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Tesseraction posted:This is part of why his campaign was the most authentic IMO. Presumably you must have found the Leave campaign more compelling for you to give it your vote?
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Jul 4, 2016 09:47
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Pissflaps posted:I find it odd that somebody whose shtick is being a man of principle would abandon them at the first major electoral test. Sometimes principles conflict and you have to choose one.
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Jul 4, 2016 09:48
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LemonDrizzle posted:That is to say, he is spouting exactly the same delusional guff as the Tory brexiteers, which is tantamount to demanding the ability to have your cake, eat it, regurgitate it completely intact, and then eat it all over again. No, actually; you'll note neither of them are attempting to say we should have single market access and also block immigrants somehow. That's the have your cake and eat it position bojo was trying to sell.
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Jul 4, 2016 09:50
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Pissflaps posted:Presumably you must have found the Leave campaign more compelling for you to give it your vote? I voted along my personal conviction, but I could easily have campaigned for Remain if I was called to it. If I was in power, I would never have held such a stupid and divisive referendum and would probably have pushed for closer EU integration. Mind you I'd have pushed for press regulation long before that so I wouldn't have the uphill battle of facts that this one had.
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Jul 4, 2016 09:50
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Pissflaps posted:I find it odd that somebody whose shtick is being a man of principle would abandon them at the first major electoral test. The extreme right in the UK is worse than the centre right EU. Given the choice between two evils you should choose the lesser.
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Jul 4, 2016 09:53
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Pissflaps posted:I find it odd that somebody whose shtick is being a man of principle would abandon them at the first major electoral test. I find it odd that somebody whose schtick is being an unrelenting pedant would be unable to comprehend nuance in this particular context.
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Jul 4, 2016 09:55
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Renaissance Robot posted:No, actually; you'll note neither of them are attempting to say we should have single market access and also block immigrants somehow. That's the have your cake and eat it position bojo was trying to sell.
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Jul 4, 2016 09:56
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Pissflaps posted:I find it odd that somebody whose shtick is being a man of principle would abandon them at the first major electoral test. Having reservations about the EU but still deciding on measure it's better to stay within it and try for reforms than go it alone isn't unprincipled. Even wanting to possibly leave it, but not on Tory terms so not at this referendum isn't unprincipled either. Speaking personally Corbyn and Varoufakis' "yeah it's a bit poo poo but let's not be silly here" approach did more to convince me to Remain simply because there was some nuance there.
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Jul 4, 2016 09:56
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LemonDrizzle posted:McDonnell says he accepts that free movement will end but that Britain must retain single market access and financial services passporting anyway. That is exactly equivalent to the bojo cake position. it's just an opening bargaining position isn't it? I know the UK isn't going to get squat but they have to talk our side up. Either that or all the politicians who keep saying this are softening the way for a deal which accepts free movement of people. E: lol if they think they're keeping passporting, it'll be the first thing to go and if they drag this out long enough the banks will decamp to the continent anyway, making the issue pretty moot
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Jul 4, 2016 09:58
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It's not true that the UK isn't going to get squat IMO.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:01
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qhat posted:It's not true that the UK isn't going to get squat IMO. Yeah, even when property prices crash, there are still going to be people who need to squat. 
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Jul 4, 2016 10:04
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The financial services sector moving en masse to Paris might be the best thing to come from all this.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:04
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Carborundum posted:The financial services sector moving en masse to Paris might be the best thing to come from all this. Pretty much, as long as the government wakes up from its 6 year fart-huffing coma in time to realise we need to urgently diversify our economy. That said, when it's the two of us having a tug of war over a burned tyre we both want for dinner, perhaps we'll think back to this conversation and laugh bitterly.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:05
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That, too, I think is unlikely. Some banks might go, but in general I think the city is staying put.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:06
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qhat posted:I think he was making a joke So is Pissflaps.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:06
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They should be opposing brexit! That doesn't mean ignoring the result of referendum.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:07
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jiggerypokery posted:This is going to be an extremely unpopular concept in this thread, but it is entirely possible to not want free movement of labour without being racist. I'd argue that the assumption that a leave vote implies xenophobic views is a losing argument and a key reason the result came out the way it did. It would be nice if remain could let that bullshit die now. It's an unpopular concept because it never happens to be followed with an explanation that voids "the jobs are for the people here, you other people don't get jobs, and that's because you don't come from here". It's pretty hard to paint as anything else. The leave campaign relied on racism and xenophobia. It doesn't imply that anyone voting that way was a conscious racist or a xenophobe, but if they weren't and voted leave they either knowingly supported fash anyway, or were thick enough to fall for the "£350 million a week! all for us!" poo poo coming from notable bigoted cockwombles. That, and the large contingent of those who will without hint of irony say "I'm not racist... but.."- of course they don't like being called a racist, they realise racism has a stigma attached but somehow not the reasoning for it being a bad thing. Unfortunately a reduction in that stigma has seen a massive increase in laminated hate mail through peoples doors, halal butchers torched and mums told to "gently caress off home, we voted you out" on the buses. Ignoring that the leave campaign was racist and xenophobic in an attempt to save peoples feelings won't work. They won't stop falling for the same bullshit because people stopped calling them out on it, if the stigma behind racist viewpoints is diminished, racism is empowered.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:08
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pointsofdata posted:They should be opposing brexit! That doesn't mean ignoring the result of referendum. So did you hit your head and forget what the referendum was on, or something?
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Jul 4, 2016 10:09
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LemonDrizzle posted:https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/749852756630908928 This is funny, but also alarming. Educating Vince that actually British people are doing jobs, it's just the government has taken all their money and given it to their mates, is something that needs doing. We can't just laugh and say "haha, another dumb racist member of the working class" - when he's exactly the sort of person who should be on the side of Labour/the left, but in reality is probably voting UKIP.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:10
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qhat posted:It's not true that the UK isn't going to get squat IMO. [pissflaps]the double negative means that you think the UK is going to get squat which still isn't much[/pissflaps] I'll be glad if the UK does ok out of negotiations but between the need for the EU to slam England pretty hard over this and the complete incompetence and even absence of our political class I can't see it happening.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:10
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Farage just said he's stepping down as UKIP leader. Well, for at least three days again?
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Jul 4, 2016 10:10
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Someone explain to me why he is resigning? Didn't his party score a major political victory with Brexit?
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Jul 4, 2016 10:11
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Junior G-man posted:Farage just said he's stepping down as UKIP leader. Yeah, Im taking my pinch of salt here.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:11
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Junior G-man posted:Farage just said he's stepping down as UKIP leader. Is Carswell expelled or what?
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Jul 4, 2016 10:12
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Junior G-man posted:Farage just said he's stepping down as UKIP leader. Or he's going to try and join the Conservatives.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:12
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kustomkarkommando posted:Is Carswell expelled or what? Not so far as I know.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:12
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What's there really to do anymore as Farage. You won't ever be in cabinet, heaven forbid, your political movement will run out of steam and will lose ground to open racists instead of your slightly-less-open brand of racism, now is the moment to cash out.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:14
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If Farage has thrown the toys out of the pram because the NEC wouldn't expel Carswell like he's been talking about for the last week or so just lol
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Jul 4, 2016 10:15
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Kurtofan posted:So is Pissflaps. Stop responding to Pissflaps.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:16
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LMAO Farage now opening the door wide open for 'collaboration' with the Conservatives in the next government.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:17
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Zsa Zsa Gabor posted:Someone explain to me why he is resigning? Didn't his party score a major political victory with Brexit? To paraphrase, he said that having successfully voted to take his country back, he now wants to take his life back. Presumably to spend more time with his German wife and German-speaking kids.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:17
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jiggerypokery posted:This is going to be an extremely unpopular concept in this thread, but it is entirely possible to not want free movement of labour without being racist. I'd argue that the assumption that a leave vote implies xenophobic views is a losing argument and a key reason the result came out the way it did. It would be nice if remain could let that bullshit die now.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:17
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Huh, I'd've figured Farage would ride his 'win' further, pressuring the government on why Art 50 isn't invoked and promising more bullshit (then blaming the EU when they don't acquiesce).
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Jul 4, 2016 10:18
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Lunar Suite posted:Huh, I'd've figured Farage would ride his 'win' further, pressuring the government on why Art 50 isn't invoked and promising more bullshit (then blaming the EU when they don't acquiesce). He said that if the government doesn't invoke Article 50 then UKIP's 'best days' are ahead. He also said UKIP should not stand against pro-Brexit MPs in a general election.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:19
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Junior G-man posted:LMAO Farage now opening the door wide open for 'collaboration' with the Conservatives in the next government. i don't think this is what a lot of UKIP voters would like
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Jul 4, 2016 10:19
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https://twitter.com/DouglasCarswell/status/749892870606381056
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Jul 4, 2016 10:21
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The oval office of Personality with UKIP is gone then. Good.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:22
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Zsa Zsa Gabor posted:Someone explain to me why he is resigning? Didn't his party score a major political victory with Brexit? He's won his battle hasn't he? That's all he ever gave a poo poo about. Now he can sit back and watch the sweet, sweet media appearance moolah start to roll in as "The Man Who Faced Down Europe". I'm going to puke my pelvis out having to see his smug face on a regular basis. God exists, and he wants us to suffer.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:24
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No more hope of seeing him die in another plane-related publicity stunt 
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Jul 4, 2016 10:26
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Angela Eagle says she'll stand "soon" if Corbyn doesn't resign so I'm guessing not today either lmao.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:26
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