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I think the one good thing comp has changed for me is that I no longer see Grape-Colored-Tarts or Hanzos every game. I do need to track whether a Hanzo on my team is more likely to be associated with a loss or not, so far it feels like it, even with non-career Hanzo players.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:43
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I pretty much only play solo queue, as whoever we need. (Rein/Winston/Pharah/76/Lucio/Mercy) Got initially placed at 56 after going 8-2 playing mostly Lucio. Went 16-18 on the weekend, and slid to 47? How the gently caress does that work? I mean, some of those losses were playing with my friends who initially were like, 45-ish, which I guess makes sense, since my level difference clearly means I'm supposed to carry the team  but still, it feels real bad to play with your friends, win a game, get about a fifth of a level, then lose a game and lose about half to three-quarters of a level.e: also playing support is really dumb at the extremes, if your team gets steamrolled, you're probably not healing too much, and if your team steamrolls, again, youre probably not healing too much. do you gain like, a bonus to "you really suck dude, please play better" in that scenario?
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Jul 5, 2016 20:46
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I'm glad that the heal bots get less rank because I am less likely to encounter one who decides to play a character that requires you to aim on my team, handicapping us.
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Jul 5, 2016 20:56
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also on a lucio-mercy comp the mercy often actually wants to avoid doing too much out of combat healing because of how much faster her ult charges than lucio's.
Zoness fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 20:57
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flashman posted:I'm glad that the heal bots get less rank because I am less likely to encounter one who decides to play a character that requires you to aim on my team, handicapping us.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:07
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So does anyone have any actual factual information on that supports are actually for sure getting less level % than offensive characters? Also, doesn't everyone start with a pre-seeded value for their placement matches just based on what your QP mmr was like and then gives you a wide uncertainty till you get through the 10 matches (which is similar to something like Dota 2 worked) so that unless you had two people that had done the same in the exact same number of matches you'd expect them to end up different ratings at the end of it?downtimejesus posted:Went 16-18 on the weekend, and slid to 47? How the gently caress does that work? I mean, some of those losses were playing with my friends who initially were like, 45-ish, which I guess makes sense, since my level difference clearly means I'm supposed to carry the team
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Jul 5, 2016 21:08
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Nihilarian posted:yeah, gently caress them for playing what they want to play Unironically agree while there are characters in an fps game that can buoy them above their mechanical abilities simply by running in circles.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:12
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Master_Odin posted:So does anyone have any actual factual information on that supports are actually for sure getting less level % than offensive characters? anecdotal doesn't mean not factual and c9 did in fact do all their placement matches together
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Jul 5, 2016 21:12
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flashman posted:Unironically agree while there are characters in an fps game that can buoy them above their mechanical abilities simply by running in circles. sounds like you should get along just fine without a healer on your team
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Jul 5, 2016 21:14
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Any other alt-o-holics trying to collect plays of the game on every character? I know its not that exciting since most POTGs are lame, but it is something I try for while grouping with my quick play-only buddy. I've got 8 more to get - McCree and Widow will be tough as I can't aim for crap. Wish I'd gotten the cowboy pre-nerf and before everyone knew how easy it is to avoid high noon. Mei and Winston seem hardest otherwise, I very rarely see POTGs for them. My last four: Junkrat, Tracer, Reinhardt and Zarya, are just a matter of playing them enough. Junkrat is my least played since my friend plays him 90% of the time.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:16
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your placements definitely take your hidden quick play mmr into account, which will be lower for support players since they have less room to influence a game than for example a career genji player
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Jul 5, 2016 21:17
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Zoness posted:anecdotal doesn't mean not factual and c9 did in fact do all their placement matches together
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Jul 5, 2016 21:19
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im glad blizzard punished people for filling roles when playing with their friends, good system imo.Master_Odin posted:They've played every game together since the start of beta as well right? I mean if you want a twin study for overwatch ratings good luck I guess. Given how much c9 plays together I'd assume quick play mmr seed would have a lower impact but I suppose you are correct and it is possible that it would seed adam and surefour so distantly. Zoness fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 21:19
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Zoness posted:anecdotal doesn't mean not factual and c9 did in fact do all their placement matches together I mean, I watched them both solo queue as DPS and that seems like an accurate difference in mechanical skill between Greggo (their other support) and Surefour. It isn't that Greggo is bad at all, it's simply that Surefour is that good.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:21
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flashman posted:Unironically agree while there are characters in an fps game that can buoy them above their mechanical abilities simply by running in circles.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:22
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my back pages posted:I mean, I watched them both solo queue as DPS and that seems like n accurate difference in mechanical skill between Greggo and Surefour. It isn't that Greggo is bad at all, it's simple that Surefour is that good. I think that's fine but if skill rating has a stronger correlation to how well you play a dps as opposed to other roles why make the other roles essential to winning?
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Jul 5, 2016 21:24
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DolphinCop posted:your placements definitely take your hidden quick play mmr into account, which will be lower for support players since they have less room to influence a game than for example a career genji player I'm not sure why you're convinced of this, I don't think blizzard said anything of the sort and the placements I've seen all seem to be based entirely on the placement games. I played support for all of my placement games in a group with countblanc and we both ended up exactly at 58, about 8-9 SR below the DPS guys. While it's possible our "quick play MMRs" are also identical, this seems to happen really consistently
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Jul 5, 2016 21:28
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flashman posted:Unironically agree while there are characters in an fps game that can buoy them above their mechanical abilities simply by running in circles. have you ever even played lucio
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Jul 5, 2016 21:29
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Supports should get more ranking points because Blizzard's primary goal is to make sure people enjoy the game + play how Blizzard wants them to, and based on a significant amount of anecdotal experience that almost certainly means encouraging people to play support.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:29
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PaulC posted:I'm not sure why you're convinced of this, I don't think blizzard said anything of the sort and the placements I've seen all seem to be based entirely on the placement games. Jeff Kaplan literally said this is true, that's why he's convinced of it, ? mark me and find the only post here that I link to the Blizzard forms, I would but phone posting.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:30
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there should be some kind of reward / motivator for playing support because jesus christ it's like pulling teeth, and while I have a mountain of issues with their particular implementations Blizzard is right to conclude that most players won't do things without external motivation but it shouldn't be related to MMR ranking at all
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Jul 5, 2016 21:31
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honestly it sounds like another bug. i doubt it's intentional.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:31
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Zoness posted:I think that's fine but if skill rating has a stronger correlation to how well you play a dps as opposed to other roles why make the other roles essential to winning? I think supports are, in general, a bit easier to play and a lot harder to carry with. If I queued up and got a 75+ on my team, I would be a little worried if they played our support. I think it's just easier to carry a team of slovenly 60s as a DPS than it is as a healer and at high ranks that's what's important. I think the Greggo vs Surefour comparison was interesting because, despite Greggo's placing as a support, it seems to accurately correlate with that he'd have on DPS as well. Who knows though--but it definitely sucks to try to carry a lower-level team as support. 
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Jul 5, 2016 21:32
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Jeff Kaplan literally said this is true, that's why he's convinced of it, ? mark me and find the only post here that I link to the Blizzard forms, I would but phone posting. The really long post about matchmaking? That describes the MMR system but it doesn't say whether your competitive "rank placement" is influenced by quick play MMR.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:36
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I'm enjoying how much a rank number bothers some of you, lmao.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:38
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teagone posted:I'm enjoying how much a rank number bothers some of you, lmao. man you are so aloof and cool...train me, teagone, not to care about things
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Jul 5, 2016 21:40
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honestly the "not enough supports" pop-up was a great start and is surprisingly effective they just inexplicably calibrated it to one instead of two
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Jul 5, 2016 21:42
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Today I decided "gently caress it I'm just gonna play the guys I enjoy the most" and ended up playing Zenyatta on payload attack and Junkratt on payload defense. Jumped from rank 46 to 48.  I love you Zenyatta.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:43
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Efexeye posted:man you are so aloof and cool...train me, teagone, not to care about things It's not hard to be chill, especially in this game where it encourages you to be chill. The trick is to know and accept that you really aren't good enough to be MLG ESPORTS.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:44
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the argument that supports require less skill is silly. Mercy has a really solid gun you should be using as a Mercy if there isn't a good heal/boost at the moment. It does a lot of damage and requires reasonably good accuracy to use to full effect. You need better twitch-aiming skills to play Mercy to full effect than, say, Reaper. Lucio is a bit more spammy I guess. Zenyatta not needing accuracy is lol. On top of that however, all three require very good positioning because they involve a lot of line-of-sight while also being high priority targets. A good support might not be scoring headshots but they are correctly interpreting the flow of the battlefield, being where they need to be, and controlling combat with their abilities, especially their ults. Staying alive while being where you need to be requies a lot of effort as a support because everyone wants to murder you, specifically, above any other character except maybe Widowmaker. Supports are also among the squishiest characters in the game though they do have innate health regeneration which is great if they can survive being targeted. Just because they're not scoring 360 degree sweet headshots every five seconds doesn't mean they don't have skill requirements to use properly. The difference between a good Lucio and a bad Lucio is huge, if just in how they take advantage of his innate mobility.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:45
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I haven't been able to play this since launch until today. Pubbies being allergic to supports isn't surprising but I think all of them are more fun than supports in other games. Saying that I don't intend to touch competitive at the moment because a 'main' Genji bitching about me not picking a support for the fourth game in a row is tiresome enough in quick match.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:48
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Master_Odin posted:So does anyone have any actual factual information on that supports are actually for sure getting less level % than offensive characters? I play Lucio/Mercy in my pre-made stack and we all got around 55-60 rank in our placements, with all of us hovering around that rank in several matches post placement (I'm sitting on 57 atm). I believe it depends on the player tbh.
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Jul 5, 2016 21:54
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teagone posted:It's not hard to be chill, especially in this game where it encourages you to be chill. The trick is to know and accept that you really aren't good enough to be MLG ESPORTS. no one's trying to be MLG ESPORTS, just trying to understand getting seeded at 46 and then losing 14 levels over 80 games Quickplay stats for Mercy (31 hours):  Competitive Play stats for Mercy (10 hours):  ...all I'm saying is how the gently caress does that work out to a 47% winrate in quick, and a 32% winrate in competitive? (the deaths are due to double reaper absolutely murdering supports who have the only mic on their team) edit: I know I am not good boar guy fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 21:55
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That average healing done in quick play...
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Jul 5, 2016 22:32
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henkman posted:That average healing done in quick play... all my teams were so good that i didn't have many opportunities to heal them  edit: also both those sets of numbers are 90% solo queue boar guy fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jul 5, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2016 22:33
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Healing Done is a weird stat because in a lot of ways you're at the mercy of your teammates. If your team is just getting bursted down by being out of position then all the healing in the world won't save them, and if you get rolled (or roll the other team) it's really hard to keep people alive. Certain characters also just won't give you much healing to work with, and those characters tend to be very popular in quick play (Hanzo, Mei, Genji, Widow, Tracer) because they have low health and tend to not play near the group. For reference my average healing in quick play is 5,675 and my average in comp is 8,994 for mercy
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Jul 5, 2016 22:37
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Countblanc posted:Healing Done is a weird stat because in a lot of ways you're at the mercy of your teammates. If your team is just getting bursted down by being out of position then all the healing in the world won't save them, and if you get rolled (or roll the other team) it's really hard to keep people alive. Certain characters also just won't give you much healing to work with, and those characters tend to be very popular in quick play (Hanzo, Mei, Genji, Widow, Tracer) because they have low health and tend to not play near the group. Yeah I got praised by a group for amazing healing on Zenyatta one game with randos, and it baffled me because I just tossed my harmony orb around to triage while focusing on trying to headshot the bad guys. So if anything they all deserved the praise for staying together, covering each other, ducking out of fire at 10%, and not going back in until my healing balls tickled them back up to full.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:47
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i definitely do not think of the level bar as an XP bar and i am more than MORE THAN willing to admit that I am not good but you can't look at those numbers and tell me it makes any sense. A third more elims, a third more objective kills, double the healing and double the objective time. The only category I did worse in for Comp was deaths- admittedly, by a lot- but you'd think some of the others would be important, too.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:55
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bagrada posted:Yeah I got praised by a group for amazing healing on Zenyatta one game with randos, and it baffled me because I just tossed my harmony orb around to triage while focusing on trying to headshot the bad guys. So if anything they all deserved the praise for staying together, covering each other, ducking out of fire at 10%, and not going back in until my healing balls tickled them back up to full. I do the same thing when I play healers (which is admittedly rare), but what I've learned is that most average support players don't see their role as one of hyper-vigilance. Good players are constantly in triage mode instead of "I'm just gonna stay glued to this guy and if someone else in my FOV happens to need healing then OK," and the difference is obvious to your teammates because they actually get healed when they need it.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:56
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Efexeye posted:i definitely do not think of the level bar as an XP bar and i am more than MORE THAN willing to admit that I am not good but you can't look at those numbers and tell me it makes any sense. A third more elims, a third more objective kills, double the healing and double the objective time. The only category I did worse in for Comp was deaths- admittedly, by a lot- but you'd think some of the others would be important, too. Well, remember that comp games take into account several rounds. QP games are one round (or 2-3 in KoTH, which is 3-5 in comp). Your comp numbers should be higher because it's basically double the games.
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Jul 5, 2016 22:59
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