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if you told me "i can't believe jon moxley is wwe champ" i wouldn't believe you even had a passing familiarity with jon moxley 5 years ago
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Jul 1, 2016 17:51
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oatgan posted:if you told me "i can't believe jon moxley is wwe champ" i wouldn't believe you even had a passing familiarity with jon moxley 5 years ago
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Jul 1, 2016 17:58
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Spermgod posted:if you told me that Okada/Tana was a Flair/Steamboat level feud today i wouldn't believe you Agreed, the Flair/Steamboat trilogy didn't even draw!
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Jul 1, 2016 18:02
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If you told me five years ago that WWE would be really good then I would watch it and enjoy it.
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Jul 1, 2016 18:10
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IF you told me wcw came back in 2008 after vince sold it to mark cuban and it became successful again. i'd say... prove it you mother fucker
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Jul 1, 2016 18:13
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i saw moxley in dgusa (lol) back in like, either 09 or 10 and i thought he was just a pro wrestling version of the McPoyles from IASIP
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Jul 1, 2016 18:54
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How did DGUSA fizzle out, anyway? Just a lack of interest?
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Jul 1, 2016 20:36
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it became more difficult to book dragon gate guys in the US and as a result less gaijin were going to japan for short tours so EVOLVE gradually became the dominant brand as they phased out the dumb Real Sports Elements like win/loss records and strict power rankings and then they retired the belt and gave it to Johnny Gargano who was champ for like 3 years as a thank you for carrying the brand for long the evolve website is still dgusa.tv though
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Jul 1, 2016 21:21
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If you told me that an indie wrestler who has dedicated their life to wrestling worked their way up to the top wrestling company in the world years later, I totally wouldn't believe you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jul 1, 2016 21:32
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agreed
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Jul 1, 2016 21:36
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I'll be honest, if you told me five years ago that Jon Moxley was going to be WWE champion, I would ask you who Jon Moxley was.
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Jul 1, 2016 21:49
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projecthalaxy posted:I'll be honest, if you told me five years ago that Jon Moxley was going to be WWE champion, I would ask you who Jon Moxley was. and then i hope someone would have linked you to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5doU7nNx2W4
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Jul 1, 2016 22:39
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oatgan posted:it became more difficult to book dragon gate guys in the US and as a result less gaijin were going to japan for short tours so EVOLVE gradually became the dominant brand as they phased out the dumb Real Sports Elements like win/loss records and strict power rankings and then they retired the belt and gave it to Johnny Gargano who was champ for like 3 years as a thank you for carrying the brand for long but if you want to watch their shows you have to go to wwnlive.com. gabe is like comically bad at branding
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Jul 1, 2016 22:58
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projecthalaxy posted:I'll be honest, if you told me five years ago that Jon Moxley was going to be WWE champion, I would ask you who Jon Moxley was. and i would link this 
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Jul 1, 2016 23:04
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I think Owens should either turn the bullfrog splash into a finisher, or stop doing it/hitting it altogether. The move looks brutal and everyone would buy it as a finisher in a heartbeat. To let everyone kick out of it completely wastes the move.
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Jul 2, 2016 00:45
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Sionistic posted:I think Owens should either turn the bullfrog splash into a finisher, or stop doing it/hitting it altogether. The move looks brutal and everyone would buy it as a finisher in a heartbeat. To let everyone kick out of it completely wastes the move. You could say this about like 50 moves in WWE too. I know it's originally an indy thing, but the world now where a wrestler will hit a piledriver off the top rope through 5 flaming tables into a bed of nails and get a 1 count is a little ridiculous
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Jul 2, 2016 02:09
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Great White Hope posted:If you believe Dave Meltzer, NWA/WCW tried for almost decade to make Sting a star, he finally drew one buyrate that wasn't actually that impressive by being built for a year as the hero to stop the biggest faction in the history of wrestling, and then continued to fail to draw for almost 2 more decades after that as a top babyface. The problem with NWA/WCW booking was that they were convinced that the fans were more interested in seeing a guy challenge for the title than actually win it. A chase for the gold can be compelling, obviously, but when it fizzles out, it's hard to keep interest. It also didn't help that in the event win the face did actually win, for some reason they were really reluctant to make it a decisive victory. In the WWF, Hogan won his title with his leg drop, Macho Man beat DiBiase with the flying elbow, Warrior with the splash, Bret Hart with the Sharpshooter, while in the NWA, every time Flair lost the title, it was always a counter into quick pin, so the guy who beat him (Von Erich, Dusty, Steamboat, Sting) always came off more as just being lucky than being the better wrestler. Add to the fact that they'd quickly put the belt back onto Flair did nothing to add to a guy's mystique.
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Jul 2, 2016 02:21
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Is kicking Joey Ryan in the dick the equivalent of headbutting a Samoan?
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Jul 2, 2016 03:12
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Not quite, that would require his opponent to challenge him to a sword fight.
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Jul 2, 2016 03:15
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I hope that when Low Ki finally makes it to the WWE they treat him like a huge star and not saddle him with two divas and make him a joke
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Jul 2, 2016 04:13
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DEAR RICHARD posted:I hope that when Low Ki finally makes it to the WWE they treat him like a huge star and not saddle him with two divas and make him a joke There is justice in the world so they did what they did.
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Jul 2, 2016 04:57
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Davros1 posted:The problem with NWA/WCW booking was that they were convinced that the fans were more interested in seeing a guy challenge for the title than actually win it. A chase for the gold can be compelling, obviously, but when it fizzles out, it's hard to keep interest. It also didn't help that in the event win the face did actually win, for some reason they were really reluctant to make it a decisive victory. In the WWF, Hogan won his title with his leg drop, Macho Man beat DiBiase with the flying elbow, Warrior with the splash, Bret Hart with the Sharpshooter, while in the NWA, every time Flair lost the title, it was always a counter into quick pin, so the guy who beat him (Von Erich, Dusty, Steamboat, Sting) always came off more as just being lucky than being the better wrestler. Add to the fact that they'd quickly put the belt back onto Flair did nothing to add to a guy's mystique. It was a holdover ideology from the territorial days where there was only one NWA world champion and the various territories would have the share him. Every territory had its top face and rather than have a face champion tour around the country, counting on the champ's frequently non-existant national name value to fill the arena they framed it as 'local popular guy gets his shot at the title.' Ergo as a general rule the NWA champion had to be a heel. Once nationwide wrestling exposure became commonplace the notion that the champ had to be the heel rather than the draw just kinda stuck among the people handling the creative side of the company. One of Vince's early creative advantages was not being stuck in that mindset and realizing that a face champion vanquishing a monster of the week (in a proverbial sense) would draw better than a heel champion constantly deflating the crowd's hopes.
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Jul 2, 2016 05:11
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Spermgod posted:but if you want to watch their shows you have to go to wwnlive.com. gabe is like comically bad at branding It gets worse - he actually owns EvolveWrestling.com but doesn't put that in advertisements
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Jul 2, 2016 05:44
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If you had told me that Terra Ryzing would be running WWE
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Jul 2, 2016 06:00
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ChrisBTY posted:It was a holdover ideology from the territorial days where there was only one NWA world champion and the various territories would have the share him. Every territory had its top face and rather than have a face champion tour around the country, counting on the champ's frequently non-existant national name value to fill the arena they framed it as 'local popular guy gets his shot at the title.' Ergo as a general rule the NWA champion had to be a heel. Once nationwide wrestling exposure became commonplace the notion that the champ had to be the heel rather than the draw just kinda stuck among the people handling the creative side of the company. Wasn't Vince's mindset, that's just how the WWWF/WWF had always been booked (Bruno, Pedro, Backlund).
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Jul 2, 2016 13:03
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Davros1 posted:Wasn't Vince's mindset, that's just how the WWWF/WWF had always been booked (Bruno, Pedro, Backlund). How most successful promotions have been booked really. It's kinda funny that the "the money is in the chase" narrative was so popular among smarks for so long. I know I bought into it as a 13 year old.
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Jul 2, 2016 18:12
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WW(W)F/E spent most of it's time a regional without being a member of the NWA. As such it only makes sense to run with the biggest local star as champ rather than going with the heel champ, face chase formula. By going National when they did they essentially stayed a regional promotion where the region was the entire United States, their big face became everyone's big face. It also helps that rather than pushing local pride with Hogan they went full on American Patriot at a time when such feeling were running high.
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Jul 2, 2016 18:19
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The NWA Champion wasn't historically a heel anyway. He might play a subtle heel because deep down fans want to see a title change, but for the Muchnick era the NWA Champion was more often than not a face and was booked strongly. It was only after he stepped back that the NWA Champion started retaining weakly. It wasn't really until JCP started going down that you saw Ric Flair as a heel champion who retained by DQs and screwjobs either.
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Jul 2, 2016 18:21
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I guess it can be attributed to my general lack of knowledge of NWA world champions before the 80's. I really only knew Flair and Harley Race and Flair's assertion of how he was booked/how booking worked in the days when he was a touring NWA World Champion (which made a world of sense. Why have the guy who comes into town once a year clown your biggest draw?)
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Jul 2, 2016 19:39
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I think people confuse the money that comes from the ascent of a new star as coming from the chase
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Jul 2, 2016 20:05
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From what I am understanding now, wrestling kept up kayfabe even though 95% of the audience knew wrestling was fake. The audience helped the kayfabe narrative by using a night at the wrestling show as an excuse to throw things and maybe start a small riot. Wrestling has always been so dumb it doesn't even know how dumb it is.
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Jul 2, 2016 20:41
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MassRafTer posted:The NWA Champion wasn't historically a heel anyway. He might play a subtle heel because deep down fans want to see a title change, but for the Muchnick era the NWA Champion was more often than not a face and was booked strongly. It was only after he stepped back that the NWA Champion started retaining weakly. It wasn't really until JCP started going down that you saw Ric Flair as a heel champion who retained by DQs and screwjobs either. I just think this is mostly due to Dusty repeatedly trying to get the belt off Flair for good by putting it on himself or some other clown, then having to go back to Flair when the houses started suffering.
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Jul 3, 2016 00:11
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1st AD posted:I just think this is mostly due to Dusty repeatedly trying to get the belt off Flair for good by putting it on himself or some other clown, then having to go back to Flair when the houses started suffering. Yeah it was pretty much a creation of Dusty's booking. The NWA champion hadn't been booked as strongly as he had been under Muchnick in a few years but Dusty really hurt Flair and the belt's credibility during the decline.
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Jul 3, 2016 00:36
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:From what I am understanding now, wrestling kept up kayfabe even though 95% of the audience knew wrestling was fake. The audience helped the kayfabe narrative by using a night at the wrestling show as an excuse to throw things and maybe start a small riot. MRT, weren't you or someone else saying that there was a newspaper poll in the early 80s asking if people thought wrestling was real, and while people like Ole and Watts were saying 90% of fans would say yes, the vast majority knew it was staged? And this was in Memphis or St. Louis or another big wrestling city?
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Jul 3, 2016 03:22
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Halloween Jack posted:MRT, weren't you or someone else saying that there was a newspaper poll in the early 80s asking if people thought wrestling was real, and while people like Ole and Watts were saying 90% of fans would say yes, the vast majority knew it was staged? And this was in Memphis or St. Louis or another big wrestling city? I believe it was in Charlotte or Greensboro around the time of the first Starrcade. I think the result was 97% fake.
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Jul 3, 2016 03:27
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I feel like that's an unintentionally revealing question for its time though. If you ask someone who is unaware that another option exists, that option they hadn't considered previously is now available to them.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:44
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It was the Charlotte Observer iirc. One thing I'm not sure of is if it was a poll of people in general or wrestling fans.sticklefifer posted:I feel like that's an unintentionally revealing question for its time though. If you ask someone who is unaware that another option exists, that option they hadn't considered previously is now available to them. I think there's no way you could be a wrestling fan and not have at least encountered the idea of it being fake.
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Jul 3, 2016 07:30
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When did the concept of wrestling being a "work" really take off? From what I gather, American wrestling had its roots in carnival shows in the late 19th/early 20th century (hence the "crazy carnies" stereotype), and while the outcomes may or may have been predetermined, it was very much presented as a shoot contest. What was the point that most, if not every, person working in the business (to say nothing of the fans, who may have caught on far earlier than we think) approached it as more of a spectacle than a legitimate sporting event? Benne fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 07:46
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I'd say that's Vince McMahon's doing. He's primarily the one who pushed big soap opera storylines for feuds in favor of competitions. Everyone else just ran with it because it was successful.Spermgod posted:I think there's no way you could be a wrestling fan and not have at least encountered the idea of it being fake. Depends on the era you're talking about, or the ages of people asked, or their relative intelligence.
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Jul 3, 2016 10:31
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Such a bizarre question: WWE Network doesn't play shows when using Firefox. It plays the ads and the WWE logo at the beginning but when the show is due to start, I get an interminable spinning loop thing. I'm logged in fine, tried using Firefox Private Mode, uninstalled all add-ons, re-installed FF, no joy. Works perfectly in Chrome, obviously. Any advice?
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Jul 3, 2016 13:46
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