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It beats Tarmogoyf with RIP in play though??
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Jul 5, 2016 17:53
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Isn't Advocate a legit concern, though?
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Jul 5, 2016 17:54
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Sylvan Advocate is a dumb card.
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Jul 5, 2016 17:56
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Angry Grimace posted:MTGS says that Grim Flayer sucks because it can't ever beat Tarmogoyf in combat. Pack it up boys. excuse me but it does with rest in peace on the field
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Jul 5, 2016 17:57
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Irony Be My Shield posted:It beats Tarmogoyf with RIP in play though?? drat i was beaten...
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Jul 5, 2016 17:57
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Rinkles posted:Isn't Advocate a legit concern, though? Sylvan Advocate is just better most of the time, yes. Which is why this card is probably going to crash after people freak out about it. But in fairness, basically-Scry 3 is a really strong combat damage trigger. You probably only need to connect once with it to be worth it over Advocate, but 50+% of the field plays a playset of Sylvan Advocates and this guy can't really get through them without turning on Delirium. For Delirium to be good its something you probably need to be doing incidentally (e.g. Mindwrack Demon) as opposed to playing bad cards to enable. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 18:08
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whydirt posted:Sylvan Advocate is a dumb card. In this standard, yeah, it's not a ridiculous card in a vacuum or anything though.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:10
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pointsofdata posted:She can if you use an instant speed fight in combat, but perhaps that's the case you were trying to exclude. You can do this, but if you are having Gisela do the fighting, she will still die. Fight ignores First strike and Double strike. (and trample, flying and reach... basically anything that does not modify qualities of the damage dealt...) If you have her attack, get blocked by the dragon, get a counter from the command, then have her fight SOMETHING ELSE, then she can beat the dragon that way.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:21
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dragon enthusiast posted:Ignoring the clusterfuck that was Onslaught block, it was the first set I drafted and was when I started getting into magic so it holds a soft spot in my heart Ah, that's fair
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Jul 5, 2016 18:27
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Angry Grimace posted:Sylvan Advocate is just better most of the time, yes. Which is why this card is probably going to crash after people freak out about it. But in fairness, basically-Scry 3 is a really strong combat damage trigger. You probably only need to connect once with it to be worth it over Advocate, but 50+% of the field plays a playset of Sylvan Advocates and this guy can't really get through them without turning on Delirium. For Delirium to be good its something you probably need to be doing incidentally (e.g. Mindwrack Demon) as opposed to playing bad cards to enable. Yeah this is all true, I'd add though that as another point in Flayer's favor his ability is likely to actually be better than scry 3 in the type of decks he'll show up in, and also that there are a lot of cards in those colors that help him be good in the face of Advocate like, say..... new Lilliana.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:31
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Angry Grimace posted:MTGS says that Grim Flayer sucks because it can't ever beat Tarmogoyf in combat. Pack it up boys. It beats nothing relevant in combat.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:31
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mcmagic posted:It beats nothing relevant in combat. Give it time, Kaladesh will probably have some stuff for it (Artifact Creatures) and the fat butt gang will eventually rotate out, so maybe it's a sign of what their plans for upcoming standards will be (reduced butts for everyone)
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Jul 5, 2016 18:39
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TheKingofSprings posted:Give it time, Kaladesh will probably have some stuff for it (Artifact Creatures) and the fat butt gang will eventually rotate out, so maybe it's a sign of what their plans for upcoming standards will be (reduced butts for everyone) That might happen but Reflector/Advocate and even Catacomb Sifter are going to be around for another year after that.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:45
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He seems very good in a G/B deck that packs removal to clear the way for him. Deadweight and Sinister concoction may play besides him for the Delirium trigger.
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Jul 5, 2016 18:55
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Sickening posted:Delirium is basically "Play with these bad cards until you hit delirium". ^^^
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Jul 5, 2016 18:57
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That new green Corpse Churn that hits lands seems like it may help. I want the Rock to be good again.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:02
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DangerDongs posted:That new green Corpse Churn that hits lands seems like it may help. I have some good news it's probably at least t1.5 atm
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Jul 5, 2016 19:07
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stinkles1112 posted:Yeah this is all true, I'd add though that as another point in Flayer's favor his ability is likely to actually be better than scry 3 in the type of decks he'll show up in, and also that there are a lot of cards in those colors that help him be good in the face of Advocate like, say..... new Lilliana. Scry 3 is just a way to describe it, its almost strictly better than Scry in practice because decks that care about it will like it and decks that didn't it wouldn't really matter.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:10
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The most interesting common in the set
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Jul 5, 2016 19:12
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Red gets a vanilla bear as a vampire per the new Developer Tumblr.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:12
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Nibble posted:The most interesting common in the set With no downside! Wow! I wonder if Anje Falkenrath will be a new legendary creature.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:14
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GBx is usually as good or better than GWx. e: will the powercreep on creatures never end??
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Jul 5, 2016 19:15
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mcmagic posted:^^^ I'm tellin you guys, Dead Weight, new Lilly and this guy, curving into Mindwrack Demon, have your own Sylvan Advocates and maybe Transgress the Mind with some instant speed removal... seems pretty spicy
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Jul 5, 2016 19:19
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Maybe Wizards should stop making good creatures X/X+1 so we don't have efficient creatures bouncing off each other all day. I understand that having a 2/3 instead of a 2/2 looks more elegant and exciting, but stalemates suck and it just means 2/2s are so much worse.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:20
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whydirt posted:Sylvan Advocate is a dumb card. It's also the reason why a 1R 3 dmg instant should exist
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Jul 5, 2016 19:24
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80s James Hetfield posted:It's also the reason why a 1R 3 dmg instant should exist Don't be ridiculous. The reason why a 1R 3 damage instant would be broken and format warping in this world of X/3s and X/4s is because
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Jul 5, 2016 19:25
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Count Bleck posted:With no downside! Wow! only if she's
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Jul 5, 2016 19:26
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80s James Hetfield posted:It's also the reason why a 1R 3 dmg instant should exist As has been pointed out, it does exist in the form of Draconic Roar.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:26
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Zoness posted:only if she's YOU HAVE MY ATTENTION. 
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Jul 5, 2016 19:28
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stinkles1112 posted:I'm tellin you guys, Dead Weight, new Lilly and this guy, curving into Mindwrack Demon, have your own Sylvan Advocates and maybe Transgress the Mind with some instant speed removal... seems pretty spicy There are now a lot of payoffs for Delirium. Whether they get there is pretty questionable. I've been playing GBu Delirium recently and even with the cards it has, it already wrecks GW Tokens because Mindwrack Demon is really loving good against that deck, but it also gets its lunch eaten by Bant Company decks. It's kind of a meta-call whether its competitive or awful. But out of all of the Tier 2 decks floating around, GB Delirium is pretty clearly getting the most new cards to play with, so it seems pretty mcmagic-y to say there's no way it could ever be good because "what if your opponent has Sylvan Advocate." Previously your payoff for Delirium was not dying to your own Mindwrack Demon and enabling Traverse the Ulvenwald (which is still the strongest card in Delirium). Now you're adding in Grim Flayer, Emrakul, sort-of Hymn to Tourach? You're starting to get payoffs that might be worth it.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:35
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whydirt posted:As has been pointed out, it does exist in the form of Draconic Roar. When was the last time Thunderbreak Regent saw play exactly? Like I could understand playing Draconic Roar if there was a reason to play Dragons but unfortunately all red has for good dragons right now is Thunderbreak Regent and Dragonlord Atarka. Not exactly what red's looking to play Edit: And Mirrorwing Dragon because that's in this set too.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:39
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Draco Roar and the Radiating Dragon could take down a tokens deck if you're somehow still alive on turn 6.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:41
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Tubgoat posted:Draco Roar and the Radiating Dragon could take down a tokens deck if you're somehow still alive on turn 6. That is not how Mirrorwing Dragon works.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:43
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Angry Grimace posted:but it also gets its lunch eaten by Bant Company decks. It's kind of a meta-call whether its competitive or awful. Makes me wonder if maindeck Languish will be good. Your Advocates and Mindwracks dodge it, they would have a really hard time coming back if you Languish and have two dudes or a dude and a Liliana left over after. Transgress is decent against Company in the main too. I'm definitely brewing on this for standard either way. I wanna use those Gitrog toads!
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Jul 5, 2016 19:45
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Count Bleck posted:That is not how Mirrorwing Dragon works. poo poo, you're right! That card is industrial sewage.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:48
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I don't know why people think Mirrorwing Dragon is going to do anything in standard when Zada, Hedron Grinder couldn't. One of them only lets you copy stuff so you can't get blown out, the other is a really lovely dragon getting released soon.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:49
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Count Bleck posted:When was the last time Thunderbreak Regent saw play exactly? Having an instant speed 2-mana answer to Advocate and having unconditional efficient burn to the face are two different issues. I personally prefer having cards with block-specific upsides and downsides than purely efficient answers, but I can understand that it's a matter of taste.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:50
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Mikujin posted:I don't know why people think Mirrorwing Dragon is going to do anything in standard when Zada, Hedron Grinder couldn't. One of them only lets you copy stuff so you can't get blown out, the other is a really lovely dragon getting released soon. Because Zada doesn't protect itself from removal and Mirrorwing does?
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Jul 5, 2016 19:51
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whydirt posted:Having an instant speed 2-mana answer to Advocate and having unconditional efficient burn to the face are two different issues. I personally prefer having cards with block-specific upsides and downsides than purely efficient answers, but I can understand that it's a matter of taste. I would be more appreciative of Draconic Roar if we actually had dragons to gain the benefit. As it stands you would never in a million years play Roar in RDW because "it kills Advocate on turn 2" and that's all it does.
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Jul 5, 2016 19:52
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A 4/5 flier that is hard to kill without getting plague winded isn't bad, it'd probably be great if there were some decent 1 drop mana dorks to ramp into it reliably on turn 3-4. Even if rattleclaws were still around, turn 3 thunderbreak into this guy would be ok, but storm breath dragon it isn't.
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