Of course, in practice this doesn’t really work out--Arkous’s CC is dangerous and gives Darok a long stretch of time to unload on you, but Darok is a Trooper Vanguard and his only real CC abilities are a pull and a knockback that don’t really give Darth Arkous a chance to do anything cool. Which is why I killed Darok first. He’s a boring anchor dragging this fight down--but at the same time at least the devs were thinking about the boss mechanics and how they’d play off of each other, which is a pretty groundbreaking development for SW:TOR.






PTN’s note: This damage was all done by Droidy 4. Unfortunately, without Darok around to deal damage, Arkous stops using his crowd control powers and basically starts zapping away while he waits for death.





Impossible… it can’t be!
How could I, a Saiyan, lose?!














Which is why I suggested bombing this place from orbit.
I felt Darth Arkous’s passing. This is an unfortunate turn.
Not unfortunate for me! I got my revenge!
Yes, you did! What a relief!
Blast it! Those two were running the show. They were our best hope of exposing the Revanites.



Click for Video


We’ve got company! Ships. Capital-sized, whole bunch of them. Can’t tell if they’re yours or ours, but one of them’s dropping in to visit!
As important as Arkous and Darok were to the cause, their deaths won’t stop us. They won’t even slow us down.
That voice, I’ve heard it before.
As have I.




Oh, I was dead--for all of a blink.
A blink and a dance-party on your body.
Quiet, an adult is talking.

I’ve been reborn. My mind is clearer, my power intensified. And now, with the order under my command, I’m unstoppable.
You’re telling me the Revanites weren’t always under your control?
At first, I wanted nothing to do with them. I was no prophet. Then I saw them in a new light.
A secret group of devotees waiting to follow my lead without question? To help me save the galaxy? I was a fool to ever disregard them.

Turbolasers are locking on…! Get out of there!
I call foul on that punctuation. You can’t end an ellipsis with an exclamation mark.
Is this really the time?

I can’t think of a better time.
He got so busy talking he forgot to open fire, now his ship’s almost directly overhead.

He can’t depress his turbolasers enough to actually hit us.
But at least someone listened to me. It’s about time someone tried an orbital bombardment.


We can’t reach you in Jakarro’s ship! Take the shuttle!


























Click for Video


Theron: The way Revan was laying waste to that place, I wasn’t sure you’d come out of it in one piece.
What are you talking about? I’m hardly in one piece….
Switch off your speech processor, droid, before one piece is all that is left!
A fate worse than death.

We took care of Arkous, Darok, and their Infinite Army, but where does that leave us?
Theron: It’s a good question. Now we know Revan’s in the picture, everything changes--for the worse. In fact, it’s already started.
Whatever do you mean?
Theron: I’ll fill you in, Deefour. Come on, Jakarro, let’s give them a chance to talk.
Theron: Lana, when you’re done, we can start picking out backwaters to go lie low in.
Lana: Some good news: I was able to extract a good amount of data from the Infinite Army conscription console.

Lana: Jakarro’s had twelve death sentences declared on him, Theron’s been disavowed by the SIS… and the Empire’s placed a bounty on my head for the murder of Darth Arkous.

Lana: I appreciate that, Wrath, I do. But you can’t fight this.
Yes I can.
Lana: Our names can’t be cleared unless we expose the Revanites, and we can’t expose the Revanites without knowing who to expose.
Lana: The way forward is clear: Theron, Jakarro and I are going underground. We’ll find a way to uncover Revan’s plan and stop him.
Three fugitives on the run against a vast conspiracy that spans two galactic powers? Have you lost your mind?
Lana: I’m as lucid as ever and I say we can. You’ll have your own role to play in this, of course.
Namely as a big, un-ignorable distraction too powerful for the Revanites to quietly eliminate and too connected for them to discredit.
Lana: Precisely.






















Dolash
Oct 23, 2008

aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,


What, Revan is back?! Goodness! What a shocking revelation in this, the Shadow of Revan! For a guy whose last action was an attempt to exterminate all Sith and Imperials in the galaxy with an army of genocidebots, he's done well for himself to take charge of a pan-galactic conspiracy strong enough to put Darths and Republic special forces on the same side.

There hasn't been anything yet about the Revanite goals or motivation, right? Just that whatever they're doing involves major conspirators from each side and the players' efforts to uncover them provokes a huge backlash.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Dolash posted:

There hasn't been anything yet about the Revanite goals or motivation, right? Just that whatever they're doing involves major conspirators from each side and the players' efforts to uncover them provokes a huge backlash.

Yep. We'll eventually find out. Spoiler alert: it's retarded.

Gnome de plume
Sep 5, 2006

Hell.
Fucking.
Yes.
"Revan! But you died!"

"I got better."

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat
He was only mostly dead.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
The truth is much more stupid.

MightyPretenders
Feb 21, 2014

The truth could have been much better, with only slight tweaks required.

Dolash
Oct 23, 2008

aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,


MEANWHILE, IN THE PAST



Trooper Update 41 – Mop-up Detail



Ahh... that's the stuff.
That's the last of the resistance comm stations back up and running, sir.
Hm? Oh, right. Guess we should check back in with the techies.



It was a breeze.
Well, that was more than enough excitement for me. Good thing you were around.
Once the equipment came back up, Jalba had the bright idea of tapping Vik's communications like we do the Imps'. Listen to this.
-a dangerous mission, no doubt about it. To be honest, a lot of you probably won't make it back.



But we're not here for glory or credits – we're here to save Balmorra. Am I right?
I don't know if I can even watch this nonsense. Are you telling me your whole security force bought that line and followed Vik off to do who-knows-what?
Look, we're volunteers, not trained soldiers. For a lot of our guys, the chain of command is whoever sounds like they know what they're doing.
Step one is Sobrik – once we have what we need there, it will be a straight shot to our final objective.



Is there any way you can raise him on his holo?
No, he's smart enough to leave it off when he's not using it.
I know a guy, a major in the Republic Special Forces. Triam. He's been helping us out around Sobrik. I'll bet he could narrow down the search for you.





This planet really is a mess.
The long occupation has certainly left its scars, sir.
It's not just that. Everywhere you look, it's droids, blasters, walkers, shields, turrets... thrown around like childrens' toys. Enough war material for a hundred campaigns bottled up on this mudball.



Now I remember what you said about the Republic not helping out sooner, but the Mantellian separatists kept the whole Republic army at bay with small arms and a savvy multimedia team. If the Balmorrans had any idea how to use the stuff they're wasting they'd've freed themselves years ago.



Under the circumstances, the resistance has done well just lasting this long. Imperial occupation forces are not known for being lenient.
Please, a bunch of second-stringers commanded by people who couldn't cut it on the front line. Give me one formation of real soldiers and we could roll this whole planet.



Speaking of real soldiers, we better smarten up for the Major. Don't need any more trouble making its' way back to Garza.



I'm looking for a Weequay named Tanno Vik. Have you seen him?
Yeah. I've seen him.
That bad, huh?
You don't know the half of it. That lying filth “volunteered” to destroy some Imperial jammers in Sobrik. They're blocking the scan data from all our high-altitude probe droids.



I'm getting sick of cleaning up Vik's messes. And somehow I doubt this is the last one.
Aiding the resistance is a priority objective – we've got no choice.
You'll need detonite charges to bring the jammers down. Vik took the last of mine, so you'll have to do some scrounging.
The Imps have checkpoints scattered through Sobrik – they'll have explosives. Once you have enough charges, hit those jammers hard.
Consider those jammers scrap, sir.
Once the jammers are down and we start getting full aerial scans of Sobrik, we can pinpoint exactly where Vik took my explosives.





I swear, if that Weequay's going to drag us all over this mudball, we should at least get a decent fight out of it.







Piece of cake. But not nearly enough explosives.
Not enough, sir? Assuming the jamming stations are standard pattern Imperial-
The major said scrounge, Dorne, so that's what we're going to do!







Thaaat's more like it. And from the sound of those alarms somebody's already getting to work on Sobrik for us. That should make the next bit easier.
If the jammers are inside the city, do you have a plan for how we're to plant the detonite?
Of course.



Frontal assault!



Lot fewer guards on gate duty than I was expecting.
I don't think we're the first ones to blast our way into the city today, sir.
You're probably right. Now let's get out of the street and find some of those jammers, that detonite's burning a hole in my pocket.





Take care of the security, aaaand...



drat, what a let-down.
Is the size of the explosion really a priority, sir? The jammer has been successfully neutralized.
Practice makes perfect, Sergeant.



Okay, last one. Watch and learn.



Hah! How was that?
Very... theatric, sir.
We can workshop the look a little more before the Gauntlet assault once we pick up Vik. Speaking of...





All right, the aerial scans are coming in now... let's see if we can find that Weequay. Hm.
I'm seein signs of an explosive entry at the Imperial HQ, near the administrative office. We don't have any people in the area, so it's got to be Vik's handiwork.
Why would Vik attack Imperial headquarters?
Your guess is as good as mine. Somehow I doubt it's as heroic as it sounds.
Sounds more like the guy's got a deathwish to me.
Pardon, Captain, but we are currently standing in the open of an Imperial-occupied city-
Zip it, Sergeant.





Dead guards, sound of blasting... we can't be far behind now.
There's a lot of resistance and Republic action in the city right now, can you be sure this is our demolitionist?



Yeah, I've got a feeling.



Sithspit, those kills are fresh. Keep up, Dorne!



Sir, I can see resistance trading fire up ahead!



So help me, if Vik dies seconds before we make contact I'll kill him.



We're... too late. Detecting no life signs, Captain.
Detecting no Weequays either. That scumbag isn't even here, I – wait, you hear that?



Sorry sir, hear what?
Communicator. Somebody's trying to call a dead resistance fighter, and I think I can guess who.

Recommended for speaking to the man himself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYPiNMMAwSw





I'm Havoc Squad's CO. Surrender immediately or my team will hunt you down.
Nice to meet you, too. I guess that message I got wasn't a prank after all.
I really want to hear what the Republic has to offer me, because last I checked, I wasn't winning any popularity contests with Command.
But that'll have to wait until my work here is done. I couldn't stand to leave without doing my part for the Balmorrans.





Let's see, there's money, revenge, the thrill, tough galacitc job market... My money's on money.
Funny. You know, if you're really interested in getting me on your team, you might want to pitch in with this operation.
My odds of surviving go way up if I have Havoc Squad's help. I'd say that's better for all of us.
It doesn't sound like I have any other options.
Yeah, let's make the best of a bad situation.
My team and I just grabbed an enemy VIP named Brel Orus. He's a Balmorran fat-cat who sold out to the Imps.
Thieving mongrel slime! You'll pay for this! You'll pay for – argh!



What's hidden inside of the hazard vault, Vik?
Let me worry about that part.
Bingo. Money.
Really killing the vibe here, Captain. I need you to clear a path. There are all sorts of defenses that could stop my missile before it hits.
The Imps have anti-missile turrets, shields, defensive sensors... why don't you start with the sensors? Take them down, then contact me again, copy?
Enjoy this little game of yours while you can, Vik.



Sir, are we still recruiting Tanno Vik? Or arresting him?
I'll figure it out when we catch up with him. Meantime, we've got a lot of work to do.

kaosdrachen
Aug 15, 2011
Ah, Tanno Vik.

Still not the *worst* companion around, but a firm data point for the theory that there was some mandatory "every class has to have at least one NPC companion that absolutely *no one* will like" rule written down somewhere...

koolkevz666
Aug 22, 2015

kaosdrachen posted:

Ah, Tanno Vik.

Still not the *worst* companion around, but a firm data point for the theory that there was some mandatory "every class has to have at least one NPC companion that absolutely *no one* will like" rule written down somewhere...

If there is one lovely change that the recent expansion made it was for dealing with people like him, still screwed up with one of them though didn't you Bioware!!!

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

kaosdrachen posted:

Ah, Tanno Vik.

Still not the *worst* companion around, but a firm data point for the theory that there was some mandatory "every class has to have at least one NPC companion that absolutely *no one* will like" rule written down somewhere...

I think the idea was more that every class needs one pure dark-side psychopath for the players who swing that way.

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat

Cythereal posted:

I think the idea was more that every class needs one pure dark-side psychopath for the players who swing that way.

That was pretty much it, yeah.

Every companion has their own personality and most lean light or dark (and a lot of them fall in between), but there's always one that's almost pure darkside (Broonmark, Tanno Vik, Skadge, etc), but since (at launch) companions were locked to certain roles, no one actually used them because the darksiders were nearly always either a melee or ranged tank, which nearly every class found useless.

Most of the more interesting companions were the ones who fell somewhere in the middle of the light/dark scale, like Vette (I'm biased), Gault, Gus Tuno, 4X, Scorpio, etc.

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jun 29, 2016

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

PoptartsNinja posted:

Most of the more interesting companions were the ones who fell somewhere in the middle of the light/dark scale, like Vette (I'm biased), Gault, Gus Tuno, 4X, Scorpio, etc.

Vette, in the middle? She's pretty consistently LS in my experience, and I personally found her insufferable and annoying. I loved the Warrior as a character and the Warrior story, but I feel the Warrior's companion cast is one of the weakest in the game.

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat

Cythereal posted:

Vette, in the middle? She's pretty consistently LS in my experience, and I personally found her insufferable and annoying. I loved the Warrior as a character and the Warrior story, but I feel the Warrior's companion cast is one of the weakest in the game.

She has her moments, but they're usually about self interest / personal gain.

I won't argue that the Warrior's cast is weak though, they're all designed to play 'second fiddle' to the pillar of raw ego that is the Sith Warrior and since the Warrior has probably the most extreme difference in personality between the light and dark versions of the character, most of the Warrior's companions either had to be bland or take the Jaesa route (doubling the cost of the voice-acting and making further branches for BioWare to keep track of).

They're bland, but they do the job better than Ashara (who seems to assume that the Sith Sorcerer is a lightsider no matter what you do in front of her, which suggests to me that there was a 'dark' Ashara planned that Bioware ran out of time to implement but because they ran out of time, if you're a darksider it makes Ashara look like she's suffered some form of brain damage).

Then again, even lightside Jaesa likes (at least) one Darkside option. She's a boring do-gooder but she's not completely devoid of personality.

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Jun 29, 2016

LifeofaGuardian
Oct 26, 2013

Every part of every human being-even their ugly sides-is beautiful. There is no limit to beauty.

kaosdrachen posted:

Ah, Tanno Vik.

Still not the *worst* companion around, but a firm data point for the theory that there was some mandatory "every class has to have at least one NPC companion that absolutely *no one* will like" rule written down somewhere...

I actually liked Tanno Vik, he's sleazy and amoral but he was a lot more level-headed in the conversations I got with him than the other dark-side companions.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

PoptartsNinja posted:

They're bland, but they do the job better than Ashara (who seems to assume that the Sith Sorcerer is a lightsider no matter what you do in front of her, which suggests to me that there was a 'dark' Ashara planned that Bioware ran out of time to implement but because they ran out of time, if you're a darksider it makes Ashara look like she's suffered some form of brain damage).

Eh, my biggest problem with Ashara is that she has a clear and compelling character arc to her - she starts as a pure LS type, but she steadily falls as you get to know her from a philosophical angle. Ashara sits down to really think about the basis of the Jedi and Sith philosophies, and concludes that they're both misguided and largely bullshit, at best they're each incomplete in isolation. You can even get her to admit in one of her final couple of conversations that she's not sure if she's a Sith but she's definitely no Jedi and thinks the Sith come closer to the truth than the Jedi do. She's willing to commit and support atrocities as long as it leads to meaningful positive change in the galaxy.

It's a good idea that game mechanics completely fail to support, and the Star Wars setting in general seems to have an intense aversion to seriously exploring and establishing Force traditions and beliefs that are neither Jedi nor Sith and ambivalent about Light and Dark. Knights of the Old Republic 2 tried very hard, but TOR and the tie-in novels retconned virtually everything about that game and in particular established that Kreia was full of poo poo and she was just a delusional Sith all along.


Then again, part of my enjoying Ashara is the fact that I kind of hate the Light/Dark Jedi/Sith idea in Star Wars in general and to me the setting is at its best when all that stuff is kept firmly in the background in favor of working with normal people.

Siegkrow
Oct 11, 2013

Arguing about Lore for 5 years and counting



Cythereal posted:

The truth is much more stupid.

While i do think that the truth is stupid, mostly because it is barely explained at all, I am firm in my belief that we should let the readers form their own opinion.

Siegkrow fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jun 29, 2016

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008


Cythereal posted:

Knights of the Old Republic 2 tried very hard, but TOR and the tie-in novels retconned virtually everything about that game and in particular established that Kreia was full of poo poo and she was just a delusional Sith all along.

Wow, that's quite rude.

Ceebees
Nov 2, 2011

I'm intentionally being as verbose as possible in negotiations for my own amusement.

Doctor Reynolds posted:

Wow, that's quite rude.

Well, Lucas and the story group retconned virtually everything about Jacen and Vergere, particularly making her a delusional sith who was full of poo poo all along, so slapping down pesky Interesting Moral Questions is kind of traditional really.

Coq au Nandos
Nov 7, 2006

I think I would say to my daughters if they were to ask me this question... A shitpost is the greatest gift that you can give someone, the ultimate gift of giving and don't give it to someone lightly, that's what I would say.

Ceebees posted:

Well, Lucas and the story group retconned virtually everything about Jacen and Vergere, particularly making her a delusional sith who was full of poo poo all along, so slapping down pesky Interesting Moral Questions is kind of traditional really.

Yeah it's a shame but it comes from Lucas himself iirc. Maybe now that he's not calling all of the shots anymore there'll be a bit of room for nuance going forward.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.
Alas, Grey Side Force characters have a hard time existing and being appreciated when everyone tries to fit everything force into either a Red box or Blue box. Not just in-universe either.

Hopefully people will keep trying and maybe sometime it'll stick.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I do like that the Wookiee's most dangerous weapon is whatever he just picked up.

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat

EponymousMrYar posted:

Alas, Grey Side Force characters have a hard time existing and being appreciated when everyone tries to fit everything force into either a Red box or Blue box. Not just in-universe either.

I was actually doing that in my trooper run.

When I stopped Zen was at precisely 100 Light/Dark (I think Dark) Side points away from force neutrality. I'd have probably done something like that with Mort if there was a way to do so that didn't make him seem schizophrenic, the Inquisitor and I think the Jedi classes have an easier time of the 'Grey Jedi' route [spoiler]and the Inquisitor even gets "rewarded" for it in the form of a special Darth name that only neutral inquisitors can get: Darth Oculus[/spoil], but the differences between a lightside and darkside action for the warrior tend to be very extreme.

Which is why I was showing some of the dark side choices with Sjar. I should do some more of those now that leveling isn't total poo poo.



Glazius posted:

I do like that the Wookiee's most dangerous weapon is whatever he just picked up.

They will actually be playing around with companions picking up other weapon types from time to time. In future missions, at least.

Coq au Nandos
Nov 7, 2006

I think I would say to my daughters if they were to ask me this question... A shitpost is the greatest gift that you can give someone, the ultimate gift of giving and don't give it to someone lightly, that's what I would say.
I've got a trooper I haven't touched in a while that was kind of following that approach - I was having her follow any order, regardless of morality. Chain of command and all that.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
I played my bounty hunter similarly: she would do what she was hired to do, period. Want the target alive? Done. Want the target dead? Done. A complete professional.

I think the bounty hunter has one of the better supporting casts in that regard. Each bounty hunter companion lines up nicely with one of the major ways to play the bounty hunter yourself - you get the consummate professional, the greedy scoundrel, the honorable warrior, the hardcase with a soft center, and the psycho for hire.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

PoptartsNinja posted:

When I stopped Zen was at precisely 100 Light/Dark (I think Dark) Side points away from force neutrality. I'd have probably done something like that with Mort if there was a way to do so that didn't make him seem schizophrenic, the Inquisitor and I think the Jedi classes have an easier time of the 'Grey Jedi' route [spoiler]and the Inquisitor even gets "rewarded" for it in the form of a special Darth name that only neutral inquisitors can get: Darth Oculus[/spoil], but the differences between a lightside and darkside action for the warrior tend to be very extreme.

One of the best moments I remember in the game is the Grey Side choice for Warriors before you actually become one, where you convince two gangs stealing imperial supplies to fight one another and then you let them fight without picking a side and clean up whoever gets left over.

It's great. Making me want to get back into it again, dangit.

Siegkrow
Oct 11, 2013

Arguing about Lore for 5 years and counting



Cythereal posted:

- you get the consummate professional, the greedy scoundrel, the honorable warrior, the hardcase with a soft center, and the psycho for hire.

Okay, so, the greedy scoundrel is obviously Gault. The psycho is the angry tumor. The honorable warrior is our mandalorian buddy. but Mako and Blizz don't fit as a hardcase with a soft center nor a consummate professional.

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Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Siegkrow posted:

Okay, so, the greedy scoundrel is obviously Gault. The psycho is the angry tumor. The honorable warrior is our mandalorian buddy. but Mako and Blizz don't fit as a hardcase with a soft center nor a consummate professional.

Eh, Mako actually is a pretty solid professional - she loves it when you're greedy, but she tends to get peeved when you don't do what you're hired to do. Most of the dark side decisions she approves of are ones where it's what you were hired to do, like the Rakata device in the Tatooine storyline where the good option is to say it's too dangerous and destroy it, but the dark side option is to bring it back for the Empire. You were hired for the latter, so it's what Mako approves of. She's pretty consistent about it throughout the game - get money, and do what you were hired for.

Blizz, eh, fair enough. He's more of a kid tagging along with the gang than anything else, but he's the closest fit to the pure LS bounty hunter, who in my read puts up a good tough guy act but when you get down to it is a total softie.

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