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The Lone Badger posted:Counterpoint: In modern America the Navy's Army has an Air Force. They don't operate those ships, the Navy does.
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Jul 3, 2016 01:33
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Frosted Flake posted:
Only if you don't read the records of the people they were fighting against.
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Jul 3, 2016 02:15
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:They don't operate those ships, the Navy does. I believe his point was that the Navy operates them, and their escorts, entirely separately from the Navy's primary surface action groups and CVBGs. So, the Navy's Army's Air Force has its own Navy?
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Jul 3, 2016 02:47
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For some reason the Axis all had that going on. One tiny sliver of this is the airborne forces. The IJN and IJA both had paratroops, so did the Luftwaffe and SS, and I'm not quite sure what was going on with the Italians as the three traditional forces and Blackshirts all had overlapping special forces.
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Jul 3, 2016 03:34
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Frosted Flake posted:For some reason the Axis all had that going on. One tiny sliver of this is the airborne forces. The IJN and IJA both had paratroops, so did the Luftwaffe and SS, and I'm not quite sure what was going on with the Italians as the three traditional forces and Blackshirts all had overlapping special forces. Didn't the IJA have some weird stuff, like the air force being part of the army and therefore a few AF carriers were the Army's property?
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Jul 3, 2016 04:07
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The IJN and IJA had their own separate air forces.
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Jul 3, 2016 04:15
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MrYenko posted:I believe his point was that the Navy operates them, and their escorts, entirely separately from the Navy's primary surface action groups and CVBGs. Except they don't operate entirely separately. In an actual no-poo poo amphibious operation the CVBGs would be covering the amphibious ships.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:15
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Didn't the IJA have some weird stuff, like the air force being part of the army and therefore a few AF carriers were the Army's property? The IJA had a handful of what I seem to remember were escort carriers, the IJN had land based aviation (honestly not the worst idea in the Pacific to have them in the same hierarchy so they can collaborate on scouting and strike, it worked pretty well in practice early in the war, although a scheduled delivery of fighters to Rabaul hosed them badly at Coral Sea). More hilariously the IJA ran the draft and apparently didn't consider the IJN's civilian employees exempt.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:27
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Doesn't the US Army operate ships? I seem to remember reading that in WW2, the Army Transportation Corps had dozens of no poo poo ocean going vessels.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:41
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xthetenth posted:More hilariously the IJA ran the draft and apparently didn't consider the IJN's civilian employees exempt. I have it on good authority* that a lot of this stems from the navy and army getting their brass from the descendants of two old daimyo families who'd hated each other since Sekigahara or something. True/false? *I may have read this at some point somewhere, possibly in the Shogun II FotS documentation or a menu at a ramen place.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:43
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I have it on good authority* that a lot of this stems from the navy and army getting their brass from the descendants of two old daimyo families who'd hated each other since Sekigahara or something. True/false? Pretty sure it gets some mention in Kaigun, but it's been a while since I read that one.
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Jul 3, 2016 05:51
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HEY GAL, what words were used to describe the men thought to be invincible to normal weapons? I've seen you mention "Frozen" and "Hard", was there much other vocabulary around this concept?
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Jul 3, 2016 08:41
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wizzards
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Jul 3, 2016 08:54
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I have it on good authority* that a lot of this stems from the navy and army getting their brass from the descendants of two old daimyo families who'd hated each other since Sekigahara or something. True/false? There were generals and admirals coming from both Satsuma and Choshu domains, so I don't think there was a strict clan-based separation. Japan had limited resources, so the army and navy were going to come into conflict regardless. But Showa Japan was a nasty cataclysm of everything bad about Japanese and European culture, so everything escalated poorly. "Hostile work environment" wouldn't describe the least of it. Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 10:16
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MrYenko posted:I believe his point was that the Navy operates them, and their escorts, entirely separately from the Navy's primary surface action groups and CVBGs. Not to be outdone, if China has organic Marine Air ships they would be the People's Liberation Army Navy Army Air Force Navy.
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Jul 3, 2016 12:00
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In fairness, the character for the "Army" in People's Liberation Army could be read as "Military".
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Jul 3, 2016 13:36
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Frosted Flake posted:Doesn't the US Army operate ships? Yes, they have at least two huge transports chilling in Pearl Harbor technically on an Air Force base....
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Jul 3, 2016 13:46
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Frosted Flake posted:Doesn't the US Army operate ships? im pretty sure in ww2 the army had more ships than the navy did nowadays is it is just stationary ships used as prepo bases and the corps of engineers river dredging things
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Jul 3, 2016 14:22
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ArchangeI posted:In fairness, the character for the "Army" in People's Liberation Army could be read as "Military". Yeah, this is really a product of western translators insisting on individually translating every single character. If you do the same for the Chinese name for the Royal Navy you end up with something like England's Royal Family's Sea Army. Fangz fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 14:34
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For the sake of clearly naming each organisation I'd say jts worth it. it's like naming the Emperor of Russia the Tsar instead. It's not technically correct, but it helps you keep track of every ruler running around, to give you something different.
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Jul 3, 2016 15:39
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Fangz posted:Yeah, this is really a product of western translators insisting on individually translating every single character. If you do the same for the Chinese name for the Royal Navy you end up with something like England's Royal Family's Sea Army. They use it themselves so kind of hard to blame everything on the West.
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Jul 3, 2016 16:31
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中國人民解放軍海軍? You can't translate character-by-character. That's like translating English every time letters end up forming a word. (ie so "time" gets parsed as Tim + 'e' ; it makes so sense.) If, for whatever reason, you must do that it should be : "Center Kingdom People Group Division Direction Military Sea Military". Or, you know, you could translate accurately.
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Jul 3, 2016 16:59
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Ataxerxes posted:In the Swedish system both the last and the first man of the 6 man file were designated, they were supposed to be more experienced than the rest to keep the files orderly and to stop the ones in the middle from running. the spanish called experienced dudes lance passades and payed them more. the mansfeld regiment might have as well, a lance passade appears as a witness in one trial, but i don't have their rolls, which are prob. in spain remember the swedes are not as new, hot, and different as they liked to say they are HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 17:11
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I have it on good authority* that a lot of this stems from the navy and army getting their brass from the descendants of two old daimyo families who'd hated each other since Sekigahara or something. True/false? That was a factor, but I don't think it was that big of one. The army and navy also had directly opposite priorities and ambitions, and since Japan didn't have the resources to do everything, the two fought bitterly over whose plans should get the majority of backing. The army wanted to Japan to focus on conquering China, the navy wanted to focus on expanding into the Pacific, and because the military was so deeply tied to the political direction of things it became a particularly bitter rivalry.
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Jul 3, 2016 17:12
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Kemper Boyd posted:Sweden was kinda weird. They still used pikes in the Great Northern War.
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Jul 3, 2016 17:17
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Frosted Flake posted:In combat, each unit performed well, against both the Western Allies and Soviets.
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Jul 3, 2016 17:21
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Chamale posted:HEY GAL, what words were used to describe the men thought to be invincible to normal weapons? I've seen you mention "Frozen" and "Hard", was there much other vocabulary around this concept?
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Jul 3, 2016 17:22
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HEY GAL posted:just those, iirc. why? Because that poo poo's dope. I'm thinking about putting together an early modern modpack for Skyrim, and if I mod in some bulletproof generals it could make for some interesting assassination missions.
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Jul 3, 2016 17:36
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Chamale posted:Because that poo poo's dope. I'm thinking about putting together an early modern modpack for Skyrim, and if I mod in some bulletproof generals it could make for some interesting assassination missions. I would reinstall skyrim to play that
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Jul 3, 2016 17:41
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Chamale posted:Because that poo poo's dope. I'm thinking about putting together an early modern modpack for Skyrim, and if I mod in some bulletproof generals it could make for some interesting assassination missions. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gefrorener edit: like i'm not sure if "fest" should really be "hard," it's the "fast" of "standfast" as well and i don't think we have a single word for it after we stopped using "fast" in that way. "toughened"? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 18:07
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HEY GAL posted:you know german, right? peep this for more words 'hardened' is still a word?
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Jul 3, 2016 19:15
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That's an amazing idea for a mod. The translation should maybe deliberately be a bit wonky and something that isn't used in modern parlance, for atmosphere's sake. Toughened and hardened are used in modern milspeak I'm pretty sure. Maybe "firmed"? The first time I saw "Fallschirm-Panzer Division" in a computer game I was 100% sure that some American nerd with a poor grasp of German had made it up. But nope. Turn back Hermann Göring, nooo! Is there a good recent bio of Göring in German or English? I see that Overy did one in 86, that oughtta be solid? e: oh god quote:„Rechts Lametta, links Lametta, quote:In 1938, Göring acquired via "aryanizing purchase" the Fromms Rubber Works, giving him a monopoly in the manufacture of condoms, especially thanks to deliveries to the Wehrmacht. I read Longerich's recent Himmler bio and Himmler apparently monopolized the German production of mineral water. If you wanted to illustrate in a sentence these two chucklefucks' respective characters you could do worse.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:16
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HEY GAL posted:you know german, right? peep this for more words We still use steadfast in English.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:36
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This photo makes me think of why no one invented the drinking straw for knights.
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Jul 3, 2016 19:46
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also this weekend my hauptmann set fire to some things. and i threw up. this wasn't at the same time, but they were two things that happened. content: i learned that Dönitz's surrender agreement said that he didn't want Germany to be "as destroyed as it had been in the Thirty Years' War," which means that at some point he and his aides were crouched in rubble, Berlin having been flattened, looking at one another, and one of them goes "You know, it could be worse." Edit: Or so I was led to believe--can't find that anywhere, so it might be bullshit? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jul 3, 2016 |
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Jul 3, 2016 19:48
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Except they don't operate entirely separately. In an actual no-poo poo amphibious operation the CVBGs would be covering the amphibious ships. Then why did we need the F-35B so badly? 
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Jul 3, 2016 20:14
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HEY GAL posted:also this weekend my hauptmann set fire to some things. and i threw up. this wasn't at the same time, but they were two things that happened. See I always pictured it going something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHnyQXyuTGY
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Jul 3, 2016 20:43
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Nenonen posted:Also, a plane looking for subs doesn't have to drop a single bomb to have an effect - it just needs to be there, to deny submarines free surface movement in day time. But this isn't specific to 4-engine bombers except for their range and flight time. This is a point important enough to repeat. What the British found throughout World War 2 was that anytime a convoy had air cover, U-boat attacks went down considerably. A unit of Coastal Command Sunderlands was stationed in Sub-Saharan Africa, and while they didn't score a single confirmed U-boat sunk, their air patrols reduced casualties considerably in mid/south Atlantic convoys. MrYenko posted:Then why did we need the F-35B so badly? Question Congress never asked
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Jul 3, 2016 21:15
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HEY GAL posted:Edit: Or so I was led to believe--can't find that anywhere, so it might be bullshit? I can't remember if it was you or Peter Wilson, but somebody said that until recently, the Thirty Years War was just "The War" or "The Great War", but that might be something lost in the Chinese whispers.
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Jul 3, 2016 21:41
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Hazzard posted:I can't remember if it was you or Peter Wilson, but somebody said that until recently, the Thirty Years War was just "The War" or "The Great War", but that might be something lost in the Chinese whispers. http://zeughausverlag.de/militargeschichte/das-kursaechsische-heer-im-dreissigjaehrigen-krieg/
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Jul 3, 2016 21:48
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