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So I've just finished reading up on the first issue or two of every major sphere in the post-Secret Wars/ANAD status quo, and I'd just like to talk a little bit about that. I think this is one of the most interesting, progressive and rewarding times to be reading these comics that I've ever seen. Every group has something interesting going on, most creative temples are working for me and the new designs they've come up with over the past couple years have been really, really strong. Stuff that I've missed out on over the past 5 or so years like Kamala Khan and Miles, Captain Marvel, Spider-Gwen, Silk, Thor and Odinson. I also love that there's an obvious trend towards including female and ethnic characters in the line-ups and even if that's predicated principally upon farming future movie projects, I still think it's a massively positive movement. I love that there's 3 Avengers teams (and A-Force, which is probably my favourite and giving me a weird Steven Universe vibe) and none of them feel like the B-team. I love that they're giving characters like Carol and Sunspot and Adam Brashear room to shine. I love that 4 out of my 5 fave books star female characters and none of them feel cheesecakey. I love that they're giving authors massive leeway right from the get-go to cure Galactus or turn Cap and in doing so make big statements for their books to build on. I just got done with the latest Thor and I freaking love everything about this new status quo. Thor's design is awesome, Jane's situation is really interesting and Tetsuo-Odinson looks loving boss. I just finished reading Mockingbird and I'm loving all of it. This is massive change for the positive all across the board for me. I'm aware that I'm just saying how much I love things over and over so I'll change it up: while Invincible Iron Man is really strong Civil War 2 feels like Bendis doing his "okay the characters are going to do THIS now and everyone is just going to have to deal with it" and it seems to be very average as far as events go, and I didn't even bother with Standoff. I do like that it's pushing retooled characters like Carol and freaking Karnak though, who has really surprised me with how much I dig him. Alright I'm going to stop now. The past few weeks have been me dipping my toes back into comics after several years break and I'm really enjoying all the little surprises I'm finding.
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Jun 30, 2016 22:41
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X-O posted:Don't worry, none of you will have to worry about these pesky young characters for much longer. This is a pretty sick promo image. Could be a Young Avengers revival which would be pretty goddamned awesome.
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Jun 30, 2016 22:44
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X-O posted:Don't worry, none of you will have to worry about these pesky young characters for much longer. It's been implied that Kamala is going to go Anti-PreCog, but she's leaving the Tony Avengers? Toxxupation posted:This is a pretty sick promo image. Could be a Young Avengers revival which would be pretty goddamned awesome. Young Aveners - Kamala, miles, Sam, Kate (their leader), America, Laura and goldballs
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Jun 30, 2016 22:50
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DrProsek posted:Who are these strange people with wrong opinions? If anything, Jean's a poor man's Rachel, and Hope is a different but better character. That's one reason Rachel has apparently dropped off into nothingness. They have Teen Jean, why do they need her? Some guy named Breevoort even said no writer at Marvel likes her except Claremont. That's stupid but hey. Made me think of a comic I found where Rachel went ignored during the whole AVX situation where the others were debating the Phoenix Force and what it returning meant. Apparently the last thing the PF had done was Dark Phoenix and everything with Rachel or even the White Phoenix was forgotten. Last time I followed comics Rachel was pretty important, fighting her evil Space Caesar uncle and all, but sh apparently has flitted around doing nothing since then. Not really surprised she's in no books at present.
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Jul 1, 2016 00:21
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Nate is the best Grey, and in fact the best X character period.
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Jul 1, 2016 00:22
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twistedmentat posted:It's been implied that Kamala is going to go Anti-PreCog, but she's leaving the Tony Avengers? That would be an awesome team, but to get Goldballs onto it you'd basically have to have Bendis write it. Not necessarily a bad thing though, and a lot of the big writers I'd want to do a Young Avengers book aren't with Marvel these days  .E: NikkolasKing posted:That's one reason Rachel has apparently dropped off into nothingness. They have Teen Jean, why do they need her? Some guy named Breevoort even said no writer at Marvel likes her except Claremont. That's disappointing. Admittedly lil' Jean and Rachel kinda have similar back stories now so I can kinda see how they're redundant, but I always thought Rachel was just inherently more interesting. burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 00:23
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DrProsek posted:E: I completely agree. Coming from an X-Men TAS background I naturally was looking to Jean when I started to read comics but then Ifound out about her daughter and was like "she's way cooler." She's also way cooler than Cable but everyone knows Cable because of TAS and his many series. Meanwhile, Rachel has been removed from her origin story in every adaptation of it. No wonder nobody knows who she is.
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Jul 1, 2016 00:32
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Hope's gone too, isn't she? I can't remember seeing her anyplace since Secret Wars. I also really enjoyed reading the discussion a few pages back about Lockjaw being dead after reading Uncanny Inhumans. Because that would mean that he nobly gave his life to break a bunch of Tony Stark's stuff. Oh another thing, especially in light of the "divided" promo image. Did anyone else notice that Fin Fang Foom has shown up in like three different totally unrelated comics in the past six months or so? He was in Hulk, Wolverine, and Drax off the top of my head. Cool Dad fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 00:34
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She's an internet coma ghost now.
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Jul 1, 2016 01:45
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X-O posted:Don't worry, none of you will have to worry about these pesky young characters for much longer. Between this and Night Thrasher being back, there better be a New New Warriors team on the horizon.
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Jul 1, 2016 02:36
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SilverSupernova posted:Between this and Night Thrasher being back, there better be a New New Warriors team on the horizon. Oh my god. That will be what happens. Civil war 1 begins with the destruction of new warriors. Civil war 2 ends with a rebirth of new warriors.
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Jul 1, 2016 02:38
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Mr Hootington posted:Oh my god. That will be what happens. Civil war 1 begins with the destruction of new warriors. Civil war 2 ends with a rebirth of new warriors. That would actually, no lie, like absolutely zero lie, be loving fantastic.
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Jul 1, 2016 02:43
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Toxxupation posted:And yet DC has been doing this for over a half-century at this point. Nobody on earth is saying "Flash? Oh you mean Jay Garrick, right?" The entire history of the DC Universe is one big proof of ImpAtom's point that it's virtually impossible for any legacy characters to be considered the bona fide, persistent owners of their titles if the shadows of their predecessors are constantly hanging over their shoulders; every single case of it actually succeeding has been when the former "main" Flashes or "main" Green Lanterns were placed into retirement somehow. Certainly I would like for it to be different; ideally, I want there to be room for every single character that everyone likes without having to sideline anyone, and I think it's great that this is what Rebirth is attempting to do. But in practice this has never truly worked and it's kinda weird to be touting DC's last half-century as some sort of archetypal success story of different characters sharing exact same titles.
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Jul 1, 2016 02:43
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I can't wait for the newly returned Wally to ask Barry "wait, where's Jay?"
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Jul 1, 2016 02:49
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New Warriors in name only unless Speedball is there.
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Jul 1, 2016 02:51
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BrianWilly posted:
The Bat-Family and the Robins, and hell even the time that Dick Grayson was Batman specifically disproves that point. It can be done it just needs better storytelling to do it. gently caress, Dick Grayson replaced Bruce Wayne and a lot of people consider him the better Batman. People were pissed about Barbara Gordon getting Batgirl back in the N52 because many people considered Stephanie Brown the better Batgirl. The barrier to legacy characters co-existing at the same time as currently extant ones is writing prowess, not some flat declarative statement that legacy characters can't co-exist with their predecessor.
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Jul 1, 2016 03:00
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X-O posted:Don't worry, none of you will have to worry about these pesky young characters for much longer. I love these three and I hope they're friends forever.
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Jul 1, 2016 03:21
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Toxxupation posted:The Bat-Family and the Robins, and hell even the time that Dick Grayson was Batman specifically disproves that point. It can be done it just needs better storytelling to do it. gently caress, Dick Grayson replaced Bruce Wayne and a lot of people consider him the better Batman. People were pissed about Barbara Gordon getting Batgirl back in the N52 because many people considered Stephanie Brown the better Batgirl. The barrier to legacy characters co-existing at the same time as currently extant ones is writing prowess, not some flat declarative statement that legacy characters can't co-exist with their predecessor. But... Dick Grayson was Batman when Bruce -wasn't-, unless I'm misremembering that? Wasn't that when Bruce was dead for awhile, or missing or whatever? And the Robins all inevitably move on past being Robin and get their own names, thus a new Robin can exist. Same with the Batgirls - Barbara was paralyzed and thus incapable of being batgirl, and then as soon as she can walk once more, she becomes batgirl again, while the legacy ones get shifted out of existing, which is just proving the point. Actually, all of these except the Robin one prove ImpAtom's point. Dick as Batman was viewed as better than Bruce? Too bad, Bruce is back, he's batman again, Dick is nightwing, get used to it. Steph/Cass as Batgirl have fans? Too bad, Barbara is a bigger name and more notable to bring back, she's no longer oracle, the other two don't exist.
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Jul 1, 2016 03:44
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KittyEmpress posted:Steph/Cass as Batgirl have fans? Too bad, Barbara is a bigger name and more notable to bring back, she's no longer oracle, the other two don't exist. Cass was ridiculously popular back in the day and from what I remember of the Nu 52 hatedom, Babs was highly resented for being Batgirl again instead of Steph. Everyone I talked to said her series couldn't hold a candle to Steph's.
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Jul 1, 2016 03:50
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NikkolasKing posted:Cass was ridiculously popular back in the day and from what I remember of the Nu 52 hatedom, Babs was highly resented for being Batgirl again instead of Steph. Everyone I talked to said her series couldn't hold a candle to Steph's. No, no, I wasn't asking that as a question so much as a 'so they have fans? Doesn't matter, legacy trumps all, old character wins'.
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Jul 1, 2016 04:01
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KittyEmpress posted:But... Dick Grayson was Batman when Bruce -wasn't-, unless I'm misremembering that? Wasn't that when Bruce was dead for awhile, or missing or whatever? And the Robins all inevitably move on past being Robin and get their own names, thus a new Robin can exist. Same with the Batgirls - Barbara was paralyzed and thus incapable of being batgirl, and then as soon as she can walk once more, she becomes batgirl again, while the legacy ones get shifted out of existing, which is just proving the point. Actually, all of these except the Robin one prove ImpAtom's point. The point was Damian established himself as Robin while Tim Drake was around and literally calling himself "Red Robin", which is the thinnest possible loving variation to the point that it's transparent. It's a distinction without a difference. Every Robin after Dick existed while Dick Grayson was around, just calling himself Nightwing. And yet they're all Robin. Legacy characters are more than a simple title, Dick and Jason and Tim and Damian and even Stephanie and Carrie are all legitimate Robins despite the fact that they all existed at the same time as their predecessors existed (well not Carrie, but she's even worse; she's basically fanfiction and still a Robin) and in Dick's case had a pretty permanent ongoing book of his adventures, most of the time spent with him doing stuff in Gotham. And yes, the Dick Grayson Batman was established post-Final Crisis (when Bruce Wayne was shot backwards in time and "dead"), but the entirety of Morrison's Batman and Robin run is Dick under absolutely zero delusions that he's the new Batman. And then Bruce Wayne comes back to life about halfway through the run and goes "look I'm gonna be doing Batman, Incorporated so you're still Batman". There was quite literally two Batmen operating at the exact same time on books with the word "Batman" in the title and they were both legitimate. And Nightwing's whole arc is about how he doesn't want to be Batman, which is why when Bruce came back Dick was more than happy to eventually give the cowl back, even though he ended up not doing so (since Flashpoint/N52 ended up destroying everything). But he was definitely and for reals a just-as-legitimate Batman as Bruce Wayne while both were wearing the cowl, and many people consider Morrison's Batman and Robin run the best run he did while on the books. If two Batmen can co-exist, especially considering how Bruce Wayne is so firmly Batman that it's practically baked into the genetics of the character himself, then every single legacy character can co-exist. And people love the hell out of Batman and Robin and Batman, Incorporated, which ran simultaneously pre-New 52. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 04:03
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Rhyno posted:I can't wait for the newly returned Wally to ask Barry "wait, where's Jay?" And Bart and max and Jessie and Johnny lol gently caress DC screwed up the flash family.
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Jul 1, 2016 04:45
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But DC has been telling us that two Batmen can't co-exist! They did for a little tiny bit, and then the idea was just flat-out scrapped in lieu of the one iconic Batman being the one iconic Batman again and for the far foreseeable future. Even DC Rebirth, which is ostensibly intended to restore the good things that Nu52 undid, isn't going to put Dick in the cowl again. If we translate that into 1:1 Marvel terms, all it means is that Steve and Sam are both going to be Captain America for a while and all the readers are gonna embrace it and then suddenly Sam isn't going to be Cap anymore, too bad. For the co-existing heroes to truly work, it's not just the readers that have to be invested and committed to the idea, but DC/Marvel themselves have to be fully behind it in a way that they frankly have yet to demonstrate. Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson both being Batman was probably the best example of that status quo and it lasted for...what, a year? Less? Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson have both been active as Captain America for something like three weeks? Given Marvel and DC's track record, do we truly foresee them both being Captain America for the roughly twenty years it would take to truly cement Sam's status? Ten, even? Five?
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Jul 1, 2016 04:47
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...Yes? Marvel editorial is pretty good so far and I'm willing to give them, especially considering how they're handling things creatively for the past three or four years, the benefit of the doubt. And the point was I was directly repudiating a flat declarative "legacy characters can't co-exist with the originals/the originals automatically marginalize the legacies by existing" statement, because it happened and it worked for Batman. And if it can happen for Batman, the single most legacy-averse character in all of comics considering the genetics of the character, then it can happen for anyone. It all roots back to editorial and creative creating an atmosphere where legacy and original co-existing is possible. And I trust Marvel editorial, especially now, a hell of a loving lot more than I trust the trinity of Johns/DiDio/Lee. And I've been liking Rebirth so far. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 04:57
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Not to mention how enthusiastic black comic book readers and black people in general were about Marvel making Captain America black. They can all co-exist together because there are different fan bases for them that can and will overlap. There is no set in stone mandate that if hero A is alive and being written about hero B is doomed to failure.
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Jul 1, 2016 05:05
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Remember that time Rhodey became Iron Man for real and Tony stayed retired.
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Jul 1, 2016 05:18
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Rhyno posted:Remember that time Rhodey became Iron Man for real and Tony stayed retired. Yes
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Jul 1, 2016 06:15
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RIP Black Iron Man
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Jul 1, 2016 08:03
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He is mourned, apparently, only by me.
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Jul 1, 2016 08:48
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ImpAtom posted:It's not impossible but: Also if you use characters created in the 60s and earlier in your movies, toys and video games you don't have to worry about paying anyone any royalties because everyone back then got screwed out of their rights and then died. Therefore even a popular new character will not be afforded the same kind of visibility as a safe old one.
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Jul 1, 2016 09:43
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So I got Marvel Unlimited, the Illuminati trade and in non-Marvel news, Watchmen. It really sucks Illuminati got canceled and so it just ended with plotlines and character development hanging. I'm not gonna talk about its writing quality, I just liked that it seemed to give B-list supervillains - specifically my two favorite B-list supervillains - prominence. And then it just ends without resolving anything. I guess I can only hope AM and Titania, whenever they next appear, are happy together. Maybe AM will even get to properly fight the new Thor. He can be a legitimate threat! Anyway, looking at the endless list that is Marvel's June and July solicits, and hearing about all the other series that have been canceled, I shouldn't be surprised Illuminati didn't last. Seems to me they simply had too many books running. They threw everything they could out there and obviously a lot of it wasn't going to sell simply because it's a quantity issue. Overall it seems to be a dumb business strategy, regardless of how annoying it is as a reader.
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Jul 1, 2016 11:18
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I think it's pretty obvious that Marvel are trying something new here. When they've tried in the past to spin up new characters it hasn't usually worked out so they don't want to do that in their push for diverse characters. If they get rid of a major character and replace them with a legacy, they know people will want the original back and will, eventually, unseat the legacy. So they said gently caress it, everyone gets everything. Outside of Green Lantern and Flash, both of which have been poorly handled in recent years, I don't think this has really been done before, particularly not at Marvel. I think that eventually some of the legacies might take a new name, but will have their own following by then and can become a major character in their own right. Here's a question, who's the most recently created major original non-legacy character at Marvel? What about DC? "Major" is a slippery term, I know, but who's really competitive with the classic 40s-70s characters in terms of popularity and page count? Deadpool I guess?
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Jul 1, 2016 13:36
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Blue Beetle. One half of Firestorm too, I guess. Edit: Oh, nevermind, you said non-legacy. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 13:38
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Gilok posted:Here's a question, who's the most recently created major original non-legacy character at Marvel? What about DC? "Major" is a slippery term, I know, but who's really competitive with the classic 40s-70s characters in terms of popularity and page count? Deadpool I guess?
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Jul 1, 2016 13:48
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Harley and Deadpool really depend on how you define 'legacy', given the former's ties to the Joker and the latter to Weapon X. I'd say yes to the latter and no to the former.
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Jul 1, 2016 13:56
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Deadpool is also a huge ripoff of a pre-existing character.
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Jul 1, 2016 14:02
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So apparently post civil war there'll be a new Ewing ongoing called US Avengers. Starring Sunspot, Cannonball, Pod, Red Hulk, Squirrel Girl, a new Iron Patriot, and Danielle Cage. So is New Avengers ending or will Wiccan, Hulking, Hawkeye, Songbird, and White Tiger keep trucking on?
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Jul 1, 2016 15:16
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JoshTheStampede posted:So apparently post civil war there'll be a new Ewing ongoing called US Avengers. Starring Sunspot, Cannonball, Pod, Red Hulk, Squirrel Girl, a new Iron Patriot, and Danielle Cage. The articles I'm seeing about it don't say, but I got the feeling New Avengers was setting up the the New Avengers continuing on without direct leadership from Sunspot. Going off the physical sales numbers, the book wasn't selling amazingly but was doing decently enough that it's not in DOA territory. Also there are now 4 active Captain Americas running around in the world; Sam, Steve, Danielle, and the 2099 one from Spider-Man 2099. Looking forward to the upcoming Captains America team up book .
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Jul 1, 2016 15:32
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The cover image shows that Ewing and co have corrected a great evil, and ensured Thunderbolt Ross now keeps his might 'tache when he Hulks out. EDIT: On a related note, has anything come of that Citizen V tease from the last big round of promos? Or are we assuming that was shorthand for Thunderbolts? Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jul 1, 2016 |
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Jul 1, 2016 15:43
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Lurdiak posted:Deadpool is also a huge ripoff of a pre-existing character. Was. He's pretty clearly his own thing now.
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Jul 1, 2016 15:59
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