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qhat posted:To clarify, what I meant about it not really being a good answer is it says nothing about where more money needs to go. i.e are the resources bad and cheap, teachers underpaid, not enough teachers actually being paid, etc. It sounds like from your post and others that actually it's all of the above? Yeah, classes are too big (not money for enough teachers) and teachers (who are clever people and have other places to go, particularly as the recession has eased) aren't really given incentives to stay (not enough pay for individual teachers).
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Jul 3, 2016 18:53
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qhat posted:What exactly is the UK doing wrong wrt education? "not enough money" isn't really a good answer. The fact that the largest provider of education materials, testing etc in the UK (Pearson) is in a world of poo poo for corruption in the US with no comparable legal action here in the UK as far as I am aware is pretty telling.
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Jul 3, 2016 18:53
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OvineYeast posted:There's a system of schools called 'academies' which are independent of local control and often sponsored by private foundations, similar to charter schools in US. Tory plan was to forcibly turn all schools into academies. They've stepped back on that but they're still pressuring schools into becoming academies in general. Also a lot of perfectly good but old school buildings were torn down and rebuilt as pretty useless (for teaching) modern buildings during the first rollout of academies in London. It was a huge waste of money and time and yes the modern charter school system as proposed allowed the sponsors to shape the curriculum.
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Jul 3, 2016 18:54
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jiggerypokery posted:The fact that the largest provider of education materials, testing etc in the UK (Pearson) is in a world of poo poo for corruption in the US with no comparable legal action here in the UK as far as I am aware is pretty telling. Yep, that too. The testing structure (what little I've found out about it anyway) iis pretty hideous.
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Jul 3, 2016 18:55
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I must say, as much as I enjoyed the GOP thread, I feel that the change to UKMT was worth it. It's like following an american show and then watching the original UK version, and realize that while the plot is pretty much the same and the original may have less special effects and is harder to follow, the elaborate story lines and cynical world view provide greater entertainment.
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Jul 3, 2016 18:55
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Rincewinds posted:I must say, as much as I enjoyed the GOP thread, I feel that the change to UKMT was worth it. It's like following an american show and then watching the original UK version, and realize that while the plot is pretty much the same and the original may have less special effects and is harder to follow, the elaborate story lines and cynical world view provide greater entertainment. Did you know we made the original 'House of Cards'?
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Jul 3, 2016 19:00
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Also I think the ukmt has been more of a good read recently because there has been a lot of genuinely stupid and dramatic poo poo happening over the past month
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Jul 3, 2016 19:04
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NLJP posted:It's worth mentioning that however many people from other communities move in around you, nothing's stoping you personally from being English As All Hell (well, except the police if you take it to a real extreme I guess) nothing more English than going out and killing foreigns
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Jul 3, 2016 19:05
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jiggerypokery posted:Did you know we made the original 'House of Cards'? Which looks like our current politics would look like if any of our politicians had even a shred of competence!
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Jul 3, 2016 19:07
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qhat posted:Also I think the ukmt has been more of a good read recently because there has been a lot of genuinely stupid and dramatic poo poo happening over the past month  As a dumb American trying to understand British politics, I've learned more in the last month than in the last several years combined. You guys sure do know how to put on a show.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:08
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The education thing is a good soundbite and all, but the people who most voted against Brexit were educated 40-50 years ago. The British education system's hopefully come a long way since then. Maybe having strong education now will prevent a similar disaster half a century down the line.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:08
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Francis Urquhart is looking pretty good right now
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Jul 3, 2016 19:09
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Angepain posted:nothing more English than going out and killing foreigns Did you know that "Wales" means foreigners? Literally the first thing the English did as a people was to show up in someone else's country and complain about all the foreigners, setting the stage nicely for the following 1500 years.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:11
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qhat posted:Francis Urquhart is looking pretty good right now He had David Cameron's agenda with many times the competence. He managed to turn Britain into a hellhole ruined by austerity while getting rid of a troublesome King and he stayed in power without shooting himself in the head. He had someone else do it for him
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Jul 3, 2016 19:13
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Baron Corbyn posted:Did you know that "Wales" means foreigners? Literally the first thing the English did as a people was to show up in someone else's country and complain about all the foreigners, setting the stage nicely for the following 1500 years. in fairness we did a little more than complain that time
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Jul 3, 2016 19:14
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OvineYeast posted:in fairness we did a little more than complain that time You could replace "complain about" with "murder" in my joke and it wouldn't be any less true.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:15
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Antti posted:The education thing is a good soundbite and all, but the people who most voted against Brexit were educated 40-50 years ago. The British education system's hopefully come a long way since then. Maybe having strong education now will prevent a similar disaster half a century down the line. It hasn't come on as far as you might hope.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:16
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By the way, speaking of Wales. In her hagiography of Angela Eagle, Polly Toynbee mentions Owen Smith as an aside, and randomly drops in that he can't be the next Labour leader because he's Welsh (he represents a Welsh constituency but is actually English). Why would him being Welsh have any relevance?
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Jul 3, 2016 19:22
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Jose posted:that sort of died. Nope, and in fact has been expanded
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Jul 3, 2016 19:23
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jiggerypokery posted:Did you know we made the original 'House of Cards'?
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Jul 3, 2016 19:23
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Baron Corbyn posted:By the way, speaking of Wales. In her hagiography of Angela Eagle, Polly Toynbee mentions Owen Smith as an aside, and randomly drops in that he can't be the next Labour leader because he's Welsh (he represents a Welsh constituency but is actually English). Why would him being Welsh have any relevance? Cause the last Welsh prime Minster was David Lloyd George and we all know how well that worked out. Now Welsh people are banned from prime ministering, it's the called the Arthur Pendragon Law. Basically the only time a Welshman can be leader is if the prophets say a global war is likely to break out. Which is why Stephen Crabb is the most likely next Prime Minster. Edit; But seriously, "some say" is basically code for "no good reason but if I make it sound like people have that opinion it becomes fact by fake popular decree" UnquietDream fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 19:29
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Nope, and in fact has been expanded Yeah, it definitely has not died. All schools will probably be academised by 2020.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:29
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Baron Corbyn posted:By the way, speaking of Wales. In her hagiography of Angela Eagle, Polly Toynbee mentions Owen Smith as an aside, and randomly drops in that he can't be the next Labour leader because he's Welsh (he represents a Welsh constituency but is actually English). Why would him being Welsh have any relevance? English Votes for English Laws innit
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Jul 3, 2016 19:34
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angela eagle lol
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Jul 3, 2016 19:41
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Looke posted:angela eagle lol She's going to win leadership and destroy the dread May, I'm 99% sure.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:45
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Every Academy Trust that Cameron or Gove have visited or mentioned by name has been embroiled in a financial scandal.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:45
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Not Operator posted:She's going to win leadership and destroy the dread May, I'm 99% sure. 
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Jul 3, 2016 19:46
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Not Operator posted:She's going to win leadership and destroy the dread May, I'm 99% sure. I'm not sure the tories would let her enter the competition though I feel that she might win if she did.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:47
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Baron Corbyn posted:By the way, speaking of Wales. In her hagiography of Angela Eagle, Polly Toynbee mentions Owen Smith as an aside, and randomly drops in that he can't be the next Labour leader because he's Welsh (he represents a Welsh constituency but is actually English). Why would him being Welsh have any relevance?  Less then a month after this knockout blow, she would come third, with less then one third of Corbyn's votes.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:49
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Total Meatlove posted:Every Academy Trust that Cameron or Gove have visited or mentioned by name has been embroiled in a financial scandal. I'm shocked that the Tories would do such a th... oh wait no I'm not.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:56
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tooterfish posted:It's almost as if the primary function of these things is not to improve educational standards, but to funnel tax money into private hands. The plan is to do it quietly and without any fuss, not as Perry Groves thought, paying a third party a shitload of money to employ your 'executive head' on an additional salary.
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Jul 3, 2016 20:02
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qhat posted:What exactly is the UK doing wrong wrt education? "not enough money" isn't really a good answer. Much like healthcare, the two sides of the equation are the amount of people using the system and the capacity of the system (which broadly correlates with investment). If the system is struggling, you can either say "it needs more money" or "it needs fewer users (and the same amount of money)". One of these options is inherently monstrous and not worth considering by any civilised person. PS when I read that tweet that was all "poor education is the cause of brexit" my first thought wasn't of idiot proles getting gulled by the media, but of the fact that most leading politicians all went to the same few schools.
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Jul 3, 2016 20:08
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I really do wish school taught civics more. Or rather, at all.
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Jul 3, 2016 20:10
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OwlFancier posted:I really do wish school taught civics more. In what way would that be in the interest of the Conservative Party?
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Jul 3, 2016 20:13
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Baron Corbyn posted:By the way, speaking of Wales. In her hagiography of Angela Eagle, Polly Toynbee mentions Owen Smith as an aside, and randomly drops in that he can't be the next Labour leader because he's Welsh (he represents a Welsh constituency but is actually English). Why would him being Welsh have any relevance? I wouldn't call Owen Smith English to his face. He was born in England sure but raised in Wales and is dad is Dai Smith, former chair of the arts council of Wales and prominent welsh (and welsh labour) historian.
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Jul 3, 2016 20:13
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Gort posted:In what way would that be in the interest of the Conservative Party? It might allow them to just lose elections instead of die in nuclear fire/in a guillotine eventually.
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Jul 3, 2016 20:15
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I'm just concerned how utterly without explanation her statement was. Welsh people can no longer become PM? When did this happen?
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Jul 3, 2016 20:16
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Regarde Aduck posted:I'm just concerned how utterly without explanation her statement was. Welsh people can no longer become PM? When did this happen? I think it's just standard classism - regional accents aren't Electable
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Jul 3, 2016 20:17
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He'll just waste all the countriy's money on male vocal choirs and leeks
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Jul 3, 2016 20:20
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kustomkarkommando posted:I wouldn't call Owen Smith English to his face.  MrL_JaKiri posted:I think it's just standard classism - regional accents aren't Electable
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Jul 3, 2016 20:20
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