|
Should I stay or should I go? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Please stay |
|
195 | 31.20% |
| Go away |
|
136 | 21.76% |
| Who cares? |
|
99 | 15.84% |
| gently caress you op, your soccer sucks and your tea tastes like poo poo! |
|
195 | 31.20% |
| Total: | 625 votes | ||
|
RobattoJesus posted:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/03/games-brexit-escapism-halo-animal-crossing-mario lol this has to be satire
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 18:33 |
|
|
I hate yankees posted:lol this has to be satire no, ageing flower children can actually be this delusional
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:54
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
kikkelivelho posted:If democracy fails we'll be in the dumpsters anyway, might as well keep our rights while we fall this referendum is a failure of democracy because suddenly a population that almost never does any direct democracy and is completely uninformed was asked to vote on the most hilariously complex decision the country has made in decades
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:55
|
|
|
blowfish posted:this referendum is a failure of democracy because suddenly a population that almost never does any direct democracy and is completely uninformed was asked to vote on the most hilariously complex decision the country has made in decades People in D&D were making this same argument saying people are too dumb to vote and there should be test to make sure they are informed. How is this not class warfare? If anything the referendum showed that democracy still works and the citizens of the UK still have control over their future.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 17:57
|
|
|
kikkelivelho posted:People in D&D were making this same argument saying people are too dumb to vote and there should be test to make sure they are informed. How is this not class warfare? If anything the referendum showed that democracy still works and the citizens of the UK still have control over their future. thats not the same argument
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:00
|
|
|
kikkelivelho posted:People in D&D were making this same argument saying people are too dumb to vote and there should be test to make sure they are informed. How is this not class warfare? If anything the referendum showed that democracy still works and the citizens of the UK still have control over their future. Yes, they had the wonderful choice between keeping a lovely status quo and jumping off a cliff, whereupon they chose to jump off the cliff. Technically the electorate decided but unless you think ~they voted~ is a good of its own even if it has disastrous consequences this is an example of how you don't do it. There is a reason that successful countries with reasonably free elections almost invariably have a parliament consisting of representatives (who make choices in the interest of the electorate, not just agree with whatever 50%+1 of their constituents say) instead of or in addition to one consisting of delegates (who are supposed to just say what the 50%+1 of their constituents say). Direct democracy only really works if everyone is informed about the issues they need to make decisions on, and if people base their vote on something beyond short term FYGM. If the first is not the case it means referendums degenerate into being a generic "my life sucks y/n" opinion poll about the status quo that's unrelated to actual policy (this is the case in the UK with its godawful media), and if the latter is the case you have a tyranny of the majority where you can just get 50%+1 to agree that all those drat immigrants need to be deported or shot (this is also very possibly the case in the UK). There's also the additional fact that having to personally vote on everything gets tedious, people have better things to do, and cannot possibly become experts on every single important issue, so it's a net positive to just have some representatives do it for you full time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:09
|
|
|
Lichy posted:thats not the same argument There are some similarities for sure
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:09
|
|
|
kikkelivelho posted:There are some similarities for sure There are also important differences. There are good reasons to consider the electorate too uninformed or plain stupid to directly decide what's best for itself, but straight-up preventing people from voting tends to lead to oppression of some groups in practice so it's a bad idea. Instead you let the electorate vote for representatives who (in theory) aren't complete idiots and who can get voted out of office if they fail to improve the lives of the electorate.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:18
|
|
|
Whole lotta fascists itt
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:21
|
|
|
blowfish posted:also there is no real world difference between making GBS threads on 52% of all people vs making GBS threads on 48% of all people so uk politicians currently have a strong mandate to poo poo on the half that is stupider Quoting for truth and adding that only 27% of the population voted to Leave, and only 37% of the total electorate. While most of those who did not vote can reasonably be said to have squandered their opportunity to express their opinion, it's known that people who favor the status quo are less likely to vote, so Leave was inherently favored, and thus it should have been accounted for in the counting (by adding a winning margin) that people favoring Remain were more likely not to make it to the polling station than those favoring Leave. Additionally, voting Leave was a protest vote for many people, even if they may not have realized that a Leave win (that they may not have expected) would most likely be against their best interests. If non-votes were counted as abstentions or if voting had been compulsory, then Leave would not have had a majority and Remain might even have won. Well, this is nice to think about for the next time a referendum occurs, but the rules can't be retrospectively changed for this one. Fortunately, the referendum was not legally binding and the policy to leave the EU cannot be enacted without a parlimentary vote, which will fail, so Brexit is unlikely to occur as a result of this referendum alone. The best way out of this situation for the government would be to call for a parlimentary vote ASAP on whether the result of the advisory referendum is convincing or weighty enough to enact Article 50. Cameron should have done this before resigning, but then he shouldn't have used the referendum as an electoral tool in the first place, so...
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:25
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:Whole lotta fascists itt the more people on the losing side cry about how democracy has failed the more I'm convinced that it's working just fine
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:41
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:the more people on the losing side cry about how democracy has failed the more I'm convinced that it's working just fine the cries of horror and disgust from passerbys only strengthen my resolve to stuff this giant drill up my butthole
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:45
|
|
|
also the proper way to count people who didn't vote is as "i don't care" because no matter how much they are now whining about it they clearly did not actually care enough to spend even the smallest amount of effort on it
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:45
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:the more people on the losing side cry about how democracy has failed the more I'm convinced that it's working just fine ok but what if democracy just sank britain into the atlantic
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:45
|
|
|
blowfish posted:ok but what if democracy just sank britain into the atlantic then I guess the people in favor of breathing air must have run a loving lovely campaign because now most people would rather drown than listen to them
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:47
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:then I guess the people in favor of breathing air must have run a loving lovely campaign because now most people would rather drown than listen to them this is true tho
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:48
|
|
|
Jeremy Bernard Corbyn will sort all this poo poo out, don't you worry.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:49
|
|
|
blowfish posted:There are also important differences. The representative who called for the referendum was voted in by the people
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 18:51
|
|
|
Well if the UK doesn't have the mandate to leave the EU, but also doesn't have the mandate to stay in the EU obviously the UK should be a part of the EU on mondays, wednesdays, and fridays and it's own sovereign state at weekends and tuesday + thursday. Can I be prime minister now?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:25
|
|
|
Usually, when talking about an election, a 'mandate' does not mean simply 'winning.' Usually, it means landslide. So like when the US President has a 'mandate' it's when he trounced his opponent in the general and Congress better play ball with him because the public has loudly spoken. carry on with your retarded poo poo now folks
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 19:57
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:also the proper way to count people who didn't vote is as "i don't care" because no matter how much they are now whining about it they clearly did not actually care enough to spend even the smallest amount of effort on it Yeah this is the first time a vote has really felt like its on the people. In the general elections you're just voting for the same poo poo in different clothes, and it's essentially pointless.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:10
|
|
|
RobattoJesus posted:Well if the UK doesn't have the mandate to leave the EU, but also doesn't have the mandate to stay in the EU obviously the UK should be a part of the EU on mondays, wednesdays, and fridays and it's own sovereign state at weekends and tuesday + thursday. Can I be prime minister now? Depends, what's your ratio of boy to pig loving?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:13
|
|
|
kikkelivelho posted:The representative who called for the referendum was voted in by the people This is the part where, in practice, the elected representative actually was a complete idiot and failed in his duties. Cameron being a complete failure being further evidenced by him not planning for a Brexit vote happening despite the polling being really close, and by him failing to do anything to even try to save the country after the Brexit vote happened even a week later. cock hero flux posted:then I guess the people in favor of breathing air must have run a loving lovely campaign because now most people would rather drown than listen to them I know this must be a shock to you, but saving the people from drowning should take precedence over them having voted to drown.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:17
|
|
|
kikkelivelho posted:The representative who called for the referendum was voted in by the people who then resigned immediately it is worth pointing out
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:18
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:Usually, when talking about an election, a 'mandate' does not mean simply 'winning.' Usually, it means landslide. So like when the US President has a 'mandate' it's when he trounced his opponent in the general and Congress better play ball with him because the public has loudly spoken. from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_%28politics%29 "The concept of a government having a legitimate mandate to govern via the fair winning of a democratic election is a central idea of representative democracy." I agree that mandate has started to be misused by the left to mean "I didn't vote for this therefore it's not valid" though. Dreddout posted:Depends, what's your ratio of boy to pig loving? 100% pigs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
the UK made its bed and now it has to lie in it, no taksie backsies but you did all gently caress yourselves hardcore and it's gonna be a miserable couple years for you RobattoJesus posted:from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_%28politics%29 I understand that but don't pretend like 'mandate' doesn't have a specific vernacular usage when you're talking about 'degree by which the vote was won.' Look 2 lines lower from that same link: quote:Elections, especially ones with a large margin of victory, are often said to give the newly elected government or elected official an implicit mandate to put into effect certain policies.[2] Everyone knows when you say 'mandate' you mean 'large margin of victory' 90% of the time so idk why the whole thread has collectively forgotten that to argue with each other about it. the leavers won, get over it. no they don't have a clear mandate, but too bad that's how democracy works sometimes. if the simple majority vote is an issue now, it should have been an issue beforehand but both sides thought they'd win so they didn't say peep about it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
mandate like most things in political science is a loosely defined term but i don't think its loose enough to say gently caress you to 48% of the population, much unlike OPs mother
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
Happy Independence, UK!
Cartouche fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:32
|
|
|
Lichy posted:mandate like most things in political science is a loosely defined term but i don't think its loose enough to say gently caress you to 48% of the population, much unlike OPs mother Well staying in would be saying gently caress you to 52% of the population. It's a binary choice to a binary question, it's not like you can "kinda" leave the EU. (ok, you can and that's probably what's going to happen) Also yes mandate is a good word that has been hosed up by idiots.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:32
|
|
|
DP
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:35
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:the leavers won, get over it. no they don't have a clear mandate If mandate means clear mandate then this is a tautology. FUKKEN OWNED. *walks off into the sunset*
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:38
|
|
|
i just mostly think it is silly that now that the election is over everyone is nitpicking the methodology like gently caress you rear end in a top hat if it really was an issue you would have brought this up BEFORE the vote but you didn't because you thought you'd win and now it's only a problem because you lost
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:40
|
|
|
RobattoJesus posted:I agree that mandate has started to be misused by idiots across the political spectrum to mean "I didn't vote for this therefore it's not valid" though. ftfy, see for example the UK right now
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:i just mostly think it is silly that now that the election is over everyone is nitpicking the methodology like gently caress you rear end in a top hat if it really was an issue you would have brought this up BEFORE the vote but you didn't because you thought you'd win and now it's only a problem because you lost well the leave side pre-emptively said that if they barely lost that wouldn't count, so they became assholes first
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
blowfish posted:ftfy, see for example the UK right now The left started it with the whole occupy "we are the 99%" which turned into "we are the 63%" or whatever in the 2015 election and now it's all percentages all day long. But yes like all political memes it's now fully infected idiots on all sides.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:53
|
|
|
So if the argument is that you shouldn't let people vote for important decision in referendums, why would you let them vote people into the government? If they don't understand issues like the brexit why would they understand poo poo like the national budget? There's also no guarantee that the politicians who get into power are smarter than the people who voted for them (see everyone involved with the brexit). The argument against referendums is an argument against democracy itself.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:54
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:i just mostly think it is silly that now that the election is over everyone is nitpicking the methodology like gently caress you rear end in a top hat if it really was an issue you would have brought this up BEFORE the vote but you didn't because you thought you'd win and now it's only a problem because you lost how closely did you follow the referendum before it happened?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 20:59
|
|
|
kikkelivelho posted:So if the argument is that you shouldn't let people vote for important decision in referendums, why would you let them vote people into the government? If they don't understand issues like the brexit why would they understand poo poo like the national budget? There's also no guarantee that the politicians who get into power are smarter than the people who voted for them (see everyone involved with the brexit). The argument against referendums is an argument against democracy itself. People are supposed to vote for someone they trust to have their best interests at heart while not being a certifiable retard, without actually needing to understand every single issue that might come up during their lifetimes. And even though the politicians themselves might not be super smart, they can at least treat making policy as a full-time job while making use of actual experts. Or we could try to implement a functioning extra technocrat chamber of government as an extra check and balance that shoots down blatant bullshit. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jul 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 21:05
|
|
|
kikkelivelho posted:So if the argument is that you shouldn't let people vote for important decision in referendums, why would you let them vote people into the government? If they don't understand issues like the brexit why would they understand poo poo like the national budget? There's also no guarantee that the politicians who get into power are smarter than the people who voted for them (see everyone involved with the brexit). The argument against referendums is an argument against democracy itself. nobodys arguing this in this thread. perhaps you should go back to d&d where you can be owned with a lot of words instead of one-liners
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 18:33 |
|
|
blowfish posted:
incorrect
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2016 21:06
|
|