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Wanting to say again anytime I hear Delta say "my motives are... Complex." I cringe because it just seems like such an asspull cop-out hand-waving of plot details that weren't tied up very well. I practically expected Delta to literally wave his hands as he said it. Also, are we to believe that Akane is literally the only esper on a planet of billions of people with the resources and simply caring enough to do something about the extinction of the human race? Nobody else had their esper abilities awaken in such a time of immediate life-and-death crisis all around them?
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Jul 5, 2016 01:32
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I mean when he said that he basically seemed to mean that he had multiple motives that were then explained.
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Jul 5, 2016 01:45
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I actually liked the Delta reveal, I thought it was clever and cleaned up a lot of loose ends. I had some problems with Delta as a character, but the actual idea of the blind, deaf old man in the wheelchair being there the whole time actually explained quite a bit. It seems to be unfavorably compared to the "Sigma is old" twist from VLR a lot in this thread, which actually soured me on VLR a lot; it seemed almost unbelievably lazy to me that he would reuse literally the exact same twist from ---Ever17---. Admittedly, I did groan a bit at the twist in ZTD being the same twist as the one in Sharin no Kuni, but that is by a completely different author and can't really be indicted for laziness  e: Moved spoiler tags around for clarity, sorry about that. All spoiler tags are over the names of other games. Panic! at Nabisco fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 01:51
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Wanting to say again anytime I hear Delta say "my motives are... Complex." I cringe because it just seems like such an asspull cop-out hand-waving of plot details that weren't tied up very well. I practically expected Delta to literally wave his hands as he said it. Esper abilities are relatively rare. Few people are able to develop them even if they have them and some who do just end up with Reverie Syndrome instead. Most people who do develop them are either nuts or die (which INCLUDES Akane, she had to manipulate space-time to not die as a child.)
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Jul 5, 2016 01:53
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Why is spoiling a completely different game in your spoiler tags okay. Thanks. 
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Jul 5, 2016 01:57
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Finished the game today, absolutely loved it. The Delta review totally blew my mind. At the earlier stages I thought Eric was going to be revealed as Dio - I guess the voice actors have very similar voices, and their attitude seemed similar - I was proved very wrong later on of course. Now I am really pumped up for the release of the 999 and VLR ports on Steam sometime in the near future, as confirmed today.
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Jul 5, 2016 02:10
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ImpAtom posted:Esper abilities are relatively rare. Few people are able to develop them even if they have them and some who do just end up with Reverie Syndrome instead. Most people who do develop them are either nuts or die (which INCLUDES Akane, she had to manipulate space-time to not die as a child.) The impression I got was that the vast majority of espers in the wild were like Carlos, using it subconsciously and just "going with their gut". It takes an incredibly contrived situation for people to actually develop their powers to the point where they control them, which basically only happens in large scale experiments designed specifically to do that. Of which the games are the only ones we know of. Clarste fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 02:16
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DoctorOfLawls posted:Now I am really pumped up for the release of the 999 and VLR ports on Steam sometime in the near future, as confirmed today. 
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Jul 5, 2016 02:21
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I mean when he said that he basically seemed to mean that he had multiple motives that were then explained. Yeah, it was pretty much his way of saying "Shut up and give me a second to explain".
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Jul 5, 2016 02:35
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Linguica posted:Seems like it would have made a lot more sense to release PC ports of 999 and VLR at the same time, if not before, you released the third game in the series, but The games have SHIFTed.
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Jul 5, 2016 02:40
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Linguica posted:Seems like it would have made a lot more sense to release PC ports of 999 and VLR at the same time, if not before, you released the third game in the series, but probably wanted to simul-launch ZTD on all platforms given that it was probably developed ground-up for PC. Their PC resources are also probably not high tier. I dunno whose bright idea it was to launch in the middle of a Steam sale though. I didn't even see a 'now available' message.
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Jul 5, 2016 03:02
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DoctorOfLawls posted:At the earlier stages I thought Eric was going to be revealed as Dio - I guess the voice actors have very similar voices, and their attitude seemed similar - I was proved very wrong later on of course. I thought they were going to delve a little deeper into Eric's/Mira's traumatic pasts since they were the only two completely new characters in the three teams. (They covered Sean fairly well in my opinion, and Diana was human-Luna, so that doesn't count.) Seeing Eric freeze every time he would flashback to his brother's death/dad's abuse was kind of nutty, but he just did an exposition of it, and that was it. I don't know if I should have expected more, but it just felt a little shallow. He really was the worst character.
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Jul 5, 2016 03:22
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I have a feeling I liked Delta more than I should have just because of D. C. Douglas's insanely charismatic voice.
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Jul 5, 2016 04:18
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cloofish posted:I have a feeling I liked Delta more than I should have just because of D. C. Douglas's insanely charismatic voice. That means the mind hacking is working.
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Jul 5, 2016 04:37
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can someone explain why Delta just randomly shows up in that one timeline, apropos of nothing did i miss a set-up or does he just have really good dramatic timing
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Jul 5, 2016 05:23
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AlternateNu posted:I thought they were going to delve a little deeper into Eric's/Mira's traumatic pasts since they were the only two completely new characters in the three teams. (They covered Sean fairly well in my opinion, and Diana was human-Luna, so that doesn't count.) Seeing Eric freeze every time he would flashback to his brother's death/dad's abuse was kind of nutty, but he just did an exposition of it, and that was it. I don't know if I should have expected more, but it just felt a little shallow. carlos was new too wasn't he?
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Jul 5, 2016 05:25
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mandatory lesbian posted:can someone explain why Delta just randomly shows up in that one timeline, apropos of nothing Delta is always there just no one on Q team looked at the blind, deaf man in the wheelchair at all over the course of their cutscenes, except Eric in one cutscene where he talks to the old man while petting Gab.
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Jul 5, 2016 05:27
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mandatory lesbian posted:can someone explain why Delta just randomly shows up in that one timeline, apropos of nothing What are you talking about, Delta was totally there the whole time. He's just camera shy.
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Jul 5, 2016 05:28
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there's basically a long list of weird poo poo that goes on with Q team cutscenes that basically all makes sense in retrospect if there's a 4th person but you're also conditioned that Q team cutscenes have a lot of weird poo poo given that its Eric and Mira doing most of the talking and they're both not sane its also harder to pick up on since the game forces timeline jumps and breaks up pattern recognition
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Jul 5, 2016 05:34
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Momomo posted:What are you talking about, Delta was totally there the whole time. He's just camera shy. i can't tell whether i like this being the twist i missed or me thinking he was just a showman
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Jul 5, 2016 05:41
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Admittedly I like the showman interpretation more since the whole thing is ridiculous otherwise. Does the name Q have any significance, by the way? edit: I just realized Q = Kyu = 9. They pulled this same drat thing again. Momomo fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 05:50
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A lowercase q looks like a 9
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Jul 5, 2016 06:02
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Alright now that I've had some time to sleep on the ending, I've put some more thought into a few things. First of all addressing the major plot twist of the game, "Q was a different person there the whole time!" I've seen it said a number of times it's a twist more for the twist's sake. There's very little reason the camera angles, memories, or... anything at all would not show him for most of the story. The only way I can view this as being just a cheap story gimmick is by filling in a few details (That I hope I'm right about). First of all addressing who the target of the information tampering would be... It would have to be the Player/BW/?, take your pick on which one you prefer. The people in universe wouldn't be fooled by odd angles from a camera so it's obviously directed at an outside observer. Next we need to frame what the objective is... Delta had two main objectives. Be born and get some initiative on world saving business. This trick would primarily help with the second objective I feel. The following question is "Why?" which is a bit more hypothetical. Ultimately I think it would be to prevent Pl/BW/? from messing up the project... that or becoming more emotionally invested in it. Because Delta wanted people inspired to save the world he could also be working to make sure a omni-prescent entity also is interested in the well being of the world. You could phrase it as, "Make players interested in the story so they'll buy the next game" as easily as saying, "Make BW/? invested in what's going on so it keeps helping". Finally the "How"... If you think about Q team who he is around for most of the game it makes a certain amount of sense. Eric and Mira are not shifters, which at least in the Zero Escape series we have not had a story focus from non-shifters that I remember. As for Q while sort of a shifter he has weird robot stuff going on and he was brought about by Delta. There could be some forced mental block at work there. Not to mention this is the most mentally unstable team with one of the members actively working with Now how would Delta know about this mysterious entity from the future? That's one of the weaker points in my theory. Especially considering that Pl/BW/? wasn't brought up in the game at all. Perhaps older Sigma is aware of it subconsciously and that's how he gets the information? Other shifters know about it somehow? I can only wildly guess on this part. Overall this theory is very... fragile. It relies a lot on, "I think" and "This makes the most sense to me" kind of logic. Feel free to add to it/shoot it down as you see fit. As for other things... I can't really logic my way around how they wrote Sigma. He didn't feel really... useful. I didn't get the vibe he had prepared a large portion of his life and ran a murder game just for this event. Though I did find it pretty funny when Diana just non-nonchalantly said to Sigma, "Oh your talking about how you said you came from the future?" This meant Sigma just introduced himself to people with, "Yo I'm from the future and here to save the world!" and everyone just ignored him. Oh I also loved the part where Eric shoots a grenade launcher at someone less than three feet away from him. I spent the entire time criticizing Eric for bringing a grenade launcher to a Mexican standoff. I really wish he had just killed them all there.
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Jul 5, 2016 06:45
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Voisk posted:Though I did find it pretty funny when Diana just non-nonchalantly said to Sigma, "Oh your talking about how you said you came from the future?" This meant Sigma just introduced himself to people with, "Yo I'm from the future and here to save the world!" and everyone just ignored him. If you haven't seen it already, there's a game prologue in the Premium Artbook. To sum it up, everyone's response to him was "this guy's crazy, he should be locked up", and Carlos (the appointed leader) basically said "I don't want to jeopardize my money, not happening". Meanwhile, Akane and Phi berate Sigma for being an idiot and drawing attention to them.
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Jul 5, 2016 07:00
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So did Junpei infiltrate the Mars mission solely to propose to Akane after not seeing her for a year
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Jul 5, 2016 07:10
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Jintor posted:So did Junpei infiltrate the Mars mission solely to propose to Akane after not seeing her for a year new junpei does what he wants when he wants
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Jul 5, 2016 07:12
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Voisk posted:Alright now that I've had some time to sleep on the ending, I've put some more thought into a few things. The way the reveal is framed implies that the reason you don't see Q is because you're looking through his eyes. Sean turns towards the camera and points directly at you. In other words, the reason he's never on camera is because he's the one holding the camera at all times, and the apparently third person camera angles (unlike 999 or VLR) are just a trick. Now, obviously this doesn't make literal sense because of how quickly the camera moves around in the scenes, not to mention what happens in all the scenes after he's revealed, but that's the basic idea I believe they were going for. Although given that he was in charge of the entire facility, it's possible that he programmed the security cameras to never look at him? Other scenes imply that the player is only seeing events through hidden security cameras, such as when Sean hacks the computer.
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Jul 5, 2016 07:53
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Cyouni posted:If you haven't seen it already, there's a game prologue in the Premium Artbook. To sum it up, everyone's response to him was "this guy's crazy, he should be locked up", and Carlos (the appointed leader) basically said "I don't want to jeopardize my money, not happening". Meanwhile, Akane and Phi berate Sigma for being an idiot and drawing attention to them. Man I forgot that was a thing. I should go read it. Clarste posted:The way the reveal is framed implies that the reason you don't see Q is because you're looking through his eyes. Sean turns towards the camera and points directly at you. In other words, the reason he's never on camera is because he's the one holding the camera at all times, and the apparently third person camera angles (unlike 999 or VLR) are just a trick. Now, obviously this doesn't make literal sense because of how quickly the camera moves around in the scenes, not to mention what happens in all the scenes after he's revealed, but that's the basic idea I believe they were going for. Yeah Sean turning off the cameras to end the scene does support that our view is all via cameras. I guess he could have had some kind of program that simply deletes any footage where he appears on it. Add an ungodly number of cameras and you'll end up with perfect shots that just barely manage to cut him out of the picture.
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Jul 5, 2016 08:08
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Voisk posted:I guess he could have had some kind of program that simply deletes any footage where he appears on it. Add an ungodly number of cameras and you'll end up with perfect shots that just barely manage to cut him out of the picture. That's probable, especially given Junpei's very eloquent description of the security cameras he works with.
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Jul 5, 2016 08:40
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Jintor posted:So did Junpei infiltrate the Mars mission solely to propose to Akane after not seeing her for a year It's slightly more sane than grandpa Junpei taking a rocket to the Moon with Quark in tow just from the mere mention of Akane's name. That's literally all it took.
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Jul 5, 2016 08:43
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Voisk posted:Yeah Sean turning off the cameras to end the scene does support that our view is all via cameras. The man has an alien time travel device. I would believe anything about his facility.
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Jul 5, 2016 08:57
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Is there some kind of running tally for each character's direct kill count by the end of the game? I mean Eric/Mira are probably on top, Phi/Sigma are relatively bloodless, and Team C kill each other every other jump. I think in my mind the rough leaderboard is: 1. Mira 2. Eric 3. Carlos 4. Akane 5. Diana 6. Sean 7. Junpei 8. Sigma 9. Phi 10. Delta ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 09:01
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Clarste posted:The way the reveal is framed implies that the reason you don't see Q is because you're looking through his eyes. Sean turns towards the camera and points directly at you. In other words, the reason he's never on camera is because he's the one holding the camera at all times, and the apparently third person camera angles (unlike 999 or VLR) are just a trick. Now, obviously this doesn't make literal sense because of how quickly the camera moves around in the scenes, not to mention what happens in all the scenes after he's revealed, but that's the basic idea I believe they were going for. That would mean Delta is moving around on his wheelchair an awful lot just so he wouldn't be caught on camera. Just imagine dramatic scenes where Eric is threatening everyone with a shotgun again and there's an old man in a wheelchair constantly spinning in circles and moving back and forth, just so the camera doesn't show him.
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Jul 5, 2016 09:03
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Sigma was kind of disappointing. Playing VLR made me expect him to do some of the shifting, but when the teams start learning how to fully control it results in team Carlos learning how to shift freely while team Diana gets left behind and blown up by the reactor offscreen. The guy from "The man on the moon rules the infinite time." is completely reliant on alien fax machines. Fun bit: Sigma, Diana and twins starved to death next to a fully stocked pantry room (the dismembered Junpei one), but it wasn't part of their ward. Diana never made the discovery that all three wards are the same in that timeline. Orabilis fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 09:59
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Voisk posted:Man I forgot that was a thing. I should go read it. Also keep in mind how the view goes static at the beginning and end of every scene as well as the blue screens with monitor scan lines at the game over screen.
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Jul 5, 2016 11:01
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astr0man posted:A lowercase q looks like a 9 The Q door was also the hidden 10th door in 999.
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Jul 5, 2016 12:46
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I only just realized that Delta's motives for starting the Nonary Games, unleashing Radical-6, and everything else he's done, are literally the same as M's from that one sci-fi movieOrabilis posted:Fun bit: Sigma, Diana and twins starved to death next to a fully stocked pantry room (the dismembered Junpei one), but it wasn't part of their ward. Diana never made the discovery that all three wards are the same in that timeline. They survived for ten months so I would assume they stumbled on it at some point.
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Jul 5, 2016 13:06
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mandatory lesbian posted:i can't tell whether i like this being the twist i missed or me thinking he was just a showman considering the # of times they framed the camera shots so he wasn't there, it was definitely a twist though as I said, there's a lot of weird poo poo that goes on, but they also build it up as the game goes on, and it does actually tell you Q is Delta before you have to give an answer during a cutscene. just in an obfuscated manner
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Jul 5, 2016 13:11
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Really Pants posted:I only just realized that Delta's motives for starting the Nonary Games, unleashing Radical-6, and everything else he's done, are literally the same as M's from that one sci-fi movie It also makes me wonder - how hard would it be to find some way out of the shelter if you got several months, a robotics workshop and various labs?
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Jul 5, 2016 13:36
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Voisk posted:Man I forgot that was a thing. I should go read it. I would be cool with this twist if it made sense by q's shadows appearing in C team and D team stuff, if he needed to be there with Q team to do ~MIND HACKING~ then why didn't he need to be there for those two in the acid bath rooms to make diana and carlos push the button? if he did his fancy mind hacking stuff through cameras then why did he need to be there with Q team at all? If it's the player who's actually delta and you're the person mindhacking them from your decision game magic then why can you do it in a number of situations where delta ain't there or is just dead. (Force quit decision game as a good example) Like poo poo, it makes as much sense to say "THE PLAYER IS GAB!"
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Jul 5, 2016 13:51
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