|
Kim Jong Il posted:It's quite clear that Palestinian violence is driven by ethnic supremacism. Or you know, the desire for you and your people to not be ethnically cleansed. But you know, drat them all to hell for that filthy supremacism, that you and yours shouldn't be ground down for the crime of existing with the wrong color and creed.
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 05:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 16:41 |
|
|
Kim Jong Il posted:You're completely ignoring intentionality. It's fine to say that dead kids are dead kids whatever the reason, but that's not what you're saying, you're refusing to argue and smearing anyone who disagrees with you. There's a metric fuckton of racism and violence on the Palestinian side, and it can't be handwaved away by Saeb Erekat style arguments that occupation gives them a free pass to commit any horrible crime under the sun. This doesn't seem to relate to what Ylata posted at all, so I think you've not read the quote trail properly and are both misreading Dead Reckoning's post and then incorrectly assigning it to Ylata. quote:It's quite clear that Palestinian violence is driven by ethnic supremacism. Technically correct in that Palestinian violence is driven by Israeli ethnic supremacism.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 06:37
|
|
|
Kim Jong Il posted:You're completely ignoring intentionality. It's fine to say that dead kids are dead kids whatever the reason, but that's not what you're saying, you're refusing to argue and smearing anyone who disagrees with you. There's a metric fuckton of racism and violence on the Palestinian side, and it can't be handwaved away by Saeb Erekat style arguments that occupation gives them a free pass to commit any horrible crime under the sun. But on the other hand, Palestinian terrorism gives to the Israeli a free pass to commit any horrible crime under the sun, no problem.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 06:51
|
|
|
post
Friendly Factory fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jun 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 07:55
|
|
|
Ultramega posted:She needs to put the triple parentheses around her twitter handle to show that she's down with the zionist conspiracy and all that stupid bullshit. Well that came out of nowhere, considering her twitter account didn't have the "triple parentheses"(which is apparently referred to as the 'echo'). What's wrong with expressing solidarity in opposing antisemitism online? Why is it any more "goofy" than, say, expressing support for LGBT rights
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 08:15
|
|
|
Ultramega posted:And israeli violence against palestinians is equally horrible, no? team overhead smash posted:However to treat it as just that does a disservice to the lopsided nature of the conflict, even beyond the asymmetric nature of the conflict. If the Palestinian Territories are under occupation by Israel, then the occupation authorities have fairly wide latitude under LOAC to detain people without trial until the cessation of hostilities, freedom to dictate governance to a large extent, and freedom to move their military forces through the territory unimpeded, but assume responsibility for the welfare of the Palestinian people. If the Palestinian Territories aren't under occupation, that raises a whole other set of questions, mostly surrounding the de facto state or war that exists between the Territories and Israel, and possibly each other. You can't have it both ways, one set of your complaints or the other is unfounded. team overhead smash posted:I agree with the principles, but those principles don't apply to the Palestinians. Your whole argument seems to be based on the premise that necklacing people, assassination, terror bombing, and threatening the families of politicians is OK as long as you're on the weaker side (and that side is morally approved by you personally). It's a fundamentally flawed idea, because it legitimizes groups like ISIS, and encourages a state of perpetual conflict where terrorism is a valid alternative to surrender. icantfindaname posted:You're talking about accountable, morally justified states, not ethnic supremacist, colonial apartheid states Swan Curry posted:lol if you think israel and its army is accountable for its actions
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 08:17
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:You don't understand what accountable means in this case. Just because the UN or whomever can't put Israel over a barrel and make them comply with whatever norms you have in mind doesn't mean their soldiers aren't accountable to competent authority. SS commandos were accountable to their superior officers and to the German general staff. Therefore, Nazis did nothing wrong
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 08:24
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:
my god, man
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 08:28
|
|
|
"are...are we the baddies?"
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 08:29
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:If the Palestinian Territories are under occupation by Israel, then the occupation authorities have fairly wide latitude under LOAC to detain people without trial until the cessation of hostilities, freedom to dictate governance to a large extent, and freedom to move their military forces through the territory unimpeded, but assume responsibility for the welfare of the Palestinian people. If the Palestinian Territories aren't under occupation, that raises a whole other set of questions, mostly surrounding the de facto state or war that exists between the Territories and Israel, and possibly each other. You can't have it both ways, one set of your complaints or the other is unfounded. Unless by "assuming responsibility" you mean "making drat sure they don't have any"; then yes in that case they are assuming responsibility to the utmost. Dead Reckoning posted:The only moral war crime is my side's war crime. Palestine is in a state of surrender; the Palestinian authority is submissive and collaborative. What more do you want? For every single Palestinian to pledge their life to the service of an Israeli master, calling them "Bwana" and licking their shoes clean every night? Palestinian terrorist groups appear because the endless oppression is intolerable and they don't see anything else they could do.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 09:31
|
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:Palestine is in a state of surrender; the Palestinian authority is submissive and collaborative. What more do you want? For every single Palestinian to pledge their life to the service of an Israeli master, calling them "Bwana" and licking their shoes clean every night? Palestinian terrorist groups appear because the endless oppression is intolerable and they don't see anything else they could do. Not firing rockets at kindergartners would be nice, and stop stabbin'.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 09:38
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:If the Palestinian Territories are under occupation by Israel, then the occupation authorities have fairly wide latitude under LOAC to detain people without trial until the cessation of hostilities, freedom to dictate governance to a large extent, and freedom to move their military forces through the territory unimpeded, but assume responsibility for the welfare of the Palestinian people. If the Palestinian Territories aren't under occupation, that raises a whole other set of questions, mostly surrounding the de facto state or war that exists between the Territories and Israel, and possibly each other. You can't have it both ways, one set of your complaints or the other is unfounded. I'm pretty sure that's exactly the issue with the illegal occupation. Israel is currently having it both ways because they have deliberately refrained from defining the occupation. "Well at least half of what they're doing must be legitimate" is exactly the kind of bullshit reasoning that has allowed it to continue for so long, and I'm frankly flabbergasted that you would sincerely argue this. Also pretty smooth job omitting torture from the quote you posted and just not commenting on it. Dead Reckoning posted:The only moral war crime is my side's war crime. Just to be clear, are you of the position that any resistance movement is invalid and legitimizes groups like ISIS if it opposes a state sanctioned force with violent means, but can't expect to effect meaningful change? Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 09:59
|
|
|
Baloogan posted:Not firing rockets at kindergartners would be nice, and stop stabbin'.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 10:24
|
|
|
yeah it would be nice 
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 10:25
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:There is no moral principle that obliges the stronger side to limit their force to that which their opponents can muster. I at no point make an argument revolving around such a point and actually go out of my way to state that this isn't what I'm talking about, so  quote:If the Palestinian Territories are under occupation by Israel, then the occupation authorities have fairly wide latitude under LOAC to detain people without trial until the cessation of hostilities, freedom to dictate governance to a large extent, and freedom to move their military forces through the territory unimpeded, but assume responsibility for the welfare of the Palestinian people. If the Palestinian Territories aren't under occupation, that raises a whole other set of questions, mostly surrounding the de facto state or war that exists between the Territories and Israel, and possibly each other. You can't have it both ways, one set of your complaints or the other is unfounded. I think you're lacking a lot of info about Israel and about international law, both in specifics and generalities. Now first of all, you can toss away the "If the Palestinian Territories aren't under occupation". There really isn't any worthwhile discussion to be had there and it's just. That horse bolted decades ago, was shot dead and you're just flogging the corpse. The only bit that might be slightly confusing to some is the status of Gaza post-withdrawal if considered independently as Israel exerts control but doesn't have troops stationed on their land. That's resolved by looking at the precedent set by Germany in WW2 in relation to Greece and Yugoslavia and seeing that yes, it's still under occupation. So in relation to israel and it's occupation, the one good point you raise is that it's impossible to have an occupation both ways - although you do get the point rear end backwards. The issue in that regard is with israel. Israel is occupying the Palestinian Territories. Israel is constantly breaking the law and committing war crimes in relation to how you are meant to treat an occupied territory. Israel isn't allowed to slaughter civilians. israel isn't allowed to torture civilians or militants. israel isn't allowed to destroy buildings as punishment. Isreal isn't allowed to progress a campaign of ethnic cleansing by removing people from their land, walling them off and moving their own population into the stolen land. Israel isn't allowed to restrict the entire population's freedom to travel, forcing them to live in enclaves. This is all fairly non-contentious stuff. The criticism you level should be directed at Israel and it's hard to see how you could miss the hypocrisy of your point. In relation to the specific claim you make that "the occupation authorities have fairly wide latitude under LOAC to detain people without trial until the cessation of hostilities", this is wrong. While it is possible in veeery rare cases to hold someone without trial, this is nothing like the way that Israel holds people - in large amounts for seemingly any cause, tortured, with no proof of a crime committed, the prisoners having no ability to state their case and defend themselves, etc. The rare situational case where this is possible in no way conforms to Israel's constant and systematic method of imprisonment without trial. To quote B'tselem, an Israeli humans rights organisation: "Under international law, it is allowed under certain circumstances. However, because of the serious injury to due-process rights inherent in this measure and the obvious danger of its abuse, international law has placed rigid restrictions on its application. According to international law, administrative detention can be used only in the most exceptional cases, as the last means available for preventing danger that cannot be thwarted by less harmful means." "Israel's use of administrative detention blatantly violates the restrictions of international law. Israel carries it out in a highly classified manner that denies detainees the possibility of mounting a proper defense. Moreover, the detention has no upper time limit. Over the years, Israel has placed thousands of Palestinians in administrative detention for prolonged periods of time, without trying them, without informing them of the charges against them, and without allowing them or their counsel to examine the evidence. In this way, the military judicial system ignores the right to freedom and due process, the right of defendants to state their case, and the presumption of innocence, all of which are protections clearly enshrined in both Israeli and international law." The ability to hold people without trial is very narrow, not wide as you tried to claim. The violations by Israel are flagrant, not debatable. Lastly, if we lived in some alternate universe where Israel occupied Palestine without all these specific violations, it would still be a massive problem and Israel's occupation would still be the underlying cause. An occupation is a temporary military governance of a country while the new status quo is settled, not a series of excuses you use while you slowly work to annex another country. Even if in the details Israel stopped their war crimes, they would still be in the wrong and provoking violence by keeping a people oppressed and under occupation for decades. quote:The only moral war crime is my side's war crime. Did you even read what I wrote or is this just some kneejerk reaction on your part to defend Israel's warcrimes by throwing out random unjustified accusations? You've literally pulled this out your rear end. Disagree? feel free to quote any part of my posts where I support what you claim. quote:You don't understand what accountable means in this case. Just because the UN or whomever can't put Israel over a barrel and make them comply with whatever norms you have in mind doesn't mean their soldiers aren't accountable to competent authority. No, detailed expert analyses which have looked at Israel and the lack of accountability it is under are what makes them unaccoutnable ON TOP of the fact that it doesn't answer to an international body. I mean for a decade the Military Police Investigations Unit didn't even loving investigate israelis killed by palestinians. But oh, I'm sure that magically it was all perfect because you insinuate it was with no evidence. I mention this being "ON TOP of the fact that it doesn't answer to an international body" because your response is in no way an answer. Structurally, self-regulation is a very poor set-up. In-groups should not be left to judge for themselves if they are doing okay. It's the entire reason international bodies were put together to oversee this stuff, otherwise every tin-pot dictator and genocidal country would just go "Yep, everything's a-okay and there are perfectly justified reasons for anything that looks bad". Baloogan posted:Not firing rockets at kindergartners would be nice, and stop stabbin'. You're half-right but the problem is twofold: 1) You don't get to commit war crimes just because someone committed war crimes against you. That's not how the system works. Although Palestinians should stop their war crimes right now regardless of anything else, that shouldn't be a factor in whether Israel stops their war crimes right now (which seemed to be what Cat mattress was getting at). 2) People are going to attack Israel and do so in violation of the laws of war as long as the occupation continues. It happens in these situations. People are oppressed, they lash out. It happened in India when freakin' Ghandi was running the show because there is no hive mind for people's individual actions or guerrilla style militant groups so it sure as poo poo isn't going to stop in Palestine. Using the excuse of waiting until there are no more attacks to stop the occupation is basically the same as saying "Okay, we're going to rule you forever and you can never have freedom". This doesn't apply to Israel because the core of Israel's actions are specifically state co-ordinated and not the ad-hoc actions or individuals or independent militant groups. With this in mind, the solution to stop the rockets and the stabbing is to stop the occupation (and its composite war crimes) and the attacks on Palestinians. Holding out hope for anything else is foolish because otherwise there is always going to be some violence and some of it is always going to be a war crime while insisting on it is immoral.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 11:40
|
|
|
team overhead smash posted:1) You don't get to commit war crimes just because someone committed war crimes against you. That's not how the system works. What system? "International Law" is a nice thing to say, but it isn't global, and it isn't law everywhere. And doesn't have jurisdiction over the US or Israel in particular. quote:This doesn't apply to Israel because the core of Israel's actions are specifically state co-ordinated and not the ad-hoc actions or individuals or independent militant groups. So Hamas doesn't count as state co-ordinated? There aren't any 'rules of war'. Perhaps there should be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPOFJMlqyIY
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 12:07
|
|
|
Baloogan posted:What system? "International Law" is a nice thing to say, but it isn't global, and it isn't law everywhere. And doesn't have jurisdiction over the US or Israel in particular. Well this was in response to you so if you weren't talking about international law as your basis for why rockets and stabbings should be stopped, you were presumably using your own morality as the guidelines. As the laws in this case were formulated on the basis of a common morality and largely forged from the horror of the atrocities committed in light of WW2 and a desire to never see such crimes reenacted, international law should go hand in hand with morality in this case and I believe my argument still applies. quote:So Hamas doesn't count as state co-ordinated? No. They have minimal control of their territory, aren't viewed as the legitimate representatives of the Palestinians by most people/nations and lack the monopoly on violence that a normal state would be expected to have. For instance they can influence but don't control other groups like PIJ and even then their influence is limited. Hamas certainly has a big say in the level of violence that is carried out (as is shown by the massive reduction in attacks when they'd had ceasefires) but their control is still limited (as shown by the fact that the attacks still continue during ceasefires even with Israel blaming Hamas for any and all attacks carried out and by most accounts them legitimately trying to stop them). Even if Hamas tried to stop people spontaneously going and stabbing an Israeli, some Palestinians would still go and spontaneously stab an Israel. It is simply impossible for Hamas to stop the core violence Israel objects to because of the spontaneous grass roots way it can occur. Conversely, if Israel stops dropping bombs on Palestinians, radical settlers aren't going to develop, engineer and pilot their own air force. If Israel tears down the West Bank wall, Israeli aren't going to rebuild and man a 400 Km wall. Coordinated Palestinian action cannot stop the core actions that Israel objects to, which is basically any violence against Israelis. They can lower it, but they've done that before and the occupation still didn't end. Coordinated Israeli action can stop the core actions that Palestine objects to because almost all of the violence and oppression is only possible because of the state, which then produces a scenario where the violence from Palestinians can realistically be expected to stop. Both should stop their actions regardless of what the other does, but realistically expecting Palestinians to be the ones to stop first is absurd and using it as a prerequisite for ending the occupation is incredibly harmful seeing as it's a goal that can never be met until the occupation has ended.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 12:46
|
|
|
Israelis and Palestinians should stop killing each other.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 13:07
|
|
|
The Insect Court posted:Well that came out of nowhere, considering her twitter account didn't have the "triple parentheses"(which is apparently referred to as the 'echo'). I'm not surprised you of all people would defend pointless social media grandstanding. It was brave to stand up to antisemites in 1938, in 2016? It's sort of a given that the majority of the world's population are not antisemitic. Unless of course you start dredging up poo poo like ethnic biotruths like how arabs are irrationally hateful toward jews or some other nationalist chauvinist talking points.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 16:20
|
|
|
Baloogan posted:Not firing rockets at kindergartners would be nice, and stop stabbin'. Bottle Rockets can be dangerous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpqiHchsbE0
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 16:28
|
|
|
I personally see the brackets mostly used as a big rolleyes and laff at the idiot neonazi plot, which I can only approve of. Some idiots used it for grandstanding and soapboxes but come on, that always happens.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 16:29
|
|
|
Baloogan posted:Israelis and Palestinians should stop killing each other. You know what this thread needs? Some decent music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m2K-bUGX50
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 16:39
|
|
|
Baloogan posted:Not firing rockets at kindergartners would be nice, and stop stabbin'. At this point most of the stabbings are just suicide-by-IDF
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:18
|
|
|
Friendly Factory posted:The irony... it's delicious I'm arguing every single point tirelessly and have never said that anyone who disagrees with me is inherently racist. team overhead smash posted:Technically correct in that Palestinian violence is driven by Israeli ethnic supremacism. No, it's driven by their beliefs that Israelis must be ethnically cleansed. The equivalents of Kahane have wide and powerful traction on the Palestinian side, and it's handwaved away as "legitimate resistance" when it's nothing of the sort. This maximalist belief, that Israel must be eliminated, is not the official position of the Palestinian Authority, but it is widely believed and supported. I'd argue that while Omar Barghouti and his movement don't explicitly call for this, it's an inevitable end result of their platform. They're not calling for ending settlements, because in their policy of dismissing "collaborationists" they reject the only possible path for ending settlements. They're calling for policies that will lead to wide scale ethnic cleansing and likely genocide. Yardbomb posted:Or you know, the desire for you and your people to not be ethnically cleansed. What percentage of Palestinians believe that no Jews should live in the West Bank? What percentage of them believe that no Jews should live anywhere where they have irredentist claims? That's ethnic supremacism. I've solely criticized this wide scale irredentism, not legitimate desire to end occupation, checkpoints, and illegal settlements. Cat Mattress posted:But on the other hand, Palestinian terrorism gives to the Israeli a free pass to commit any horrible crime under the sun, no problem. That's a strawman. People like Ytlaya are saying Palestinian racism is acceptable and not a big deal. I've condemned Israel when it's made mistakes, I've merely demanded the same consistency and for upholding international law, norms, and consensus here. It can't be these concepts matter when you agree with their end result, then you can conveniently ignore them when they don't. Kim Jong Il fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:20
|
|
|
NLJP posted:I'm pretty sure the argument usually then goes 'ah ha! But they would if they could so we must always prevent them any means of doing so'. This of course means grinding even the idea of cooperation with and support of a truly functioning Palestinian state into the dust. It also means that if someone holds that idea in their head there is essentially no arguing with them because in this kind of sick realpolitik, emiseration and slow, grinding ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians is the only possible logical step. I feel our friend Kim Jong Il represents this exactly so I brought this post back.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:47
|
|
|
Kim Jong Il posted:That's a strawman. Listen man I'm real happy that you got 99% of your population to accept their status as untermenschen, but some dude fired off a bottlerocket made of piss and sugar. So we're gonna have to to keep expanding the settlements. It'd be inconsistent not too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
team overhead smash posted:Technically correct in that Palestinian violence is driven by Israeli ethnic supremacism. Yardbomb posted:Or you know, the desire for you and your people to not be ethnically cleansed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:04
|
|
|
Parts Kit posted:You guys kind of conveniently ignore the whole "drive Israel into the sea" thing, huh? We certainly don't ignore that even if all the Palestinians hold said view, it is a clancy-esque fantasy impossibility.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:06
|
|
|
NLJP posted:We certainly don't ignore that even if all the Palestinians hold said view, it is a clancy-esque fantasy impossibility.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:09
|
|
|
Parts Kit posted:You guys kind of conveniently ignore the whole "drive Israel into the sea" thing, huh? What is your point, exactly? Should we commit a Holocaust every time we see a racist facebook comment written in Hebrew? Should we reboot the Civil War every time a confederate flag is flown in Texas? Should we strip every Brexit voter and their relatives of their citizenship, ship them to Scotland, and then build a giant wall to keep them there?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:14
|
|
|
Parts Kit posted:You guys kind of conveniently ignore the whole "drive Israel into the sea" thing, huh? NLJP posted:I'm pretty sure the argument usually then goes 'ah ha! But they would if they could so we must always prevent them any means of doing so'. This of course means grinding even the idea of cooperation with and support of a truly functioning Palestinian state into the dust. It also means that if someone holds that idea in their head there is essentially no arguing with them because in this kind of sick realpolitik, emiseration and slow, grinding ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians is the only possible logical step.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:15
|
|
|
So long as even a single haji thinks badly of us we have to keep slaughtering them. How else will we make them stop hating us?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:16
|
|
|
Parts Kit posted:So racist ethnic cleansers are only an issue if they can theoretically succeed and not when they launch rockets at random into civilian living areas? For some reason palestinian racism gets filed away under a pile of continuously expanding settlements and punitive military expeditions that bomb water treatment plants. Weird.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:17
|
|
|
YodaTFK posted:For some reason palestinian racism gets filed away under a pile of continuously expanding settlements and punitive military expeditions that bomb water treatment plants. Weird. We shouldn't have freed the slaves because if interviewed you probably would find that most of them didn't like white people very much.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:18
|
|
|
Kajeesus posted:What is your point, exactly? quote:Should we commit a Holocaust every time we see a racist facebook comment written in Hebrew? Should we reboot the Civil War every time a confederate flag is flown in Texas? Should we strip every Brexit voter and their relatives of their citizenship, ship them to Scotland, and then build a giant wall to keep them there? Schizotek posted:So long as even a single haji thinks badly of us we have to keep slaughtering them. How else will we make them stop hating us? Nevvy Z posted:We shouldn't have freed the slaves because if interviewed you probably would find that most of them didn't like white people very much.  you guys are really hosed up in the head if you think these things.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:34
|
|
|
Parts Kit posted:
Um, maybe you should recognize that the problem is rooted in both sides and combat it instead of going "this side bad, other side justified" ? Because the reality is this poo poo isn't going to stop until both sides decide to put down their hate.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:38
|
|
|
The onus upon reducing the level of violence lies only with the sovereign. Hate is the product of the foreign tyranny imposed upon palestinians and the byproduct of their just resistance campaign among the indoctrinated Israeli population. The first step towards fixing a problem goes through refraining from actively causing it, this little bit of wisdom is swept under the rug as the Israeli government gets to pretend that the escalation of violence is a force majeure. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:45
|
|
|
Kajeesus posted:Um, maybe you should recognize that the problem is rooted in both sides and combat it instead of going "this side bad, other side justified" ? Because the reality is this poo poo isn't going to stop until both sides decide to put down their hate. I'm guessing that won't happen before Gaza's water supply runs out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:45
|
|
|
emanresu tnuocca posted:The onus upon reducing the level of violence lies only with the sovereign. Hate is the product of the foreign tyranny imposed upon palestinians and the byproduct of their just resistance campaign among the indoctrinated Israeli population. A good pattern is how the UK eventually dealt with Irish terrorism. Negotiating while bombs are still being set off turns out to work ok sometimes, who knew.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 16:41 |
|
|
Schizotek posted:You know what this thread needs? Some decent music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC-g5I-QsH4
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:57
|
|