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Wanamingo posted:Why are you going to bat so hard for such a garbage show? I have a desire to be understood, and I feel like I'm not right now. The show itself is incidental.
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Jun 30, 2016 02:25
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Lady Naga posted:Dude literally says "I came into this comedy show expecting thorough and persuasive takedowns, and the show failed to live up to this expectation. Somehow this is the show's fault, and not me".
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Jun 30, 2016 02:37
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InediblePenguin posted:See, I read that as the dude literally saying "I came into this comedy show expecting thorough and persuasive takedowns; the actual supposed-to-be-comedy format seems counterproductive and made me aware that my own attitude was equally counterproductive and unpleasant," and what you see as a failure for people to understand you, I see as a failure for you to understand others. The point is that if you're coming into a comedy show for thorough and persuasive takedowns that's your problem, not anyone else's.
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Jun 30, 2016 02:45
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Lady Naga posted:The point is that if you're coming into a comedy show for thorough and persuasive takedowns that's your problem, not anyone else's. He heard that Penn and Teller were doing a show, hoped that it would be serious, and then was disappointed that it was a comedy. There's no need to jump on the guy for that.
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Jun 30, 2016 02:55
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Wanamingo posted:He heard that Penn and Teller were doing a show, hoped that it would be serious, and then was disappointed that it was a comedy. There's no need to jump on the guy for that. Naga's just a really argumentative person in general. You eventually learn to just let it happen and not take it personally. Overall P&T just seem to have the same problem as every other privileged straight white dude with a center-left view of social issues: They've got a few good premises, but they're just not woke enough to actually get it right more than half the time, at best.
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Jun 30, 2016 03:09
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A lot of the poo poo is bad and I haven't seen them in a few years but like; sometimes just having people rag on morons is cathartic. Natural treatment douchebags are literally profiting off of death and chiropractors are super dangerous and sometimes I don't want to engage with them in Real Serious Adult Debate I just want them to say stupid things and have someone say "gently caress this rear end in a top hat!"
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Jun 30, 2016 03:13
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That still just makes them a worse version of hbomberguy.
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Jun 30, 2016 03:40
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Terrible Opinions posted:That still just makes them a worse version of hbomberguy. Nice I didn't know hbomberguy was making alt-right videos in 2010.
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Jun 30, 2016 03:41
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Penn is probably one of the key inspirations for the alt-right.
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Jun 30, 2016 03:57
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Lady Naga posted:Nice I didn't know hbomberguy was making alt-right videos in 2010.
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Jun 30, 2016 04:26
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I want to see Penn do a cannonball into a deep pool, I bet he'd deplace a ton of water.Terrible Opinions posted:I was more meaning taking down easy targets but primarily being about comedy. I get defensive about this specific sticking point because SA likes to get really holier than thou about how you're not allowed to make fun of morons and should instead always be polite and kind and engage them in reasonable debate otherwise you're Just As Bad. You're right though. Lady Naga has a new favorite as of 04:53 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 04:46
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Lady Naga posted:I want to see Penn do a cannonball into a deep pool, I bet he'd deplace a ton of water. When has SA ever actually done this. This entire thread is a thread wherein we mock right-wing idiots for having really lovely ideas, not debate their principles. We're on Safari rules here,friend. You can smell the poop, look at the poop, and listen to the poop, but you don't get to stick your face in it.
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Jun 30, 2016 05:00
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Lady Naga posted:The point is that if you're coming into a comedy show for thorough and persuasive takedowns that's your problem, not anyone else's. I never really interpreted it as trying to be a comedy show myself, and they made the point in the very first episode and several times after that that they wanted it to be Real Serious Business but they had to guise it somewhat to avoid lawsuits. Lady Naga posted:I get defensive about this specific sticking point because SA likes to get really holier than thou about how you're not allowed to make fun of morons and should instead always be polite and kind and engage them in reasonable debate otherwise you're Just As Bad. You're right though. In Bullshit's case they literally called out other people for the lovely one-sided mocking that they themselves engaged in constantly. Like I know SA has a tendency to spiral into smug one-upping and hugboxing but putting that aside for a moment Bullshit was a dumb bad show with dumb bad people making dishonest points and deserves to be called out for it.
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Jun 30, 2016 05:19
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Why do so many comedians and magicians become libertarian garbage? Is it rooted in the contempt for one's audience that must be an inevitable consequence of having a job based on entertaining people by outsmarting them? Like Penn thinks he's the ubermench because he can do a card trick that wows 'em every time? His inevitable stroke can't come soon enough.
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Jun 30, 2016 05:44
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I imagine it's the same as Justine Tunney and Moldbug looking down their noses at people because your average steel worker cant tell you what a fork bomb is. I got broken out of it when my forester uncles asked me to break down the processes of putting together an environmental impact report when I got a little  at Christmas dinner.
Razorwired has a new favorite as of 08:08 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 05:50
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Penn and Teller are cheap imitators compared to gamesmasterjasper who is coincidentally also my favorite dark enlightenment thinker.
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Jun 30, 2016 07:01
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Fututor Magnus posted:Consequently after divabot / dgerard bringing up urbit's crowdsale on reddit, funny computer forum has taken up discussion of urbit. Coincidentally with my Tumblr post on Urbit doing the rounds again, they've dropped the entire site into robots.txt. I've updated the Tumblr post with links to archive.is copies. The 404 on the original is thoroughgoing Urbit.
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Jun 30, 2016 10:17
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Jack Gladney posted:Why do so many comedians and magicians become libertarian garbage? Is it rooted in the contempt for one's audience that must be an inevitable consequence of having a job based on entertaining people by outsmarting them? Like Penn thinks he's the ubermench because he can do a card trick that wows 'em every time? His inevitable stroke can't come soon enough. To his credit, Penn frequently says stuff along the lines of "I'm just a dumbfuck juggler, not a real expert on anything", and is refreshingly humble about exactly what it means to be a master illusionist. To his discredit, Penn loves to opine about things he isn't well informed about and then try to deflect the inevitable criticism with this self-deprecation, which starts to get old when he's been serially wrong about the same topic (eg global warming) so often.
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Jun 30, 2016 11:53
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BobHoward posted:To his credit, Penn frequently says stuff along the lines of "I'm just a dumbfuck juggler, not a real expert on anything", and is refreshingly humble about exactly what it means to be a master illusionist. That's been a favored tactic of the right for a long time. 1) State an obvious mistruth that favors the conservative narrative. 2) Get called out by someone who actually knows what they're talking about. 3) Pull the ol' "Gosh, I'm just a simple hyperchicken from a backwoods asteroid" act, talk about how you don't go in for all that fancy book-learnin'. 4) Declare your wrong fact is actually an opinion, and that opinions are sacrosanct. 5)  the gently caress out about how you'll just have to agree to disagree. Try desperately to come off as the better person, because you're certainly not going to try to change the other person's "opinion", so why are they trying to change your "opinion"?
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Jun 30, 2016 12:04
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The Vosgian Beast posted:HPMOR is so bad that I legitimately can't even get through Let's Reads of it or whatever they're called. Yeah. It's legitimately unreadable. If you're going to write didactic crap at least get some Upton Sinclair in you, not Ayn Rand. Jack of Hearts posted:I think it's kinda fascinating, because someone has created a didactic philosophical "novel," with an actual fan base, worse that Atlas Shrugged itself. That's interesting to think about but sure as hell is not interesting to read.
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Jun 30, 2016 15:21
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Hermetic posted:That's been a favored tactic of the right for a long time. For example.
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Jun 30, 2016 15:32
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"It's just a meme", jesus christ. That variant almost needs its own name: The 4chan doublestep. You create distance from your point by claiming it was a joke/oversimplification/meme/trolling, but then claim it's actually right, though. "lol i'm just memeing chill bro (although they actually have some good points...)". See: Every discussion of /pol/, Trump, r9k's hatred of women, "ironic" racism, "ironic" homophobia, "ironic" sexism, "trolling" using the reverse of feminist talking points, etc.
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Jun 30, 2016 16:03
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divabot posted:Coincidentally with my Tumblr post on Urbit doing the rounds again, they've dropped the entire site into robots.txt. I've updated the Tumblr post with links to archive.is copies. The 404 on the original is thoroughgoing Urbit. I just spent about an hour on Wikipedia surfing to remind myself of the meaning of various comp sci terms I used to pass upper-level courses and then forgot, all to figure out the statement "urbit is intended as an attempt to construct a computational and network model that reflects its creator’s philosophy," and boy howdy does Moldbug take a tedious amount of time getting to the point! So sorry thread if this has already been gone into, but if any of yall are curious about why on Earth anyone number of people would buy up $200,000 worth of mystery items in a joke programming language OS internet client thing, the key is to note that there are a mathematically limited number of possible identifiers (i.e., if you're using a byte to identify users, there can only be 256 identified users), and then to treat this as if it were real estate. quote:Furthermore, there’s a clue here that the Bitcoin approach just isn’t getting. The limited subspace of short names, within the general space of 128-bit names, is essentially real estate. There is absolutely no reason, moral or practical, to give this real estate away for free to people whose only contribution is generating CO2 on their GPUs. Mining is not in any way a productive activity. PEOPLE ARE PAYING MONEY FOR (BASICALLY) IP ADDRESSES ON THIS BULLSHIT 
GunnerJ has a new favorite as of 16:22 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 16:11
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Like imagine if we treated license plates for cars like this. If there's more cars on the road than 6 alphanumerics can identify, instead of just making plates with 7 and treating the old plates as if they began with 0, if you wanted to buy a car you'd also have to buy a license plate from someone!
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Jun 30, 2016 16:16
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You just described the taxi medallion system.
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Jun 30, 2016 16:26
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Wait, so Urbit is just Moldbug trying to get people to pay him for address space inn a system nobody in their right mind would use?
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Jun 30, 2016 16:29
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neonnoodle posted:You just described the taxi medallion system. OK, but are these medallions classified in terms of a naval feudal order? quote:In Urbit’s naval terminology, ships above 64 bits are “submarines.” 64-bit ships are “yachts.” 32-bit, “destroyers.” 16-bit, “cruisers.” 8-bit, “carriers.” This also resembles a feudal hierarchy, so it comes with a feudal terminology. There are 256 imperial carriers, 65.280 royal cruisers, 4.294.901.760 rebel destroyers, uncounted scads of private yachts, and more or less infinitely many rogue submarines. lmfao (In seriousness, such a system for license plates could make sense if you wanted to limit the number of cars on the road as medallions limit taxis, although the angle in Urbit's case seems to be collecting e-rent.) GunnerJ has a new favorite as of 16:40 on Jun 30, 2016 |
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Jun 30, 2016 16:33
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Pope Guilty posted:Wait, so Urbit is just Moldbug trying to get people to pay him for address space inn a system nobody in their right mind would use? Yep! Or maybe in more general terms it is a proof of concept for applying the beloved libertarian ideal of "finder's keepers" (formally known as "homesteading") to the Internet for some reason, because applying another beloved libertarian hobby horse, the gold standard, to an internet currency (down to the actual mining of limited quantities of virtual bullion) worked out great!
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Jun 30, 2016 16:35
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He's rebuilding computing from first principles to suit his ideology, and the first principle of his ideology is that he should get paid for other people's work. He truly is a capitalist.
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Jun 30, 2016 16:40
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Actually looking it over, the whole thing seems to be an idea Lowtax came up with like 15 years ago or some poo poo:quote:What’s neat about short names is that there’s a finite number of them. This is not a bug, but a feature. Essentially, to borrow the thinking of political scientist James Scott, a finite space is governable. An infinite space is ungovernable.
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Jun 30, 2016 16:49
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GunnerJ posted:the beloved libertarian ideal of "finder's keepers" (formally known as "homesteading") That's "white finder's keepers."
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Jun 30, 2016 16:50
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Pope Guilty posted:He's rebuilding computing from first principles to suit his ideology, and the first principle of his ideology is that he should get paid for other people's work. He truly is a capitalist. I mean in fairness cooking this whole thing up was his work, right? I guess if you literally built the planet Earth you'd have something of a moral claim to deciding how its surface gets used. The thing is that unlike the planet Earth, Urbit seems mostly useful to people who agree with Moldbug as a way of, er, virtue-signaling I guess (?) their commitment to the ideology, in which case it seems pretty fair that they are all getting what they deserve (i.e., bullshit).
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Jun 30, 2016 16:53
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eschaton posted:That's "white finder's keepers." You have to use what you find the right* way for it to count, I don't see a problem here.  *white
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Jun 30, 2016 16:53
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Your mistake is thinking 19th century settlers recognized Native Americans as people.
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Jun 30, 2016 17:52
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Pope Guilty posted:Wait, so Urbit is just Moldbug trying to get people to pay him for address space inn a system nobody in their right mind would use? It's more like solving a known problem with neoreactionary philosophy. There's a lot of CS research in public distributed computing: you throw code onto the network and it's executed by anybody. Of course, that opens you up to all kinds of trust and work-tracking issues - governance - which is a big part of what keeps this all theoretical. Most researchers try to come up with proof-of-work systems and some kind of distributed ledger of computational IOUs (a little like Bitcoin but backed by work instead of money laundering and drugs). These systems are devilishly difficult to get right in a lab, and nobody has yet managed to come up with anything besides theoretical models for components of this system that could stand up to public release. Moldbug's grand idea is to forget the hard parts and replace them with feudalism. To get onto the system, you have to sign up under a king/carrier/galaxy and probably a lord/battleship/star. If you misbehave in a way they don't like, they will exile you from the system and take your digital poo poo. If they act unjustly, welp, divine right of Internet kings, motherfucker. If you're so smart, why don't you have your own principality?
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Jun 30, 2016 18:01
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I knew a guy who interned at Urbit. He came back with the unshakable belief that Urbit was doing something revolutionary and that it would be huge and that he was getting in on the ground floor, but he had no ability to explain what was revolutionary about it or what it could be used for. When he tried, it came out weird and messy, like "it's a stateful system whose state is a function of a log of previous actions and previous states". Anyone familiar with this corner of information theory will recognize that as an unusually long-winded way to describe a simple state machine. He also emphasized that the contents of storage were a part of machine state, so they could be reconstructed from the log of previous actions. I contend that this has no value other than ensuring that you have a lot of trouble storing your unbelievably gigantic machine log anywhere (which, obviously, is why real computer systems do not do this).
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Jun 30, 2016 18:12
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SolTerrasa posted:I knew a guy who interned at Urbit. He came back with the unshakable belief that Urbit was doing something revolutionary and that it would be huge and that he was getting in on the ground floor, but he had no ability to explain what was revolutionary about it or what it could be used for. Redpilled by Moldbug. Does he also believe that billions of people will eventually start using urbit just as they logon to Facebook?
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Jun 30, 2016 18:20
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Fututor Magnus posted:Redpilled by Moldbug. Does he also believe that billions of people will eventually start using urbit just as they logon to Facebook? He thinks that the project will fail because its genius is just too revolutionary for our time. A hundred years from now someone will revive the long-dead project and perhaps in those times his genius will be respected etc etc etc we've heard this one before.
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Jun 30, 2016 18:44
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SolTerrasa posted:He thinks that the project will fail because its genius is just too revolutionary for our time. A hundred years from now someone will revive the long-dead project and perhaps in those times his genius will be respected etc etc etc we've heard this one before. That view is quite more realistic than Curtis's own. According to the whitepaper, urbit is designed to run on a datacenter for log storage, but apparently will be viable on standard consumer hardware given SSDs or NVDIMM and still have low-latency cloud-logging for "uniform persistence".
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Jun 30, 2016 19:15
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Isn't the Bitcoin blockchain now so bloated and huge that it's becoming a problem? Is his answer seriously just to throw more storage at it?
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Jun 30, 2016 19:21
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