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I think a good arc for Flash/hook for a new Venom solo would be him being Symbi-Dad to Andi/Mania. At the very least, the alcoholism/Flash ruining his loving life/abuse struggles/symbiote as another aspect of his alcoholism stuff has been done (and done very well, but there's not much blood left in that particular stone). Would like to see a series where he tries to do better than his dad did raising him by being a foster father to Andi. Sorta the whole Logan/X-23 thing all over again. I think it'd be neat, anyways.
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Jul 3, 2016 21:19
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Flash has had some great moments so they could give him the lower half of an Iron Man suit and let him run off and have more adventures.
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Jul 3, 2016 21:25
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WickedHate posted:A Marvel movie like The Social Network would be cool. Simon and Ditko should get proper respects for Cap and Spider-Man, too. (Was Doctor Strange Kirby or Ditko? I don't remember) I think Strange was all Ditko (though Stan scripted his first few appearances until Ditko took over at every level).
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Jul 3, 2016 21:57
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Rhyno posted:Double posting because someone just linked this on Facebook and it's excellent Friends of mine are going to SDCC because their Short Film, Arty, is in its film festival. The titular character is based on a combo of Kirby and Eisner, and features a Stan Lee like character that is discribed by my friend who plays him "a Schister that takes all the credit".
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Jul 3, 2016 22:06
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twistedmentat posted:Friends of mine are going to SDCC because their Short Film, Arty, is in its film festival. The titular character is based on a combo of Kirby and Eisner, and features a Stan Lee like character that is discribed by my friend who plays him "a Schister that takes all the credit". I must see this.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:08
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Rhyno posted:I must see this. Yea, I want to see it as well, but its not up anywhere online currently. Hopefully it will at some point.
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Jul 3, 2016 22:25
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Toxxupation posted:So I just finished the solo Flash Venom run (good series, I really hope someone does a Mania solo someday because I really liked Andi's relationship with Flash). Good news/bad news for you then. Mania is showing back up in the next issue of Venom Space Knight.... but the current plot means Flash is coming to take that part of the symbiote back and then probably leave Andi in the "forgotten forever" character bin.
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Jul 3, 2016 23:01
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twistedmentat posted:Friends of mine are going to SDCC because their Short Film, Arty, is in its film festival. The titular character is based on a combo of Kirby and Eisner, and features a Stan Lee like character that is discribed by my friend who plays him "a Schister that takes all the credit". Wow how edgy and original.
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Jul 3, 2016 23:02
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Whatever happened to the Jack Kirby documentary?
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Jul 3, 2016 23:03
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Dunno if anyone cares about stuff like this but I find it interesting. Hoping it's reliable, I've never been to this site before. Top 10 Best-Selling Comics from last week quote:1. Captain America: Steve Rogers #2 I guess the X-Books are still going pretty strong.
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Jul 3, 2016 23:19
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Mmm, that Cap boycott sure worked out.
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Jul 3, 2016 23:21
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Wasn't Stan the story idea guy and helped keep marvel together for the most part?
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Jul 4, 2016 00:30
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Mr Hootington posted:Wasn't Stan the story idea guy and helped keep marvel together for the most part? Only if you believe the white man's lies.
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Jul 4, 2016 00:31
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It's not literally true that Lee just signed his name on stuff, but his real contributions were in selling Marvel. He was a charismatic talker and became the face of Marvel semi-accidentally, then just rolled with it. Stan Lee isn't a Bob Kane, at least. He just sorta soaks in the attention that's always naturally gravitated to him. He's like a black hole of spotlight.
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Jul 4, 2016 00:39
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WickedHate posted:It's not literally true that Lee just signed his name on stuff, but his real contributions were in selling Marvel. He was a charismatic talker and became the face of Marvel semi-accidentally, then just rolled with it. Stan Lee isn't a Bob Kane, at least. He just sorta soaks in the attention that's always naturally gravitated to him. He's like a black hole of spotlight. Stan Lee once claimed to have created the Punisher on a panel sitting three seats away from Gerry Conway.
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Jul 4, 2016 00:41
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Rhyno posted:Only if you believe the white man's lies. Ok then straighten me out on it or give me a good source. I know Kirby, Ditko , and Simon were huge part and it can't be downplayed. WickedHate posted:It's not literally true that Lee just signed his name on stuff, but his real contributions were in selling Marvel. He was a charismatic talker and became the face of Marvel semi-accidentally, then just rolled with it. Stan Lee isn't a Bob Kane, at least. He just sorta soaks in the attention that's always naturally gravitated to him. He's like a black hole of spotlight. He really is kind of a fun dude in his appearances and his persona in the comics was so amazingly bombastic. It is hard to hate the guy.
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Jul 4, 2016 00:44
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Rhyno posted:Stan Lee once claimed to have created the Punisher on a panel sitting three seats away from Gerry Conway. M...memory issues? If I was a bazillion years old and spent the last few decades having every single decision made at Marvel for the entirety of it's existence credited to me by an ignorant public, I'd probably get confused too. Other than that, I got nothing. Maybe he really is Funky Flashman.
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Jul 4, 2016 00:45
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Stan was hugely important for the promotion and growth of Marvel. It's annoying people pretend Kirby/Ditko were absolute geniuses and Lee did absolutely nothing when nothing could be further from the truth. It's not a Kane/Finger situation, dude had a major hand in the story for all of those early-days Marvel comics (especially the FF stuff, but he was very important to the early scripting of Spider-Man as well). But beyond that he made Marvel into a brand and gave it its countercultural edge. He was the guy who came up with the idea of promoting the creators behind the comics and not just the comics themselves (and we have him to thank for the fact that there's a credits page at the front of comics nowadays, especially colorist/lettering credits. Those were his ideas, in a time when nobody at DC was even thinking about credits for writer/artist). He basically invented the DC/Marvel war (which, you know, has its ups and downs but considering how dominant a monopoly DC had on the industry by the time FF 1 and Amazing Fantasy 15 came out, was kind of necessary just to keep Marvel alive in those early years). He printed letters pages and responded to them in the back of comics and constantly denigrated "Brand Ecch", he came up with the idea of the No-Prize, he basically made not just being a comics fan but being, specifically, a Marvel fan cool. He promoted and promoted and promoted the brand constantly and basically came up with the ways to promote comics that are still in use to this day. Was he selfish and did he hog the spotlight? Yeah, sure, but in the over half-century he's been involved with Marvel comics the dude helped build it up from some dime store romance novel knockoff to one of the strongest global brands ever, and he did it essentially alone - neither Kirby nor Ditko gave a gently caress about the business side of Marvel at all. Like, Kirby famously and very acrimoniously jumped ship from Marvel to DC and created probably his most significant and longest-lasting legacy with the New Gods/Fourth World stuff, and his bile against Lee was probably deserved, but the fact that his leaving to DC was such a big deal - that people even knew what his name was - was largely due to Lee's relentless promotion of the creative staff behind the titles just as much if not more so than the titles themselves. Plus, and most importantly, he prevented Ditko from turning Peter Parker to an Objectivist. So for that alone, and I'm being one hundred percent sincere when I say this, Stan Lee deserves every ounce of praise he gets.
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Jul 4, 2016 00:49
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Mr Hootington posted:Ok then straighten me out on it or give me a good source. I know Kirby, Ditko , and Simon were huge part and it can't be downplayed. This is a pretty fair examination of Ditko, Kirby, and Lee and how important they all were to the foundation of Marvel.
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Jul 4, 2016 00:53
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NikkolasKing posted:Dunno if anyone cares about stuff like this but I find it interesting. Hoping it's reliable, I've never been to this site before. This is a big drop from like 1996 when seven of the top 10 comics were X-titles.
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Jul 4, 2016 01:36
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Toxxupation posted:This is a pretty fair examination of Ditko, Kirby, and Lee and how important they all were to the foundation of Marvel. Abraham Riesman wrote a fantastic profile of Stan Lee for Vulture earlier this year. quote:And yet, Lee has no superhuman resistance to the aging process. “My eyesight has gotten terrible and I can’t read comic books anymore,” he recently told Britain’s Radio Times in a rare moment of departure from his usual cheerful, product-promoting talking points. "Not only a comic book, but I can’t read the newspaper or a novel or anything,” he said. “I miss reading 100 percent. It’s my biggest miss in the world. … It's awful to feel a thousand years old." 
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Jul 4, 2016 04:09
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 Hmmm, I wonder!
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Jul 4, 2016 06:06
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Trying to act like Stan Lee didn't do anything but take credit and screw people over in early Marvel is some high school bullshit that does justice to no one. One guy was super talented and the other was just a complete evil hack! Real life isn't so black and white.
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Jul 4, 2016 06:13
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Lurdiak posted:Trying to act like Stan Lee didn't do anything but take credit and screw people over in early Marvel is some high school bullshit that does justice to no one. One guy was super talented and the other was just a complete evil hack! Real life isn't so black and white. Jack Kirby was Jewish, not black. 😁
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Jul 4, 2016 06:22
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Stan Lee was not an evil do-nothing who just leeched off other people but it's genuinely pretty lovely that he takes credit for other people's work and parlayed doing so into being a minor celebrity and the fact that he continues to do so makes it understandable why people get hyperbolic in the opposite direction. No amount of "but he made the BRAND strong" should matter to anyone who isn't a Marvel shareholder. I still like Stan Lee but it's because he is charismatic as hell but if you actually examine the stuff he did at very least he's kind of a poo poo.
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Jul 4, 2016 06:44
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I don't mind people pointing out the lovely things he's done, but it's really dumb to act like that's all he did, or overstate them.
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Jul 4, 2016 06:46
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ImpAtom posted:No amount of "but he made the BRAND strong" should matter to anyone who isn't a Marvel shareholder. Unless you, you know, like Marvel movies, any non-comics Marvel media in general, or the greater Marvel Universe being as popular or as influential as it is over three dudes who made that Fantastic Four and Spider-Man comic that got quietly bought out by DC just like those Shazam guys. And, again, considering what the Distinguished Competition's Best Practices were in that same time period it's doubtful we would have any recognition for writers or artists and certainly none for inkers, colorists, letterers, or editors like we now do off of Lee's pushing of the creative minds behind a comic as a selling point to a comic. Like, the irony is people pretend he's a glory-stealing hack (which is a complicated at best answer that defies easy "he's good/he's bad") but HE was, by far, in his heyday the dude pushing forward for creative recognition for the people that made comics. Like it's real dumb to pretend that branding should only matter to business robots as opposed to an unpleasant reality of any commercially viable creative medium. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 06:58
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Toxxupation posted:Unless you, you know, like Marvel movies, any non-comics Marvel media in general, or the greater Marvel Universe being as popular or as influential as it is over three dudes who made that Fantastic Four and Spider-Man comic that got quietly bought out by DC just like those Shazam guys. I don't particularly care, no. I follow creators. I like characters and certainly enjoy certain characters but I'm not as terrified at the idea of Spider-Man not being written by Marvel as you are. Part of that is that I'm a Captain Marvel fan and while what happened sucks there were plenty of good Captain Marvel comics after the fact as well. Not to mention that half these guys should be public domain already. Toxxupation posted:And, again, considering what the Distinguished Competition's Best Practices were in that same time period it's doubtful we would have any recognition for writers or artists and certainly none for inkers, colorists, letterers, or editors like we now do I don't particularly believe that the idea of crediting writers for comics would never have existed without Stan Lee, sorry. He certainly deserves credit for what he did but "In the year 2016 all comics would be anonymously written, drawn and inked if not for Stan Lee" is laughable. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 07:09
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ImpAtom posted:I don't particularly believe that the idea of crediting writers for comics would never have existed without Stan Lee, sorry. He certainly deserves credit for what he did but "In the year 2016 all comics would be anonymously written, drawn and inked if not for Stan Lee" is laughable. If it wasn't for Stan Lee, comic books likely don't even exist in 2016.
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Jul 4, 2016 07:28
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Codependent Poster posted:If it wasn't for Stan Lee, comic books likely don't even exist in 2016. I don't believe that one either, no. The landscape would certainly be different but I somehow doubt that every comic publisher worldwide and also webcomics would suddenly cease to exist if not for Marvel alone. Like yes, Stan Lee deserves a lot of credit, but "if not for Stan Lee comics would cease to exist" as if the idea of published drawn fictional stories suddenly wouldn't exist is goddamn silly. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 07:31
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Nah, I think there's something to the idea that a lot of modern comics salesmanship and attribution can be traced back to Lee. Whatever else you can say about him, he really did revolutionize how a creator is recognized. If you read contemporaneous comics to Silver Age Marvel, it wasn't unusual for them to not credit anyone at all, or to not credit anyone besides the writer and artist. Then you pick up one of Lee's books and everyone who worked on it is identified up front with a weird, laudatory nickname. He really wanted you to know who was responsible for what you were about to read.
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Jul 4, 2016 10:13
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ImpAtom posted:I don't believe that one either, no. The landscape would certainly be different but I somehow doubt that every comic publisher worldwide and also webcomics would suddenly cease to exist if not for Marvel alone. I like that you think webcomics would be strong if comics largely cease to be before the Internet is even a thing. Which is what happens if there's no Stan Lee. Like, don't get me wrong, I think comics would still be in existence if not for Lee, but they'd have nowhere near the cultural cachet they had even back in the 80s (which was, like, not a lot). They'd be a niche hobby among niche hobbies. They'd be the guys at the gaming convention off in a corner playing Avalon Hill wargames while everyone else is watching the trailer for the new Call of Duty. A vast amount of the innovation and growth of comics as a medium in the US stemmed from the interplay between Marvel and DC as each tried to outdo the other, and without that, the medium stagnates and dies.
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Jul 4, 2016 11:41
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In my readthrough of Ultimate Fantastic Four, I got to the issue that takes place after Ultimatum, so I decided to read Ultimatum. I had heard it was awful. It was, without any hyperbole, the worst comic I've ever read. I have no idea how Jeph Loeb is still working at Marvel. Then the end is sealed with a poo poo ribbon dedicating the event to the creators of all the characters he uncerimonioulsy murdered.
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Jul 4, 2016 13:53
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Loeb got a lot of slack by the people at Marvel because Loeb's writing got lovely after the death of his son. It's not [I[wrong[/I] per say and I'm not unsympathetic, but drat, it's some bad product.
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Jul 4, 2016 13:58
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I figured as much, but goddamn, maybe someone at editorial should have stepped in at some point. It's way too edgy. I remember Superman/Batman #26, right after Infinite Crisis was a much better grieving issue and that was at least a couple years before Ultimatum.
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Jul 4, 2016 14:04
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I think that if Stan Lee never existed, we would live in a utopia where every comic is manga, and all comic nerds enjoy anime. Wait, except that basically every nation has had some form of native comics, for a long rear end time, wnd even if he never existed they would probably not only exist in non-US markets, but also in the us from other people.
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Jul 4, 2016 14:42
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We might not give a poo poo about superheroes anymore, without Marvel's rise. Imagine a world without Darkwing Duck.
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Jul 4, 2016 14:53
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Ok, so I've read through Ultimate Fantastic Four, and the Requiem issue. Where do I go from here? I wanna see this Reed Richards heel turn.
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Jul 4, 2016 14:55
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Detective No. 27 posted:Ok, so I've read through Ultimate Fantastic Four, and the Requiem issue. Where do I go from here? I wanna see this Reed Richards heel turn. Ultimate Comics Enemy, then Mystery, and then Doom. Apparently all three got collected into a single trade called Ultimate Comics: Doomsday. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 14:59
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And then after that you can go onto the Hickman/Humphries penned Ultimate Comics Ultimates where Reed is the bad guy
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Jul 4, 2016 16:02
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