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Coaaab posted:Wow, that might have been a worse judges' decision than Chomp/Disko, but SawBlaze's primary weapon looked like poo poo, and the wedge driving didn't exploit the hazards enough, I guess. Aggression points require that the participant use their primary weapon. Attacking with a wedge is considered defensive.
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Jul 4, 2016 18:51
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Yeah, that result does not pass the eye test when it looks like Razorback was on the back foot for the bulk of the match. But based on this new scoring, if SawBlaze had used the wedge to pin Razorback by the pulverizers and get a few good hits in, it could've won the split decision?
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Jul 4, 2016 19:06
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As somebody who watches a lot of boxing that scoring criteria makes alright sense, still think they could stand to fine tune it.
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Jul 4, 2016 19:11
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Hmmm, Bite Force won last year by just shoving Tombstone around with his wedge the whole match. The field's gonna be all spinners by the end with those rules. Not that that's a bad thing.
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Jul 4, 2016 19:45
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Pushbots are pretty boring so it makes sense. Requiring a decent primary weapon that can do damage at least stops designs that are basically a wedgebot with some lovely attempt at a weapon that never does any damage.
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Jul 4, 2016 20:01
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PostNouveau posted:Hmmm, Bite Force won last year by just shoving Tombstone around with his wedge the whole match. The field's gonna be all spinners by the end with those rules. This rule change was almost assuredly because of robots like Bite Force and Razorback that took off their primary weapon to bring a wedge against spinners.
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Jul 4, 2016 20:27
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Coaaab posted:Yeah, that result does not pass the eye test when it looks like Razorback was on the back foot for the bulk of the match. But based on this new scoring, if SawBlaze had used the wedge to pin Razorback by the pulverizers and get a few good hits in, it could've won the split decision? If SawBlaze had pinned Razorback and then used its saw it would have likely won. The lack of actual primary weapon attacks was the issue.
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Jul 4, 2016 21:27
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The rules are set-up to be a soft ban on wedgebots, which I support Wedgebots suck
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Jul 4, 2016 21:38
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:If SawBlaze had pinned Razorback and then used its saw it would have likely won. The lack of actual primary weapon attacks was the issue.
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Jul 4, 2016 21:54
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Great Beer posted:This rule change was almost assuredly because of robots like Bite Force and Razorback that took off their primary weapon to bring a wedge against spinners. As evident by Bite Force actually switching to a real weapon this season in lieu of just blatantly trying to hide the fact that it was a glorified wedgebot.
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Jul 4, 2016 21:54
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DOOP posted:The rules are set-up to be a soft ban on wedgebots, which I support Wedgebots that don't do anything else suck. I would be interested in a wedgebot that actively damaged an opponent from underneath.
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Jul 4, 2016 21:57
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A lot of vertical or drum spinners are pretty much wedgebots. They just happen to have a weapon that can actually do something.
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Jul 4, 2016 21:59
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mashed_penguin posted:A lot of vertical or drum spinners are pretty much wedgebots. They just happen to have a weapon that can actually do something. I think for me the biggest problem with Battlebots is that there isn't much innovation at this point.
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Jul 4, 2016 22:34
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I think for me the biggest problem with Battlebots is that there isn't much innovation at this point. People are still coming up with new things, and technology is making things better all the time. I wish Road Rash got a chance to compete, their method of movement looked really interesting.
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Jul 4, 2016 22:37
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:People are still coming up with new things, and technology is making things better all the time. I wish Road Rash got a chance to compete, their method of movement looked really interesting. The arena floor had some thick coating applied over the steel that messed up everyone's magnets. Chomp was supposed to use magnets to reduce energy loss during the hammer swing and compensate for its top-heavy design but obviously that didn't pan out. It's a shame seeing people poo poo on Chomp really, seems to be the same ones who whine about the new rules.
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Jul 4, 2016 23:13
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I mean, Chomp is pretty lovely if you are going off what we saw in the match, but once you know all the stuff behind the scenes its like "oh yeah that is actually a pretty cool bot" It would be nice if the show could go even a bit more into how the bots are built, its kinda surprising the amount they already do but it would be nice to see more.
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Jul 4, 2016 23:17
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I think for me the biggest problem with Battlebots is that there isn't much innovation at this point. It's less that there's no innovation and more that the risky innovative bots get taken apart by an established "tried and true" weapon design. Look at the one from the preliminaries that had the motion controlled sword arm! That's innovative and cool as hell...but it's not gonna stand up to a lot of the established weapon types.
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Jul 4, 2016 23:33
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Drowning In Terror posted:The arena floor had some thick coating applied over the steel that messed up everyone's magnets. Chomp was supposed to use magnets to reduce energy loss during the hammer swing and compensate for its top-heavy design but obviously that didn't pan out. It's a shame seeing people poo poo on Chomp really, seems to be the same ones who whine about the new rules. Yeah I heard, that's why the commentators said Chomp has the most powerful hammer despite it being fairly ineffective. The design probably still needs some fine tuning since the team is pretty new, but it's a shame the testing floor was different than the actual floor. Beta had the same going on, but I think Beta's low profile is more conducive to being run without magnets. jivjov posted:It's less that there's no innovation and more that the risky innovative bots get taken apart by an established "tried and true" weapon design. Look at the one from the preliminaries that had the motion controlled sword arm! That's innovative and cool as hell...but it's not gonna stand up to a lot of the established weapon types. OB Overlord was more gimmicky than innovative imo, it was never a serious robot. The funky things like drones designed to land on other bots and drill into them are innovative, but what you said applies there.
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Jul 4, 2016 23:39
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jivjov posted:It's less that there's no innovation and more that the risky innovative bots get taken apart by an established "tried and true" weapon design. Look at the one from the preliminaries that had the motion controlled sword arm! That's innovative and cool as hell...but it's not gonna stand up to a lot of the established weapon types. I should clarify; innovation in the sense of resolving the problem of destroying another robot on a flat floor. The solutions are largely mature and resolved, with well established designs that now come in textbooks. I agree it's a shame that the floor was not conducive to magnetic solutions; hopefully next year they address that. But as far as combat robots themselves are concerned there isn't much to improve over the existing designs. After all they've been around for decades.
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Jul 5, 2016 00:20
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Wait until the weight limit rises enough to enter a hydraulic press on wheels.
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Jul 5, 2016 00:30
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I should clarify; innovation in the sense of resolving the problem of destroying another robot on a flat floor. The solutions are largely mature and resolved, with well established designs that now come in textbooks. I agree it's a shame that the floor was not conducive to magnetic solutions; hopefully next year they address that. But as far as combat robots themselves are concerned there isn't much to improve over the existing designs. After all they've been around for decades. I guess? I think you're overplaying how long some of these designs have been in place and underplaying how much they get improved and changed over the years.
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Jul 5, 2016 02:45
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jivjov posted:It's less that there's no innovation and more that the risky innovative bots get taken apart by an established "tried and true" weapon design. Look at the one from the preliminaries that had the motion controlled sword arm! That's innovative and cool as hell...but it's not gonna stand up to a lot of the established weapon types. Was that the bot that had the show match versus a janky dinobot? If so, that was actually really lovely and not very innovative. There's a post a few pages back where some show hosted by Chris Jericho years ago had folks fight with huge motion controlled fists on big puppet bots rigged to spill fluids when damaged and even that stupidity genuinely looked better. If I'm wrong about the bot you're talking about then maybe that one worked somewhat better. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 04:10
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:I guess? I think you're overplaying how long some of these designs have been in place and underplaying how much they get improved and changed over the years. I am not saying that nothing improves. There are new components every year. But the solutions are the same. Look at RoboGames last year and the top 3 heavyweights. Last Rites is a design that's a decade old. Original Sin is a wedgebot. Touro has been around for years as well. All three designs have been refined and perfected and represent the pinnacle of what each style can do. That's not to say the designers aren't still working on things, but the methods are tried and tested. I think innovation would be encouraged by changing the arena, and would also mitigate the subjectivity of judging. Have a series of steps added so that the center of the arena is a tiered pyramid, and at the end of the match include being closer to the center as a judging criteria. Now every design that relies on a flat plane has to change.
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Jul 5, 2016 04:42
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PBS Newshour posted:I mean, Chomp is pretty lovely if you are going off what we saw in the match, but once you know all the stuff behind the scenes its like "oh yeah that is actually a pretty cool bot" We were pitted fairly close to chomp and having had the chance to really take a close look it is absolutely one of the best engineered bots at the event. The CG's surprisingly low (all the light stuff is up high) and the whole hammer mechanism is beautiful. The hits it put out in the Disk O Inferno match were only a taste of what it's capable of. The team had a ~3/4" steel plate bolted to a tire to use for target practice. By the time they were done testing the steel plate was visibly bowed and heavily gouged from the hammer impacts.
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Jul 5, 2016 04:49
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MikeNCR posted:We were pitted fairly close to chomp and having had the chance to really take a close look it is absolutely one of the best engineered bots at the event. I've heard this sentiment from a few of the bot engineers, shame it's got such a bad rap from the viewers.
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Jul 5, 2016 04:56
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MikeNCR posted:We were pitted fairly close to chomp and having had the chance to really take a close look it is absolutely one of the best engineered bots at the event. The CG's surprisingly low (all the light stuff is up high) and the whole hammer mechanism is beautiful. The hits it put out in the Disk O Inferno match were only a taste of what it's capable of. The team had a ~3/4" steel plate bolted to a tire to use for target practice. By the time they were done testing the steel plate was visibly bowed and heavily gouged from the hammer impacts. What bot was yours?
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Jul 5, 2016 04:56
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I mean I could easily be wrong about the lack of meaningful change if someone has a good example.
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Jul 5, 2016 04:59
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I mean I could easily be wrong about the lack of meaningful change if someone has a good example. I guess to me, it's just looking at how things have changed since the comedy central years. But I guess more importantly, I don't really care if there are roughly 16 general design types (the number listed in the riobotz manual) because that's a decent equilibrium and still allows for a lot variety and fun stuff. I do think there should be more effective arena hazards for control oriented bots to take advantage of though.
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Jul 5, 2016 05:05
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:
This reminds me, it kinda weirded me out in the match with...Lockjaw, maybe? where the opposing bot was caught and held over an area where it seemed like sawblades should come out and...nothing.
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Jul 5, 2016 05:08
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:What bot was yours? I'm the team captain for the Chaos Corps with Bombshell. We went heavy on the modular weapons: 
MikeNCR fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 05:38
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Nice scale. A wedge with a killsaw built in might be cool; I was thinking a drill but unless it's some kind of thermic lance it would never have enough time to bite in and make a hole. ....thermic lances are prohibited, right?
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Jul 5, 2016 05:45
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Oh Snapple! posted:This reminds me, it kinda weirded me out in the match with...Lockjaw, maybe? where the opposing bot was caught and held over an area where it seemed like sawblades should come out and...nothing. There's a whole bunch of arena hazards but I think most of them are turned off during the qualifying rounds except the screws (which are usually only effective when a robot shoves another robot into them) and the pulverisers (which are controlled by the robot teams) because they can be used tactically and the other hazards are more random.
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Jul 5, 2016 05:50
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:I guess to me, it's just looking at how things have changed since the comedy central years. The original discussion was whether or not the rule change mandating aggression via primary weapon attacks stifled innovation. The rule eliminates a few of the designs listed (wedges, thwackbots, pushers, etc), but eliminating it doesn't open up the avenue for new designs. That said I agree that there are a lot of ways to solve the problem and the variety is great. The sport is pretty awesome after all. MikeNCR posted:I'm the team captain for the Chaos Corps with Bombshell. We went heavy on the modular weapons: That is awesome. I hope to see more of you guys in the event. Where are you based out of, and what events do you attend outside of BB? I do a lot of work with FIRST robots and keep on thinking about the possibility of getting into robot combat. How did you get started? OAquinas posted:Nice scale. Thermic lances run on pure oxygen, which is a prohibited gas.
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Jul 5, 2016 12:24
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:That is awesome. I hope to see more of you guys in the event. Where are you based out of, and what events do you attend outside of BB? I do a lot of work with FIRST robots and keep on thinking about the possibility of getting into robot combat. The team is based mostly out of the Atlanta area and is made up of a bunch of Robot Battles ( http://robotbattles.com/ ) regulars. Beyond Robot Battles events I'll typically run up to Harrisburg, PA for Motorama each year, and just about any event within a 4 hour drive of Atlanta. There's a good bit of crossover between FRC teams and combat builders and the transitions not too bad. It's probably worth taking a look at http://sparc.tools/ and http://www.buildersdb.com/index.asp to see if there are any upcoming events near you.
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Jul 5, 2016 13:31
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:The original discussion was whether or not the rule change mandating aggression via primary weapon attacks stifled innovation. The rule eliminates a few of the designs listed (wedges, thwackbots, pushers, etc), but eliminating it doesn't open up the avenue for new designs. Oh yeah, well, I guess misread that. I agree pretty much. I was reading something by one of the guys who worked on Bronco saying they wish there were less rules in general so that people could sort things pit naturally., like allow nets and everything and people would figure out ways to counter things. IDK if it works out that way but its an idea.
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Jul 5, 2016 13:53
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MikeNCR posted:The team is based mostly out of the Atlanta area and is made up of a bunch of Robot Battles ( http://robotbattles.com/ ) regulars. Beyond Robot Battles events I'll typically run up to Harrisburg, PA for Motorama each year, and just about any event within a 4 hour drive of Atlanta. There's a good bit of crossover between FRC teams and combat builders and the transitions not too bad. It's probably worth taking a look at http://sparc.tools/ and http://www.buildersdb.com/index.asp to see if there are any upcoming events near you. That's really cool. I'll probably try going to the PA events since I live in MD. Looking over the events it seems like most competitions end at the 30 pound level. Are there any heavyweight events beyond Battlebots and Robogames? MMM Whatchya Say posted:Oh yeah, well, I guess misread that. I agree pretty much. I was reading something by one of the guys who worked on Bronco saying they wish there were less rules in general so that people could sort things pit naturally., like allow nets and everything and people would figure out ways to counter things. IDK if it works out that way but its an idea. You run into a lot of low-effort hard counters that way. A net in a box, for example, is trivial to engineer but dramatically affects the ability of spinners to function. It also significantly impairs most wheel-based systems since they could easily end up with their drive trains entangled just by running over the thing. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but it does significantly alter the landscape and it may not necessarily provide the ideal result. In the end it boils down to what people really want to see from this game. Who is the target audience? If you're talking about a bunch of hobbyists playing in their own event then the rules are going to be different from a show marketed to millions. How do you encourage designs to change and improve from year to year? What does that mean?
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Jul 5, 2016 17:02
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MikeNCR posted:We were pitted fairly close to chomp and having had the chance to really take a close look it is absolutely one of the best engineered bots at the event. The CG's surprisingly low (all the light stuff is up high) and the whole hammer mechanism is beautiful. The hits it put out in the Disk O Inferno match were only a taste of what it's capable of. The team had a ~3/4" steel plate bolted to a tire to use for target practice. By the time they were done testing the steel plate was visibly bowed and heavily gouged from the hammer impacts. I hope we get to see some of that in their next match. I'm all for cool engineering. I just hope they don't get turned into confetti by shrederator before they get a chance to show it off. Looks like their match doesn't air until the 21st.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:13
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Yeah, Chomp's electronics and gear look great, but just from DI's hits (and it's not exactly the toughest hitter out there) had it rolling around like a damned weeble, and until it could right itself it was basically helpless. Hope they're able to stabilize it better; hammerbots are cool.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:00
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Cobalt vs Overhaul is up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-4Rfds49Co
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Jul 5, 2016 18:09
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Fantasy Battlebots Tonight at 9 EST still. Going to be making GBS threads up the thread a bit so if you're not part of this just ignore it, this is only going to happen once, so I feel like there's no reason to make a separate thread like I normally would for these kinds of things. Draft Order
Scoring system: JT Jag posted:3 points for a knockout, 2 points for a win by decision and 1 point for a loss by decision, imo Format This should move along very quickly. I'll repost the list of robots when we're about to start the draft. The first player will say which bot they're taking at the top of their post in bold, then post copy and paste the list with their robot removed. The next player will do the same thing An example, say this is the list: quote:Tombstone The first player might post quote:Bronco The next might post quote:Stinger etc, we continue that way down the player list going from 1-8 When we get to the last player (SLICK GOKU BABY) they pick twice and then we go in the other direction from 8 to 1. We continue this way until all players have picked 4 robots. If you're not going to be around you can send me an ordered list of your preferred picks. If somebody is not absent, like they don't check in and never sent me an ordered list, I'll be randomizing their picks Anyway, if there's any confusion or questions I'll be around until about 7PM (EST) but then I'm busy until we start.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:40
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