OwlFancier posted:

Gordon Brown isn't especially evil.

Coohoolin posted:

She does have nice eyes though.

I wonder if I could convert her. With the power of my sociology degree.

TomViolence posted:

This being National Action, a fascist youth organisation - and just from the looks of things - she's probably about 15.

Coohoolin posted:

Arghghghhhh whaaaaaat

How is a fascist youth organisation not illegal? I mean, adults, sure, you've got the freedom to have lovely political views, but how are they allowed to go around recruiting kids?

tetsul posted:

Don't try to deflect blame now, we all heard you. You are now legally required to stay 100 meters from any nazi schools and anywhere fascist children may be playing. You will be registered in a database so hate-mongering parents will know you're in the area.

quote:

Hypothetically if you could kill one person and get away with it who would you kill and why?

I would put Angela Merkel (without any protection) in one of her camps and let her pet refugees do the rest.

quote:

I am an NA activist living in Scotland and dedicated member of our organisation. I enjoy reading, browsing esoteric memes and watching the reds lose their poo poo over our publicity stunts.

quote:

Avid reader. Loves nature and animals. Loves European architecture and classical art. Enjoys walking, cooking, breathing. Memes are life. I feel so degenerate, like I’m writing a Tinder profile opening or something. Next!

quote:

Hypothetically if you could kill one person and get away with it who would you kill and why?

Is it terrible of me as a nationalist to choose Nigel Farage? Do I care? I just cannot stand civic nationalism, it’s so cucky, lock me in a room with the idiot and I’d skin and salt him for promoting it. It might seem more palatable to the general public, but it’s just halting any real progress for the nation and doesn’t get to the root of the rotten tooth that is multiculturalism. We need radicals in the right, not people who play ‘working class’ and relatable but who are too scared to make any change that would give us true security.

quote:

Hypothetically if you could kill one person and get away with it who would you kill and why?

Boris johnson! What an absolute shitshow that man is, I can’t stand him, he is like that idiot running UKIP, don’t know what it is with him but I think he’s a sly horrible devious man, an’ that Nicki Minaj! Id fit all 3 of them on baking tray and set them to gas mark 6!

forkboy84 posted:

Yeah, after they put up stickers in Glasgow I ended up reading their website. They seem like the worst of both the internet and fascism. The fawning over poo poo memes really lessens the fear factor. I mean maybe I'm just a crotchety auld fucker but "esoteric memes" is not a phrase any oval office should uttering, sincerely or otherwise.

tithin posted:

Was commenting on this earlier in Discord, and the general consensus is that when she's talking "esoteric" memes, she's talking "gently caress the jews" sorts of memes

Coohoolin posted:

How will I know which schools are the nazi schools?


EDIT: if you actually read the national action link *shudder* i think it says she's 19.

Edit 2: nope, that's another contestant. Hah, I didn't even notice it was different people. Look at this poo poo though

keep punching joe posted:

Extreme0: Having now taken the chance to read through the past weeks opinion pieces in the Tory press, it would appear that the holy trinity of the Scottish right wing commentariat are all in the process of making the No to Undecided journey (depending on how things pan out over the next few months).

Extreme0 posted:

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1359352-dossier-of-no-campaign-broken-promises-published-by-snp/

Really? Especially at this time right now?

tithin posted:

It's a pre-emptive strike against an argument to stay in the UK "we listened once, and look at all the poo poo that was promised, and subsequently broken - how can we trust these liars??"

I'd expect a formal announcement of indyref2 within a month tbh

Extreme0 posted:

I would of waited till after the election of the new tory leader and to see what the stances of the other parties are. Doing this I feel like only alienates possible support from the other parties which is something they need.

PiCroft posted:

The prospect of indyref2 worries me. None of the economic arguments from the first round have been answered. In fact, the collapse in oil prices if anything makes it harder to justify. Lots of previous No voters I know have turned Yes or at least undecided since the EU ref result, but all of them have cited the EU ref specifically, not a change in economics. I'm worried people are letting an emotive result cloud their judgement.

I get that what we signed up to in the last ref has kinda fallen apart, but in my mind this hasn't answered the unanswered questions of the previous referendum.

tithin posted:

True, Scottish Labour / Greens are ostensibly behind staying in the EU at all costs hence they were behind sending Sturgeon to Brussels to negotiate staying in. It's not a given to say that they'd support independence at all costs, but it's a reasonable assumption.

My personal thoughts are that the SNP are looking at this as a time limited opportunity - public outrage will only last so long, and with Labour divided, and the tories leaderless, this is possibly their last big shot to push for independence.

I'm surprised they couldn't get anyone from labour / tories to comment on the inappropriateness of this list - do the scottish lib dems even have an MP?

Just my 2p

TomViolence posted:

I'm looking forward to a referendum 2.0 where Scotland bottles it yet again.

TomViolence posted:

I'm looking forward to a referendum 2.0 where Scotland bottles it yet again

PiCroft posted:

The prospect of indyref2 worries me. None of the economic arguments from the first round have been answered. In fact, the collapse in oil prices if anything makes it harder to justify. Lots of previous No voters I know have turned Yes or at least undecided since the EU ref result, but all of them have cited the EU ref specifically, not a change in economics. I'm worried people are letting an emotive result cloud their judgement.

I get that what we signed up to in the last ref has kinda fallen apart, but in my mind this hasn't answered the unanswered questions of the previous referendum.

quote:

BREXIT could be expanded into a “package deal” that lets an independent Scotland stay in the EU as well as allowing the UK to leave it, according to an expert on European law.

Dr Merijn Chamon also says the SNP government should hold an independence referendum as soon as the UK embarks on Brexit to get the best deal from Brussels.

He said the untried Brexit procedure, known as Article 50, could be adapted to include a newly independent Scotland remaining in the EU - instead of leaving temporarily and rejoining as a new applicant - and could help it keep some of the UK’s opt-outs.

The UK currently has opt-outs from the euro, the passport-free Schengen travel area, the charter of fundamental rights, and justice and security issues.

Once the next Prime Minister invokes Article 50 it starts a two-year countdown to Brexit during which the UK will negotiate exit terms with other EU states.

Nicola Sturgeon has said Brexit, despite Scotland voting against it, has made a second independence referendum “highly likely” in those two years.

Dr Chamon, of the Ghent European Law Institute in Belgium, told the Sunday Herald the SNP government should hold a referendum right away to get the time and authority to negotiate optimal membership terms with the EU.

A swift Yes could also help Scotland avoid the usual EU entry process, known as Article 49, which would mean starting from scratch, with no opt-outs and a commitment to the euro.

He said: “Once the Prime Minister gives the Article 50 notification, then I think the Scottish Government would have a good reason to say, ‘Now we hold [a referendum]’. I would do it as fast as possible after the Article 50 notification.

“If people vote for independence, then the Scottish Government would have a very clear mandate to go to Brussels and other member states and demand the Article 50 procedure does not simply deal with the UK, but deals with the Scottish situation as well.

“If the referendum is pro-independence then the Scottish Government simply presents a fait accompli to the member states. Basically, you end up in a situation where you cannot keep Article 50 simply for getting the UK out, you’re obliged to make a bigger package deal. In the ideal situation for Scotland, you don’t need Article 49, you just do it using Article 50.”

He said that because Brexit was unprecedented Scotland could credibly push for a bespoke deal.

“The fact is that, in the law, we don’t have anything prescribed for the Scottish situation. We have Article 50 that says you can take a state out but there is no procedure for a part of a member state becoming a member state in its own right, or for part of a member state to retain membership while the rest of the state leaves the EU. So you could adapt Article 50.”

He said a deal would ultimately come down to politics, with agreement needed from the rest of the UK and a consensus among the other 27 EU member states.

He said Scotland’s starting position with the EU would naturally be to keep all the UK’s opt-outs, but some would inevitably be negotiated away, including possibly the euro opt-out.

However he said Sweden had also committed to adopting the euro, but had avoided it by the simple “trick” of not going through the preliminary stage of eurozone membership.

“It’s one of these symbolic issues, but the politicians can be very pragmatic,” he said.

His comments echo those of Dr Kirsty Hughes, a former senior adviser in the European Commission, who last week said an early independence referendum was “logical”.

A Scottish Government source said: "This is an interesting contribution. Many key players in ?Europe are indicating they are open to finding a solution for Scotland. If an independence referendum is the chosen route then this suggestion, or something like it, may well come into play."

quote:

THE relationship between Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale and her deputy has completely broken down, according to a senior party source.

Dugdale's friends claim that Alex Rowley has been undisciplined and cannot be relied on to support her.

But her deputy hit back robustly, saying: “I think it’s absolutely shocking. I am not going to get into the gutter. That’s where these people want to be. They are destroying the Labour party.”

The tensions may get worse this month when Dugdale flies to the US for a leadership programme, creating a potential power vacuum.

Labour at Westminster has undergone a traumatic week after dozens of Corbyn's colleagues quit their ministerial posts and called on the left-winger to quit.

Dugdale and Rowley, who were elected leader and deputy leader of Scottish Labour last year, clashed on Corbyn’s future. The split became evident last week when the party’s sole MP, Ian Murray, quit as Corbyn’s shadow Scotland secretary. Despite Murray being a close ally of Dugdale, Rowley accused the MP of putting “self-interest before the needs of the country”.

Dugdale later said it would be “difficult” for Corbyn to continue in post – a clear indication she wants him to resign - but Rowley signed a letter backing the embattled left-wing leader.

One senior Scottish Labour source said: “Their relationship has completely broken down."

A second party insider also queried Rowley’s support for Corbyn: “It’s odd, given that Alex believed Corbyn wasn’t popular on the doorsteps during the Holyrood election.” A third party source said of Rowley: “He couldn’t have been more unhelpful if he had tried.”

Another Dugdale ally believes Rowley has failed to behave like a deputy leader since he won the post. Within days of taking on the role, he called for a referendum on Trident renewal, which is not Scottish Labour policy.

He has also policy freelanced on the constitution by supporting home rule, a position that has not been adopted by his party.

Asked by this newspaper about the party figures who believe he has undermined Dugdale, Rowley said: “Those who would claim that have no foundation for it whatsoever…My criticism is not of Kez.”

On whether he supports Dugdale’s position on Corbyn, he said: “No, I don’t. [Just] because I am the elected deputy leader of the Labour Party in Scotland doesn’t mean I have to endorse a statement that calls for the leader of the Labour Party to go.”

Asked whether he, as deputy leader, should be supporting the leader of the Scottish Labour party, he said: “Against a coup against the leader of the UK party? No.”

Refusing to confirm or deny that his relationship with Dugdale had broken down he said only, “I can’t speak for Kez. All I can say is I will continue to work as the deputy leader.” And asked how his relationship was with her just now he said: “I had a good chat with her this morning.”

Another party source said: “Alex’s problem is that he is hard of hearing. When the leadership results were announced, he seems to have believed that he was crowned leader.”

Dugdale’s attendance on the US State Department’s International Visitor Leadership Program this month may also create a headache for her party, with relations between the two at a low ebb insiders are speculating about who will lead the party when she is abroad.

It is understood Dugdale will remain in charge while she is away and a rota for Shadow Cabinet members will be in place to provide day-to-day cover.

quote:

"We are more than five million men and women - adults, young people and children - each with our own life stories, family histories and our own hopes and dreams.

"We are the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the thousands who came from Ireland to work in our shipyards and our factories.

"We are the 80,000 Polish people, the 8,000 Lithuanians, the 7,000 each from France, Spain, Germany, Italy and Latvia, who are among the many from countries beyond our shores that we are so privileged to have living here amongst us.

"We are the more than half a million people born in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, who have chosen to live in Scotland.

"We are the thousands of European students studying at our universities and colleges.

"And we are the doctors and nurses from all across our continent and beyond who care for us daily in our National Health Service.

"Whether we have lived here for generations or are new Scots, from Europe, India, Pakistan, Africa and countries across the globe, we are all of this, and more.

"We are so much stronger for the diversity that shapes us.

"We are one Scotland and we are simply home to all those who choose to live here."

Coohoolin posted:

Hahaha holy poo poo those heels.

Ok everything is just wonderfully bizarre. Scotlab tearing itself up over Corbyn, the EU pretty much winking at us to bail and go party with them, and Ruthie being Ruthie.

Oh and Nicola is still fantastic.

jre posted:

I'm looking forward to idiots growing up and not describing people voting a different way as "bottling it"

Extreme0 posted:

Regarde Aduck posted:

Looking forward to leave voters chanting "this is fine, this is fine" as the top of the UK falls off.

TomViolence posted:

Do you feel as charitable about the Brexit result I wonder? It's entirely fine and grown up to think the people who made a bad decision made the wrong decision. Though really I was more talking about the giving in to fear and negativity that characterised those in the no camp and, oddly enough, seems to have clinched the Leave vote in the EU referendum too -- not that there was a side offering any hope in that one.

jre posted:

Again, you could grow up a bit and realise that people voted no in the indy ref not out of " fear and negativity" but because the case for independence put forward by the SNP was awful. People voted no because they believed it was the best thing for the country , not because they were afraid or bottled it.

Also "project fear" was how the remain camp was characterised, indeed I recall Boris Johnstone giving it "hope over fear" at one stage so your second point doesn't make any sense at all.

Kin posted:

People didn't vote out of fear because the SNP weren't able to put together a sound enough case to overcome uncertainty/fear that came from being a separate entity to the UK?